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tsob posted:It's not a point I particularly like then, personally. The same way I hated the revelation at the end of Batman Beyond that Terry was Bruce's genetic progeny, because only someone of Bruce's genetics could be Batman. The entire point to me is that anyone could be Cap/Batman under the right conditions, not that it's basically only one person who could ever be them because of something unique to them. Cap being an ideal doesn't mean much if others can't also live up to that ideal. Sam might (and hopefully will) by the end of the show or at least by the end of his time in the MCU, but if it's just "well he can't be Steve, but he can be close with someone else's help to make up for his own failings" then I can't say as I like what they're going for. The whole thing with Sam not hesitating when Zemo asked him if he wanted the serum is his "I just don't like bullies" moment. He's pure of heart. And the government's absolutely taking the shield away from Walker. It was mostly about PR and him murdering a guy with the shield on camera is a bad look.
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Apr 9, 2021 21:42
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I really liked how Walker's downfall theme seems to be a reprise of the main theme from Civil War. I'm glad the "MCU has bad soundtracks" meme is getting buried. But most of them do. Jackman (and winter solider) are the best they’ve produced. Jackman scoring this is why it’s so good. Minus the main avengers theme of course.
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Apr 9, 2021 21:59
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stev posted:
I don't see this problem. Karli and Walker are both on very similar paths, both starting with good, if not at least a bit naive, intentions. They have arcs are clearly supposed to be mirrors of each other. The starting places and surface characteristics are different - the all American military hero, the lefty protestor - but I think the show isn't hiding from the fact that both characters flaw isn't really anything to do with where they started, but rather that they've both now taken things way, way, waaaaaayyy too far. It's classic tragedy writing, both characters hurtling at the same speed down a road to hell paved with good intentions. And now they both have a murder of someone close to the other as another step down those roads. Their big arc beats for both characters are all too closely aligned for that not to be a deliberate writers choice, which means they know what they're doing with Karli.
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Apr 9, 2021 22:21
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It’s super-soldier serum not super-activist serum
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Apr 9, 2021 22:23
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The only person who can hold the mantle of Captain America is the person who distrusts and hates America like the MCU version of Steve Rogers who always seemed more Nomad than Cap in his run.
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Apr 9, 2021 22:55
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Sir DonkeyPunch posted:It’s super-soldier serum not super-activist serum Soldiers are just better armed activists. You really wouldn't want a passivist soldier, would you?
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Apr 9, 2021 22:57
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"Think of how many lives we could have saved with the serum" *Walker agrees, takes serum* *dude immediately dies*
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Apr 9, 2021 23:14
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Kaedric posted:"Think of how many lives we could have saved with the serum" I mean it's the guy who didn't take the serum who died.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:25
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Everyone posted:Soldiers are just better armed activists. You really wouldn't want a passivist soldier, would you? I mean, maybe. That's essentially just a security guard, but a passive soldier sounds like it might be nicer than an active one in a lot of situations, honestly.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:25
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If everyone is right and they are essentially setting up Sam to be the next Captain America, then will he give up the Wing Suit and just be a guy with a shield since he won't have the serum? If they make a new Cap movie with him as the star, seems like they won't have much room to do the crazy stunts or take on Red Skull/Thanos if the main character is just a regular guy.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:39
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The whole theme of this series seems to be that there's no replacing Captain America. You have a handful of characters that fill the physical, ideological, moral, or institutional roles but no one is the complete package and as Zemo points out, no one will ever be.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:45
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If everyone is right and they are essentially setting up Sam to be the next Captain America, then will he give up the Wing Suit and just be a guy with a shield since he won't have the serum? If they make a new Cap movie with him as the star, seems like they won't have much room to do the crazy stunts or take on Red Skull/Thanos if the main character is just a regular guy. He’ll have the wings and the shield.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:He’ll have the wings and the shield. Are there any designs that integrate the two well? It always looks awkward to me in any of the ones I've seen.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:00
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Man, I wish this was 8 or 9 episodes rather than 6.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:01
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If everyone is right and they are essentially setting up Sam to be the next Captain America, then will he give up the Wing Suit and just be a guy with a shield since he won't have the serum? If they make a new Cap movie with him as the star, seems like they won't have much room to do the crazy stunts or take on Red Skull/Thanos if the main character is just a regular guy. In the comics, both Bucky and Sam have taken up the mantle of Captain America, so source material wise, that’s up in the air. When Sam was Cap, he continued to use his wings. Though, it’d be hilarious if Sam offered Bucky the wings on the condition he calls himself White Falcon.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:05
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Paint Bucky’s robot arm in the shield color scheme and pattern.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:06
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bentacos posted:I'm beginning to think this John Walker guy was not a good choice for Captain America. Conversely, I'm thinking he's actually the perfect choice to represent America. That final shot is basically AMERICA.jpg for all to see. Seriously though, what a fantastic episode. Props to Wyatt Russell for how he's nailing Walker both as an tremendous shithead yet oddly relatable guy gone off the rails you can sort of empathise with. And please give Daniel Bruhl a Thunderbolts series tomorrow, he's just a delight to watch, his Zemo is wonderful. Morrow posted:The whole theme of this series seems to be that there's no replacing Captain America. You have a handful of characters that fill the physical, ideological, moral, or institutional roles but no one is the complete package and as Zemo points out, no one will ever be. This is a really good point but I still can't help but root for Sam to pull it off.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:08
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tsob posted:Are there any designs that integrate the two well? It always looks awkward to me in any of the ones I've seen. Ehhhh it’s not too bad.   It’s hard to judge because it’s a toy with bright paint apps, but in terms of design I wish it was a little more “tactical” like Steve’s various suits. Not a fan of the big chunky boots either, but it’s very in-line with Sam’s newer Falcon suit in this show.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:11
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Ehhhh it’s not too bad. What is going on with the Winter Soldier costume on the right?
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Apr 10, 2021 00:15
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Ehhhh it’s not too bad. I like the color scheme on the wings, but the shield still seems so weird in that picture. Maybe it's the asynchronous element it adds, and it'll come off better in motion, but at the same time, Sam is already using the wings as impromptu shields, using them to hit people etc. so the shield seems kind of redundant, beyond the fact he can throw it. Which I know is a big part of the entire fighting style of Cap, but it just seems like Sam works so well without it now that it's a shame to ruin that aesthetic and take away from his own persona as Falcon to put him in someone else's shadow. I think the twin shields Steve had in Infinity War would probably suit that look more, both because they'd have a symmetry and because they'd be smaller and integrate better in to his fighting style as Falcon. They're not the iconic shield though and can't be used to bounce around the place either, so that's out.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:24
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Shield can't do anything positive to his aerodynamics
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Apr 10, 2021 00:28
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:What is going on with the Winter Soldier costume on the right? That’s one of Bucky’s outfits in the comics. That line just does both MCU and comic stuff.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:32
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Morrow posted:The whole theme of this series seems to be that there's no replacing Captain America. You have a handful of characters that fill the physical, ideological, moral, or institutional roles but no one is the complete package and as Zemo points out, no one will ever be. I'd agree that's where the show seems to be leaning right now, but there's no way that we'll end in two episodes time with 'Zemo is right'. This is about the path Sam takes to taking up the Shield. Zemo is right though. e: I do wonder if they've literally escape hatched him out of the show for good this episode so that everyone can forget his ideology exists.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:50
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thebardyspoon posted:Eh, there's a distance in blowing people up without being there afterward vs punching a guy so hard into a pillar that it causes enough internal damage for him to die, even if that happened as you were intending to stab his buddy. Especially when you consider that the Flagsmashers could already have killed Lamar if they wanted to. Instead they tied him up and left him out of the way. It's completely clear that they wanted zero collateral damage this time.
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Apr 10, 2021 01:20
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Falcon should stay falcon and they should just make Bucky the new cap and give him the shield. I loved “what is with all the knives?” and I am happy that we got to see a little bit of how Bucky’s arm is integrated into his shoulders because I was super curious about it. I thought how annoyed he was when he reinstalled it was perfect. Sebastian Stan has not stopped impressing me here I love his performance.
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Apr 10, 2021 01:31
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I've always said, the best Captain America's are the ones that represent what America should be, the one that they like to think they are. The good that they have the potential to do in the world, Walker though is how America is, big swinging dick, not caring how much damage they do because they think that as long as you can justify it to be "for America".
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Apr 10, 2021 01:36
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Bust Rodd posted:I thought how annoyed he was when he reinstalled it was perfect. Sebastian Stan has not stopped impressing me here I love his performance. He gives the little arm cock he did when Natasha shocked his arm 
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Apr 10, 2021 01:46
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The show has been all over the place for me. I enjoyed this episode, after being ready to quit the show last episode.
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Apr 10, 2021 01:56
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twistedmentat posted:I love "the Dora Milaje have jurisdiction where ever they please". 
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Apr 10, 2021 02:12
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Actually, something I haven't seen discussed yet: Ayo says something to Bucky in Wakandan just before she leaves, does anyone have any idea what she says? Even the subtitles just render it as "In Wakandan" or something similar. Which, I think is based of Xhosa or some other African languages, so maybe someone knows what she said. I'd presume she's admonishing him in some way, but I wonder if that bridge is completely burnt now because of his use of Zemo and resistance to them or if there's still some sentiment left there that could allow him to repair that relationship?
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Apr 10, 2021 02:15
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ghostwritingduck posted:The show has been all over the place for me. I enjoyed this episode, after being ready to quit the show last episode. Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s also similar to what Erskine tells Steve the night before the procedure. Also everyone pondering John, the serum, Lamar/Zemo's thoughts on it, etc. needs to rewatch this scene now because it's the definitive thesis on Super Soldiers and Steve in the MCU.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:18
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I feel like I'm expecting a bit of a time skip next week, with the world now reacting to Walker's very public extrajudicial killing. Maybe Sam has gone back to Louisiana, Bucky to Wakanda, Zemo wherever he is now. A lull before the storm. I'd like Sam to check in on Isaiah too, maybe come to him for more information and advice. Anyway, this episode that's one hell of a wham shot to end on. mind the walrus posted:gently caress Stanley Tucci was so good in First Avenger. He really anchors the middle of Act I in a huge way and nobody seems to give him the props he deserves. He really is. He's got such heart and it shines through. Plus the 'what am I doing, you have a procedure tomorrow' comedy bit is great.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:19
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Yeah I knew they had to go with John going unhinged but I really didn't expect them to go with that in-full. Also really love the smart writing detail of not having John have taken some version of serum before the episode and still showing him ramping up and getting more unhinged. The writing has gone a really good job texturing this character.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:21
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I get very excited about fighting styles in these movies and is anyone else just loving the way Sam combines kick boxing with his lower body and using his wings like gigantic metal biceps to do wrestling moves? The clothes-line takedown towards the end had me hootin and hollerin I also love that Sam is seemingly not scared of anything and will go toe to toe with a super soldier without batting an eyelash. He rips
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Apr 10, 2021 02:31
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You can talk about Walker being the bad guy all you want, but that girl just murdered an American in front of them and all Sam and Bucky did was stare at her while she ran away.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:38
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It's crazy how good this show is about positioning it's themes. Acting is great, script is great and narrative is cohesive. People here hit on some good onesSTAC Goat posted:The fact Sam is also the only person actually trying to resolve this situation peacefully and not see Karli as evil just hammers home that Steve was right. Yeah, they are structuring the "Steve was right about Sam" theme well. I also am fairly certain that the shield is gone after this season. That final shot wasn't only a great comic-booky shot, it was a good metaphor for how the symbol of Captain America is stained. I think If Anything, Sam will carry on Isaiah's legacy[/spoiler] double negative posted:Yeah, that was good poo poo. Walker's shellshocked "....They weren't even super-soldiers." Walker untrained compared to Bucky, undisciplined compared to the Dora Milaje, and uncaring compared to Sam. Really great job contrasting him to the others. Also, I can't stress this enough, but this episode was the one that 100% the correct choice to portray Walker, his facial expressions and delivery really sell the character, his struggles, and make you hate hi, pity him, and sympathize with him all at once. Lastly, I love they are showing that Sam didn't fail by giving up the shield. He didn't think he could live up to the image, so he gave it back. Bucky caught the shield and could have taken it in one episode, but gave it back because he realized the mission was more important. Okoye had the shield and could have taken it from Walker, but they gave it back. and what did Walker do when he had it back? He brutally murdered one of the pacifist Flagsmashers. In a way, everyone made a mistake by giving Walker that shield mind the walrus posted:Yeah I knew they had to go with John going unhinged but I really didn't expect them to go with that in-full. Yup
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Apr 10, 2021 03:14
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I totally expect the series to end at this point with Walker surrendering to Sam and Bucky, and then Zemo pops in to shoot Walker dead. It neatly ties up the end of another super soldier, and means walker doesnt need to exist in further stuff
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Apr 10, 2021 03:15
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KittyEmpress posted:I totally expect the series to end at this point with Walker surrendering to Sam and Bucky, and then Zemo pops in to shoot Walker dead. I don't think he's surrendering to anyone at this point, but I do feel obviously his character arc ends in death
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Apr 10, 2021 03:17
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KittyEmpress posted:I totally expect the series to end at this point with Walker surrendering to Sam and Bucky, and then Zemo pops in to shoot Walker dead. It would be funny if they pulled an End of Civil War/The Death of Captain America with Walker after all the theorizing done before Cap 3's release.
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Apr 10, 2021 03:19
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Anyone who thinks Walker is going to face any kind of punishment is dumb. He is going to be lauded by the news as a hero who killed a known terrorist who had just murdered an American. The flagsmasher who was summarily executed will have his reputation dragged through the mud. The news cycle will focus on the bombing he was involved in, the thefts of medicine, the bank robbery, and work as hard as possible to show him as a thug with no good points. They will dig up any little detail they can to show that John was in the right for killing this man begging for his life. He will at most get a slap on the wrist, and then secretly be applauded for becoming a super soldier, if he reveals it at all. text editor posted:I don't think he's surrendering to anyone at this point, but I do feel obviously his character arc ends in death I meant surrendering in more of a 'has his face beaten in' form, but they refuse to pull the trigger. For obvious reasons.
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Apr 10, 2021 03:32
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