(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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A few years ago I saw ads on Facebook for investment opportunities in palm oil plantations and suddenly I understood imperialism.
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Apr 8, 2021 17:14
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That article says they want to replace them with "rubber and other environmental friendly plants. " I have no idea, is there a "environmental rating" on different edible oil?
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Apr 8, 2021 17:22
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I have to imagine olive is the way to go. Ain't never heard nuthin bad about olive groves.
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Apr 8, 2021 17:24
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stephenthinkpad posted:That article says they want to replace them with "rubber and other environmental friendly plants. " it's one of those things where rubber and whatever oils they can do in the area en masse are probably also not great but palm oil is so loving useless and terrible to get even that's a step up. So yea, no gold medal for saving the environment but even if they make a fairly weak move it'd actually be a big jump.
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Apr 8, 2021 17:26
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Zedhe Khoja posted:I have to imagine olive is the way to go. Ain't never heard nuthin bad about olive groves. giant monocrops of anything are bad
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Apr 8, 2021 17:27
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https://twitter.com/rapplerdotcom/status/1380179216818442241?s=19 I also expect this to blow up over the weekend
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Apr 8, 2021 17:50
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all I can say is history is looking real over rn
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Apr 8, 2021 18:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/rapplerdotcom/status/1380179216818442241?s=19 
Dante80 has issued a correction as of 18:08 on Apr 8, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2021 18:05
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Some Guy TT posted:https://twitter.com/HerbScribner/status/1380139766893580292 Benagain posted:The Chinese Communist party is diligently working to lure billionaires into a false sense of security. Once they have controlled all billionaires they can eliminate them in one fell swoop. i mean   
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Apr 8, 2021 18:16
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i'm curious as to what the liberals taking potshots at china actually want though (i mean its obvious what they actually want but don't say, the same thing that happened to the USSR - the destruction of the communists and their economy and weakening it badly enough so that they can't seriously challenge the USA unless they submit to western hegemony). letting the capitalist beast in was the only way they could get development done and that they did it while maintaining independence and keeping billionaires under the thumb of state policy is pretty good. what are some alternative routes china could've gone down? - not open up, stay isolated from both the capitalist and socialist world, end up like north korea. the same libs would be calling for cracking them open and/or destroying them like they do for NK - open up but like the eastern bloc countries as a "liberal" "democracy". resulting in the same inequality but with oligarchs that command the state rather than vice versa, no SOEs or public control of the commanding heights, unrestricted capital flows so that international capital could tame the country at will and elites that were fully integrated into the washington consensus. - magically overnight transform a country of a billion+ poor people into a prosperous scandinavian social democracy that was fully egalitarian, had no income disparity, had all the good things and none of the bad things and nothing anyone could complain about (the critics would still make poo poo up) that said it'd be cool if more billionaires went on the pig killing lists or got proscribed
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Apr 8, 2021 18:17
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what happens to their assets when they get arrested/disappeared by the state?
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Apr 8, 2021 18:20
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i think if china tried neoliberalism we would quickly see a new Three Kingdoms period. they saw what happened to the USSR, they are not stupid. you can't keep a big empire together when your ideology is "everyone for themselves lol"
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Apr 8, 2021 18:25
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lol https://twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/1291273852387901440
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Apr 8, 2021 18:30
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She had come to Canada in 2014, a bright, confident immigrant from Houston, a small city west of the Mississippi River, in a part of the US that is tucked between Mexico, the Great Plains, and Canada. “Houston” means “Son of Hugh” in Scots; legend has it that Andrew Jackson’s settlers, running a real estate swindle, named it for a local seperatist leader. During Sabit’s childhood, the city was an underdeveloped colonial outpost in a contested region that locals called Texas. The territory had been annexed by imperial USA in the nineteenth century, but on one occasion it broke away, before Lincoln retook it, and is home to a simmering separatist movement with broad popular support. In Washington, it was called Wild West, or a Red State: an untamed borderland. Growing up in this remote part of North America, a child like Sabit, an ethnic Karankawa, could find the legacy of conquest all around her. Texas is the size of Myanmar, lying within a commuter flight of a dozen countries. Its population was originally dominated by Comanche, Wichita, and other indigenous American peoples. But, by the time Sabit was born, Houston, like other parts of Texas’s east, had dramatically changed. For decades, the hordes of ranchers, plantation slavers, oilmen, and land developers—organized loosely by the American state in close cooperation with its banks, but operating without regulation—had helped usher in millions of White American migrants, many of them former reactionary soldiers, to work on this enormous project. In over the northern Texas border, in Oklahoma province, indigenous peoples were still prevalent, but in Houston they had become a vestigial presence. -the new yorker, probably
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Apr 8, 2021 18:45
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Mr Hootington posted:The insane man at work who once told me all Muslims must be force converted to Christianity or executed has informed me that America must invade China to stop the genocide of the uighurs. mila kunis posted:i'm curious as to what the liberals taking potshots at china actually want though (i mean its obvious what they actually want but don't say, the same thing that happened to the USSR - the destruction of the communists and their economy and weakening it badly enough so that they can't seriously challenge the USA unless they submit to western hegemony). letting the capitalist beast in was the only way they could get development done and that they did it while maintaining independence and keeping billionaires under the thumb of state policy is pretty good. https://files.catbox.moe/7vp7oq.mp4 it's so strange to me, that online western left discussion tends to get so highly ideological: "is china communist or not?" but to me, it's just obvious that the answer is "yes," and i've noticed that more people are answering that question as "yes," although this is still contested, and the debate becomes about whether the chinese government has the correct strategy to build socialism or not. but then i'll see a lot of people, liberals and conservatives, say that the chinese are just "capitalists" (in an ideological sense) and that's why they're successful. i am now thinking this is more about the fact that china being "communist," or at least governed by communists attempting to build socialism, is destabilizing to a western worldview. "like, are you loving kidding me?" these are the people the capitalists in america outsourced their production to for decades? a bunch of leninists? this is the ruling party of an economy that's going to surpass the U.S. economy in size if present projections continue? that's just too loving crazy to be true. it'd be like the chestburster scene from alien or something causing a shock to what people think reality is, the shape of history, what is socialism / capitalism / america / china / etc.   but it wasn't china that was responsible for hollowing out the real economy in the U.S. and replacing it with smoke-and-mirrors finance, it was the capitalists in america who did this, and they had to do this to sustain their profits. if people realized what happened, there will be revolutions or ultranationalist revolts breaking out or something big like that (or both), like the crew of the nostromo realizing they were lied to by the weyland-yutani corporation. but that is happening, right?  i don't think it's that complicated though. the U.S. is an empire, and like other empires in history, the primary problem it has to deal with is money, and the U.S. has made a lot of money by trading with china. but the distribution of the profits have mostly gone into the pocket of the elites, not the people. so in order to divert attention from themselves, they propose another solution which is "i'm gonna build a wall and make mexico pay for it," or "don't ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country," or "join the mobile infantry and save the world" or "jews are responsible for world war I" or "chy-nah took the jobs." when the empire is expanding, it's also easier to unite everyone, the internal contradictions are more easily externalized, but when it can't expand any longer because the costs outweigh the benefits, then the internal contradictions polarize and the whole things falls apart. or maybe not. i dunno. i hope everyone's having a great week. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 20:08 on Apr 8, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2021 19:27
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https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary/status/1380226805932654603?s=19
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Apr 8, 2021 19:43
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I ain't taking potshots I want them to kill all their billionaires and then preferably all of ours. my mind is not being blown by the fact that people who understand actual power and economics are successfully running their country and doing very well off it, my mind is being blown by the fact that a surprising amount of people are alternating between talking about the inevitability of armed revolution and then point to China as a roaring successful vanguard that keeps making the right calls to cunningly fool the capitalists just this little bit longer before they actually, y'know, implement another round of wealth redistribution. like hooray mao killed a shitton of landlords back in the day. and now we have a bunch of state owned billionaires any one of whom is probably responsible for more direct suffering than the entire class of landlords killed in the drat revolution. but magically, they're still billionaires. and there are more of them every year. and also, shockingly, there are multiple family based political dynasties in China doing very well for themselves I don't give a poo poo about the US global hegemony I would like a source of hope to aim for that's not "well you're still going to be run by a bunch of autocrats but they'll be really competent ones that will only oppress you every so often and have a drastically smaller prison population"
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Apr 8, 2021 20:07
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Benagain posted:I ain't taking potshots I want them to kill all their billionaires and then preferably all of ours ... like hooray mao killed a shitton of landlords back in the day ... and now we have a bunch of state owned billionaires any one of whom is probably responsible for more direct suffering than the entire class of landlords killed in the drat revolution. but magically, they're still billionaires. and there are more of them every year.
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Apr 8, 2021 20:18
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Benagain posted:a drastically smaller prison population bad news on that front
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Apr 8, 2021 20:19
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the bad guys still win in the end
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Apr 8, 2021 20:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/rapplerdotcom/status/1380179216818442241?s=19 whew glad they clarified that PLA Navy ships are armed and with missiles too!!
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Apr 8, 2021 20:25
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Benagain posted:I don't give a poo poo about the US global hegemony I would like a source of hope to aim for that's not "well you're still going to be run by a bunch of autocrats but they'll be really competent ones that will only oppress you every so often and have a drastically smaller prison population" So how does this all happen with the US completely in charge again? It isn’t really about the US but I just don’t get the logic. Also yeah there isn’t calvary about to crest the hill, the earth’s climate is going to be screwed whomever is going to be charge and humans aren’t suddenly going to chsnge. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 20:45 on Apr 8, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2021 20:40
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I hate that they are too cheap to send a drone over to capture some video of the chinese naval ship. Even if you lost $1000 drone in the high sea you should still get some low rec video on your phone. If the drone gets shot down it's even better.
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Apr 8, 2021 20:43
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Ardennes posted:So how does this all happen with the US completely in charge again? It isn’t really about the US but I just don’t get the logic. it doesn't, the us hegemony should be destroyed. glad we're on the same page with that one.
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Apr 8, 2021 20:54
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Ardennes posted:Also yeah there isn’t calvary about to crest the hill, the earth’s climate is going to be screwed whomever is going to be charge and humans aren’t suddenly going to chsnge. humans can change pretty rapidly if they're given a realistic and meaningful alternative, it's happened throughout history. we don't have it one the moment and it doesn't look like any will be on offer soon enough to make a difference
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Apr 8, 2021 21:10
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Benagain posted:it doesn't, the us hegemony should be destroyed. glad we're on the same page with that one. Honestly, I don't think the PRC is going to lead the world into Communism, maybe it push some type of state-centric social democracy, but the issue is still a world without competition. As far as billionaires, the PRC needs a significant degree of capitalist accumulation in order to be competitive at this point, maybe not the degree it has turned out to be but I actually don't really see that the PRC had a good choice besides Dengism. Obviously there are "lists" of billionaires who challenge the state and there has been efforts to clamp down on tax evasion, but there will still be more than plenty out there. indigi posted:humans can change pretty rapidly if they're given a realistic and meaningful alternative, it's happened throughout history. we don't have it one the moment and it doesn't look like any will be on offer soon enough to make a difference I disagree, everything is about ebb and flow and thesis-antithesis-synthesis. The French Revolution eventually became the Napoleon model and even then that model was crushed, but Europe was still changed by the events of the preceding years. Humans didn't change, but European society of the late 18th century couldn't continue on in the same way (1830/1848/1870 etc). History doesn't happen at once and in this case, I don't think the PRC will lead to the promise-land, but perhaps it will be a very necessary step in a moderately different more state-centric direction. That said, I absolutely think with the coming catastrophe of climate change that some type of competition is necessary even if both systems have a bunch of billionaires. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 21:22 on Apr 8, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2021 21:15
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Benagain posted:I ain't taking potshots I want them to kill all their billionaires and then preferably all of ours. you misunderstand the task of socialism, it isn’t waiting for someone to come along and beat up your bullies for you, it is learning how to band together and stick up for yourself so you are no longer bullied in the first place.
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Apr 8, 2021 21:21
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crossposting for everyone itt who isn't a dumbass like me and doesn't read the D&D thread alongside this one new Re-Education just dropped on the events in Xinjiang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BChTyHFqcV8 since the author is an ancom, this video will undoubtedly piss off everyone but the anarchists itt, but I found it pretty balanced and good on the whole, and well worth an hour of your time
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Apr 8, 2021 23:14
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Venomous posted:this video will undoubtedly piss off everyone but the anarchists itt,  i don't know why people read D&D willingly
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Apr 9, 2021 00:06
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Venomous posted:crossposting for everyone itt who isn't a dumbass like me and doesn't read the D&D thread alongside this one can you post some bullet points
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Apr 9, 2021 00:29
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Love all these deep dives that need to exist because nobody knows whats going on and all information related is bullshit.
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Apr 9, 2021 00:30
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I'm sure a few more hours long YouTube videos will get us to the bottom of the truth in Xinjiang.
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Apr 9, 2021 00:51
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Lostconfused posted:Love all these deep dives that need to exist because nobody knows whats going on and all information related is bullshit. easier just to say gently caress that nerd poo poo, death to america, and trust the chinese working class can handle themselves imo
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Apr 9, 2021 00:53
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Truga posted:nazi vs nazi wars own, just hope they don't murder too many civilians doing it <Narrator Voice> quote:at least 3,077 civilians have been killed and more than 7,000 injured since the war began
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Apr 9, 2021 00:58
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mila kunis posted:i mean "park it in a country where the rule of law would protect their assets"
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Apr 9, 2021 01:24
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indigi posted:can you post some bullet points Ugh, I don't really think anyone in this thread would get too much from that video. His two primary sources are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Cables and some presentation from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dru_C._Gladney He spends a lot of time saying China is exactly like America (USA/Canada), and that's why it's believable. He believes it's a cultural genocide and accuses China of Han chauvinism. You'd probably agree with that, since his arguments echo the ones that were in that Indian marxists translation of the party line on the camps. Lots of indulging in the anarchist cliches of "all governments are the same and bad" "soviet russia was authoritarian and bad" "China is just doing to exploit labor" I dunno, I guess it's not the worst video but hardly anything new or conclusive.
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Apr 9, 2021 01:44
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Lostconfused posted:"China is just doing to exploit labor" this seems to be a purpose at odds with them doing a genocide. there does seem to be a labor component to what's happening but I don't see how cultural genocide gets you there really
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Apr 9, 2021 01:54
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I feel like the only resolution is everyone needs to take a trip to Xinjiang.
Ardennes has issued a correction as of 02:35 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 02:00
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if only all these guys got together, we could finally learn the truth about Xinjiang  
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Apr 9, 2021 02:01
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Atrocious Joe posted:if only all these guys got together, we could finally learn the truth about Xinjiang this is ad hom, or whataboutism. not sure which but its hosed up
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Apr 9, 2021 02:13
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