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Jabor posted:Also showing explicitly what techs actually do would be huge for people figuring the game out themselves. Like, when you're looking at an upgrade that gives "100% production", show on the tooltip what the current production multiplier of the affected things is, and what it's going to become. For that matter we could probably use an all purpose stats breakdown page like what NGU had.
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Apr 7, 2021 02:35
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I got got by labs. I set them up with Prod Beacons without double checking and they stayed at 1.25 prod/cycle, even with the beacon. Speed Beacons increase Prod for them, even though they don't have a speed stat. :feelsbadman:
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Apr 7, 2021 03:55
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It's weird that the techs have ID numbers but I can't sort by that, even though the lowered numbered techs usually do more at less cost.
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Apr 7, 2021 04:30
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I agree with a lot of the concerns raised, but I also am enjoying the game, for what it's worth. I liked Reactor / Factory idle quite a bit so this is up that ballpark.
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Apr 7, 2021 07:27
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The one thing I am curious about is that why use the time mechanic on production at all? Buildings producing "x fidgets / sec" would be easier to program and understand, and (so far?) would not have changed anything. Edit. I would also love to see more highlights, things like: This technology is researchable. There is enough resources to do this. Replacing this tile with that would lead into this resource production state. Banemaster fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 7, 2021 07:39
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To add on to potential UI and other improvements for NGU Industries: - If an item is selected from the the menu, corresponding copies should highlight on the map. Sometimes I have trouble tracking down one particular item on the map. - Maybe an item can be highlighted, or have a certain colour in the build menu when the speed is capped by upgrades, rather than having to hover over the item to see? - A way to see actual gain/losses over the last (10sec/1min/etc.). If I have one item which is limiting my production (in the red, no stockpile), it's really hard to estimate the impact down the production chain. - Muslukk Pit should show the total list of perks earned. - It's not really clear to me what relationship the offense/defense power earned by producing military units has with the offense/defense power in the combat screen, other than number goes up is better. - What does the difficulty number in the ISOPOD screen mean? - What does the 1K medal in the completion log indicate? Production per cycle over 1000? - Do achievements have any in-game impact? I am enjoying the game so far, though it doesn't feel quite like an incremental. I do like the semi-active nature of it, as well as setting up factories to reach a certain goal (unlock some land, upgrade a relic, etc).
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Apr 7, 2021 14:53
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Right now I'm just having fun idle-producing the three think juices I've unlocked, checking in maybe twice a day and spending them on research to make numbers go up faster and to produce more stuff and buy more tiles. I'm interested to see where it goes, also I like that there aren't any supply lines to worry about (yet?) like in similar games, because that would be a nightmare with how often you end up scrapping your layout. The pro tip earlier on in this thread helped me immensely btw, toggle the production gain/loss view (that should definitely be the default tbh), place a bunch of what you ultimately want first, and then put those resource gainers down until their number turns white or blue and repeat.
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Apr 7, 2021 15:25
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Toshimo posted:Aggressively. Not optimally, but aggressively. TIL you can place more than one of each beacon
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Apr 7, 2021 15:39
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I seem to be stuck on ISOPOD level 23 on NGU Industries. No matter what I type in or do it won't go higher than that. is there something I am missing to advance? Only criticism I have so far is that we go from a bland mud flat in tutorial island to an unappealing fleshworld. It would have been nice to have some visually appealing areas before jumping off the rails into the weirdness that is NGU.
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Apr 7, 2021 16:31
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Malt posted:I seem to be stuck on ISOPOD level 23 on NGU Industries. No matter what I type in or do it won't go higher than that. is there something I am missing to advance? Try moving off the tab and back; it doesn't refresh the data right away.
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Apr 7, 2021 16:35
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I'm enjoying NGU:I because it is challenging, but there are a few things I don't quite get. For now, I'll limit it to Relics. I have 6, and I got them all pretty quickly. Are these the only 6 or just the ones that dropped for me? What does the number in brackets indicate? ((15) Lv. 1 Tattered Shirt, for example) Am I supposed to be able to replace or add to these with new ones, or do I just upgrade what I've got when I can afford it? Can we highlight the combat button when you are not fighting or get killed? It's very much a set&leave, so it would be nice to have an indication that it needs a visit.
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Apr 7, 2021 16:40
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One thing I'm learning is that it pays to overproduce, even if it slows down your research production. Trying to maintain precise balance of supply/demand completely down the chain is an unrealistic proposition considering how production/speed upgrades work. All the base ores and their immediate byproducts should be in constant surplus at all times if you can help it, and if you can't your immediate goal should be getting it so that it is. Resources down the chain should also be in surplus, though that gets progressively more difficult down the line you go. Obviously space is at a premium and if you need a specific higher tier resource for buying tiles/upgrades/relics or whatnot then squeezing out enough efficiency to produce it without running dry of resources is ideal, but only for as much as you think you need and all ultimately for the goal of building your supply chain from the base onward. I guess this all sounds obvious when written out like this and is equally applicable to most other idle games that use supply chains as a core mechanic, but it feels like it can be difficult to conceptualize how to get there with this game. The UI issues and overall fiddliness of it doesn't help, but of course I expect 4G will make great strides in shoring up the act of play over time.
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Apr 7, 2021 16:48
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Super Jay Mann posted:One thing I'm learning is that it pays to overproduce, even if it slows down your research production. Trying to maintain precise balance of supply/demand completely down the chain is an unrealistic proposition considering how production/speed upgrades work. All the base ores and their immediate byproducts should be in constant surplus at all times if you can help it, and if you can't your immediate goal should be getting it so that it is. Resources down the chain should also be in surplus, though that gets progressively more difficult down the line you go. smh if you aren't slamming the Bulldozer button every time one of your ingredients goes red and starting from one pink test tube again
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Apr 7, 2021 17:15
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Sucks to get a 167m work order for carboard bars when they're still at around 360x production multiplier.
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Apr 7, 2021 17:26
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frankenbeans posted:I'm enjoying NGU:I because it is challenging, but there are a few things I don't quite get. For now, I'll limit it to Relics. The number in brackets is probably a unique identifier. Most every upgrade has a similar bracket. As you unlock new tiers, new relics will drop, for each new tier. You can see a 1 at the top above the list or relics, once you get another you can swap to the next page and see it. So they just provide passive bonuses and should be upgraded as you can. I don't think there is any kind of RNG around getting them, they seem to drop almost immediately after finishing the research. I am holding out for a Lazy ISOPOD shifter, personally. Not sure how it would work when the objective is to do the hardest fight possible, but I still miss it.
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Apr 7, 2021 17:38
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Arbetor posted:I am holding out for a Lazy ISOPOD shifter, personally. Not sure how it would work when the objective is to do the hardest fight possible, but I still miss it. Somethinggg knows the distribution used to generate the hits, so it would not be too hard to choose a floor that would guarantee 99% or 99.9% victory or whatever
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Apr 7, 2021 18:21
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Broken Cog posted:Sucks to get a 167m work order for carboard bars when they're still at around 360x production multiplier. Seriously I'm at Meat tier 1 and having to wipe everything and spam up some cardboard and glue, and then I'll need to do the same for superglue, because the producers for all three seem way out of step with the production levels for other resources. I think I like the game better than a lot of people here, it's just very much an early access game and I'm looking forward to seeing what becomes of it.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:46
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Two NGU-I tips from personal experience. Don't forget to clear the tutorial combats as soon as you can. It unlocks a powerful feature. I failed to realize I hadn't cleared it until over halfway into the second world. Pick up work orders before buying a bunch of upgrades (e.g., after overnighting). The amounts you need scale with your production at the time you pick up your work order, and the reward is essentially fixed, regardless of production level.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:47
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Pope Guilty posted:I think I like the game better than a lot of people here, it's just very much an early access game and I'm looking forward to seeing what becomes of it. Or people who are happily playing it are not the ones that come out to say it...
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Apr 7, 2021 18:53
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For what it's worth I'm also enjoying NGUI quite a bit. I find the foundation is rock solid, and the only bit that's missing is QoL. Granted, there's a lot of QoL stuff I'd like to see implemented, but I think it'll be excellent once we get there.
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Apr 7, 2021 19:00
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This might be a dumb question, but in NGU you can quickly type for example 1t to get 1,000,000,000,000 or 1m to get one million. Q does quadrillion. Is there a shortcut for quintillion?
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Apr 7, 2021 19:07
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Pope Guilty posted:This might be a dumb question, but in NGU you can quickly type for example 1t to get 1,000,000,000,000 or 1m to get one million. Q does quadrillion. Is there a shortcut for quintillion? 1e18?
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Apr 7, 2021 19:08
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Pope Guilty posted:I think I like the game better than a lot of people here, it's just very much an early access game and I'm looking forward to seeing what becomes of it. criticism and improvement suggestions doesn't equal dislike
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Apr 7, 2021 20:42
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Arbetor posted:The number in brackets is probably a unique identifier. Most every upgrade has a similar bracket. Ah, so it can go beyond a page. That helps. I found it a bit weird that I filled up the page in an hour and haven't seen anything since, but this makes sense.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:14
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Malt posted:I seem to be stuck on ISOPOD level 23 on NGU Industries. No matter what I type in or do it won't go higher than that. is there something I am missing to advance? You may have figured this out already but the ISOPOD won't let you go more than 20 levels higher than your current max level, so you'll need to raise your max in increments to get to where you want if you're making a big jump.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:15
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Aurora posted:criticism and improvement suggestions doesn't equal dislike This. We're all playing and discussing the game and aside from the few who have noped out because it's not for them (which is okay!), we seem to all be having fun! NGU was a barebones pile of no art, progress bars, and little else when it first graced this thread (or this thread before it prestiged). NGU Industries is entirely rough edges and proto-balance at this point and you can absolutely tell that's why it's early access. The content is there, at least so far, it's just really rough! I'd really like to see a reverse-smart-placement feature. Sort of how people are saying to build from the top down (which is correct because ratios just don't fuckin exist here), where you say, place 5 pink think juice down and watch the components go red. So you (whatever shortcut) and it slaps down one of everything that's red on the map. So you do that a couple times and backfill and eventually you've got a working factory with however much free space to play with once you set what you're working on. It definitely feels a little bad to unlock a new tier of stuff and try to find things to delete without killing your production to squeeze in new poo poo because wiping the whole map and redoing everything gets tedious after so many times.
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Apr 7, 2021 22:42
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I noped out on hitting T4 on tutorial island of NGU:I. Tier 3 was a nightmare of trying to generate enough metal braces so that the robot head maker would actually run instead of the sole hard drive maker stealing all the braces for itself. As gameplay, it was obviously the intended bottleneck but boy that was not loving fun to grind past. The solution was to fill the entire island with steel ore and steel generators and just leave it overnight but planning to maybe have fun 12 hours from now isn't really my cup of tea anymore. For a quick fix, I think the requirements to unlock new spaces is way, way too high. Just having more space to work with would lessen a lot of the pain involved in working with your chains while still enforcing the intended gameplay loop. As the game is now, it feels like some horribly hard puzzle game like Stephen's Sausage Roll without the dopamine hit when you finally get it right.
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Apr 7, 2021 23:34
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Merrill Grinch posted:I noped out on hitting T4 on tutorial island of NGU:I. Tier 3 was a nightmare of trying to generate enough metal braces so that the robot head maker would actually run instead of the sole hard drive maker stealing all the braces for itself. As gameplay, it was obviously the intended bottleneck but boy that was not loving fun to grind past. The solution was to fill the entire island with steel ore and steel generators and just leave it overnight but planning to maybe have fun 12 hours from now isn't really my cup of tea anymore. For Tier 3, I just made everything but the potatoes, then had another builder to make the potatoes, and alternated until I could afford the stuff to get it down to one build. I do somewhat agree that more space might be nice; it's a little frustrating to hit that level of 'whoops nevermind' when you go to build a new thing, but as others have mentioned it's not the biggest deal if some stuff is red.
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Apr 7, 2021 23:38
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Merrill Grinch posted:I noped out on hitting T4 on tutorial island of NGU:I. Tier 3 was a nightmare of trying to generate enough metal braces so that the robot head maker would actually run instead of the sole hard drive maker stealing all the braces for itself. As gameplay, it was obviously the intended bottleneck but boy that was not loving fun to grind past. The solution was to fill the entire island with steel ore and steel generators and just leave it overnight but planning to maybe have fun 12 hours from now isn't really my cup of tea anymore. The trick is actually to just research things. A new tier is generally impossible to build up in any decent amount. Bulk up production on your earlier tiers to free up space, make your new juice (or get a trickle in overnight from the ISOPOD). Then grab a shiny new +50% production or something and it becomes far easier to fit a fully positive production on the map. If you ever have problems balancing things the answer is just to research more. The real trick is hunting for poo poo you can now delete since you only need 3 of X instead of 10, and then trying to jam new crap in and still come out positive. Or very gently negative such that your stockpile will last until the next batch of research.
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Apr 7, 2021 23:42
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Yeah, I was watching the input/output numbers pretty heavily and maxxed out all the research that didn't need T3 juice. NGU:I is very Anno-like and I've spent a lot of time setting up chains in all the Anno games on tiny islands. This particular implementation of it is just not for me and it's hard to say why. Happy that other people are enjoying it, though...the Steam reviews are quite nice already!
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Apr 7, 2021 23:48
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E: Never mind
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Apr 8, 2021 00:03
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There is a really sneaky problem with the UI: by the time you go down through the layers of tech, you have absolutely no idea how much T1<thing> you actually need to run the T4 stuff you are trying to make, because there's overproduction on every component at every layer of the production tree, usually 1.2-1.5x but sometimes 5x or 10x. Since there's no slider to produce at anything other than max production the only way to reduce the error is by fiddling with beacons to try to get close (which I certainly do not have the patience to do every time I buy an upgrade). This is probably why buying upgrades, particularly T2/T3, often feels bad. If you didn't free up any tiles, all you did was increase the error in your production tree and turn numbers red. For example, I need 108 Rockets for my T4 juice. One rocket tile gives me 659 rockets (6.1x more than I actually need). Then one Decent Wiring gives me 1.5x more than I need to supply the overproduced rocket. Then I make 1.4x more Crappy Copper Wires than I need on that step. Then I end up with half a map covered in copper sinking all my tech into copper upgrades that aren't really helping me because the resource balance has tricked me into thinking I need 13x more copper than I actually did to supply the T4 Juice, which is the thing I actually care about making.
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Apr 8, 2021 04:09
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One other thing that might be really nice is having a toggle to see "buy one level of upgrade / buy ten levels of upgrade / buy entire upgrade" so I know how much I'll need to get the whole thing in one sweep
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Apr 8, 2021 04:24
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Bug: if you are using the 'show only upgrades i can afford' view, and click on your last upgrade, the tooltip doesn't go away until you unfilter and load another tooltip.
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Apr 8, 2021 04:29
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Somfin posted:One other thing that might be really nice is having a toggle to see "buy one level of upgrade / buy ten levels of upgrade / buy entire upgrade" so I know how much I'll need to get the whole thing in one sweep This would be excellent, the upgrades are definitely best when you can clean them out in one go and see the bigger numbers instantly. Alternatively, remath things so that there aren't 30 levels of a thing to buy anymore but they have the same costs so each individual level feels better, but being able to see costs for max levels of upgrade could still be handy then.
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Apr 8, 2021 04:40
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xiw posted:Bug: if you are using the 'show only upgrades i can afford' view, and click on your last upgrade, the tooltip doesn't go away until you unfilter and load another tooltip. It is a bug, and you can also clear it by mousing over anything still visible, e.g a red bar upgrade if there is one.
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Apr 8, 2021 08:52
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I know it would disrupt the grid shape but I'd really like to see Think Juice 4 (the pink one) moved to the second page so it'll be visually grouped with the items it consumes. Just leave that spot blank on page 1.
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Apr 8, 2021 15:01
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I think NGU industries might just not be for me, just the constant reworking of the maps is more effort than I'm willing to put in. I pretty much fell off of reactor idle and such for similar reasons. Seems like a neat game though and I hope it does well
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Apr 8, 2021 15:04
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I'm a weirdo that really likes replacing bits of the factory piecemeal between upgrades, and I like the overall progression mechanics, but I agree that a little more QoL could make it much, much easier to do. I have a specific idea for a tool that would help a lot, but it would probably also be an absolute pain in the rear end to actually add to the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if a tool like this wouldn't be added. Basically, I agree with everyone that the "Gain/Loss" statistic is generally more useful than "count", but I think it still sometimes struggles to answer an important question the player has all the time- "Can I get rid of a producer without going in the red on that product?". This is where I think an additional map statistic would help, which I call Additional Producers. Additional Producers would be another map statistic option alongside Count and Gain/Loss, where the main info it gives is "Can I get rid of a producer of this item?" and "Which one can I get rid of?". How I would imagine it would work would be something like this: 1) The game keeps track of the production/second of each producer on the map- it already does this to some degree to make the gain/loss counter, but most importantly it would also need to keep it separate for EACH tile. The game keeps these numbers in a list, with separate lists for each product, in order from smallest to largest producer. 2) If total Gain/time is greater than the smallest tile production number, then the "Additional Producer" statistic for that product is at least 1. As an example: We're producing metal frames to make crappy hard drives. We need 8 metal frames per second to feed these hard drive producers, and we currently have 5 metal frame producers. In order, those producers are making 3,4,4,5, and 6 metal frames per second, so we're making a total of 22 frames per second. Our "Additional Producer" Statistic for metal frames would be 3: we can safely get replace the first 3 metal frame producing tiles in the list and still have enough for the next step in the production chain. 3) When the mouse hovers over an item with an Additional Producer count of at least one, the lowest-producing tile of that type is highlighted on the map, so you don't need to check each one to see which is producing the least. You'll need this for when beacons change how much each tile is making for the same product. 4) Final products wouldn't need this statistic, assuming we never mix think juice or use army units as components for later production in the future. I think this will help players learn how strong most of the research upgrades are, as it will highlight how the factory becomes more space-efficient as production upgrades get piled upon, as well as helping free up space to fix red production numbers that can result from buying upgrades. It'll also help for cases like "I changed my map from red juice to blue, and I forgot to get rid of all this cardboard production in the corner" or "I just put a bunch of copper ore over here just to fill empty space and forgot I didn't really need them when I later needed more space". However, actually implementing it into the game and teaching players how to use this tool could be pretty hard, even if it would be really useful.
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Apr 8, 2021 15:49
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"Total Production + Gain/Loss" would be pretty straightforward for players to understand and doesn't require an implementation to try and average buildings with different beacon setups. It still leaves some work for the player but it would be a pretty good hint which types of buildings are in excess. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, part of the charm of NGU is it's a -little- obtuse and just unfriendly enough to the player to keep the joke running.
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Apr 8, 2021 16:53
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