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Stringent posted:Why? I've been trying to find a job in Japan and figure having some knowledge of Keigo would give me a leg up when job hunting, and some elements of Keigo come up in the JLPT so it'll help with that too.
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Apr 5, 2021 18:28
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BB2K posted:My gf just started her job after graduation and had to spend a whole day today learning how to properly take someone's business card, practice bowing, and how to properly address your boss. This is pretty standard induction at most medium to large companies, yeah. We had some variation of this ANA business manner training when I started as a new grad. A lot of it seems like BS but when you deal with olds or pretty much anyone above kacho class, it's pretty indispensable. Granted some people care less than others if you for example put their meishi in your meishi case rather than leave it on the table during the meeting. Or stand in the "wrong" place in the elevator. But for the people that do care, for better or worse, it definitely matters. (God help her if she deals with olds in a B2C setting) Similar situation with keigo. Plenty of gaijin would like to argue that desu/masu form is enough to get you through life here, but the gaijin card can only get you so far. Realistically you'll need keigo to be taken seriously in a lot of situations. That applies for both spoken and written. Sure, if you're a non-Asian gaijin you'll probably be forgiven for screwing some things up--even natives get keigo wrong all the time--but you need to show an effort, at least. Pretty much any business-y customer facing role needs it. And especially anything involving cold-calling or first contact. zmcnulty fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 22:49
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Think I’ll, uh, pass on working in Japan. Ever.
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Apr 6, 2021 16:35
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Pollyanna posted:Think I’ll, uh, pass on working in Japan. Ever. Try going to any business meeting in a corporation and being totally unprepared, not know how to shake hands correctly, not know who to address, not be able to introduce yourself properly, and speaking along the lines of "hey, uh, dudes, so, uh yeah, I'd like to like, talk to you and poo poo?" There's corporate culture and rituals and specific language *everywhere* and they're ridiculously important for a lot of things, you're just either used to them and they're "normal" to you so you don't even think about them, or you're not involved in them because you're not involved in that subculture. I did this stuff for my after graduation job in Japan for Japanese stuff for a week, then, a while later we went to our HQ in New York and... spent two weeks doing the same poo poo but for Western/English business culture. Japan generally emphasizes the importance a bit more and has some more specificity, but in a broad sense it's not that different and wHacKy JaPaN as some people would love to portray it.
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Apr 6, 2021 17:00
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Eh, fair enough. I just don’t wanna have to relearn it. Plus, there’s more than just business language to worry about for me. I’m sure I could learn keigo.
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Apr 6, 2021 17:26
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If you've ever had a writing emails workshop, it's going to be similar; however, because there's a noun for it in Japanese it plays into the wHaCkY jApAn~~~ thing. Yes the rules are different and there might be more or less of them, but like... oh no, they're somewhat formalized and not tucked away in some management self-help book about how to make friends and influence people!
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Apr 6, 2021 17:28
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LimburgLimbo posted:Try going to any business meeting in a corporation and being totally unprepared, not know how to shake hands correctly, not know who to address, not be able to introduce yourself properly, and speaking along the lines of "hey, uh, dudes, so, uh yeah, I'd like to like, talk to you and poo poo?" I get that you're trying to draw a cultural perspective/equivalency thing, but be real. Western business 'customs' are insanely informal from any perspective. Business norms and corporate culture is obviously vastly different and someone from Japan would find it pretty peculiar no doubt compared to their own conventions, but in terms of actual etiquette? Like what? Shaking hands? It's not like that isn't commonplace in Japan either. There are almost no formalised necessary greetings or procedures. An intern can present to a C-Suite meeting by saying "Good morning" and nobody would bat an eye. I am kind of dying to know how you spent those 2 weeks. I can only imagine they functioned like deprogramming sessions like "Yes, you can ask questions. Yes you can publically disagree with your superior."
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Apr 6, 2021 17:36
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The first time I made a telephone call at my Japanese office, after I hung up, a coworker said, “Don’t worry, we have to teach all the new Japanese employees how to talk on the phone, too.”
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Apr 6, 2021 17:58
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I pick up my work phone with a big drawn out "yello" most days. Where is that on the keigo scale?
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Apr 6, 2021 18:05
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Sweden is informal enough these days that I feel awkward just from being adressed as "sir" when dealing with international people. We expect punctuality and avoiding things like arguments, exaggerations or excessive jokes during meetings, but other than that we have very little in the way of rules compared to Japan.
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Apr 6, 2021 19:24
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Bofast posted:Sweden is informal enough these days that I feel awkward just from being adressed as "sir" when dealing with international people. We expect punctuality and avoiding things like arguments, exaggerations or excessive jokes during meetings, but other than that we have very little in the way of rules compared to Japan. in holland you straight up dont get hired if you are too stiff most of the time, i dont think ive seen anyone wear a suit outside of the banking district in amsterdam, and a few isolated companies here and there in ages. this is different from even a place as close by to the UK, but it's still codified in a way, it's still a very specific way of behaving that only appears "casual" and that you have to learn
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Apr 6, 2021 20:33
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Yeah it's not really culturally equivalent just because technically there are some things in one country and some thing in another. They're not in the same ballpark, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport Like, bowing and remaining bowed until the elevator doors close and a customer or client is out of eyeshot. What's the western equivalency of THAT poo poo?
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Apr 6, 2021 22:09
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Shibawanko posted:it it's still codified in a way, it's still a very specific way of behaving that only appears "casual" and that you have to learn Exactly; everything, even the correct level of casualness or lack thereof, is learned behavior that must be understood and measured and acted out corrected, otherwise you face consequences, which is not unique to Japan. AHH F/UGH posted:Yeah it's not really culturally equivalent just because technically there are some things in one country and some thing in another. They're not in the same ballpark, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport A perfect example; sometimes something you do makes you disliked by others due to subtle cultural nuances. In this case that something is posting while being AHH F/UGH.
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Apr 6, 2021 22:20
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Bofast posted:We expect punctuality and avoiding things like arguments, exaggerations or excessive jokes during meetings
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Apr 6, 2021 23:23
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lol at ameridrones having garbage corporate culture too excusing all this poo poo
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Apr 7, 2021 00:26
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If there wasn't a day of etiquette training the complaint would be "Ugh there are all these unstated rules. Japan is such a garbage country!"
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Apr 7, 2021 00:35
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On the other hand some stuff frowned upon outside of Japan is acceptable or at least swept under the rug. At my company, when you get married, you have to submit a form to HR saying who you got married to. There's a field on the form to input your spouse's employee number if they're also working the company. I used that field. Our company magazine even has a singles' corner, where each issue they profile one bachelor and one bachelorette, what their ideal date is and such.
zmcnulty fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 7, 2021 01:40
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Remember when there was a western equivalent of that? lmao It’s all the same stuff guys!
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Apr 7, 2021 01:55
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we live in a 社会
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Apr 7, 2021 02:07
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zmcnulty posted:On the other hand some stuff frowned upon outside of Japan is acceptable or at least swept under the rug. At my company, when you get married, you have to submit a form to HR saying who you got married to. There's a field on the form to input your spouse's employee number if they're also working the company. I used that field. Our company magazine even has a singles' corner, where each issue they profile one bachelor and one bachelorette, what their ideal date is and such. I mean, socially acceptable or not, I wouldn’t be comfortable doing this - I’m terrified of a bad breakup putting my job in jeopardy too.
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Apr 7, 2021 13:25
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high risk high return
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Apr 7, 2021 14:01
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in some regulated sectors, you have to report your immediate family's investments yeah it's weird, can be creepy, etc., but also Mr. Fix It posted:we live in a 社会
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Apr 7, 2021 14:55
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Pollyanna posted:I mean, socially acceptable or not, I wouldn’t be comfortable doing this - I’m terrified of a bad breakup putting my job in jeopardy too. It kind of falls into the same categories that nomikai behavior does -- maybe you say お疲れ様でした with a knowing smile the next day, but you're not exactly chatting in the office about Tanaka-san in sales wearing a lamp shade on his head. I don't know how it was back in the day (when big companies would do things like take people on annual ski trips, the bubble was loving wild) but here what happens is you hear absolutely nothing about work couples, and then: Lady in next department over: I'm sorry to bother you all but I have news Like five of us from department: Oh? Lady: Well, I'm leaving the company next month...  : !!!Lady: ...Because I'm getting married and going back to school... : !!!!!! Congratulations!Lady: ...And I married [dorky dude in your team]-san as well! :  I heard another story from a fellow English ALT that they only found out two teachers at a high school were dating because the woman had an extra cell-phone charging cable in her bag for the guy's type of phone. something like "hey why do you need that cable, you've got an Androi-- OHHHHH"
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Apr 7, 2021 15:27
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Phone posted:in some regulated sectors, you have to report your immediate family's investments A couple jobs ago, I had to make a full financial disclosure each year. It was more dispiriting than anything.
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Apr 7, 2021 16:50
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The financial sector is a special case cause fraud n poo poo tho.
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Apr 7, 2021 17:28
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Dunno how Japan specific this is but first day of classes at my uni today and the classroom they had me teaching in was so packed. 28 students packed into a tiny conference room for some reason. We usually have those "don't sit here" signs in between every other desk to at least try to social distance, but there were barely even enough chairs for everybody. I dunno how they can put out an official policy to social distance and always stay 1m away from each other and then throw me into a room like that. Just venting but yeah, ugh.
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Apr 8, 2021 07:31
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in japan, appearing that youre doing something is more important than actually doing it
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Apr 8, 2021 07:37
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Last year we were only required to be online for the first quarter, after which they left it up to the discretion of the instructors. So I was online all last year but this year they told us we all have to go back to teach in person, so it's a bit of a shock to me. Also all the boys are still hanging off each other even if I tell them to stop touching. I'm tired.
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Apr 8, 2021 08:17
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AHH F/UGH posted:Remember when there was a western equivalent of that? lmao It’s all the same stuff guys! I have to fill out a form like this every year in the US, but I work at a company with several million in yearly private donations and it could just be some condition some lovely person put on money, it's really hard to tell.
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Apr 8, 2021 08:54
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Rick posted:I have to fill out a form like this every year in the US, but I work at a company with several million in yearly private donations and it could just be some condition some lovely person put on money, it's really hard to tell. Financial disclosure programs usually happen after someone got busted either embezzling or taking bribes.
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Apr 8, 2021 09:11
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Ah, yeah, actually they did have someone pretty high up do a few thousand in embezzlement a couple years before I started and I basically have to keep all their files and an image of their system somewhere in perpetuity.
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Apr 8, 2021 09:26
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BB2K posted:in japan, appearing that youre doing something is more important than actually doing it I'unno, C-SPAM's way bigger on that and they don't get nearly as much poo poo for it.
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Apr 8, 2021 11:02
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BB2K posted:in japan, appearing that youre doing something is more important than actually doing it 残業 crew represent! 
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Apr 8, 2021 11:23
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BB2K posted:in japan, appearing that youre doing something is more important than actually doing it Considering this is the way I've been doing things most of my life, I'll feel right at home!
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Apr 8, 2021 14:02
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BB2K posted:in japan, appearing that youre doing something is more important than actually doing it Hey now This is also true in Korea and China.
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Apr 8, 2021 18:12
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and America
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Apr 8, 2021 20:37
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do we have any idea whats going to happen wrt the rules for getting into japan for the rest of the year/vaccine passports/restarting tourism etc? my wife's in japan now to visit her family, she has an open ticket and is thinking of extending by 2 weeks so she can hang out with them a little longer because she's afraid the rules will just get stricter at least until after the olympics, so she's worried that once she leaves she won't be able to get back in to visit them (her grandma is very old so she's mostly afraid her grandma will die on her while she's away). is this realistic or is she worried about nothing? she said that even for japanese people you now have to go into a special quarantine hotel when you get back in even if you have a negative test, and will just be refused entry without one, while the quarantine hotel was only for people who tested positive on arrival just a month ago
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Apr 9, 2021 18:18
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How's the vaccine distribution going in Japan?
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Apr 9, 2021 19:17
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They're faxing around forms about meeting to discuss a meeting to talk about perhaps having a committee to meet about thinking about vaccinations.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:21
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Sounds good! 
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Apr 9, 2021 19:56
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