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76 | 50.67% |
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| Total: | 127 votes | ||
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FrozenVent posted:Evergreen hasn’t made a statement either way and it’s unlikely they just say gently caress it and walk away. 900 mil is likely Egypt trying to squeeze Evergreen for cash, the actual impact of the lost trade was something like 400M, and Egypt is hoping Evergreen will offer them half or something. Or the value of the cargo and ship is more than 400M and Egypt is hoping Evergreen walks away so they can auction it off.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:42
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Also assuming the Egyptians don’t try and seize the cargo for “compensation”…although that might be a legit option, sadly I could never get into the maritime law class the one or two times it was offered in law school. I figured it would be a fun adventure into obscure rear end law. The ship and it's cargo has been seized. They're talking to the insurance company for Evergreen at the moment, but who knows if they reach a deal or if they auction off the ship.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:43
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Also assuming the Egyptians don’t try and seize the cargo for “compensation”…although that might be a legit option, sadly I could never get into the maritime law class the one or two times it was offered in law school. I figured it would be a fun adventure into obscure rear end law. Something something gold fringed flags freemen upon the land etc. E: I know that sovcits are idiots who got suckered by people quoting admiralty law, not maritime law.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:45
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BIG HEADLINE posted:And I'm sure the next Republican president will find a reason to send an "exploratory force" there to keep the cash register ringing. If there were Burger Kings and Subways on bases in Vietnam in the 60s we'd probably still be there. My understanding is also that Afghanistan is an immensely useful strategic location for containment against China / Pakistan and as such carries a lot of upside for, at the very minimum, a continued airbase presence or 6
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Apr 14, 2021 18:46
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way possible.
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orange juche posted:Something something gold fringed flags freemen upon the land etc. Admiralty law is maritime law, friend. That's why there are jokes about sovcits being boats.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:49
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orange juche posted:900 mil is likely Egypt trying to squeeze Evergreen for cash, the actual impact of the lost trade was something like 400M, and Egypt is hoping Evergreen will offer them half or something. Or the value of the cargo and ship is more than 400M and Egypt is hoping Evergreen walks away so they can auction it off. 400 millions in lost canal tolls? That’s a little high, basis their 2020 revenu it’s more like 117 mill per week. They might be including the salvage costs, which, yeah, could be in the hundreds of mill. It’s 100% Egypt trying to squeeze them, once the media spotlight is off someone is going to fly into Cairo with a duffel bag and fly out empty handed and the ship will quietly go to Port Said and unload. That’s how it works there, the only difference this time is the memes.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:52
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Bored As gently caress posted:Watch this channel PoliceActivity to see a lot of "good" shoots (meaning justifiable uses of deadly force, not "good" in the fact that someone was shot). I think people are underestimating the amount of times where deadly force is justified in police shootings. There's a lot of bad shoots out there, and way too much police brutality. But there are plenty of legally justifiable shoots where guys are shooting at police or charging at them with knives. Sure, and some of these illustrate the scenarios when an armed responder of some sort is needed. But on the flip side a lot of these scenarios wouldn't have happened to begin with if there was no police contact with the offenders to provoke them.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:54
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FrozenVent posted:400 millions in lost canal tolls? That’s a little high, basis their 2020 revenu it’s more like 117 mill per week. They might be including the salvage costs, which, yeah, could be in the hundreds of mill. Smitt estimated cost and fees for their salvage help was something near 300M USD, so that and the canal fees adds up to close to the amount. Egypt is just trying to get a big markup and hoping Evergreen eats it or walks the gently caress away.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:57
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FrozenVent posted:400 millions in lost canal tolls? That’s a little high, basis their 2020 revenu it’s more like 117 mill per week. They might be including the salvage costs, which, yeah, could be in the hundreds of mill. This article has some info. https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/13/business/ever-given-seized-compensation-bill-intl/index.html $300m for reputation damages and $300m for "salvage bonus" means there was less than $300m in actual damages.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:58
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"reputation damages" ie gently caress you pay us because we're pissed and want money
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Apr 14, 2021 18:59
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orange juche posted:"reputation damages" ie gently caress you pay us because we're pissed and want money They honestly have all of the leverage, so I can't blame them.
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Apr 14, 2021 19:00
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orange juche posted:Smitt estimated cost and fees for their salvage help was something near 300M USD, so that and the canal fees adds up to close to the amount. Egypt is just trying to get a big markup and hoping Evergreen eats it or walks the gently caress away. That’s assuming Smitt was contracted by the government or SCA and not by the ship. They’d usually get a contract with the ship so they can put a lien on it (beside the coastal / port state would sale to recover from the owner anyway) To sum up the claims, roughly: -The salvors (SMITT and excavator dude) have a claim against the owners of the ship for the salvage award, assuming the salvage was performed under LOF, or for the salvage costs and mark up if that’s how they were contracted -The charterers (Evergreen) have a claim against the owners for off-hire for the time since the ship ran aground -The ship owners have a general average claim against the charterers and cargo interest to recover the salvage costs -Some cargo owners are going to sue the charterers and owners to recover the value of spoiled cargo; they will lose (Hague-Visby wooo) -The ships that got delayed and the owners of cargo onboard same are poo poo out of luck -Egypt is going to do whatever the gently caress they feel like; they reasonably have a claim for the damage to the canal and their salvage effort but they’re a government so laws don’t really apply to them. -The pilots are home and laughing -The crew is stuck onboard until further notice but they should still be getting paid, unless the ship management company (different entity from the owners or charterers) goes under. Then the insurers, reinsurers and P&I are all going to start flinging poo poo at each other’s, and there’s going to be brokers and the like filling claims up and down the chain, but them’s the basic. It’s pretty simple overall, except for their being a few dozen thousand cargo owners. That’s your headache. That and the media attention, you don’t want the duffel bag to end up in a meme.
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Apr 14, 2021 19:06
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where are they placing blame? Guessing there will be a long & huge investigation. Egypt is being lovely and trying to shake money out of the insurance company, more or less? I read something about high winds and the ship being loaded high. Forgot if I read here or on reddit, but, unlike the Panama Canal, I guess the pilot of the Suez canal is more of an advisor to the ship going through With the Panama Canal, the pilot will take full control of the ship, which also means blame. something like that. Nostalgia4Dogges fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Apr 14, 2021 |
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Apr 14, 2021 19:13
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https://twitter.com/statuscoup/status/1382356917675294725?s=21 Honestly looks a lot worse than anything I ever saw out of Hong Kong
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Apr 14, 2021 19:13
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hobbesmaster posted:https://twitter.com/statuscoup/status/1382356917675294725?s=21 America having a normal one... (  )
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Apr 14, 2021 20:07
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We are an occupied country lol
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Apr 14, 2021 20:11
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Duzzy Funlop posted:America having a normal one... Cops were slashing tires all last summer, too
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Apr 14, 2021 20:13
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cops love slashing tires
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Apr 14, 2021 20:16
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Gotta be like Portland and slash their tires before they slash yours
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Apr 14, 2021 20:23
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Flying_Crab posted:Sure, and some of these illustrate the scenarios when an armed responder of some sort is needed. But on the flip side a lot of these scenarios wouldn't have happened to begin with if there was no police contact with the offenders to provoke them. That's a very good point. There are definitely are scenarios where the cops shouldn't have been called. You can see on PoliceActivity and other bodycam YouTube channels plenty of instances where cops shouldn't have been called. There are absolutely some calls where a mobile mental health crisis team would've been able to resolve the issue. I absolutely believe social workers need to be integrated into police departments, and respond alongside cops to mental health calls where the guy is threatening himself or his family. If the social worker can't help the guy, then and only then should the cops intervene. There's even more instances where if cops were Crisis Intervention Team trained, they might have been able to talk down a guy, or not escalate a situation by saying the wrong thing. All cops should be trained in verbal deescalation techniques more than just a few hours at the academy. It needs to be ingrained from the very start. Which is why national police standards and certification is one of the only realistic solutions to prevent a lot of these incidents. The book Verbal Judo goes over basically how all cops should act. Unfortunately it's not taught widely enough.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:32
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Nostalgia4Dogges posted:where are they placing blame? Guessing there will be a long & huge investigation. Egypt is being lovely and trying to shake money out of the insurance company, more or less? I read something about high winds and the ship being loaded high. Pilots everywhere except Panama, and even then, are only onboard in an advisory capacity. The ship was loaded in accordance with design and regulation. The captain is going to be blamed. The root cause is poor forecasting and the SCA allowing the ship through when there was a risk of a sandstorm, but it’ll be two plus years before we see an investigation report. Egypt always tries to shake money out of people. You can’t get through the canal without disbursing a fuckton of courtesy payments.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:38
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Bored As gently caress posted:That's a very good point. There are definitely are scenarios where the cops shouldn't have been called. You can see on PoliceActivity and other bodycam YouTube channels plenty of instances where cops shouldn't have been called. There are absolutely some calls where a mobile mental health crisis team would've been able to resolve the issue. I absolutely believe social workers need to be integrated into police departments, and respond alongside cops to mental health calls where the guy is threatening himself or his family. If the social worker can't help the guy, then and only then should the cops intervene. Or better yet, don't have cops respond at all for calls that aren't immediately violent unless it turns that way.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:54
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ded posted:cops love slashing tires I mean, so do I...but I get paid for it, and there's no aspect of property damage or civil rights violation involved
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Apr 14, 2021 20:57
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Flying_Crab posted:Or better yet, don't have cops respond at all for calls that aren't immediately violent unless it turns that way. Calling the cops on the cops won’t help at all, man.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:17
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It's nice that they make these lists, I keep forgetting the names there have been so many. https://www.startribune.com/every-police-involved-death-in-minnesota-since-2000/502088871/ I had to look up Philando Castile, I forgot his name completely.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:23
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we've spent decades telling cops that theyre a hammer and now we're wondering why they view every problem as a nail. disarm them, dismiss them and keep tabs on them for the rest of their lives.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:32
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cops wear military fatigues and some podunk towns have light armored vehicles if not straight up tanks in their motorcade I hope it happens, just don't see it being soon
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Apr 14, 2021 21:47
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That Works posted:Decimate the police for abolishment plus bad FTP pun.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:01
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FrozenVent posted:Pilots everywhere except Panama, and even then, are only onboard in an advisory capacity. what happens with the US Navy going through the canal? im guessin that "baksheesh" doesn't fly? DC just keeps the Apaches coming?
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Apr 14, 2021 22:09
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20 Blunts posted:what happens with the US Navy going through the canal? im guessin that "baksheesh" doesn't fly? DC just keeps the Apaches coming? Command ballcap and carton of Marlboros.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:13
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It says something about the level of danger the police pose that we had 25,000+ troops at the inauguration, apparently largely to guarantee the loyalty of the police, and there was serious thought that it wasn't enough military presence. Disloyal internal security forces capable of going toe-to-toe with divisions is beyond failed state level stuff.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:07
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20 Blunts posted:what happens with the US Navy going through the canal? im guessin that "baksheesh" doesn't fly? DC just keeps the Apaches coming? This is why Fat Leonard existed and got away with stuff; it's difficult to formally request bribe money in the DoD.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:25
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SchnorkIes posted:It says something about the level of danger the police pose that we had 25,000+ troops at the inauguration, apparently largely to guarantee the loyalty of the police, and there was serious thought that it wasn't enough military presence. Disloyal internal security forces capable of going toe-to-toe with divisions is beyond failed state level stuff. A quick Google says that we spend like... 1/6th or 1/7th of our defense budget on the police each year ($100bn* in police funding vs whatever the defense budget might be but I’m guessing between $6-700bn). I would guess we spend less than $100bn of our defense budget on actual, tangible defense. I am pulling this theory completely out of the thin air that comes out of my rear end. *number does not include incarceration, which is apparently $80bn. I would reckon we spend about the same on actual and tangible defense of the American people that we do locking up the American people. I’d be interested in reading a comparative study.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:04
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Legit shipping companies have a process for facilitation payments. Every few years you get a manager from outside shipping who loses his poo poo at the idea of charterers victualling and decides to cancel all courtesy gifts. This kills the KPI and the career.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:04
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There’s a reason the foreign corrupt practices act is “don’t bribe unless you have to”
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Apr 15, 2021 00:08
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FrozenVent posted:Legit shipping companies have a process for facilitation payments. you keep justifying bribes
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Apr 15, 2021 00:18
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PookBear posted:you keep justifying bribes “Grease payments” are not bribes according to the US federal government
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Apr 15, 2021 00:22
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PookBear posted:you keep justifying bribes What does it matter how foreigners run their business so long as we can still profitably do business with them?
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Apr 15, 2021 00:25
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SchnorkIes posted:What does it matter how foreigners run their business so long as we can still profitably do business with them? did you seriously ask what's wrong with bribes
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Apr 15, 2021 00:29
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PookBear posted:did you seriously ask what's wrong with bribes Yeah I mean if they're predictable it's just a cost of doing business, like any other fee or toll, just with a different infrastructure behind it. Why does it matter if it goes to some guy vs some govt you have no say in or control over?
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Apr 15, 2021 00:31
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