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BonHair posted:Do any non-Abrahamic religions even do yearly fasting? Genuinely curious, I only really know the Abrahamic religions for most purposes. I don't think Scandinavian paganism, new or old, has it in a religious way, although I'm sure the Vikings had a pretty strict "no fresh fruit or veggies December-February" thing going for climate reasons. Fasting is a common practice in Hinduism, including yearly fasting for specific days such as Maha Shivaratri. It's not as uniform as Ramadan or Lent though (but, you know, Hinduism, diversity, is it even one religion, what even is a religion  )
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Apr 12, 2021 08:06
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BonHair posted:Do any non-Abrahamic religions even do yearly fasting? Genuinely curious, I only really know the Abrahamic religions for most purposes. I don't think Scandinavian paganism, new or old, has it in a religious way, although I'm sure the Vikings had a pretty strict "no fresh fruit or veggies December-February" thing going for climate reasons. Depends what you mean by "yearly" and "fast", but Ethiopian Christianity has an absolute metric ton of fasting days in terms of "no meat": 250 days a year for priests and a whopping 180 for laypeople. Ethiopian Lent is also both longer and substantially more hardcore than Ramadan ("During the 40-day advent fast, only one vegan meal is allowed per day, in the afternoon or evening."), although I guess their climate is nice (mostly) and you can drink water, so at least you won't hear of idiots dying of dehydration like some do during Ramadan. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...0and%20priests. Saladman fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 12:38
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Saladman posted:Depends what you mean by "yearly" and "fast", but Ethiopian Christianity has an absolute metric ton of fasting days in terms of "no meat": 250 days a year for priests and a whopping 180 for laypeople. Ethiopian Lent is also both longer and substantially more hardcore than Ramadan ("During the 40-day advent fast, only one vegan meal is allowed per day, in the afternoon or evening."), although I guess their climate is nice (mostly) and you can drink water, so at least you won't hear of idiots dying of dehydration like some do during Ramadan. woah is ethiopian christianity non-abrahamic??
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Apr 12, 2021 15:32
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cebrail posted:Fasting is a common practice in Hinduism, including yearly fasting for specific days such as Maha Shivaratri. It's not as uniform as Ramadan or Lent though (but, you know, Hinduism, diversity, is it even one religion, what even is a religion It's a can of worms I'd love to read up on because I do struggle to understand why Hinduism gets considered one monolithic entity. I'm assuming the answer is 19th century racists but I don't actually know.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:36
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a pipe smoking dog posted:19th century racists "hindoo"
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Apr 12, 2021 15:45
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a pipe smoking dog posted:It's a can of worms I'd love to read up on because I do struggle to understand why Hinduism gets considered one monolithic entity. Hindu nationalism is pretty big these days in India. This to me suggests a fairly all-encompassing view of the religion, though maybe not? How do Hindus themselves think about this?
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Apr 12, 2021 16:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:"hindoo" Hindu is an exonym anyway, the spelling change is the least racist part of it by far
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Apr 12, 2021 16:45
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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a pipe smoking dog posted:It's a can of worms I'd love to read up on because I do struggle to understand why Hinduism gets considered one monolithic entity. I think we don't really have a word for things like Confucianism or Hinduism in our european languages so we try to press it into our familiar template of religion, which just doesn't work very well.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:04
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It's just like the old Greek (or Norse, or whichever) religion, which we also tend to think of as a monolithic block despite having wide varieties even from island to island.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:10
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The Hindu mysteries
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Apr 12, 2021 17:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mrNEVUuZdk I really don't see how France is a Hexagon. All of its sides are concave enough to make it a star, and if you flatten them out, it seems more like a pentagon. And if you count the sides from a political/social standpoint, there's at least three countries on the east, a country and a coast on the south, and two different coasts on the north and west. a pipe smoking dog posted:It's a can of worms I'd love to read up on because I do struggle to understand why Hinduism gets considered one monolithic entity. Well, they're unified enough to differentiate themselves from the muslims of India. It's not like Christianity, Judaism, or Islam are very monolithic. They're fragmented into a bunch of different sects and groups that only loosely share aspects. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 17:45
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SlothfulCobra posted:I really don't see how France is a Hexagon. All of its sides are concave enough to make it a star, and if you flatten them out, it seems more like a pentagon. And if you count the sides from a political/social standpoint, there's at least three countries on the east, a country and a coast on the south, and two different coasts on the north and west. The Manche, the horrific belgian border bit, the german-swiss border near the Rhine, the mediterranean, the spanish border along the pyrénées, and the atlantic. Six sides.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:51
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France often used to get called Le Pentagone until les amerloches built that horrible building.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:14
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SlothfulCobra posted:I really don't see how France is a Hexagon.  
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Apr 12, 2021 18:23
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If I draw lines that don't even line up with the borders, leave parts of france outside the lines, and hell are mostly just going through the ocean, while otherwise just picking random points to force "equidistant" lines then France is a Hexagon!
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Apr 13, 2021 02:16
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galagazombie posted:If I draw lines that don't even line up with the borders, leave parts of france outside the lines, and hell are mostly just going through the ocean, while otherwise just picking random points to force "equidistant" lines then France is a Hexagon! Nevermind that most of the points are on the border and one of the edges whose vertices are not on the border does line up with the border.
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Apr 13, 2021 02:18
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And that most of those 'random' points correspond to rivers and mountain ranges
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Apr 13, 2021 02:27
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galagazombie posted:leave parts of france outside the lines do you really have to dunk on Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon right now
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Apr 13, 2021 02:44
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GABA ghoul posted:I think we don't really have a word for things like Confucianism or Hinduism in our european languages so we try to press it into our familiar template of religion, which just doesn't work very well. I've been trying to read a bit more in depth about Confucianism lately and it's still one of those things that kind of confounds my western mind, but one thing I've learned is that while in premodern China, like you're saying, there wasn't really such a thing as "Confucianism" -- it was a diverse set of schools of thought that the people of the time wouldn't necessarily have lumped together -- in Korea and Japan it was different. The schools and trends of Confucianism did end up lumped together, along with a lot of Chinese thought and tradition in general, into a much more monolithic thing. The way a lot of Chinese thought/innovations etc permeated through East Asia is really pretty interesting and it was almost never actually "China passed on tradition x wholesale" in the way it's portrayed. It's been permeating throughout the other East Asian countries for a couple of thousand years and form foundational parts of their national foundations so there are obviously massive differences still to how it all came to be known in the west, but the Chinese traditions were still alien to them, and did still have to be digested by Korea/Japan/Vietnam etc, and ended up coming to be known markedly differently than in China proper.
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Apr 13, 2021 02:57
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Koramei posted:I've been trying to read a bit more in depth about Confucianism lately and it's still one of those things that kind of confounds my western mind, but one thing I've learned is that while in premodern China, like you're saying, there wasn't really such a thing as "Confucianism" -- it was a diverse set of schools of thought that the people of the time wouldn't necessarily have lumped together -- in Korea and Japan it was different. The schools and trends of Confucianism did end up lumped together, along with a lot of Chinese thought and tradition in general, into a much more monolithic thing.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:18
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My point is more that it's often perceived as the west having a radically different perspective on what Confucianism is compared to China+Korea+Vietnam+Japan, when in fact it's more like the west and also Korea+Vietnam+Japan have a different perspective on it compared to China (in somewhat different ways but still).
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Apr 13, 2021 05:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I mean, that's not really unique to "Confucianism". Like, take Christianity and tell me that it's a not a diverse set of schools of thought whose believers don't all recognize each other as Christians. It might be advantaged right now in terms of nuanced views due to recent world history, but the moment the West is not on top anymore it's gonna be very easy to just lump Christianity together into this strict hierarchical and evangelical belief system used by Western leaders to justify oppression abroad and at home. Disagree on the second part - Christianity has stopped being a mostly European/Western religion a long time ago and is absolutely booming in Latin America, Africa and Asia with already about two thirds of all Christians living in the global south. I don’t really see eg Africans declaring Christianity as a whole a merely Western concept when most of their own country or even continent has not only been Christian for generations but also sees itself as the new heart and core of global Christianity
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Apr 13, 2021 06:27
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Koramei posted:My point is more that it's often perceived as the west having a radically different perspective on what Confucianism is compared to China+Korea+Vietnam+Japan, when in fact it's more like the west and also Korea+Vietnam+Japan have a different perspective on it compared to China (in somewhat different ways but still). System Metternich posted:Disagree on the second part - Christianity has stopped being a mostly European/Western religion a long time ago and is absolutely booming in Latin America, Africa and Asia with already about two thirds of all Christians living in the global south. I don’t really see eg Africans declaring Christianity as a whole a merely Western concept when most of their own country or even continent has not only been Christian for generations but also sees itself as the new heart and core of global Christianity
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Apr 13, 2021 06:35
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"Latin America" was invented to make sure the world understands that it's not part of the West.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:40
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I'm pretty sure Napoleon III invented the term to justify France meddling in Mexico.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Latin America is part of the West though? Also, I’m considering this from a hypothetical “Chinese hegemony” perspective, not some egalitarian world order. Well I'll be damned, I always thought the most common definition excluded it but turns out I was wrong! And yeah, when viewed from a specifically Chinese perspective I can definitely see that
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Apr 13, 2021 07:53
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Byzantine posted:I'm pretty sure Napoleon III invented the term to justify France meddling in Mexico. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 08:27
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a pipe smoking dog posted:It's a can of worms I'd love to read up on because I do struggle to understand why Hinduism gets considered one monolithic entity. As I understand it, every version is pretty close to the neighbouring versions (easiest case is the next town over), but with small differences. Like, at some point a god gets more prominence and better stories in one place than others. Geography for instance could influence this, mountain related gods are more important if you have an actual mountain. So the basic religion has spread and "mutated" across the country, but any one version will be pretty similar to nearby versions. Also some major stories might not change too much. But if you travel across the country, the Hinduism you see will be quite different, while still keeping some stuff intact. Travel and trade will also have some normalizing effect, since travellers would want a temple compatible with their beliefs. And I'm modern times, Hindu nationalism is definitely doing something, probably also standardising a bit. It's more of an umbrella term than a monolithic entity. I feel bad for the guy who decided to write a proper canon of the pantheon, because that is never gonna work. We have something similar with Christianity. Are Mormons Christians? Jehovah's witnesses? Catholics? Prosperity gospel? And that's just America. They all trace their lineage back to this one Jewish guy though
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Apr 13, 2021 08:41
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SlothfulCobra posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mrNEVUuZdk Obviously I'm aware that other religions aren't monolithic. I was raised primarily in Britain but I'm aware of the divisions within Islam and Christianity and Buddhism but I have no awareness of whether there are similar sects within Hinduism. Like are there Hindus who think that other Hindus aren't real Hindus because they prioritise the wrong gods or eat food which is unclean? It just seems weird to me that we rarely hear about divisions within Hinduism when we do hear it about other religions. I suppose it's also interesting that Hinduism gets to be considered a "real" religion when other similar religions with local deities and pantheons are generally described as "just" folk traditions.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:42
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Byzantine posted:I'm pretty sure Napoleon III invented the term to justify France meddling in Mexico. Who is going to post those Emperor Maximilian comics this time System Metternich posted:Disagree on the second part - Christianity has stopped being a mostly European/Western religion a long time ago and is absolutely booming in Latin America, Africa and Asia with already about two thirds of all Christians living in the global south. I don’t really see eg Africans declaring Christianity as a whole a merely Western concept when most of their own country or even continent has not only been Christian for generations but also sees itself as the new heart and core of global Christianity There's also Ethiopia, which has been christian since before Constantine I believe
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Apr 13, 2021 10:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, but the same could apply if China was on top. China’s view on Christianity vs. that of the West, rather than China’s vs. a bunch of different interpretations. I think we’re talking at cross purposes because i don’t exactly disagree, but this wasn’t really what i was saying either. In East Asia, China very much was on top, yet its neighbors still viewed its philosophies in a very different lense.
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Apr 13, 2021 11:16
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Who is going to post those Emperor Maximilian comics this time Not to mention all those groups like the Nestorians that were historically more relevant. I mean, the Malabar Christians (Saint Thomas Christians) have been in India for what, like 1400 years? Christianity likely had a more substantial (albeit always minor) role in China too in late classical and medieval times. I guess Ethiopia is the only nation state that stands out with the majority and state religion being Christianity but also being "definitively non-Western". It's also worth noting that e.g. Sudan was heavily Christian, like the Dongala area, until it gradually got wiped out from the 600s-1400s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Dongola Ethiopia also had bits and pieces of time with reasonable trading connections to Europe and the MENA region, especially during the Crusader State years when Ethiopia had its last heyday, like when they were building the huge monolithic stone churches in Lalibela. Then gradually they lost their coast and became isolated by hostile forces until the Portuguese showed up a couple hundred years later and re-established contact. Wikipedia's definition of "Western" is kind of funny too. Like Suriname and Haiti and Guyana don't count for some reason, but literally the entire rest of the Americas do? Bosnia and Cyprus are also odd ones out, if Kosovo and Armenia count. Albania is always weird, so I can accept that one. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 13:22
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Haiti is culturally more closely tied to continental Africa, right?
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Apr 13, 2021 13:36
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I had to post the Wikipedia map because lmao
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Apr 13, 2021 13:43
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Morocco is also not included in the West, despite the Arabic name being literally "the West".https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco posted:Morocco (/məˈrɒkoʊ/ (listen); Arabic: المغرب, romanized: al-maḡrib, lit. 'place the sun sets; the west'
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Apr 13, 2021 13:44
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I had to post the Wikipedia map because lmao Japan is Japan
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Apr 13, 2021 13:58
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 This wikipedia map (the main image in Western world article) skips countries that aren't Latin American, Orthodox or categorised as "Western" in Clash of Civilizations (1996). Kennel fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 14:00
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e:fb
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Apr 13, 2021 14:16
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It's a vague term that is used differently in each place. For example i live in Brazil and Latin America and Eastern Europe are always included in the definition of Western, and i'm aware they are usually excluded in english but it feels weird. Those maps excluding Greece from their definition of western civilization is hilarious through. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 14:19
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I had to post the Wikipedia map because lmao Which article is this from?
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