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If you for example make it so that speeding was punishable by a week in the local jail that would still have racial and class biased fiscal consequences, as a wealthy individual not being able to work for a week is no where near the crippling act it could be for someone at the poverty line. Equitable punishment is very hard to codify.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:54
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Also the police do nothing to stop traffic crime anyway. They don't keep the highways from being Fast and Furious sequals any more than the NYPD keep NYC from being some escape from new york thunderdome. The police don't stop crime.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:55
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M_Gargantua posted:If you for example make it so that speeding was punishable by a week in the local jail that would still have racial and class biased fiscal consequences, as a wealthy individual not being able to work for a week is no where near the crippling act it could be for someone at the poverty line. There would be a ton of money to fix up jails suddenly available if you did that though.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:58
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I don't think further incarceration is the answer lol goddamn Like poo poo we already have more prisoners than any other country.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:59
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M_Gargantua posted:If you for example make it so that speeding was punishable by a week in the local jail that would still have racial and class biased fiscal consequences, as a wealthy individual not being able to work for a week is no where near the crippling act it could be for someone at the poverty line. Yeah, that's what I'm having a hard time with. We can't throw everyone in jail for a night if they speed, we would need more jails (which defeats the purpose). Money is a dumb answer, the wealthy don't care. We want some of these laws to continue, I totally want the cops watching out for kids walking home from school, but I also don't care about the guy doing 5-10 over on the interstate. I really don't see how to fix the entire issue without inventing new and horrible ways to treat people. Maybe force cops to have their citation (and fine) distribution match the demographics for the area? It still doesn't fix the wealth issue, but might get more people engaged demanding some form of reform with fines/sentencing?
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Apr 15, 2021 21:01
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Chicago video came out. They murdered a kid. Don't watch it. Its exactly as bad as your imagination
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Apr 15, 2021 21:01
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ASAPI posted:Yeah, that's what I'm having a hard time with. We can't throw everyone in jail for a night if they speed, we would need more jails (which defeats the purpose). Money is a dumb answer, the wealthy don't care. We want some of these laws to continue, I totally want the cops watching out for kids walking home from school, but I also don't care about the guy doing 5-10 over on the interstate. Maybe get rid of the carceral state that we spend so much money on in order to have cheap slave labor
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Apr 15, 2021 21:02
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M_Gargantua posted:Chicago video came out. They murdered a kid. I saw a very small clip, it looked very bad.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:03
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ASAPI posted:Yeah, that's what I'm having a hard time with. We can't throw everyone in jail for a night if they speed, we would need more jails (which defeats the purpose). Money is a dumb answer, the wealthy don't care. We want some of these laws to continue, I totally want the cops watching out for kids walking home from school, but I also don't care about the guy doing 5-10 over on the interstate. The way to fix motor vehicle violations is to repeal the laws for most of them, as they are useless and only selectively enforced against minorities at the whim of the patrol officer. Also investing in mass transit so there are less cars on the road means less speeding and less automotive accidents.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:03
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M_Gargantua posted:If you for example make it so that speeding was punishable by a week in the local jail that would still have racial and class biased fiscal consequences, as a wealthy individual not being able to work for a week is no where near the crippling act it could be for someone at the poverty line. Sweden or something does percentage of income for fines. Some big hockey player ate a 5 figure speeding ticket a few years ago. The real famous people or buddies of the cops will still get off but it’s a start. E: Its Finland https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ Naramyth fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 21:07
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M_Gargantua posted:The way to fix motor vehicle violations is to repeal the laws for most of them, as they are useless and only selectively enforced against minorities at the whim of the patrol officer. I wonder how much we can peel away before it causes more harm than good? I'm having a hard time finding a study that looks at this. The only similar thing I've heard of is that intersection in the UK (I think?) that got rid of the traffic lights and made it a traffic circle. Is there a country anyone is familiar with that works out fine with this? (other than active warzones?)
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Apr 15, 2021 21:09
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I hope this doesn't fall under the pointed Capitalism / corruption back and forth. If so I apologize.wins32767 posted:Uh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist) This article is a few years old and the divide has considerably worsened since then. https://inequality.org/great-divide/america-2018-more-gilded-america-1918/ quote:Indeed, no matter which of 1918’s titans of wealth you consider, the corresponding slice of America’s 2018 elite controls a greater portion of the country’s wealth.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:11
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ASAPI posted:I wonder how much we can peel away before it causes more harm than good? I'm having a hard time finding a study that looks at this. Local municipalities (at least in Pennsylvania) are usually on the hook for signal maintenance and are generally in favor of removing/not including them in new construction projects whenever possible.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:12
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ASAPI posted:I wonder how much we can peel away before it causes more harm than good? I'm having a hard time finding a study that looks at this. Theres a traffic engineers thread somewhere in these forums. Theres a lot of stuff on human behaviors in there that should answer a lot of your questions as they pertain to vehicles safely traveling on asphalt. I dont think they go into enforcement or control measures though.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:12
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Do you or anyone you know deliberately drive the speed limit? Everywhere across the US i've ever driven the cars drive at the speed of traffic. That's constrained by a few things 1) Most peoples cars get a little squirrely above 90mph to the point where its uncomfortable to drive that fast continuously 2) Above 75 fuel economy starts to tank as air resistance and rolling resistance rack up 3) People don't want to hit each other and naturally slow down in denser traffic 4) The modern wide grid abominations through suburbia (thanks pheonix!) are the main culprit of people doing 90 next to children playing, which again nobody respects the speed limit on. Hence why despite postings of 65mph or whatever most people are doing 75-80 on your average day, even if the road is empty. Everybody is taught to respect the signage but nobody actually does.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:16
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James O'Keefe / Project Veritas got the boot. https://twitter.com/ALCinnamonGirl/status/1382788276436733955
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Apr 15, 2021 21:19
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That Works posted:James O'Keefe / Project Veritas got the boot. Hahaha that stupid Goober finally got it. Well he always has Par…oh wait. 
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Apr 15, 2021 21:21
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M_Gargantua posted:Hence why despite postings of 65mph or whatever most people are doing 75-80 on your average day, even if the road is empty. Everybody is taught to respect the signage but nobody actually does. The phrase you are looking for is "V85".
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Apr 15, 2021 21:24
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M_Gargantua posted:If you for example make it so that speeding was punishable by a week in the local jail that would still have racial and class biased fiscal consequences, as a wealthy individual not being able to work for a week is no where near the crippling act it could be for someone at the poverty line. Isn't there some euro country that bases all their traffic fines on a percentage of monthly wage or some such?
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Apr 15, 2021 21:39
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ASAPI posted:This is interesting. I think you might have misread the article—it's not suggesting an end to traffic stops for speeding or running red lights (And in fact specifically calls out those kinds of stops as having a measurable effect on safety), but instead is pointing out how so many traffic stops are motivated not by safety, but instead to generate revenue through tickets for poo poo like failing to signal, having an obstructed license plate,* or other bullshit that effectively acts as a pretext for the police to pull you over at will. There is absolutely plenty of room to keep cops around to catch drunk drivers and knock people doing 45 in a suburb, while also vastly reducing the number of potential infractions that even the best drivers may run afoul of unknowingly and exist only to give excuses to pull people over and issue bullshit fines. *Hey, that plastic cover that the dealership put on top of your license plate that you're too lazy to remove? Guess what, it can be an excuse to pull you over! Take that poo poo off!
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Apr 15, 2021 21:45
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Look maybe i'm just salty but failing to signal is also a safety issue. Use your blinkers people!
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Apr 15, 2021 21:50
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CainFortea posted:Look maybe i'm just salty but failing to signal is also a safety issue. Use your blinkers people! Do you know exactly how many feet to turn that signal on before your turn?
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Apr 15, 2021 21:51
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CainFortea posted:Isn't there some euro country that bases all their traffic fines on a percentage of monthly wage or some such? Finland as mentioned above, but that system is just as bad, it assumes a person doesn’t have substantial expenses and just treats there income as all profit (and no I’m defending the super rich, just idea of pegging it to income), which I don’t like. I mean what if you lost your job, medical emergencies, kid related things, I just don’t like it. Also I was thinking points only, but that’s really ripe for abuse too, especially for people who need to drive to a job to support their family.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:52
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CainFortea posted:Look maybe i'm just salty but failing to signal is also a safety issue. Use your blinkers people! Any time you are saying you're ok with something being criminalized, realize you're saying it merits summary execution in the US.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:52
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Look, if I’m in the right turn only lane and I don’t have my signal on, it’s you who is the moron if you don’t know where I’m going.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:54
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boop the snoot posted:Look, if I’m in the right turn only lane and I don’t have my signal on, it’s you who is the moron if you don’t know where I’m going. 
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Apr 15, 2021 21:55
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boop the snoot posted:Look, if I’m in the right turn only lane and I don’t have my signal on, it’s you who is the moron if you don’t know where I’m going. You say that, but driving home last night I was cut off by someone who treated the right turn only lane as an extra credit shortcut to get in front of me at a stoplight.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:56
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SchnorkIes posted:Any time you are saying you're ok with something being criminalized, realize you're saying it merits summary execution in the US. See I’ve always said gun control is…kidding kidding. Sorry sorry I couldn’t help it. Still I think for purely administrative things it’s not a problem and also I doubt anyone would object to murder or sex crimes, but what about things like tax fraud or assault, sorry I just have a huge problem with the statement, even if there is truth to it.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:56
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I didn’t say I wasnt going directly in the wall.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:57
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hobbesmaster posted:Do you know exactly how many feet to turn that signal on before your turn? Yeah, this is what cops will catch a lot of people on for these kinds of stops, because in these cases it's not actually about signaling properly, but instead a pretext to pull someone over, run their plates, see if they have any outstanding warrants/fines (often from previous bullshit stops), and potentially issue some new ones. It's an inherently corrupt and predatory system.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:59
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https://twitter.com/stephensemler/status/1382106811013197825?s=19
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Apr 15, 2021 22:04
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boop the snoot posted:Look, if I’m in the right turn only lane and I don’t have my signal on, it’s you who is the moron if you don’t know where I’m going. Oh how i wish that was any indication. People take left hand turns from right turn only lanes across 4 lanes of traffic all the time man...i almost tboned someone today who saw me coming while they were at a stopsign with a "crosstraffic does not stop" sign today because i was in the straight lane and thry assumed i was turning right because ??? I DID tbone a drunk florida lawyer in SC so hard i rolled her volvo suv all the way over until it landed in the ditch back on its wheels. Had to yank the doors open while her kids were screaming incase something started burning and me and my coworker needed to pull her out. 4 lane 55 mph road with a suicide turn lane. She had been parked on thr shoukder with her 4 ways going and decided to pull a uturn across all of it with traffic coming in both directions. Stravag fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 22:12
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Finland as mentioned above, but that system is just as bad, it assumes a person doesn’t have substantial expenses and just treats there income as all profit (and no I’m defending the super rich, just idea of pegging it to income), which I don’t like. I mean what if you lost your job, medical emergencies, kid related things, I just don’t like it. I wish we had their openness about tax records: quote:When top earners’ tax returns are published in Finland, they call it “national envy day”. In Sweden, one phone call will get you your lawmaker’s tax bill. Norwegians’ fascination with each others’ taxes has been labeled “financial porn”. quote:Many Scandinavians use openness on taxes to estimate salaries of co-employees, helping with wage negotiations. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-nordics/privacy-what-privacy-many-nordic-tax-records-are-a-phone-call-away-idUSKCN0X91QE Oh man if they did that here there'd be revolts in offices when people realize how unpaid they are.
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Apr 15, 2021 22:30
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Sending more people to jail is lovely, and while wealth-adjusted fines would be a big improvement over now, x% of wealth still hurts way less the richer you get. You could bracket it like taxes, but the wealthy already hide their wealth. Why not just build out mass transit? Can't get pulled over for speeding on the bus. lightpole posted:Theres a traffic engineers thread
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Apr 15, 2021 22:48
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Finland as mentioned above, but that system is just as bad, it assumes a person doesn’t have substantial expenses and just treats there income as all profit (and no I’m defending the super rich, just idea of pegging it to income), which I don’t like. I mean what if you lost your job, medical emergencies, kid related things, I just don’t like it. Make it percentage of wealth and there's no problem. Either way there's no reason to involve police. Mail the tickets or use unarmed traffic enforcement, no one needs to have their lives threatened over a moving violation.
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Apr 15, 2021 22:49
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M_Gargantua posted:Chicago video came out. They murdered a kid. What is this one? I seriously can't keep up...
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Apr 15, 2021 22:50
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Make it percentage of wealth and there's no problem. YOU CANT TAKE A PICTURE OF MY CAR WHAT IF SOMEONE ELSE IS DRIVING IT MY FREEDOMS Can just set warnings and take license after multiple. The point is to establish a pattern of offense before punishment. It might work but the reality is boilerplate punishments will disadvantage the poor over the rich. lightpole fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 22:53
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:What is this one? I seriously can't keep up... A 13-year old in Chicago was murdered by cops because ACAB. They tried to cover it up for a week or two and planted stories about the kid being armed and dangerous before the age got out. Then after his age got out the local media tried to present 13-year olds as a threat to police officers. ACAB e: seriously this is gross af https://twitter.com/chitribopinions/status/1379556582145544193?s=19
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Apr 15, 2021 22:55
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loving hell 
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Apr 15, 2021 22:57
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boop the snoot posted:Look, if I’m in the right turn only lane and I don’t have my signal on, it’s you who is the moron if you don’t know where I’m going. Extremely fast and swerving to the left at the last second to cut off the traffic in the straight lane?
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Apr 15, 2021 22:58
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