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Sky Shadowing posted:I think by the end of it it's going to be open to interpretation who was Azor Ahai, Jon or Dany. Oh absolutly, there's never gonna be a definitive answer, and there's a lot of possible contenders beyond just those two. But the fans do have a mild case of apophenia. Brienne is Azor Ahai. Victarian is Azor Ahai. The Nights Watch are Azor Ahai. Aegon, other Aegon, Victarion. gently caress, the Hound is probably Azor Ahai.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:01
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It's us, the reader. We are Azor Ahai
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Apr 12, 2021 21:12
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The real Azor Ahai was the friends we
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Apr 12, 2021 21:14
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Pattonesque posted:I thought Hafthor did a decent job but the problem with him as the mountain is that his face is just kind of friendly-looking. like he's obviously a loving humongous and monstrously strong guy but like God yeah, Hafthor is such an instantly likeable guy, it is kind of a hard ask to take him seriously as such a hateable character as Gregor Clegane.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:My favorite part of the mountain saga is how Haftor emphasises the sentence "her head in like this" in a weird way and unnatural way that would have clearly been re-recorded had show been run by someone who gave a gently caress. The second and third Mountains were dubbed over by someone else. The second Mountain has a voice that's much higher pitched than you'd assume for a guy that size and his dubbed voice is the same voice Halfthor has when he's the Mountain (I doubt he'd be able to speak without his accent). Xealot posted:S2 Mountain in particular was so jarringly different I didn't even understand it was supposed to be the same guy right away. I'm in the same boat and I'm pretty sure in previous incarnations of the thread people said the same. I do know the thread discussed how Halfthor looked way too friendly to sell the Mountain when he first appeared. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 21:23
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Oh absolutly, there's never gonna be a definitive answer, and there's a lot of possible contenders beyond just those two. But the fans do have a mild case of apophenia. Brienne is Azor Ahai. Victarian is Azor Ahai. The Nights Watch are Azor Ahai. Aegon, other Aegon, Victarion. gently caress, the Hound is probably Azor Ahai. I think, expecting as I am the reveal that Dany is Jon's sister, given that Rhaegar seemed certain that TPTWP would have "the song of ice and fire", the fact that Jon and Dany are the children of Rhaegar and Lyanna and therefore the only two known unions of Stark (Ice) and Fire (Targaryen), it will be clear that it was one of the two. Or, as I said, BOTH of the two. Or that Azor Ahai and The Prince That Was Promised are two separate entities, usually grouped together under one, and Jon is AA and Dany is TPTWP. Or that each are "half" of the entity (twins would make this sensible), and only together can they bring the Dawn.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:24
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nine-gear crow posted:God yeah, Hafthor is such an instantly likeable guy, it is kind of a hard ask to take him seriously as such a hateable character as Gregor Clegane. He's also very much into domestic violence.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:43
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not a bot posted:He's also very much into domestic violence. Goddammit.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:54
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Xealot posted:Goddammit. Milkshake duck all over again.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:56
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Sky Shadowing posted:I think, expecting as I am the reveal that Dany is Jon's sister, given that Rhaegar seemed certain that TPTWP would have "the song of ice and fire", the fact that Jon and Dany are the children of Rhaegar and Lyanna and therefore the only two known unions of Stark (Ice) and Fire (Targaryen), it will be clear that it was one of the two. Or, as I said, BOTH of the two. But Rhaegar said the dragon must have THREE heads, and he already had two children. He says the song of Ice and Fire is his first son's song. He talks with Elia about this in Dany's vision in the House of the Undying. He would have hosed up his own prophecy if he had a 4th child with Lyanna after Dany was born.
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Apr 12, 2021 23:41
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Sanguinia posted:But Rhaegar said the dragon must have THREE heads, and he already had two children. He says the song of Ice and Fire is his first son's song. He talks with Elia about this in Dany's vision in the House of the Undying. He would have hosed up his own prophecy if he had a 4th child with Lyanna after Dany was born. He was also convinced TPTWP was the PRINCE, specifically, not Prince Or Princess. We know this for a fact; he was communicating heavily with Aemon, who looked into the actual translation when he heard about Dany and realized "poo poo we hosed up we thought it was Prince but that word in the original tongue has no gender." If he had a girl, he may have had the conclusion that he hadn't yet had "The Prince That Was Promised" with the "Song of Ice and Fire" yet; a male child with Lyanna. Reason to attempt a fourth. Alternatively... he and Lyanna could just have been having sex, and she gets pregnant again. This is setting aside the alternative, simplest explanation, which is that Jon and Dany are twins. GRRM has said Cersei is Dany's foil. She and Jon being twins would make a reasonable assumption that Jaime and Jon are foils.
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Apr 13, 2021 00:36
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Sky Shadowing posted:He was also convinced TPTWP was the PRINCE, specifically, not Prince Or Princess. We know this for a fact; he was communicating heavily with Aemon, who looked into the actual translation when he heard about Dany and realized "poo poo we hosed up we thought it was Prince but that word in the original tongue has no gender." I had thought of that, but it seems impossible that she could have gotten to Essos with her brother if Ned had found her along with Jon. Would he not have taken in both babies? It's like he would have known she'd grow up to have silver hair, and he took that same risk with Jon. And who would have delivered her? The Daynes, and returning Arthur's sword was a cover for delivering Dany?
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Apr 13, 2021 00:47
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It's funny to reminisce on this show's few great moments that haven't been retroactively ruined, such as that time when one scary actor who we never saw again memorably yelled out "sword!!!"
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Apr 13, 2021 01:25
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Sanguinia posted:I had thought of that, but it seems impossible that she could have gotten to Essos with her brother if Ned had found her along with Jon. Would he not have taken in both babies? It's like he would have known she'd grow up to have silver hair, and he took that same risk with Jon. And who would have delivered her? The Daynes, and returning Arthur's sword was a cover for delivering Dany? It's the general theory that Dany was fostered by the Daynes, or at least in Dorne. Lemongate, GRRM somewhat bashing us over the head with the fact that lemons do not grow in Braavos, that Dany's memories of her childhood don't add up with what she thinks was her childhood. Plus, babies do have hair, and her eyes would already be violet. Not hard for Ned to take a glance at her and say "okay this one is too obviously Targaryen for me to pretend she's my bastard. Gotta find somewhere else to stash her." Ashara Dayne and Dany have the exact same eyes (and if not for "howling forever alone" and my new belief that Jon killing Dany results in her death-warging into the 'flaming sword' that is Drogon I'd probably be on team Rhaegar + Ashara = Dany). As for how she got with Viserys... not sure. Probably wasn't the best idea for her to be left with a family of known Targaryen loyalists, a woman who had spent an awful lot of time with Rhaegar, whose brother was the Prince's best friend- Ashara Dayne (lady-in-waiting to Elia Martell, part of her court). She gets spotted, they think, "she must be Rhaegar's bastard daughter with Lady Ashara, let's abduct her and pretend she's Viserys's sister so he can sell her for a marriage alliance." (trueborn sister being much more valuable than bastard niece) Or, a thought I've had lately, is that Ned delivered her to Dragonstone personally. Since, obviously, there's probably no place better for an obviously Targaryen baby than with the Targaryens-in-exile. He didn't give her to Viserys; he gave her to Rhaella, her grandmother, who was well known to be a Good Woman. She died in childbirth (maybe), something Ned did not anticipate, and she fell into the hands of the plotters. (If this is true they hide them in Dorne, and lie that Dany is Rhaella's daughter so as not to offend their hosts, the Martells. They don't kill little girls in Dorne, after all (BOO SHOW) but that doesn't mean that the Martells would be particularly keen to see Rhaegar's daughter with Lyanna sitting on the Iron Throne, or shelter her, after he "betrayed" Elia). "Splitting the heirs" is not at all unthinkable, it seems to be standard operating procedure. Luwin's first thought for Bran and Rickon is to tell Osha, "split Robb's heirs."
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Apr 13, 2021 01:36
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Sky Shadowing posted:It's the general theory that Dany was fostered by the Daynes, or at least in Dorne. Lemongate, GRRM somewhat bashing us over the head with the fact that lemons do not grow in Braavos, that Dany's memories of her childhood don't add up with what she thinks was her childhood. I ascribe to the theory that this is explained by both her and Viserys being delivered to the Sealord of Braavos, and that the Lemon Tree was part of his menagerie (which we see surrounded by trees on the map in World of Ice and Fire) and might have even explicitly been a gift of House Martel to bring him into the restoration conspiracy, to which he provided those three Dragon Eggs.
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Apr 13, 2021 02:06
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I always kinda liked the theory that Dany was the (bastard) daughter of Ashara Dayne and Ned Stark. It answers a semi-mystery from the first book that has yet to be addressed to some extent, which is why Ned seemed so intent on saving Dany from Robert's wrath. That might not seem like such a mystery at first glance, but Ned actually goes very far on Dany's behalf - as far as resigning his position as Hand of the King (and effectively endangering his family) entirely on for her sake. Ned is honorable and principled, and he was appropriately disgusted at the Lannisters and the death of Rhaegar's children; but I'm not sure if that goes far enough in terms of explaining Ned's actions on her behalf. It's definitely a bit out there though, especially as it would mean that Dany's really a 'fake Targaryen' which admittedly doesn't seem terrible likely. The Daynes are a pretty fascinating house, though - not least because they seem to greatly resemble the Valyrians in terms of their physical appearance - with Ashara Dayne supposedly sharing a resemblance with Dany.
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Apr 13, 2021 02:13
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Sanguinia posted:I ascribe to the theory that this is explained by both her and Viserys being delivered to the Sealord of Braavos, and that the Lemon Tree was part of his menagerie (which we see surrounded by trees on the map in World of Ice and Fire) and might have even explicitly been a gift of House Martel to bring him into the restoration conspiracy, to which he provided those three Dragon Eggs. I have to admit that I can't get on board entirely with this theory. She'd probably remember the menagerie of animals - including the velociraptors - not to mention the hundreds of servants and the lemon tree in question being in a glass conservatory along with other impossibly exotic plants. And all the riches and luxury. The house with the red door is described in fairly simple, pastoral terms - it really doesn't quite work for me that she was really staying in a palace within a massive city and somehow failed to mention that context or forgot.
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Apr 13, 2021 02:17
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kaworu posted:I have to admit that I can't get on board entirely with this theory. She'd probably remember the menagerie of animals - including the velociraptors - not to mention the hundreds of servants and the lemon tree in question being in a glass conservatory along with other impossibly exotic plants. And all the riches and luxury. The house with the red door is described in fairly simple, pastoral terms - it really doesn't quite work for me that she was really staying in a palace within a massive city and somehow failed to mention that context or forgot. Preston Jacobs basically ripped the idea to shreds in a humorous fashion here: https://youtu.be/RUFEBEXcsIo
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Apr 13, 2021 02:47
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kaworu posted:I always kinda liked the theory that Dany was the (bastard) daughter of Ashara Dayne and Ned Stark. It answers a semi-mystery from the first book that has yet to be addressed to some extent, which is why Ned seemed so intent on saving Dany from Robert's wrath. That might not seem like such a mystery at first glance, but Ned actually goes very far on Dany's behalf - as far as resigning his position as Hand of the King (and effectively endangering his family) entirely on for her sake. Ned is honorable and principled, and he was appropriately disgusted at the Lannisters and the death of Rhaegar's children; but I'm not sure if that goes far enough in terms of explaining Ned's actions on her behalf. I don't want to live in a world where Ashara Dayne didn't have a perfect, sappy romance with Howland Reed at the Tournament of Harrenhal, thus resulting in the birth of Meera, and thus leaving no time window for her to have a baby with Ned.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:06
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Jaime is Azor Ahai and he's going to die in the north killing the night king after knighting Brienne.
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Apr 13, 2021 06:42
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Remember how D&D made Missandei translate the prophecy as "the prince or princess who was promised" Remember how the prophecy ended up not mattering at all
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Apr 13, 2021 06:49
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Van Dis posted:Remember how D&D made Missandei translate the prophecy as "the prince or princess who was promised" Turns out the correct translation was "the cousin of the prince or princess who was promised"
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Apr 13, 2021 06:55
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Well you know, Bran is someone's valonqar.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:10
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Sky Shadowing posted:It's the general theory that Dany was fostered by the Daynes, or at least in Dorne. Lemongate, GRRM somewhat bashing us over the head with the fact that lemons do not grow in Braavos, that Dany's memories of her childhood don't add up with what she thinks was her childhood. Not sure I buy this... but it does add another layer to Ned counseling Robert not to kill Dany
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Apr 13, 2021 07:22
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Zaphod42 posted:Not sure I buy this... but it does add another layer to Ned counseling Robert not to kill Dany quote:"Unspeakable?" the king roared. "What Aerys did to your brother Brandon was unspeakable. The way your lord father died, that was unspeakable. And Rhaegar … how many times do you think he raped your sister? How many hundreds of times?" His voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him. The king jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at Ned. "I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves." Just me or does that kind of read like Ned might be bragging a little bit? It's not "you can't get your hands on these ones", it's Daenerys. Always Daenerys. Specifically Daenerys. It's kind of my read on the choice that Ned, to keep her safe, left Daenerys with a woman that could pass as her mother (Ashara Dayne), and Dany had a happy childhood at a house with a red door, surrounded by large green fields (of which no place in Braavos is), and a lemon tree outside her bedroom window (and Braavos is the completely wrong climate for lemons). Something happened to Ashara where she died ("child of three", "daughter of death" - child of three dead parents, Lyanna, Rhaegar, foster/adoptive mom Ashara) and Daenerys was moved to the HWTRD. When all this went down, Ned had to make the choice of bringing Daenerys to Winterfell- a move that would certainly announce her true parentage to Westeros at large, and everyone knows Bobby B would demand Ned turn over Jon and Daenerys so he could introduce their faces to his warhammer, a demand that Ned would certainly defy and spark Eddard's Rebellion, a rebellion that Ned could not win, and Robert in his wrath would very likely kill not just Ned, Jon, and Dany, but Robb, Sansa, and the other kids (depending on who has been born so far). Ned made the choice to not bring Dany to Winterfell after this. That not only his family, but she, would be safer in Essos.
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Apr 13, 2021 13:34
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Sanguinia posted:I don't want to live in a world where Ashara Dayne didn't have a perfect, sappy romance with Howland Reed at the Tournament of Harrenhal, thus resulting in the birth of Meera, and thus leaving no time window for her to have a baby with Ned. hey remember when Howland Reed was the only person still alive who knows and can confirm the truth at the Tower of Joy? Remember how his kids were both major characters for a few seasons? Remember how Bran went "lol bye Meera I don't even know you" and she hosed off back to their weird moving castle and out of the narrative forever?
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Apr 13, 2021 18:36
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Remember when they left Bran out of the show for a year because training montages are boring, but as soon as he was back we got a training montage anyway?
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Apr 13, 2021 18:39
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And the actor was like two feet taller.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:02
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Solice Kirsk posted:And the actor was like two feet taller. It became physically impossible for Hodor to carry Bran around anymore because Isaac Hempstead-Wright wound up being like about half a foot shorter than Kristian Nairn by the time they were done.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:10
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Heard the book will be next year. But heard that for the past 6 years, so I'd prefer if George would just be quiet at this point.
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Apr 14, 2021 07:14
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Last year he said it would be this year, and last year he couldn't go or do anything besides write the goddamn book so...
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Apr 14, 2021 20:45
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I just remembered in the loot train battle -- which was p. good for the most part, lots of good beats, very few people acting stupidly for inexplicable reasons -- Dany decides to burn the wagons carrying all the Tyrells' food and gold and poo poo instead of just like, letting her massive army of the best light cavalry in the world just capture it. Real amateur poo poo!
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Apr 15, 2021 04:18
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Even more amateur poo poo is that the burning of a whole bunch of supplies in a very war-torn and exhausted country also (ostensibly lol) experiencing a very long winter has no impact whatsoever on either side of the war.
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Apr 15, 2021 08:59
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Who knew the inevitable march of climate change brought on by the hubris of man could be beat with a 20ft horizontal leap and a dagger to the *ehehehehehe* ghoulies.
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Apr 15, 2021 09:07
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Also that the only people to suffer any consequences for preventing it were the ones who cared. Cersei just said "global death isn't my problem, I can keep on living my life like I don't care!" And it all worked out for her... in that regard.
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Apr 15, 2021 15:38
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Wait, is this the boomer thread?
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Apr 15, 2021 16:03
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What I'm getting here is that climate change is real and happening, but it's not worth worrying about because it will fall apart in the 8th season. How many seasons has climate change been going on?
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Apr 15, 2021 17:03
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Climate change looks cool and imposing from a distance but close up it's all make up and lighting.
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Apr 15, 2021 17:44
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Also despite eight seasons predicting the coldest, longest winter in memory, the winter was the shortest winter on record, lasting approximately two months or so. In fact the creeping climate change has been so roundly defeated that green shoots are shown north of the wall as Jon and the wildlings march through. In the industry that's called "subversion"
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Apr 15, 2021 17:48
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to be fair the saying is "winter is coming," not "winter will be here for a longer than normal period of time"
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Apr 15, 2021 17:53
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