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Cugel the Clever posted:Ha, I was quite young still when this aired, but I recall having a similar reaction. It jarred me into a "wait, the Simpsons can be... bad?" realization that tree following seasons only reinforced. Unfortunately, the rest of my family never had the same and I'm likely to be subjected to an episode from the later seasons whenever I visit. Simpsons was popular when I was a kid, but South Park got good and Family Guy came out around the time the Simpsons started sucking (e.g. 1999ish), and frankly I forgot the Simpsons existed for ~15 years until I started running into Simpsons memes online and young people who were inexplicably Simpsons fans even though the show had been bad almost their entire lifetimes.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:14
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What's a bit weird is that the Mike Scully-run episodes were the first real downturn in quality, but he's actually credited with writing one of my favourite episodes (Marge Be Not Proud), and I've recently been enjoying Parks and Recreation, which I know he was heavily involved with. Hasn't Swartzwelder been credited with some stinkers over the years too? It feels like you can't really blame individuals (give or take an Al Jean) because the talent is clearly there, it's just that the whole culture of the show is out of whack.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:30
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Hedgehog Pie posted:What's a bit weird is that the Mike Scully-run episodes were the first real downturn in quality, but he's actually credited with writing one of my favourite episodes (Marge Be Not Proud), and I've recently been enjoying Parks and Recreation, which I know he was heavily involved with. There's a difference between writing a show and running a show. At the end of the day, Scully took the show in a direction that didn't work. It doesn't mean he's not a good writer or funny, it just means he's not a good show runner. Why the show went down is hard to say. I think a big problem is that the show went too far into the fantastic and started telling stories that were too improbable. The problems the family faced were no longer grounded in reality. Earlier seasons did some weird things, but the stories were grounded somewhat. But during that era, it just didn't know where to go. There's definitely good writing and good moments. Another thing that happened is the zeitgeist started to change. And where once the Simpsons was the perfect commentary for the time, it felt like they were trying hard to stay relevant. And so they do an internet episode not because they understand it, but because it's big and the Simpsons should make fun of the internet!
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Apr 9, 2021 14:23
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Always remember: this is all of us in this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQH2rmQ5-vk
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Apr 9, 2021 14:28
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I'm not sure I'd agree that it's tied up with them moving away from a realistic, down-to-earth show to one that's completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots, or whatever. Some of the golden era's best and most memorable episodes are built on totally zany plots. Homer going to space? loving gold. And that even had celeb cameos. Which were some of the best parts. I think it's more just that they stopped working so hard and so diligently at being funny. Once I found myself not thinking back over an episode and giggling again at all the things that had made me burst out laughing in the moment, it stopped being special. Success just made them complacent, and then there was no getting that energy back because why bother if the paychecks and renewals keep coming?
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Apr 9, 2021 14:30
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I think the shift towards the more fantastical represented a change in the shows and its tone. I think the examples we can think of where it worked were episodes that weren't the norm and worked because Homer was still an every-man. It also worked because the tone of the show was always a little off the beaten path, so it's not impossible to do. But after Homer becomes a monorail driver, you have him go to college and deal with the temptation to cheat on his wife. These are relatable stories. But at some point, Homer is this guy hob-knobbing with celebrities, starting businesses that get the ire of Bill Gates, and every week getting into some crazy new hijinx, and at some point, the deviations become the norm. Astronaut Homer is funny when you take normal everyday Homer and shoot him into space, but when its Homer, the guy who constantly interacts with celebrities, it feels different. All of this is a long-winded way of saying tone is hard. When the show started to slip, it was because they couldn't manage that tone they created anymore - a world that was very warped with characters who were equally warped but still relatable. It's a hard act. It reminds me of Newsradio. The first four seasons are some of the best television out there, but season 5 sucks. And one of the things that happened was that in season 5, the show lost the ability to balance its very silly side and just got goofy and ridiculous. That wasn't the sole thing. The death of Phil Hartman and the impact that had on the cast probably was a bigger factor, and the stuff happening with three production of the show and the tensions with the network didn't help either. But what it lead to was a show that just went too far into the ridiculous.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:10
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Hedgehog Pie posted:What's a bit weird is that the Mike Scully-run episodes were the first real downturn in quality, but he's actually credited with writing one of my favourite episodes (Marge Be Not Proud), and I've recently been enjoying Parks and Recreation, which I know he was heavily involved with. I mean, look at Arrested Development. The first three seasons were pinnacles of great television with razor-sharp writing, hilarious jokes, and elaborate call-backs and call-forwards. Then a lot of the same people did [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_Down,_Shut_Up_(2009_TV_series)"]Shut Up, Sit Down[/url], which was awful. And the two seasons of Arrested Development they made for Netflix were mediocre at best. Sometimes you just can't recapture the magic.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:10
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It's also worth noting that Seasons 13-16ish are just dreadful, well beyond what some of the later seasons would be. Part of me wants to blame this on Al Jean, but I don't think it's that simple either. It think that Al Jean was basically just brought in to be a caretaker for the show, and he didn't basically bring a whole lot of his own signature to the show. As such the quality of the Simpsons under his tenure has entirely been on the writers room. I just think Scully assembled a really bad writers room, and Al Jean just sort of ran with it. It's also worth noting that in say season 18 through like the mid twenties, the Simpsons actually improved. It wasn't good again, but a lot of it was just bland and inoffensive. The last 7 or so years have been exceedingly bad though, and I can't really watch modern Simpsons. Every time I try it is just pain. Even the Futurama crossover was kind of just meh.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:10
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I don't think wacky premises are any cause of the decline. Wacky premises work fine. Take all the wackiest episodes of the first eight seasons, put them all in a row and show them to someone who's not seen the Simpsons before and they'll have a great time with some hilarious comedy. I think if there's any correlation it's that as the writing room became less productive and witty they leaned more on wacky premises to form the basis of plots. Grounded, lifelike comedy isn't inherently funnier, but it shows a lot more if you're bad at it because at least a zany premise can hold attention without actual jokes. I guess I'm saying they're a symptom of the changing minds behind the show more than anything.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:28
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I cast my bid for the way it tells jokes being bad now. It's much too slow, much sloppier and far less trusting of its audience.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:01
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Sometimes I see golden era clips where Homer is praising and defending TV, and I feel like it's finally become totally outdated. I get that he's a moron but broadcast TV is just so insanely bad and basically a dying medium these days, it feels quaint. Even now the show itself talks about it with that streaming episode.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:02
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AHH F/UGH posted:Sometimes I see golden era clips where Homer is praising and defending TV, and I feel like it's finally become totally outdated. I get that he's a moron but broadcast TV is just so insanely bad and basically a dying medium these days, it feels quaint. Even now the show itself talks about it with that streaming episode. The joke was always that broadcast TV is awful and for idiots. It would be outdated if TV had gotten better. If anything, it's just as apt now as it was back then.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:08
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The only reason the show got bad was because it stopped being funny. That's it. You could argue the anti-SJW stuff is a reason too, but the show had been bad for years by the time it really started with that. Everything else is secondary.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:27
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What’s weird perhaps is that it became a phenomenon in its first season without being terrifically funny, at least not the way it was later. The jokes tended to be a lot more esoteric and involved than the rapid-fire gags that came along later. And there was more slow, contemplative stuff in between. Some of the Simpsons mania in the first few years was that it seemed to keep getting better and better.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:33
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It's funny how, in art, the sum is very often unequal to its parts. Look at any "supergroup" band. They usually can't help but be "pretty good" because of their raw skill, but they're almost never nearly as good as the best work of any individual member. Take the Traveling Wilburys. On paper, you've got the guy who wrote "Only the Lonely", the Beatle who wrote "Something", a person who wrote "Like a Rolling Stone", another who wrote "Refugee", and someone who wrote "Can't Get It Out of My Head". And yet, together, the best they could do is, "Handle With Care"? "End of the Line"? Or go watch the documentary about 'The Dana Carvey Show'. Here you have a dozen of the people who would define comedy for the next 20 years all working together on one show, and it loving bombed HARD. Legendarily hard. Bombed so hard that it's bombing is still worth talking about 25 years later hard. If I were running the Simpsons, I would do the final season as an anthology produced and written by different artists and creators who've been inspired by the Simpsons. Just go hogwild. Imagined fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 18:04
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Data Graham posted:I'm not sure I'd agree that it's tied up with them moving away from a realistic, down-to-earth show to one that's completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots, or whatever. Some of the golden era's best and most memorable episodes are built on totally zany plots. Homer going to space? loving gold. And that even had celeb cameos. Which were some of the best parts. I can't believe they got former president James Taylor for that episode
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Apr 9, 2021 18:21
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Imagined posted:It's funny how, in art, the sum is very often unequal to its parts. Look at any "supergroup" band. They usually can't help but be "pretty good" because of their raw skill, but they're almost never nearly as good as the best work of any individual member. Take the Traveling Wilburys. On paper, you've got the guy who wrote "Only the Lonely", the Beatle who wrote "Something", a person who wrote "Like a Rolling Stone", another who wrote "Refugee", and someone who wrote "Can't Get It Out of My Head". And yet, together, the best they could do is, "Handle With Care"? "End of the Line"? Whoa, this is the Simpsons mock thread. The Bad Opinions thread is over there,
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Apr 9, 2021 18:25
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Imagined posted:Or go watch the documentary about 'The Dana Carvey Show'. Here you have a dozen of the people who would define comedy for the next 20 years all working together on one show, and it loving bombed HARD. Legendarily hard. Bombed so hard that it's bombing is still worth talking about 25 years later hard. That show was legitimately very funny though. It suffered from poor marketing and a questionable series introduction sketch (Bill Clinton breastfeeding dogs)
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Apr 9, 2021 18:28
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God, I love Roy Orbison. Stupid thread, reminding me people I like are dead.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:31
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I'm so tired of being lonely I still have some love to give Won't you show me that you really care?
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Apr 9, 2021 18:33
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Data Graham posted:
If in the golden they wrote a single gag 30 times over and nowadays they write single gag 0,75 times over on average, there's bound to be difference in quality.
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Apr 9, 2021 21:01
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I once heard someone on a podcast trying to explain why they think latter day 'Spaceballs' and 'Men in Tights' Mel Brooks wasn't as funny as 'Blazing Saddles' or 'Young Frankenstein', and they called 'Spaceballs' in particular, "First Draft: The Movie". So I think you're onto something there. If in the early days the funniest writers on tv spent 20 hours a day polishing that poo poo until it shined because they had something to prove, nowadays the fifth funniest writers on the FOX network work strictly 8-5 and don't stress about it too hard.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:43
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I do find it weird though to think of Spaceballs as in the low tier along with Men In Tights. I always thought it was way better than that.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:50
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Data Graham posted:I do find it weird though to think of Spaceballs as in the low tier along with Men In Tights. I always thought it was way better than that. Spaceballs is funny, but Blazing Saddles and Young Frankenstein are perfect. And there's a lot of lazy jokes in Spaceballs. 'Pizza the Hut' is a very first draft joke.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:55
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Imagined posted:'Pizza the Hut' is a very first draft joke. christ, that joke sucks. hurts my eyes just reading it.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:31
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Data Graham posted:I do find it weird though to think of Spaceballs as in the low tier along with Men In Tights. I always thought it was way better than that. Totally agree. It's overrated.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:39
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All the Dark Helmet stuff was gold, but I usually skip over the rest of it.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:43
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Das Boo posted:All the Dark Helmet stuff was gold, but I usually skip over the rest of it. Yeah the Rick Moranis stuff is great and everything else is meh
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Apr 10, 2021 04:49
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men in tights is not only great but also the best mel brooks film 
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Apr 10, 2021 05:48
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Mr Interweb posted:men in tights is not only great but also the best mel brooks film 
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Apr 10, 2021 05:50
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i'm going to assume this is due to some problematic elements, but this was a movie made in 1993, so that is to be expected
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Apr 10, 2021 05:53
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Mr Interweb posted:i'm going to assume this is due to some problematic elements, but this was a movie made in 1993, so that is to be expected No I rewatched it recently with a friend who hadn’t seen it (“dude you gotta see this it’s so funny I was cracking up as a kid!”) and yeah it’s just not very good unfortunately
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Apr 10, 2021 06:42
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What episode was it where marge costs homer money and asks if he hates her or something along those lines it's in the good seasons I'm pretty sure
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Apr 10, 2021 09:35
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Endless Trash posted:No I rewatched it recently with a friend who hadn’t seen it (“dude you gotta see this it’s so funny I was cracking up as a kid!”) and yeah it’s just not very good unfortunately It had some cute bits and jokes, like the ”Hey Abbot!” guy, but it doesn’t hold a candle to Young Frankenstein, Blazing Saddles or the other classic Mel Brooks movies.
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Apr 10, 2021 09:58
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Milo and POTUS posted:What episode was it where marge costs homer money and asks if he hates her or something along those lines it's in the good seasons I'm pretty sure Isn’t it when they let Maggie keep mr burns bear?
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Apr 10, 2021 10:41
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it's Bart gets hit by a car because Marge ruins his chances for a big cash settlement from Mr. Burns
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Apr 10, 2021 11:08
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Das Boo posted:I cast my bid for the way it tells jokes being bad now. It's much too slow, much sloppier and far less trusting of its audience. That Super Eyepatch Wolf video breaks it down pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk&t=1244s (unfortunately the blog he cites is apparently a dead link now).
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Apr 10, 2021 11:44
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I saw Spaceballs in theaters along with Men in Tights so I have a little nostalgic soft spot for them both, even though I know they are nowhere near the legends that are Blazing Saddles and Young Frankenstein or even History of the World: Part 1. Pretty sure I also saw Dracula: Dead and Loving It and instantly forgot about it once I left the theater. It’s a Bram Stoker’s ‘Dracula’ spoof and... ... ... ...??
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Apr 10, 2021 13:23
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You Are A Elf posted:Pretty sure I also saw Dracula: Dead and Loving It and instantly forgot about it once I left the theater. It’s a Bram Stoker’s ‘Dracula’ spoof and... ... ... ...?? When I was a kid I went to see it in theaters. I used the bathroom, and when I was walking back, the person I went with looked not one of the other theaters, and asked me if I wanted to just sneak in and watch the rest of Jumanji instead.
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Apr 10, 2021 14:13
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Hey, it has that gag where they're driving the stake in and a ridiculous amount of blood comes out. That's a good gag, which is one more than the last decade of the Simpsons has had.
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Apr 10, 2021 14:37
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