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euphronius posted:That is the point of acting yeah. theatre history knower here: it was likely a monk or priest, given that masks were still in use when the romans came through, and when the romans did their own plays they used masks too, up until the early church banned the theatre entirely for its sinful associations, in the process basically absorbing the theatre into itself as monks and nuns would still study old plays to learn rhetoric, sometimes write their own, and eventually write ones to be performed in and around church festivals to teach people the bible. by that point masks were well and truly gone, but that's also an extremely long period of centuries. that said, not everyone was masked in every performance also; though i take your initial question to be pointing to when masks were abandoned as a whole as opposed to simply being not used for some styles of performance, which was the practice for just as long. some types of comedy were supposedly maskless as a rule, for example. as with everything else ancient, of course, there are a lot of gaps and debates in this because so, so little survives. the remaining half of aristotle's poetics is at the very top of my "please someone discover this" list
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Apr 15, 2021 08:22
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Latin chat has me flashing back to Ecce Romani again ECCE SEXTE CAVDAM MOVENT !
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Apr 15, 2021 14:23
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I'm feeling like this guy's accent is too Italian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj5vg2fjOtk
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Apr 15, 2021 23:11
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If you want bad Italian accents in your youtube cooking shows, check out Joshua Weissman. Max Miller is genuinely great and he just gave up his career at Disney to cook weird ancient/historic recipes for a living now.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:35
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Please don't subject yourself to Joshua, he's a good chef, but an absolutely terrible personality on video.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZ08y8d7RY only true Roman cooking channel i know of.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:44
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Third Roman cooking channel.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:50
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm feeling like this guy's accent is too Italian. i bet slow-simmered smoked lard dipped in vinegar is pretty delicious tbh
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Apr 16, 2021 00:28
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Not scoring and Frying pork fat just seems so weird to me, It's like the way you should always do it. But someone in the Japanese Coking thread told me they don't?
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Apr 16, 2021 02:27
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I appreciated this.
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Apr 16, 2021 02:34
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Ok, I've finally made it to the end of the thread and as nobody seems to have mentioned it previously, I was wondering if anyone has read and has an opinion on this book, A Fatal Thing Happened on the way to the Forum, by Emma Southon, about how the Romans understood the concept of murder? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fatal-Thing-Happened-Way-Forum/dp/1786078376 I thought it was really interesting but that the author was extremely Online (if you've read it, you'll know what I mean), to the extent that I became a little dubious about their academic credibility generally. Or am I just out of touch and is this the style that contemporary history books are written in?
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Apr 19, 2021 10:48
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I haven't read that book but I saw the author had posted this on Twitter and judging by the comments all I could think was is it possible they weren't reacting to the swearing because they were prudes but because it was distracting and annoying? https://twitter.com/NuclearTeeth/status/1382706047324975110 Grevling fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 10:54
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How did romans swear in latin anyway? I'm picturing a ton of dicks in butts.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfxzQjM0GtA
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Apr 19, 2021 22:12
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How did romans swear in latin anyway? I'm picturing a ton of dicks in butts. 'Pedicabo et irrumabo te' if you're classy
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Apr 20, 2021 00:25
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feedmegin posted:'Pedicabo et irrumabo te' if you're classy That's not swearing, that's a rape threat. An actual example of a common Latin swear is "mehercule" ("by Hercules!"). Edit: And you're not even quoting it right! The actual line from Catullus is "pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo" - you misremembered the pronouns. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 00:41
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Would anyone know anything about kingship (or queenship) as a sacred role, where the fate of the ruler is seen as tied to the land they rule? I remember reading something about African (I think) tribes where a fat king was good, as that meant the land was productive, whereas a thin king would indicate something was wrong, and the king was usually killed as a corrective measure. I'm also sure there was something about a king ruling for a limited time before being ritually slain, but I might be confusing that with Slaine the Horned God (the comic).
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Apr 20, 2021 05:58
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The first one pops up in Arthurian myth. Try searching for 'fisher king'.
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Apr 20, 2021 06:15
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Elissimpark posted:Would anyone know anything about kingship (or queenship) as a sacred role, where the fate of the ruler is seen as tied to the land they rule? I remember reading something about African (I think) tribes where a fat king was good, as that meant the land was productive, whereas a thin king would indicate something was wrong, and the king was usually killed as a corrective measure. Lots of bog bodies are presumed to be kings or nobles sacrificed in hard times: https://www.irishcentral.com/news/bog-bodies-are-kings-sacrificed-by-celts-says-expert-129289548-237410131 E: I remember hearing about temp symbolic kings in Celtic culture too, but not finding it and not sure of the exact context. Or maybe Sumer, so there you go. Anyone? Otteration fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 06:18
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quote:"Sucking a king’s nipples was a gesture of submission in ancient Ireland," My ancestors were weird.
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Apr 20, 2021 07:22
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The Gaya statelets in southern Korea had the same thing going on; rulers would be held directly responsible and killed during famines and disasters. In a slightly less direct sense, I don't think that's actually such a rare concept in premodern societies though is it? The later European divine right "we're just better than you no matter what, deal with it" thing is maybe even more of an exception, compared to the rulers being held at least somewhat responsible? In Joseon Korea while they weren't straight up sacrificed for it, legitimacy got shaky during times of drought and iirc at least one king was deposed for at least somewhat related reasons. The entire Chinese concept of the Mandate of Heaven is also broadly based on the same concept; Heaven shows its approval/disapproval of the ruling house, in large part by how the land is doing / disasters / astronomical phenomena etc.
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Apr 20, 2021 07:26
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Elissimpark posted:Would anyone know anything about kingship (or queenship) as a sacred role, where the fate of the ruler is seen as tied to the land they rule? I remember reading something about African (I think) tribes where a fat king was good, as that meant the land was productive, whereas a thin king would indicate something was wrong, and the king was usually killed as a corrective measure. Arguably the most important component of being a Maya ruler was being able to successfully petition the gods for rains and good weather so corn can be grown. The bloodletting rituals are mostly about this, and are a pretty major component in Maya art. Stingray spines which are a one of the more common implements used for it are a fairly common archaeological find. It's one of the reasons everything went to poo poo when they had a major drought. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 07:44
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:My ancestors were weird. The Celts apparently weren't afraid of the old in out either: "Classical literature records the views of the Celts' neighbours, though historians are not sure how much relation to reality these had. According to Aristotle, most "belligerent nations" were strongly influenced by their women, but the Celts were unusual because their men openly preferred male lovers (Politics II 1269b).[125] H. D. Rankin in Celts and the Classical World notes that "Athenaeus echoes this comment (603a) and so does Ammianus (30.9). It seems to be the general opinion of antiquity."[126] In book XIII of his Deipnosophists, the Roman Greek rhetorician and grammarian Athenaeus, repeating assertions made by Diodorus Siculus in the 1st century BC (Bibliotheca historica 5:32), wrote that Celtic women were beautiful but that the men preferred to sleep together. Diodorus went further, stating that "the young men will offer themselves to strangers and are insulted if the offer is refused". Rankin argues that the ultimate source of these assertions is likely to be Posidonius and speculates that these authors may be recording male "bonding rituals".[127] The sexual freedom of women in Britain was noted by Cassius Dio: ... a very witty remark is reported to have been made by the wife of Argentocoxus, a Caledonian, to Julia Augusta. When the empress was jesting with her, after the treaty, about the free intercourse of her sex with men in Britain, she replied: "We fulfill the demands of nature in a much better way than do you Roman women; for we consort openly with the best men, whereas you let yourselves be debauched in secret by the vilest." Such was the retort of the British woman.[128]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts#Gender_and_sexual_norms
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Apr 20, 2021 07:48
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The Celts must have been super loving gay for even a Greek to say "wow, they're really gay"
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Apr 20, 2021 07:54
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Telsa Cola posted:Arguably the most important one of the reasons everything went to poo poo when they had a major drought. Yeah, an an interesting thesis might be that ritual noble sacrifice might be more effective at maintaining a society vs. outright collapse/revolution when the poop hits the fan. Especially in Egypt and the Mayan states were the leader is actually responsible for feeding the peons.
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Apr 20, 2021 07:56
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cheetah7071 posted:The Celts must have been super loving gay for even a Greek to say "wow, they're really gay" Course it always depends on who the audiences were for the reporting authors in time and politics, what the authors goals were, and how much the authors like homos or not. I share your opinion though. 
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Apr 20, 2021 08:02
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The Lone Badger posted:Try searching for 'fisher king'. Thanks, I knew there was a term for it. Otteration posted:Lots of bog bodies are presumed to be kings or nobles sacrificed in hard times: Ooh, that's pretty cool. I came across the concept of three-fold death when trying to find this kind of thing, and it seems they were very literal about it. Koramei posted:In a slightly less direct sense, I don't think that's actually such a rare concept in premodern societies though is it? The later European divine right "we're just better than you no matter what, deal with it" thing is maybe even more of an exception, compared to the rulers being held at least somewhat responsible? I think you're right and I feel the abstraction of power comes with the increasing size of a kingdom or empire.
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Apr 20, 2021 08:04
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Otteration posted:Yeah, an an interesting thesis might be that ritual noble sacrifice might be more effective at maintaining a society vs. outright collapse/revolution when the poop hits the fan. In situations where the problem with the feeding of the peons is outside the ability of the leader to do anything about (drought, Nile floods fluctuating) it just stacks a political crisis atop the famine?
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Apr 20, 2021 08:09
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Grevling posted:I haven't read that book but I saw the author had posted this on Twitter and judging by the comments all I could think was is it possible they weren't reacting to the swearing because they were prudes but because it was distracting and annoying? I just read through the first ten pages or so of the Amazon preview, and the closest thing I could find to swearing was the phrase "senators took to stabbing the hell out of each other". I had to ctrl-F to find the word "gently caress" which is used twice in the entire chapter, which is one-ninth of the book. (Although apparently I'm looking at the Bowdlerised-for-Americans version): https://twitter.com/NuclearTeeth/status/1382715723441668107 But still, I'd fall heavily on "they were prudes" with an extra sprinkling of misogyny. Also, the replies I see to that tweet you posted are all pretty positive and supportive. But you do know that Twitter tunes what you see based on what it thinks it knows about your personality and leanings?
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Apr 20, 2021 08:10
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Koramei posted:The later European divine right "we're just better than you no matter what, deal with it" thing is maybe even more of an exception, compared to the rulers being held at least somewhat responsible? Of course, didn't work out for Louie XVI (theory is he mismanaged debt from aid to the US revolution) or Charles I (mismanaged everything, misjudged the future of politics, and overspent personnaly). Maybe the vote of no confidence is the new bog sacrifice? E: the us revolution clarified. Otteration fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 08:16
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I'd prefer they'd kept the bog sacrifice, tbh.
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Apr 20, 2021 08:25
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Jehde posted:Max Miller is genuinely great and he just gave up his career at Disney to cook weird ancient/historic recipes for a living now. I'd been suspecting Mormon, but Disney checks out.
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Apr 20, 2021 08:25
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aphid_licker posted:In situations where the problem with the feeding of the peons is outside the ability of the leader to do anything about (drought, Nile floods fluctuating) it just stacks a political crisis atop the famine? The Pharaohs taxed via grain, lots of it, and redistributed during the dry season. They usually knew what the Nile was going to do next year, and mostly got lucky because of extreme productivity most of the time, even if they spent a bunch of grain on the great pyramid or hoarded it for Ramses II giant armies. But yeah, they had responsibility. "Ineffective Pharaohs": https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/invasion-ancient-egypt-may-have-actually-been-immigrant-uprising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer
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Apr 20, 2021 08:43
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Also, the replies I see to that tweet you posted are all pretty positive and supportive. But you do know that Twitter tunes what you see based on what it thinks it knows about your personality and leanings? There are only 25 replies so I don't think there's enough to curate. Those were the ones that made me suspect the author's style of writing is very annoying and "reddit". But if people enjoy that sort of thing that's fine. Grevling fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 08:48
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aphid_licker posted:In situations where the problem with the feeding of the peons is outside the ability of the leader to do anything about (drought, Nile floods fluctuating) it just stacks a political crisis atop the famine?  What do you mean outside of the leader's ability? They just must have not performed the ritual properly.
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Apr 20, 2021 09:02
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I used to work in a casino and this reminds me of a round of executive lay offs when table game numbers weren't doing so well or hadn't increased as promised by said executives. Like they had power over probability itself.
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Apr 20, 2021 09:13
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Elissimpark posted:I used to work in a casino and this reminds me of a round of executive lay offs when table game numbers weren't doing so well or hadn't increased as promised by said executives. Like they had power over probability itself. Koramei posted:
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Apr 20, 2021 10:12
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gently caress you forums
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Apr 20, 2021 10:27
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Grevling posted:There are only 25 replies so I don't think there's enough to curate. Those were the ones that made me suspect the author's style of writing is very annoying and "reddit". But if people enjoy that sort of thing that's fine. Trying to gauge an author's style by not reading their works and instead using Twitter comments like an augury seems like the most terminally online thing ever. Are you sure you're not a Redditor yourself?
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Apr 20, 2021 10:44
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Elissimpark posted:I used to work in a casino and this reminds me of a round of executive lay offs when table game numbers weren't doing so well or hadn't increased as promised by said executives. Like they had power over probability itself. "Look, I'm obviously not saying you should cheat or fudge the numbers here. But we need to show a year-on-year increase. What if some amphorae were accidentally left in the grain cellars so the level shows higher?"
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