Politics and Science Fiction: Service Guarantees Citizenship

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mrbotus: Apr 7, 2009; Patron of the Pants

I thought the mass effect plot was taken from am older computer game with a time limit and space gods that eat organic energy to survive. They come about every 50 000 years too.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 00:45

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:03

Owlspiracy: Nov 4, 2020

Can we talk about Warhammer 40k now?

# ? Mar 6, 2021 01:37

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Aruan posted:

Can we talk about Warhammer 40k now?

Hold on let me get my 40k hip-waders.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 01:38

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

sean10mm posted:

Also it never gives any answer for why artificial intelligence is any different from just... everything else in the universe with intelligence. AI race war has to happen because AIs are... um... they never say anything about this, not even something dumb or silly.

Like the Geth motives are totally unchanged if they're made of GMO meat.

There's an element of self-created threat, as didn't the Geth lash out when the Quarian Authorities murdered some of the folks that treated them well? In lashing out at the threat they saw, they made it.

# ? Mar 8, 2021 05:24

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Aruan posted:

Can we talk about Warhammer 40k now?

i think its been better of late. Games workshop basically told the nazis to gently caress off hard and cut ties or chased off a bunch of the loud content creator who were alt right/nazi types. the newer books and lore seem to be way more mature than the older stuff and they seem be possibly splitting the imperium into factions maybe.

# ? Mar 8, 2021 05:40

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i think its been better of late. Games workshop basically told the nazis to gently caress off hard and cut ties or chased off a bunch of the loud content creator who were alt right/nazi types. the newer books and lore seem to be way more mature than the older stuff and they seem be possibly splitting the imperium into factions maybe.

Games Workshop put out a neat trailer for a new edition of 40k recently, and it was pretty noticeable how much more emphasis was being put on the Religious angle vs the Fascism angle compared to when I was playing the game in the 90s-00s. Not to mention that the Sisters of Battle (and a female Guardsman) were given extremely prominent places in the narrative alongside our old buds the Spess Mahreens. They are indeed working overtime to overhaul and modernize the brand, and good on them.

Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Mar 8, 2021

# ? Mar 8, 2021 06:32

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Sanguinia posted:

Games Workshop put out a neat trailer for a new edition of 40k recently, and it was pretty noticeable how much more emphasis was being put on the Religious angle vs the Fascism angle compared to when I was playing the game in the 90s-00s. Not to mention that the Sisters of Battle (and a female Guardsman) were given extremely prominent places in the narrative alongside our old buds the Spess Mahreens. They are indeed working overtime to overhaul and modernize the brand, and good on them.

yeah. i mean the facism is there but its more "weird SPACE CATHOLIC fascists'" rather than "SPACE CATHOLIC FASCISTS" my biggest issue with 40k is there arnt enough great games. only ok ones and a couple good AA ones. fantasy gets all the good poo poo.

# ? Mar 8, 2021 07:28

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

StratGoatCom posted:

There's an element of self-created threat, as didn't the Geth lash out when the Quarian Authorities murdered some of the folks that treated them well? In lashing out at the threat they saw, they made it.

The specific motives of the Geth (or EDI for that matter) are actually just thrown in the bin by the explanation at the end of the main game and in the Leviathan DLC. It is simply inevitable that the either Humans Will Kill All Robots or Robots Will Kill All Humans, and thus the race war can only be prevented via mass violence.

# ? Mar 8, 2021 09:08

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

The Oldest Man posted:

The specific motives of the Geth (or EDI for that matter) are actually just thrown in the bin by the explanation at the end of the main game and in the Leviathan DLC. It is simply inevitable that the either Humans Will Kill All Robots or Robots Will Kill All Humans, and thus the race war can only be prevented via mass violence.

I don't know about you, but I really didn't take Glow Child or the Space Whale's word for it when they "explained," that to me and assume it was authorial soap-boxing, especially because its in explicit conflict with the story of the Geth, which includes the following beats:

1) When they achieved Sentience they interacted peacefully with their creators at first
2) When their creators attempted to destroy them out of reactionary fear they resisted passively until force became necessary to preserve their lives
3) During their war for freedom some Geth dissented from their consensus that total destruction of their creators was necessary and worked to preserve the lives of those Quarrians who felt the war was wrong and the Geth deserved to exist as much as any life form, even fighting off their own kind in some cases and
4) When they had won the war those dissenting Geth were able to change the consensus and get the hive mind to conclude that the outcome of extermination of a species was too uncertain to go through with
5) When an advanced AI machine alien showed up offering to help them by explaining that exterminating species was good actually and they'd done it a bunch of times, and if the Geth would help it accomplish that goal it would help them become even better robots, almost all of the Geth told the alien to gently caress off and went back to advancing their own tech, deliberately avoiding strip-mining their creators planets in favor of using asteroid resources, and exploring religious spirituality in their own weird robot way, including listening to their old creators radio broadcasts.

Like, I really feel like if a character comes along and is like "ignore all that, the race war is totally inevitable," especially after the climax of that storyline is you literally having the opportunity to reconcile the two sides and the extinction of one of them only happens if you deliberately choose for it happen (or you gently caress up along the way and aren't capable enough), you're not really meant to just accept their perspective.

If Star Child's dialogue with Shep creates the impression that its perspective on AI-Bio Relations is unimpeachable and incontrovertible, that's because that dialogue was badly written. Like, you can't even bring up the Geth-Quarian situation and how you made peace between them as far as I remember, that's a "Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet," level gently caress up on the writer's part

# ? Mar 8, 2021 10:02

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

The problems the aliens have with AI are caused by their behavior to AI, consistently - even the Starchild, because if you create and socialize an AI for that job in that way, you shouldn't be surprised when it runs amok. There are serious problems in the writing of ME, but at least try to have some degree of ability to read themes.

# ? Mar 8, 2021 15:42

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Sanguinia posted:

I don't know about you, but I really didn't take Glow Child or the Space Whale's word for it when they "explained," that to me and assume it was authorial soap-boxing, especially because its in explicit conflict with the story of the Geth, which includes the following beats:

1) When they achieved Sentience they interacted peacefully with their creators at first
2) When their creators attempted to destroy them out of reactionary fear they resisted passively until force became necessary to preserve their lives
3) During their war for freedom some Geth dissented from their consensus that total destruction of their creators was necessary and worked to preserve the lives of those Quarrians who felt the war was wrong and the Geth deserved to exist as much as any life form, even fighting off their own kind in some cases and
4) When they had won the war those dissenting Geth were able to change the consensus and get the hive mind to conclude that the outcome of extermination of a species was too uncertain to go through with
5) When an advanced AI machine alien showed up offering to help them by explaining that exterminating species was good actually and they'd done it a bunch of times, and if the Geth would help it accomplish that goal it would help them become even better robots, almost all of the Geth told the alien to gently caress off and went back to advancing their own tech, deliberately avoiding strip-mining their creators planets in favor of using asteroid resources, and exploring religious spirituality in their own weird robot way, including listening to their old creators radio broadcasts.

Like, I really feel like if a character comes along and is like "ignore all that, the race war is totally inevitable," especially after the climax of that storyline is you literally having the opportunity to reconcile the two sides and the extinction of one of them only happens if you deliberately choose for it happen (or you gently caress up along the way and aren't capable enough), you're not really meant to just accept their perspective.

If Star Child's dialogue with Shep creates the impression that its perspective on AI-Bio Relations is unimpeachable and incontrovertible, that's because that dialogue was badly written. Like, you can't even bring up the Geth-Quarian situation and how you made peace between them as far as I remember, that's a "Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet," level gently caress up on the writer's part

yeah, i always felt like the star child was sorta talking out their rear end. they came to a flawed conclusion and just kept going probably because they enjoyed the power, the writing shows the reapers have grown hosed up and egotistical and a bunch of them have hosed up god complexes from doing this for trillions of years. i hate to bring up the MCU but it sorta reminds me thanos motive discussions. like of course its dumb, but its what he tells himself to justfy doing horrible poo poo and he enjoys the power and the killing and playing god. when they fight him later after he relizes he dies. its full mask off, "i just want to kill people until they worship me". i sorta got that vibe from the reapers except maybe earlier on they believe it,

# ? Mar 9, 2021 01:14

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

I Hope You Like Text

The Purge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYYMnkoFtjM
Calling it sci-fi because it takes place in the future-US and The First Purge has those wacky contact lens cameras :colbert:

The Purge-iverse is a good example of how you can explore an idea only to prove how unfit it is, the opposite of the Pauline Kael quote about war movies basically.

We're told that, since The Purge began, Unemployment is near zero, crime is at an all-time low, and people are happy. This is a neat trick because it's essentially the same one Verhoeven pulls in Starship Troopers - that fascism works, at least for the people fully invested in and landed by the fascist government.

Of course, after the boring Purge 1, we get further Purge movies that expand like concentric rings exploring more of the Purge-iverse starting with Anarchy, where we see that government actors are deliberately using The Purge to perform essentially ethnic cleansing in secret. Election Year shows us the absolutely vacant ideology of the NFFA, the fascist group leading America that instituted The Purge in the first place and has apparently held a trifecta in DC for 2 decades. They don't believe in The Purge as some sort of soul-scouring, just that it makes their donors in FIRE and the gun lobbies very rich. You can't force people to sell their homes and Eminent Domain takes forever, but burning down a neighborhood conveniently gives your buddies in the construction industry good jobs rebuilding after you buy the community's burned-down husks for pennies on the dollar and build condos.
The First Purge comes down firmly on the idea that not only would most people, absent agents provocateur, only "Purge" by having raucous block parties, setting off illegal fireworks and looting stores of insulin and diapers, but that the government introduces and supports white supremacists to black and brown communities solely to remind them of 'their place.'

Let's explore the movie's assertions:

Unemployment is Near 0 // The Government is killing as many poor and POC as it can on Purge night - Actual severe reductions in total population, especially in unskilled labor like the Purge, would lead to a balanced labor market for the first time in decades. It's ghoulish to say so, but likely one of the first things that would happen after half the crews of every fast food and retail store didn't show up the next day because they'd been Purged would have been the other half easily asserting additional value for themselves. Simply put, The Purge would lead to a resurgence in labor value as companies would have to compete to obtain non-murdered employees. There'd also need to be wage increases so the relative fewer workers would be able to continue supporting capitalism via increased consumer spending
As we see in Anarchy, stock brokers and bankers get strung up and gutted. I imagine that, since we managed to burn down a police station in Minneapolis last year even with consequences, the roll call at most police stations the day after the first Purge would be 5 IA guys all looking at each other as every racist, dirty cop in the city was Purged by the friends and families of the people they'd wronged. I posit that, after a few years of Purges providing the accountability that the justice system has not, the culture-change or at least turnover of police and other broken institutions would be forever altered for the better.

So while James DeMonaco clearly is arguing that, 'yes, the Purge would be bad and killing people is wrong' (a pretty lukewarm take), it's not quite supported by the text provided - that 0% unemployment, prosperity for all (who survive the purge) and a likely radical reformation of our most corrupt institutions by turnover and replacement if nothing else.

Thoughts?

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 16, 2021

# ? Mar 16, 2021 22:39

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Shrecknet posted:

Let's explore the movie's assertions:
Unemployment is Near 0 // The Government is killing as many poor and POC as it can on Purge night - Actual severe reductions in total population, especially in unskilled labor like the Purge, would lead to a balanced labor market for the first time in decades. It's ghoulish to say so, but likely one of the first things that would happen after half the crews of every fast food and retail store didn't show up the next day because they'd been Purged would have been the other half easily asserting additional value for themselves. Simply put, The Purge would lead to a resurgence in labor value as companies would have to compete to obtain non-murdered employees. There'd also need to be wage increases so the relative fewer workers would be able to continue supporting capitalism via increased consumer spending
As we see in Anarchy, stock brokers and bankers get strung up and gutted. I imagine that, since we managed to burn down a police station in Minneapolis last year even with consequences, the roll call at most police stations the day after the first Purge would be 5 IA guys all looking at each other as every racist, dirty cop in the city was Purged by the friends and families of the people they'd wronged. I posit that, after a few years of Purges providing the accountability that the justice system has not, the culture-change or at least turnover of police and other broken institutions would be forever altered for the better.

So while James DeMonaco clearly is arguing that, 'yes, the Purge would be bad and killing people is wrong' (a pretty lukewarm take), it's not quite supported by the text provided - that 0% unemployment, prosperity for all (who survive the purge) and a likely radical reformation of our most corrupt institutions by turnover and replacement if nothing else.

Thoughts?

My take on the Purge is that the positive aspects are mostly lies because the government is fascist, that's why a populist insurgent politician running on a "No more purges," ticket is so certain to win back the Presidency that they change the laws so they can use the Purge to assassinate her. Even in the first movie where we're presented with the impression that the Purge has created a wealthy, prosperous world its made pretty clear to us that its a lie because in only a couple of hours we run into a Homeless Military Vet (the fasc couldn't even make sure ARE TROOPS got all the help they needed in this bountiful new economic explosion?) and we see that pretty much every middle-class teen who's grown up in the Purge is a Hitler Youth who's view on the value of life has been totally erased, whether its the kids chasing that vet or the boyfriend looking to murder his girlfriend's dad to remove an annoying impediment to their relationship. Then there's the clear view of lower classes like the Store Owner who have clearly NOT really benefitted from this new Purge model. Even setting aside the fact that Insurance Companies are exploiting his business in a borderline Mafioso fashion, the state of his neighborhood and the store itself does not reflect a reality where there is almost no unemployment and wages are higher than ever.

There's some historical basis for the idea that a sudden giant contraction of the labor force would lead to substantially increased wages to help make up the economic ground both in terms of production and consumption, this is one of the big theories people have as to why British wages increased so disproportionately to the rest of the world in the wake of the Black Death which in turn made their consumer base more ready to fuel the industrial revolution. But even among historians that theory is kind of controversial. As for the idea that the Purge also includes a French Revolution component vis a vis power structures being held to task by violence I would say that's equally nonsensical because we see what the 1%ers are doing in the purge, and its not dying. In fact we hear that Purge Tourism is becoming a bigger and bigger thing among FOREIGN rich people, which inherently implies that doing so is pretty drat safe for them. Stock Bros and Bankers getting gutted by the poor just proves that the tools of capital being obliterated doesn't actually affect capital as long as capital still has a relative monopoly on violence. The Purge films make it clear the tools of state violence at the rich's hands vastly outweigh what the poor have to wield, and since fascist indoctrination of raising an entire generation of nazis who see no value in human life, it won't be hard to replace them.

The Purge seems egalitarian but it very demonstrably isn't, and I don't think the theory that the films fail to portray a distopia hold water on close enough inspection. If anything its much more of a Good Hitler Years situation, where what seems like growth and prosperity is a facade covering murder, theft and the violation of a nation for the sake of a radical wealthy elite. Them making a Trump Hat the symbol of The First Purge on posters was not a subtle move.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 23:31

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

If you want to read about age-of-sail-in-SPACE then the RCN series is really fun and stupid, it's basically a complete rip off of the Master and Commander series (which is amazing btw and everyone should read it) complete with two mismatched protagonists defending a dubious political system that they just don't question because they were born into it and lots of space swashbuckling

Also the Culture series is probably my favourite series ever and answers the age-old question of how you'd occupy yourself in a post scarcity, transhumanist society (the answer being meddling in other society's affairs, weird sex, extreme sports and having things like the flu as a novelty)

# ? Mar 22, 2021 19:11

The Cubelodyte: Sep 1, 2006; Practicing Hypnolaw since 1990; Grimey Drawer

mrbotus posted:

I thought the mass effect plot was taken from am older computer game with a time limit and space gods that eat organic energy to survive. They come about every 50 000 years too.

Star Control III used this plot. Man, did that game suck.

# ? Apr 7, 2021 06:18

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

So I recently signed back up to Netflix, and was scrolling through when I stopped on Star Trek: The Next Generation. It did that thing where they start to play a clip to get you interested, and they literally used a clip from Code of Honor, the one with the planet that was coded to be Africa where the king decides that Tasha Yar shall be his next wife. Jesus.

They should have gone with the Pakled as their trailer, a whole species of people with Downs syndrome.

# ? Apr 8, 2021 00:26

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Agents are GO! posted:

So I recently signed back up to Netflix, and was scrolling through when I stopped on Star Trek: The Next Generation. It did that thing where they start to play a clip to get you interested, and they literally used a clip from Code of Honor, the one with the planet that was coded to be Africa where the king decides that Tasha Yar shall be his next wife. Jesus.

They should have gone with the Pakled as their trailer, a whole species of people with Downs syndrome.

yeah. early TGN was some weird hosed up poo poo.

# ? Apr 8, 2021 03:04

-Blackadder-: Jan 2, 2007; Game....Blouses.

^^^ Lmao, I remember those.

Sci-Fi writers for TV are really in just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks mode.

"How bout a planet of Nazi's?!"
"How bout a planet of black people?!!1"

It's really just a twist on the classic sci-fi trope of anthropomorphizing everything. Aliens that were just big insects, etc. Just reverse some normal thing; turn it on it's head and go with that regardless of how little logical sense it makes. Sliders did that a lot, basically by necessity.

-Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 8, 2021

# ? Apr 8, 2021 17:45

SubG: Aug 19, 2004; It's a hard world for little things.

-Blackadder- posted:

Sci-Fi writers for TV are really in just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks mode.

...and they're racist. When you throw everything at the wall and a whole bunch of racism sticks, it's because you were throwing a whole bunch of racism.

Agents are GO! posted:

They should have gone with the Pakled as their trailer, a whole species of people with Downs syndrome.

And it's worth pointing out that it isn't just that they present the affect of people with Downs, it's that the crew reacts to this with a mixture of exasperation and smirking...until the aliens (inevitably) turn out to also be evil. At which point they take advantage of the Pakled's naivety. Riker at one point casually refers to them as "throwbacks", which I hope the writers were unaware is a term used by, e.g. social darwinists, phrenologists, and eugenicists. But, you know, it's Star Trek, so anything's possible.

It really can't be overstated just how mean-spirited an awful lot of Star Trek is.

# ? Apr 8, 2021 21:49

-Blackadder-: Jan 2, 2007; Game....Blouses.

SubG posted:

...and they're racist. When you throw everything at the wall and a whole bunch of racism sticks, it's because you were throwing a whole bunch of racism.

And it's worth pointing out that it isn't just that they present the affect of people with Downs, it's that the crew reacts to this with a mixture of exasperation and smirking...until the aliens (inevitably) turn out to also be evil. At which point they take advantage of the Pakled's naivety. Riker at one point casually refers to them as "throwbacks", which I hope the writers were unaware is a term used by, e.g. social darwinists, phrenologists, and eugenicists. But, you know, it's Star Trek, so anything's possible.

It really can't be overstated just how mean-spirited an awful lot of Star Trek is.

...yup, as it turns out racism is in fact a subset of everything, nailed it.

The Pakled's portrayal was one of the more disturbing things about them. It seemed like the writers were going for the Pakled's tricking Enterprise being just deserts for underestimating them. But the Pakleds felt too vicious to identify with, which just made the whole thing even more uncomfortable.

# ? Apr 9, 2021 12:02

jeeves: May 27, 2001; Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire

Thanks to whoever posted that review of Lucifer�s Hammer in the first page of this thread.

I listened to an audio book of that when I was devouring a ton of media as a teenager in the 90s. I definitely remember at the time thinking �man, some of this poo poo the authors are saying seems a bit ... dated already.� I had no idea just how bad it was, probably from my teenage memory just deleting it for self preservation.

Sort of like when I remember reading Battlefield Earth at like, 13 years old and thinking �hmm, it seems strange that all of the good guys are white and male and literally no other protagonist is...�

# ? Apr 9, 2021 21:11

Dick Trauma: Nov 30, 2007; God damn it, you've got to be kind.

Pushing myself to get through the first Culture book. It reminds me of Larry Niven's books, but bogs down with some inexplicably detailed and long-winded passages, including a mind-bending cannibalism scene described with such enthusiasm that it makes me think that the author should not be allowed outside without adult supervision.

It reads like it's caught between old and new science fiction styles, and not in a good way.

EDIT: VVV You're not my Dad!

Dick Trauma fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 9, 2021

# ? Apr 9, 2021 21:40

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Dick Trauma posted:

Pushing myself to get through the first Culture book. It reminds me of Larry Niven's books, but bogs down with some inexplicably detailed and long-winded passages, including a mind-bending cannibalism scene described with such enthusiasm that it makes me think that the author should not be allowed outside without adult supervision. It reads like it's caught between old and new science fiction styles, and not in a good way.

KEEP GOING

# ? Apr 9, 2021 21:43

-Blackadder-: Jan 2, 2007; Game....Blouses.

Anyone here read Blindsight??

I just read The Things which is the story of John Carpenter's The Thing told from the perspective of The Thing.

-Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Apr 11, 2021

# ? Apr 11, 2021 00:02

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

-Blackadder- posted:

Anyone here read Blindsight??

I just read The Things which is the story of John Carpenter's The Thing told from the perspective of The Thing.

Multiple times, in fact, it's one of my favorite books of all time. Holy poo poo do I love Blindsight and Watts generally

I also read The Thing novelizations and whatnot and they were fantastic, but quite shallow compared to Watts

# ? Apr 11, 2021 00:13

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

SubG posted:

It really can't be overstated just how mean-spirited an awful lot of Star Trek is.

I don't know how old you are, but I honestly think you're underplaying how mean-spirited American culture was at the time Star Trek TNG was made. It's basically this video (which is a pro-click in and of itself):

https://twitter.com/CBThorburn/status/1377696492295761923?s=20

Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Apr 11, 2021

# ? Apr 11, 2021 00:13

Ethics_Gradient: May 5, 2015; Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Dick Trauma posted:

Pushing myself to get through the first Culture book. It reminds me of Larry Niven's books, but bogs down with some inexplicably detailed and long-winded passages, including a mind-bending cannibalism scene described with such enthusiasm that it makes me think that the author should not be allowed outside without adult supervision.

It reads like it's caught between old and new science fiction styles, and not in a good way.

EDIT: VVV You're not my Dad!

Well, the good news is you don't have to worry about Banks getting loose since he died of cancer in 2013 :smith:

Consider Phlebas is a pretty straightforward action movie (IIRC it's going to be developed into an Amazon miniseries or something?). I thought it was a good ride but I don't remember it being super deep. It was also written in the late 80s, so there's that.

Use of Weapons is my favourite Culture book from a storytelling perspective, Excession probably does the most interesting stuff with the Minds and is worth the read for that alone, but TBH I found the central plot device rather tired. I also have a real soft spot for The Algebraest (a non-Culture SF novel) - the antagonist is pretty over the top but the Dwellers are a lot of fun.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 00:43

Hungry: Jul 14, 2006

Consider Phlebas is not really representative of the later Culture novels, and reading it first is kinda dull if you're expecting some of the amazing poo poo Banks did later. It's basically just an adventure story in the same setting he then spent decades developing. Try The Player of Games, Use of Weapons, or Excession instead.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 01:10

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

the big thing to keep in mind about the Culture books is that the whole setting and everything stemming from it is singular, weird, and exceptional, with a focus on the personal in a weirdly obsessive way that brushes aside the far more important broader themes which become quite important with haste and how so little of it matters because of the bigger themes

I highly recommend the series

# ? Apr 11, 2021 01:23

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

-Blackadder- posted:

Anyone here read Blindsight??

I just read The Things which is the story of John Carpenter's The Thing told from the perspective of The Thing.

Some of Blindsight's themes get talked about every now and then in the SPACE: ALIENS thread too.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 01:27

jeeves: May 27, 2001; Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire

I found Consider P. to be pretty interesting entry into the books because it�s written from perspective of an utter rear end in a top hat living outside of a utopia kind of looking in with disgust.

I think a lot of people are turned off by like the entire book just being full of different degrees of rear end in a top hat characters, but it is definitely interesting. I�m glad it goes uphill from there though!

# ? Apr 11, 2021 08:43

-Blackadder-: Jan 2, 2007; Game....Blouses.

Rappaport posted:

Some of Blindsight's themes get talked about every now and then in the SPACE: ALIENS thread too.

Got a link?

# ? Apr 11, 2021 08:55

V-Men: Aug 15, 2001; Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

-Blackadder- posted:

Anyone here read Blindsight??

I just read The Things which is the story of John Carpenter's The Thing told from the perspective of The Thing.

His other short story The Island, about a ship with a crew and AI tasked with building hyperspace gates for humanity, that was turned into a full novel Freeze-Frame Revolution

# ? Apr 11, 2021 09:16

SubG: Aug 19, 2004; It's a hard world for little things.

Agents are GO! posted:

I don't know how old you are, but I honestly think you're underplaying how mean-spirited American culture was at the time Star Trek TNG was made. It's basically this video (which is a pro-click in and of itself):

https://twitter.com/CBThorburn/status/1377696492295761923?s=20

Unless you're trying to argue we should give The Next Generation a pass as a "product of its time" or something I don't know what point you're trying to make. When I say that it can't be overstated how mean a lot of Star Trek is, I'm not parenthetically trying to argue that other media from the '80s isn't mean spirited or...whatever it is you're trying to imply.

I also wouldn't confine my criticism to just TNG.

-Blackadder- posted:

The Pakled's portrayal was one of the more disturbing things about them. It seemed like the writers were going for the Pakled's tricking Enterprise being just deserts for underestimating them. But the Pakleds felt too vicious to identify with, which just made the whole thing even more uncomfortable.

It's a weirdly succinct statement of the Federation paternalism: aliens outside the Federation can't or shouldn't be trusted with advanced technologies (or at all, for that matter) because they have childlike minds and they're probably evil to boot. It's all of the (mostly unexamined) problems of the Prime Directive in microcosm.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 10:20

V-Men: Aug 15, 2001; Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

SubG posted:

It's a weirdly succinct statement of the Federation paternalism: aliens outside the Federation can't or shouldn't be trusted with advanced technologies (or at all, for that matter) because they have childlike minds and they're probably evil to boot. It's all of the (mostly unexamined) problems of the Prime Directive in microcosm.

I always read the Prime Directive in the alternative fashion. It precludes the possibility of colonial / white saviorism by preventing Federation and Starfleet officers from "solving" the problems of less advanced cultures. By and large, the Federation is happy to share its technology with aliens once those aliens have natively developed FTL travel and assuming they want to join the Federation, which has its own set of requirements.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 11:32

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

-Blackadder- posted:

Got a link?

Sure! The thread is pretty long by now, so reading all of it is a bit of a task, but I'm pretty sure there's a vampire and p-zombie discussion in the latest ten pages or so. Or you can start a new one!

# ? Apr 11, 2021 14:03

Dick Trauma: Nov 30, 2007; God damn it, you've got to be kind.

selec posted:

KEEP GOING

I finished it. :smith:

Although there were things I liked, his writing and his world don't appeal enough to me to go back for more, especially when I have 200+ other books on my list. Wish I could retire and just read.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 14:58

Sarcastr0: May 29, 2013; WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES ?!?!?

Gateway is a 1977 science fiction novel by American writer Frederik Pohl.

The Gateway Corporation charges rent to an asteroid called Gateway where there are alien ships no one understands. The controls for selecting a destination have been identified, but nobody knows where a particular setting will take the ship or how long the trip will last; starvation is a danger.

Despite the risks, many people on impoverished, overcrowded, starving Earth hope to go to Gateway, hoping to get enough money to receive "Full Medical."

Embedded in the narrative are various mission reports (usually with fatalities), roster openings, technical bulletins, and other documents.
The economic side of living at Gateway is presented in detail, commencing with the contract all explorers must enter into with the Gateway Corporation, and including how some awards are determined.

Sarcastr0 fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Apr 11, 2021

# ? Apr 11, 2021 16:21

jeeves: May 27, 2001; Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire

Man, I forgot about Gateway� that book is just so good at a feeling of dread. Like every character in the book either knows that they are a walking dead man and pretending that they will make it rich by being the one in like a hundred that make it out alive from these suicide trips.

It�s one of the few books I definitely wouldn�t recommend as an audiobook unless it includes and interspersed action reports and like ads about people desperately needing a hug.

# ? Apr 11, 2021 16:40

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:03

Sarcastr0: May 29, 2013; WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES ?!?!?

jeeves posted:

Man, I forgot about Gateway� that book is just so good at a feeling of dread. Like every character in the book either knows that they are a walking dead man and pretending that they will make it rich by being the one in like a hundred that make it out alive from these suicide trips.

It�s one of the few books I definitely wouldn�t recommend as an audiobook unless it includes and interspersed action reports and like ads about people desperately needing a hug.

I read the sequel, and it was interesting, but did not nearly have the political bite of this one. [Though there is a psychoanalyst framing device that did not age well].

# ? Apr 11, 2021 16:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Politics and Science Fiction: Service Guarantees Citizenship

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