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Genuine question: Does SHIELD even exist anymore after the events of Winter Soldier? I know SWORD does, but I thought Fury and Hill dissolved SHIELD as a government organization and went into deep cover. Is it like a "Fury's Secret SHIELD/ Howling Commandos" thing? Also if Thaddeus Ross is as high up in the US government as he seems to be in the MCU, I could see him building a state sanctioned Thunderbolts team around a now very manipulatable Walker to counter an Avengers team that seems increasingly disconnected from a state authority
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Apr 12, 2021 14:52
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I hope they don’t give a drat if you didn’t wash the show and you’re just lost if they need to bring it up. They’ve already said it ties into a movie and I personally would hate it if they just acted like the show never happened just so people who didn’t watch it won’t be lost. Also the show seems like a major tie-in for the future of the MCU. It along with WandaVision just seem way to important for the future of the Avengers for them to try and pull that. I mean we have the real Vision alive again out there and when he just shows up I don’t understand how they’ll just have him say something like, “My fake self brought me back to life” and the audience will be satisfied with that. TulliusCicero posted:Genuine question: Does SHIELD even exist anymore after the events of Winter Soldier? I know SWORD does, but I thought Fury and Hill dissolved SHIELD as a government organization and went into deep cover. Agents of Shield gives me the impression that Shield is just a secret organization at this point but I’ve given up on it a couple seasons ago so I don’t know where it’s at now.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:53
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Anita Dickinme posted:Agents of Shield gives me the impression that Shield is just a secret organization at this point but I’ve given up on it a couple seasons ago so I don’t know where it’s at now. Agents of Shield just straight up admits it is not MCU canon in the last few seasons. In the MCU, SHIELD doesn't exist anymore.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:58
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SHIELD doesn't exist officially but there was a whole helicarrier's worth of people working with Fury in AoU.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:00
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Spiderman FFM indicates that it's still around in a fashion, but I think the events of Winter Solider can be taken as both in-universe and as Disney saying 'we're done with stories about Hydra'. Shield's place in the stories basically got replaced with 'the Avengers' as they amped up the stakes and the power levels. Avengers HQ starts as an offshoot of Stark Tower and then by the time it becomes its own compound Stark has pretty much taken over from Fury as the leadership character.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:03
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Agents of Shield just straight up admits it is not MCU canon in the last few seasons. Thank god! I really didn’t want to slog through that awful show anymore in case it eventually ever did bleed into the other stuff. Thank you.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:05
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Fury, which is to say Talos, did say in FFH that he used to know everything and now post-blip he knows nothing, which suggests he doesn't have undercover agents in Madripoor.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:07
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Anita Dickinme posted:Thank god! I really didn’t want to slog through that awful show anymore in case it eventually ever did bleed into the other stuff. Thank you. I'm sure you've heard this before, but the show actually does get really good near the end of the first season and stays in the "7 out of 10" range for most of the rest of the series. If you've finished season 2 and still didn't like it, then it is probably safe to quit and never look back.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:07
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Yeah, the exact nature of SHIELD in the MCU is kinda a huge question mark but we know Fury and Hill have SOME kind of SHIELD like organization with Helicarriers and Skrulls. Maybe that's SWORD? Maybe its a secret SHIELD? Maybe the US Government reupped SHIELD on the QT? Maybe they're self financed? Dunno but Fury's got something resembling SHIELD.!Klams posted:I think the thing you have to remember, is that anything they change in these shows, would have to be reintroduced in a movie, because they wont assume people have watched the tv shows. (I mean, less so now, but they try to assume people haven't even seen previous movies). So for example, if Sharon (who was shown in various movies to be a shield agent) turns out to be pb, then either pb dies in this series, or they'd have to re-explain that she became pb in a movie, to ever feature her again. Which would be a kinda hard sell. (If pb dies, and they don't bring her up again, then in 'movie only' continuity, that's leaving it as if she left the series disgraced at the end of Civil War, which seems weird too). And we're watching a show that's likely to result in a new Captain America. That's gonna pop up again in a film. So really, changing Sharon Roger's character doesn't seem like much of a continuity deal breaker here. There's WAY more important stuff changing in this series that's likely to pop up than one fairly small supporting character to Cap, who is now gone anyway. For all intents and purposes, I think this is Captain America 4. MCU fans might take some time to adjust to the idea that Disney+ shows = MCU movies but that seems to be the way they're going and Disney ill be happy to keep telling people to subscribe to Disney+ and catchup on what they missed.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I'm sure you've heard this before, but the show actually does get really good near the end of the first season and stays in the "7 out of 10" range for most of the rest of the series. I’m on season 6 now. I slogged through the first 5 seasons a while ago and started 6 a couple months ago and just decided to stop. I loved the first season but it just kind of outlived itself for me.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:13
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, the exact nature of SHIELD in the MCU is kinda a huge question mark but we know Fury and Hill have SOME kind of SHIELD like organization with Helicarriers and Skrulls. Maybe that's SWORD? Maybe its a secret SHIELD? Maybe the US Government reupped SHIELD on the QT? Maybe they're self financed? Dunno but Fury's got something resembling SHIELD. At the same time, there are people who only watch the Avengers movies so everything that happens in between is just stuff they have to role with. The percentage of people who actually watch every single movie probably isn't that big.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:15
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, the exact nature of SHIELD in the MCU is kinda a huge question mark but we know Fury and Hill have SOME kind of SHIELD like organization with Helicarriers and Skrulls. Maybe that's SWORD? Maybe its a secret SHIELD? Maybe the US Government reupped SHIELD on the QT? Maybe they're self financed? Dunno but Fury's got something resembling SHIELD. That’s exactly it. Disney will essentially tell people to either subscribe to their streaming service or be lost. Can always look things up online if you want.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:16
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live with fruit posted:At the same time, there are people who only watch the Avengers movies so everything that happens in between is just stuff they have to role with. The percentage of people who actually watch every single movie probably isn't that big. That’s absolutely absurd and while I’ll admit there’s people out there like that I cannot comprehend why someone would do this. 
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Apr 12, 2021 15:18
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live with fruit posted:At the same time, there are people who only watch the Avengers movies so everything that happens in between is just stuff they have to role with. The percentage of people who actually watch every single movie probably isn't that big. Yeah. I know plenty of people who skipped various parts of the MCU based on their tastes or general engagement but still watched Infinity War/Endgame. Sure, they didn't get 100% of the characters and references but there's so much going on that they also probably didn't mostly notice. They just ending up asking a random question like "who was?" or "how did?" after and I filled in the blanks. I'm a crazy completionist weirdo who doesn't like to skip parts, but most people aren't like that. So yeah, some people might skip the Disney+ and be a little lost, but that's always been built into the MCU dynamic. If anything now its probably easier because Marvel/Disney can just keep pointing to Disney+ and telling its viewers to catch up easily there for just $8 a month!
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Apr 12, 2021 15:26
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If they keep pumping out more and more material it just becomes sort of like how canon is in the actual comics. Until now it's still been mostly a linear series of films so it's hard to compare it to the hundreds of comic book issues that come out to pick and choose from, but there are Marvel readers who just don't read X-Men books or Spider-Man books or cosmic books or whatever. But then an event will come along that's X-Men vs. Avengers or something and an Avengers reader will definitely pick that up. They're usually pretty good about spelling out big plot changes like alignment shifts or different people picking up mantles but a lot of times you just deal with vague context clues and realize that you'll have to go read another comic if you want to know why Hulk is acting like that now or whatever. I think this has also really dovetailed with internet culture and the wiki obsessions where everyone is constantly trying to keep up to date or learn the history of these fictional worlds and they're willing to do it completely separate from actually reading a comic. Which in this case is to say a lot of people who don't feel like watching the MCU shows will still probably learn about everything that happens in them without a film recap.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:41
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Ror posted:If they keep pumping out more and more material it just becomes sort of like how canon is in the actual comics. Until now it's still been mostly a linear series of films so it's hard to compare it to the hundreds of comic book issues that come out to pick and choose from, but there are Marvel readers who just don't read X-Men books or Spider-Man books or cosmic books or whatever. But then an event will come along that's X-Men vs. Avengers or something and an Avengers reader will definitely pick that up. Plus now they have the Legends show, though that does require having D+. They even gave one to Zemo even though he was only in Civil War.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:43
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I wonder if SPEAR and WAND will eventually show up in the MCU
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Apr 12, 2021 16:43
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If Sam shows up as Captain America in Avengers 5, people who have only seen the movies shouldn't be lost since he's being given the shield at the end of Endgame. They just missed the 6 hour movie of how he gets his new costume.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:44
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Harlock posted:If Sam shows up as Captain America in Avengers 5, people who have only seen the movies shouldn't be lost since he's being given the shield at the end of Endgame. They just missed the 6 hour movie of how he gets his new costume. Reminds me of all the complaints that we didn't see how Banner turned himself into Smart Hulk. Sometimes just being told "He's Smart Hulk now," or "Sam's Captain America now," gets the job done. (And we could still get a flashback to Banner Smart Hulking in She-Hulk.)
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Apr 12, 2021 16:51
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Regretful Humming posted:No, it's Ward! Stunt casting Brett Dalton would certainly get a reaction from the fans.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:53
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Ror posted:If they keep pumping out more and more material it just becomes sort of like how canon is in the actual comics. Until now it's still been mostly a linear series of films so it's hard to compare it to the hundreds of comic book issues that come out to pick and choose from, but there are Marvel readers who just don't read X-Men books or Spider-Man books or cosmic books or whatever. But then an event will come along that's X-Men vs. Avengers or something and an Avengers reader will definitely pick that up. Yeah there's always character changes and stuff that happens between films. Smart Hulk, Ronin, whatever. Now there's just going to be more stuff in between for Disney to point people towards, but if they don't want to do it they won't be any more lost. Assuming the filmmakers don't make their stories too dependent on that. And generally the MCU seems specifically designed both for casual stand alone viewing and sticky links for binging. Its probably a big part of their wide appeal that they get both kinds of audiences.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:57
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I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I found one element of the most recent FaWS episode to be kinda ridiculous. At the end. Karli punches Lemar. Lemar hits the pillar and dies. Every single person in the fight just stops fighting and turns to look with all shocked faces. The man Karli is trying to murder turns his back to her and goes over to have an emotional moment. Everyone watches the emotional moment happen before the calm breaks and chaos reigns again. Now, I've never been in a fight, much less a fight involving multiple people and super soldiers. But I feel like that moment was so falsely engineered to be an emotional moment. We're all trying to murder each other, and one person has a specific plan to kill another combatant. But if someone actually dies? Holy poo poo everyone, let's pause - poo poo just got real. I didn't realize trying to kill people would involved people getting killed! It felt so manufactured that I had to laugh.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:20
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Lucas Archer posted:I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I found one element of the most recent FaWS episode to be kinda ridiculous. This just means that it's canon that the faceless goons don't die in fights.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:28
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I mean, the point of it is that no one really intended for him to die. He's the only basic human in the fight. He's been tied up and left in a corner by the Flag Smashers. Sam and Bucky are actively trying to prevent anyone from dying. He's Walker's best friend in deep ways. And Karli's killed people but never face to face or with her bare hands. Its supposed to be a big deal because taking a life is supposed to be a big deal. And while plenty of people have been killed in this series this was a weaker party wwho was at the mercy of the strong fighting. So it stopped everyone in their tracks. Walker lost his brother. Sam and Bucky failed in their mission. And Karli and the Flag Smashers have crossed a line. And really all these people are in over their heads and heavily conflicted so this is a shocking moment that stops them in their tracks. But if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:34
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, the point of it is that no one really intended for him to die. He's the only basic human in the fight. He's been tied up and left in a corner by the Flag Smashers. Sam and Bucky are actively trying to prevent anyone from dying. He's Walker's best friend in deep ways. And Karli's killed people but never face to face or with her bare hands. Its supposed to be a big deal because taking a life is supposed to be a big deal. And while plenty of people have been killed in this series this was a weaker party wwho was at the mercy of the strong fighting. So it stopped everyone in their tracks. Walker lost his brother. Sam and Bucky failed in their mission. And Karli and the Flag Smashers have crossed a line. And really all these people are in over their heads and heavily conflicted so this is a shocking moment that stops them in their tracks. I didn't think about it that way, that makes sense. When I watch the episode again, I'll keep that in mind.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:39
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Battlestar is a cop
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Apr 12, 2021 17:39
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Power Broker is Ralph Bohner.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:49
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I also laughed really hard at calling off the fight scene because someone died. Reminded me of an old Clickhole article about the American Revolution and how a battle got canceled because someone accidentally got hurt.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:52
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They don't actually know that Cap is suped up until the fight starts, the plan was always to murder a regular guy.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:58
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Regretful Humming posted:No, it's Ward! I miss him, he was a really good villain that you loved to hate.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:59
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Alchenar posted:They don't actually know that Cap is suped up until the fight starts, the plan was always to murder a regular guy. Their plan was to "kill a symbol." Karli specifically dismisses killing Sam as "just killing a guy." By their own words they've established a difference, and that's without even considering the scene of them listening to the people Karli killed and looking pained or Karli's conversation with Sam about that. Or the basic fact that they had a chance to kill Lamar and they passed on it, leaving him tied up out of the way of the fight. They didn't go there intending to kill Battlestar. Karli didn't mean to punch him through a wall. What our individual values of his life or their plans are is actually kind of irrelevant. The question is why they were affected by it. Either it was crossing a line they weren't morally comfortable with or prepared for, or they were afraid because they had just murdered Psycho Captain America's sidekick and were already losing this fight. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 18:05
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People very seldom die in MCU brawls, so it made sense.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:05
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Alchenar posted:They don't actually know that Cap is suped up until the fight starts, the plan was always to murder a regular guy. What is the plan and actually seeing somebody get brutally murdered in a fit of rage are different things none of these people had actually killed anyone before aside from Karli and she did an impersonal bombing she didn't have to watch a human die and watch his friend's anguish as he begs for Lamar to be ok. They talk about being heroes who get their hands dirty but they hadn't killed really gotten blood on their hands yet.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:06
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Regretful Humming posted:No, it's Ward! Still the best MCU villain.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:08
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They just posted a mid-season trailer, mostly dialogue over old footage but a couple new shots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQSHrgjayz8
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Apr 12, 2021 18:10
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I feel like it bears saying again that while Sam is the idealistic "I agree with your fight but not with your violence" is the other half of Bucky and his position. Bucky- and Isaiah, even more so- are both walking, talking examples of "Hey, guess what, being turned into a super-soldier for an idea by some powerful people in charge is going to ruin your life and they're going to see you as a danger and not a hero as long as you're not directly working for them, under their control". Sam is the noble hero, but Bucky is a walking, talking metaphor for PTSD. Hell, Isaiah reminded me terrifyingly about a few conversations with my PTSD father, about the particular troubles he'd laugh off about how he'd have to remind himself of certain things when he got angry- like he SHOULDN'T just move to push their throat in, or how my mom would have to REMIND him he's carrying a gun and thus probably shouldn't go starting a fight. Everyone can justify that they killed someone however the gently caress they want to- including "It was literal mind control that I had no part in and no control over"- and will, if they have an ounce of human empathy, fall the gently caress apart when they're actually confronted with the real damage they have caused. Except the military literally exists in part to help quash that idea and tell you that the other side is your enemy for you to kill. Karli looks horrified at what she's done and Walker does not. That alone is more than I expected this show to actually get into. It doesn't scream it in your face because... well, it's not as effective to just tell as it is to show the effects. But I wouldn't be surprised if we get Sam literally saying what the show is about by the end of it, and refusing the serum while accepting a position as Cap.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:13
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tsob posted:There's also gonna be a new charater played by a well known actor in episode 5 according to an interview with Malcolm Spellman, the show runner. Which, speculation time, I guess. Though he said it weeks ago from what I gather. Haha nice try but I'm not falling for that again. Until they show anything on screen I ain't theorising poo poo... Apart from the final fight being between Falcon and Bucky and their knock-off counterparts with the same powers/skill-set.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:21
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Power Broker sounds like someone who could also be useful in the Armor Wars series so maybe that thread won't get wrapped up in a neat little bow. But all my theories are always wrong so lol
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Apr 12, 2021 18:23
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Power Broker is obviously Howard the Duck Sarah is the MCU's Beverly Switzler
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Apr 12, 2021 18:34
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Azhais posted:Power Broker is obviously Howard the Duck If they did this I'd totally forgive the crappiness of the WandaVision ending.
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