|
Crosby B. Alfred posted:The United States has at least in modern history Post World War 2 treated immigrants legal or illegal like poo poo. For a Country built on immigrants, the United States is incredibly xenophobic and largely still is to this day. I think first and foremost I'm sorry by nature of replying to a singular post any and all content in that response comes off as a singular rebuttal/attack on that post, whereas it was also a springboard to responding to the thread at large as well. You come across as worth engaging in discussion that could amount to more than arguing whether present atrocities match closely enough to historical atrocities to use a term which if anything was devised to minimize the atrocity that was being carried out then and led to far worse. The United States has always ever treated immigrants like poo poo which is pretty rich considering the mythos it teaches. The length and shittiness is of course measured by color of skin, and whether we're pretending a culture we're at war with embodies the genetic make-up of the region. Crosby B. Alfred posted:Yes, you are correct he United States in the 1960s exploited the hell out of Latin America and for anyone reading Tears of Latin American is excellent book on the topic. Essentially, the Western World (US + Europe) has given themselves to have democratic governments but not for anyone else. That's not just since the 1960s, it's the continuation of the genocide that began with the caravel and all the various European colonies, but yeah it's the same war versus the now descendants of slaves and native populations for the most part. We were absolutely meddling in that world to horrid affect before, post WW2 we simply embraced our ability to control the world. If that has and continues to mean we prop up dictators, death squads, drug trade, and immiseration seemingly means nothing to the debate over whether we have a humane border policy. Crosby B. Alfred posted:I don't agree. People are being held accountable. Leaders of various agencies are being removed along with a whole host of other changes. You are right, we should do more but Biden is not Trump. Period. Who has actually been held accountable for anything? Losing your post and going into the private sector is the norm. Accountability is an actual accounting not moving into the private sector with your new big bolded government experience. Trump did manage to bring a lot of what people worried about the DHS at its inception (pretty loving fascistic then) into full fruition. There has not been acountability, people wanna scream about 1/6, we haven't even tried to deal with the fact that not only were many capitol police letting people in, but that crowd had police theoughout it. And oh, in the meantime we're threatening Bolivia for arresting members of a coup government and treating them well. We're prioritizing deporting Haitians while propping up the latest flimsiest dictatorship we can which will almost certainly require the latest humanitarian intervention. Who's keeping count in Haiti anyway? We've been doing that there for some reason ever since gosh what did they manage and we still say they owe debt for?
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 03:05 |
|
|
# ? Jun 6, 2024 03:25 |
|
'They got fired' is not actually being held accountable for crimes against humanity. This is going to be like the Bush torturers all over again
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 03:30 |
|
There's a new donation drive thread for immigrants and refugees
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 04:08 |
|
hobotrashcanfires posted:The United States has always ever treated immigrants like poo poo which is pretty rich considering the mythos it teaches. The length and shittiness is of course measured by color of skin, and whether we're pretending a culture we're at war with embodies the genetic make-up of the region. If we look back at the 1920-1930s it was a terrible place unless you happen to have been a Wealthy White Land Owning Male in good health. That said, the United States is a crazy, insane, unique and rare multicultural experiment. In that context, it is probably one of the absolute coolest things to ever happen in the history of humanity. This no myth but I'd agree that we aren't living up to our ideals and there certainly "Parallel Americas" where one is a predominately Christian Capitalist Country largely run by wealthy white men and the other an actual multi-cultural Democracy. And remember, the United States is a young Country compared to the rest of the world. hobotrashcanfires posted:That's not just since the 1960s, it's the continuation of the genocide that began with the caravel and all the various European colonies, but yeah it's the same war versus the now descendants of slaves and native populations for the most part. We were absolutely meddling in that world to horrid affect before, post WW2 we simply embraced our ability to control the world. If that has and continues to mean we prop up dictators, death squads, drug trade, and immiseration seemingly means nothing to the debate over whether we have a humane border policy. I mean - sure the US has meddled in world affairs but prior to WW2 the United States largely isolated themselves purposefully. I would say that much of the civil instability in Africa and South America is largely due to colonialism, this will take generations to solve and I do strongly disagree with much of our foreign policy. hobotrashcanfires posted:Who has actually been held accountable for anything? Losing your post and going into the private sector is the norm. Accountability is an actual accounting not moving into the private sector with your new big bolded government experience. Trump did manage to bring a lot of what people worried about the DHS at its inception (pretty loving fascistic then) into full fruition. You cannot claim there hasn't been accountability when the FBI is regularly rounding up protestors and even investigating our own members of Congress including charges of sedition. I don't know what to tell you - our foreign policy is extremely poor but given that we have folks like the Squad - which is growing - I am much more optimistic than pessimistic.
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 04:09 |
|
Crosby B. Alfred posted:You cannot claim there hasn't been accountability when the FBI is regularly rounding up protestors and even investigating our own members of Congress including charges of sedition. What does this have to do with immigration? Also no member of Congress will be charged with sedition for their involvement in 1/6.
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 04:23 |
|
'Rounding up protestors', yeah, you sure have been. Where's Kyle Rittenhouse again? And half the Squad is already defending the practices they once denounced.
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 04:35 |
|
Crosby B. Alfred posted:If we look back at the 1920-1930s it was a terrible place unless you happen to have been a Wealthy White Land Owning Male in good health. That said, the United States is a crazy, insane, unique and rare multicultural experiment. In that context, it is probably one of the absolute coolest things to ever happen in the history of humanity. This no myth but I'd agree that we aren't living up to our ideals and there certainly "Parallel Americas" where one is a predominately Christian Capitalist Country largely run by wealthy white men and the other an actual multi-cultural Democracy. And remember, the United States is a young Country compared to the rest of the world. I get what you're saying and where you're coming from but that literally is the mythos. The crazy, insane, unique, and multicultural experiment depended on two continents being slightly behind the rest possibly only due to running north south and having vastly fewer cultivatable staple foods, falling slightly behind technologically and not outright killing from the start many who became some of histories greatest monsters. It is the utmost accident of history, biology, geography, and agriculture which set the stage for what is likely the most genocidal event in human history and if you want to be real about is still occurring in all these camps. You could also just go through one of many scattered and desolate reservations. Just imagine such fortune being relegated to some of the most undesired and unlivable places only to discover you're on a treasure trove of minerals. Now maybe it's a superfund site but hey, we're supposed to be talking about desperate people elsewhere. Crosby B. Alfred posted:I mean - sure the US has meddled in world affairs but prior to WW2 the United States largely isolated themselves purposefully. I would say that much of the civil instability in Africa and South America is largely due to colonialism, this will take generations to solve and I do strongly disagree with much of our foreign policy. No? Not in any conceivable way. Both in Africa where we could but especially everywhere south of the US we just replaced the existing colonialism at every opportunity. We invented banana republics, the people of those countries were meant to slave for our industry and if the best figurehead is some puffed up strongman absurdly festooned with medals well good enough so long as he keeps everyone producing profit. The US never isolated itself prior to WW2, we were at war constantly fighting for colonial possessions within our sphere of influence. We don't have a naval/torture base in Guantanamo, Cuba by some quirk of history. They tear up the couple thousand dollar check we send them for that "lease" every year. I asked you if you could identify any country in this hemisphere we are not actively loving with, provably, within living memory for a reason though. Immigration is a normal thing, it happens all throughout history. People however don't uproot themselves from places and move en masse without external factors. We are and have been the primary external factor ever since old European colonial powers lost their sway to us. Calling them concentration camps is frankly inadequate when we've created murderous dictators and supplied and trained death squads which have driven desperate people to come here. They not only deserve automatic asylum they deserve reparations. They're almost all fleeing to the same place that sucked every bit of profit it could. Crosby B. Alfred posted:You cannot claim there hasn't been accountability when the FBI is regularly rounding up protestors and even investigating our own members of Congress including charges of sedition. I don't know what to tell you - our foreign policy is extremely poor but given that we have folks like the Squad - which is growing - I am much more optimistic than pessimistic. Not even gonna bother much with that because no, we never dealt with police riots across the country that probably injured thousands or more over people being constantly murdered and almost never being held to account for it. So glad theyre investigating and we keep finding out how many on duty and off duty law enforcement were involved and defund the police is contentious.
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 06:23 |
|
Thank you for this.
|
# ? Apr 3, 2021 14:30 |
|
Sarcastr0 posted:Huh. I did not know that. Good stuff! Hi there, is there an email address you're willing to share I can reach you at? Would like to discuss something and you don't have PMs.
|
# ? Apr 4, 2021 02:02 |
|
Fritz the Horse posted:Hi there, is there an email address you're willing to share I can reach you at? Would like to discuss something and you don't have PMs. Color me intrigued! I just laid out the for PMs.
|
# ? Apr 4, 2021 03:21 |
|
Sarcastr0 posted:Color me intrigued! cool! I think you still need to enable PMs. Go to User Control Panel -> Edit Options and then under "Messaging and Notifications" you'll need to toggle "yes" on "Enable Private Messaging" and Submit Modifications at the bottom.
|
# ? Apr 4, 2021 03:27 |
|
https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1379511583534161925 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
# ? Apr 6, 2021 20:33 |
|
Good lord. The signal I’m getting from this is HHS is woefully understaffed to deal with the situation at the border and can’t process new hires quickly enough to fill all the need they have. Is there another way to read this? That’s all I’ve got.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2021 22:19 |
|
It looks like it's a request for current government employees to work temporarily with the ORR for the next few months. This is likely because current employees are likely to have already completed other background checks (potentially simplifying the childcare checks) and have travel cards, most of the generic government employee training and are in the system for payroll etc. In other words they can start working fast. The listing can be seen here. Among other things it mentions that if accepted you may need to relocate within 48 hours. There are basically two jobs according to the email but the listing has one sort of super-job:
If you are a current government employee who knows Spanish, has an ID card and some other requirements, you're eligible for this job and should strongly consider it.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2021 22:24 |
|
1337JiveTurkey posted:It looks like it's a request for current government employees to work temporarily with the ORR for the next few months. This is likely because current employees are likely to have already completed other background checks (potentially simplifying the childcare checks) and have travel cards, most of the generic government employee training and are in the system for payroll etc. In other words they can start working fast. Yeah, that makes sense. Skip the onboarding process bottleneck for new hires by just recruiting existing government employees to fill a temporary need. Seems... good? I think we all knew how badly they were understaffed, it’s just surprising to see it out there in the open, bat signal all lit up and whatnot.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2021 22:36 |
|
generic one posted:Good lord. Pretty much, yeah. HHS has always had a fraction of the manpower they should have, and that's been fairly consistent both on federal and state levels. Other than the downside of potentially exposing children to engineers, which admittedly is a huge liability, I'd much rather they try to source emergency staff from there than pretty much anywhere else within dhs/cbp/ice. E: removing redundant paragraph about background checks that people above me already addressed Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Apr 6, 2021 |
# ? Apr 6, 2021 22:50 |
|
generic one posted:Yeah, that makes sense. Skip the onboarding process bottleneck for new hires by just recruiting existing government employees to fill a temporary need. Seems... good? Staffing's going to be an issue as long as there's huge fluctuations in the number of people showing up. Changes in administrations is going to make that far worse because honestly you'd have to be a loving maniac to send your kid over the border as a refugee half a year ago. Now it's not good but clearly many families consider it worth a shot.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2021 23:27 |
|
And how many staff is the government basically trying to keep away from these kids now? Christ, just get all the people out of the ICE facilities, lock the staff in there and throw away the key.
|
# ? Apr 7, 2021 04:52 |
x-posting this (few days old) article from the gently caress ice thread in cspamAlgund Eenboom posted:Dead thread https://prismreports.org/2021/04/01/bidens-treatment-of-asylum-seekers-looks-a-lot-like-trumps/ As mentioned before, this is not exactly news, so I'm wondering if the Biden admin has commented on a timeframe to reduce these expulsions. Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 7, 2021 |
|
# ? Apr 7, 2021 16:12 |
|
Ruzihm posted:x-posting this (few days old) article from the gently caress ice thread in cspam To my knowledge no they have not. The Biden admin's messaging has been "stay put, apply for asylum in your home country" and they've continued expelling adults and families at the border. Unlike under Trump, unaccompanied children are now allowed through but the system is overwhelmed and cannot process them through to host families and we end up with huge overcrowding and terrible conditions for the children. My guess is the reasoning for continuing to expel adults and families under Title 42 is to avoid a situation similar to the crowding of unaccompanied minors. If we allowed the migrant adults and families through that system would be overwhelmed too and we'd have both children and adults/families crowded in camps in unacceptable conditions. I don't think it's morally/ethically right to accept unaccompanied children but expel adults and families back into unsafe conditions. The bottlenecks in both systems are different, too: We're letting all unaccompanied minors through. The bottlenecks are in matching them with host families and housing them while they're being processed through. This can be addressed with an increase in staffing and facilities. We're currently not letting any adults or families through. The bottlenecks there are the court system for hearing asylum cases and legislative caps on how many refugees are allowed in, plus facilities for housing (though adults and families could be released pending hearings too but I think we ought to be providing adequate food/shelter/medical care etc). To serve migrant adults and families we need staffing, more immigration judges, facilities, but also legislative action to increase the number of migrants granted asylum. So it doesn't seem like they're moving to reduce expulsions, no. The system is built for deterrence and expulsions, not for humanely housing and accepting migrants. If we allowed adults and families through you'd quickly have a similar situation to the crowded camps of unaccompanied minors with the added bottleneck of a limited number of asylum-seekers eventually being allowed in. Under the current system most of those adults and families would still end up expelled they'd just spend time in crowded border camps and towns in the US while they await hearings. I don't think continuing expulsions is the moral thing to do, though. It's a bit of a catch-22, do you expel them or house them in unacceptable conditions and then expel them after a hearing? As I've said repeatedly, what we need is to push a complete overhaul of the immigration system through Congress. Massively increase the number of migrants allowed in, expand facilities to humanely house them as they're processed through, expand courts to process applications, reduce deterrence and enforcement. That's what we need imo. I'm not defending the Biden admin's messaging or policies here, I'm saying they can only do so much with stopgaps available through executive action and instead really need to get comprehensive immigration reform through Congress. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 7, 2021 |
# ? Apr 7, 2021 17:34 |
|
yall seen this
|
# ? Apr 8, 2021 04:44 |
|
Sjs00 posted:yall seen this that * is doing a lot of work in a pretty narrow margin of negative incarceration after months of abuse and violations
|
# ? Apr 8, 2021 04:49 |
|
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/march-border-crossing-numbers/2021/04/07/2c252c52-97dd-11eb-8e42-3906c09073f9_story.htmlquote:Border agents took more than 172,000 into custody in March, Biden officials say Said chart: It is only April and we've had more refugees coming in than the entirety of last year, or the entirety of 2018. And we're well on our way to smash 2019's record by mid-summer.
|
# ? Apr 8, 2021 15:29 |
|
https://twitter.com/NickMiroff/status/1380245802560405511quote:With a record number of unaccompanied minors arriving at the border in the past several weeks, HHS quickly filled the 7,700 available beds in its network of permanent shelters, where the cost of caring for a child is about $290 daily and capacity has been reduced by covid protocols. Pretty crazy situation, and it looks like things will get worse before they start to get better.
|
# ? Apr 8, 2021 20:58 |
|
Thorn Wishes Talon posted:https://twitter.com/NickMiroff/status/1380245802560405511 Yes Mexico as a country will not stop producing immigrants any time soon Eisenhorn
|
# ? Apr 9, 2021 02:07 |
|
Sjs00 posted:Yes Mexico as a country will not stop producing immigrants any time soon Eisenhorn Do you... do you think that Mexico is "producing" most of these refugees?
|
# ? Apr 9, 2021 02:50 |
|
Fritz the Horse posted:Do you... do you think that Mexico is "producing" most of these refugees? Mexico is certainly where they originate from and I'm saying that the conditions aren't going to change soon . So yes I do but not nearly in the way you think . Posts like 'things will get worse before they get better' deserve derision . And so do posts by horses
|
# ? Apr 9, 2021 02:55 |
|
Sjs00 posted:Mexico is certainly where they originate from and I'm saying that the conditions aren't going to change soon . So yes I do but not nearly in the way you think . Posts like 'things will get worse before they get better' deserve derision . what do you believe Mexico is doing, in detail
|
# ? Apr 9, 2021 03:26 |
|
since the conspiracy theorist got probed and can't answer, forgive the double post. https://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1379686125195862020 Remember when Biden ran on restoring the soul of America? Feels like someone who wanted to do that would at least treat his mass deportations with a bit of dignity.
|
# ? Apr 9, 2021 03:53 |
|
Sjs00 posted:Mexico is certainly where they originate from https://www.lawfareblog.com/whos-really-crossing-us-border-and-why-theyre-coming Mostly it's Central Americans now.
|
# ? Apr 9, 2021 05:49 |
|
Biden set to accept fewest refugees of any modern president, including Trump, report saysquote:Since his days on the campaign trail, President Biden has tried to cast himself as diametrically opposed to President Donald Trump when it comes to welcoming refugees into the United States.
|
# ? Apr 12, 2021 05:05 |
|
Lester Shy posted:Biden set to accept fewest refugees of any modern president, including Trump, report says The headline is a little misleading, the full context is in the block you quoted. Biden admin announced they were going to increase the cap on refugee admissions from 15k to 125k (good, still not enough obviously) but hasn't actually signed the final paperwork for unknown reasons (bad). My guess is that the hesitation to actually finalize the increase in refugee cap is twofold: they want to wait until they have facilities and staff to be able to adequately house and process refugees in and second Biden is aware he's politically vulnerable on immigration and doesn't want to "rush" reforms and fumble. Not that those are good reasons, but they're what make most sense to me as to why they are hesitating on the final signature. In related news: https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/547660-biden-picks-vocal-trump-critics-to-laad-immigration-posts quote:President Biden on Monday nominated two vocal Trump critics to fill top immigration and border policy spots in his administration. Seems like pretty good picks to head CBP and USCIS.
|
# ? Apr 12, 2021 18:56 |
|
For those interested, the Biden administration seems to be seizing land for new border wall construction. Here is an article from the Brownsville Herald: https://myrgv.com/featured/2021/04/14/judge-grants-govt-immediate-possession-of-private-land-for-border-wall/ quote:Judge grants gov’t ‘immediate possession’ of private land for border wall So it looks like a judge ordered the land seized and when it was brought to the attention of the DOJ so far their response is I really hope Biden unfucks this situation because building new border wall on freshly seized land would be a REALLY bad look.
|
# ? Apr 15, 2021 19:02 |
|
Unfortunate this thread seems to be dead, there's been a lot of border news lately, what with the reveal that we're 'emptying the camps' by just moving people to camps run by different ghouls and all, and now this lovely case against harm reduction. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1391037448646496258 quote:The Biden team has hired a slate of immigration judges initially selected during the Trump era, angering advocates who argue the White House is already failing to deliver in its pledge to push back against the prior administration's shaping of the judiciary. Weird how Trump was a dangerous fascist threat to America's very soul but apparently these guys get their job because his DoJ wrote their names on the way out the door and we wouldn't want to be improper by just...not appointing the people the losing side wanted.
|
# ? May 8, 2021 18:39 |
|
It's unclear to me how much cause has to be shown to yank a conditional offer of federal employment. Iirc immigration judges (despite the name) are a perfectly normal justice department employee, subject to all the usual federal employment procedures and protections. My takeaway from the clickbaity article in a moderately clickbaity publication, that goes into absolutely no detail on whether Garland could feasibly pull the offers without getting sued is that it's mostly a nothingburger but Biden needs to get right on appointing actual good immigration judges. also quote:Biden’s budget calls for hiring 100 new immigration court judges — a figure many argue will hardly make a dent in a backlog of 1.3 million cases that will take an estimated four years to get through. quote:["Blah blah blah,"] Greg Chen, director of government relations for the American Immigration Lawyers Association, told The Hill by email. totally right, jeff sessions did a whole lot more than appoint judges he hoped would be bad, he also completely tied their hands as far as offering mercy. garland needs to get right on undoing that and indeed, quote:DOJ pushed back against criticism that the new judges would contribute to a pattern of rulings that favor government attorneys over immigrants, saying it “takes seriously any claims of unjustified and significant anomalies in adjudicator decision-making and takes steps to evaluate disparities.” Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 22:00 on May 8, 2021 |
# ? May 8, 2021 21:57 |
|
Why should any president be forced to continue on the appointment plans of the last administration? Who the gently caress cares about being sued? Trump never did and his reward was getting to do whatever the gently caress he wanted because these things take ages to arbitrate. The Trump list is full of ICE ghouls with no experience in immigration law, I'd argue that's inherently disqualifying anyway. I find it hard to take seriously the Biden's admin's claim of taking these issues seriously when this is who he's letting through to begin with. It's like putting a neo nazi in charge of refugees and going 'well if they get bigoted about it Ill take that very seriously'.
|
# ? May 8, 2021 22:20 |
|
Yeah it's not clear to me how these appointments work, how the Biden DOJ could withdraw the hires etc. The Hill article seems pretty ragebait-y and misses the forest for the trees, I'd like to point out-quote:Under the Trump administration, the Justice Department, which oversees the immigration court system, filled roughly two-thirds of the 520 seats on the bench, often picking those with long careers in ICE who argue in favor of deporting people. The Hill article is talking about 17 judges while apparently the Trump admin appointed more than 300 of 520 immigration judges. The problem is much, much larger than just these 17. Also, the DOJ spokesperson quoted in the article implies that they did some vetting of these 17 and are monitoring immigration judges broadly through the EOIR. I've said it multiple times itt but we really need comprehensive immigration reform. Preferably yesterday. sexpig by night posted:Trump never did and his reward was getting to do whatever the gently caress he wanted because these things take ages to arbitrate. Trump did not actually get to do whatever he wanted, far from it. He was stopped by the courts quite often. The GOP has been stacking the courts for quite a while, the Biden admin inviting lawsuits that are heard by Trump-appointed judges seems like a poor strategy.
|
# ? May 8, 2021 22:38 |
|
sexpig by night posted:Why should any president be forced to continue on the appointment plans of the last administration? Who the gently caress cares about being sued? Trump didn't care about getting sued because he didn't care about governing. He only cared about causing immense harm and suffering on his enemies and people he perceived as subhuman. Why should Biden, who got elected to put an end to all of that, proceed to govern in the exact same manner? sexpig by night posted:Trump never did and his reward was getting to do whatever the gently caress he wanted because these things take ages to arbitrate. Not really. The vast majority of his awful attempts to do whatever he wanted (such as repealing DACA) were halted by preliminary injunctions by the court system fairly quickly. That is why preliminary injunctions exist in the first place: the system recognizes that it moves slowly, and puts whatever practice is being litigated on hold while it is sorted out.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 00:12 |
|
Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Trump didn't care about getting sued because he didn't care about governing. He only cared about causing immense harm and suffering on his enemies and people he perceived as subhuman. Because, from a consequentialist viewpoint, if you go about things in the "correct" way and it results in harm then that is a moral failure.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 00:27 |
|
|
# ? Jun 6, 2024 03:25 |
|
The opposite of malice and harm isn't procedure. Trump was bad because his actions harmed people, not because he ignored decorum and proper channels.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 00:30 |