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That ending was a spectacular letdown, oh well. Game's still good.
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Apr 16, 2021 18:27
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Was it? I disagree. I do agree the game is good, though 
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Apr 16, 2021 18:45
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I wanted the game to end with a hard fight (No the Grand Finale doesn't count, it doesn't even use power null) and maybe explain Carmen's deal as the distortion voice or whatever instead of on TO BE CONTINUED
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Apr 16, 2021 18:46
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Right, but the story wasn't really about that, in the end. Taken it was only ever sort of alluded to, the only way to get that out of the way at this point would be some sort of massive loredump at the very finale. As per the fight, the last week's ones were perfectly fine for a final bout, whilst today's was clearly meant to be more of a cinematic affair.
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Apr 16, 2021 18:51
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Theantero posted:Right, but the story wasn't really about that, in the end. Taken it was only ever sort of alluded to, the only way to get that out of the way at this point would be some sort of massive loredump at the very finale. As per the fight, the last week's ones were perfectly fine for a final bout, whilst today's was clearly meant to be more of a cinematic affair. I mean, the story was basically Angela's character development (and Roland's) so leaving that bit out is kind of lame. llike, the into seems to foreshadow a lot of stuff with lyrics ("If you're going to replace me, at least have the audacity to kill me thoroughly", "Inside the mirror do you see/Someone else in that body?" that just doesn't actually lead to anything We'll have to agree to disagree on the fight though. I'm not even counting the battle this week since it's just a cutscene, but I like it when the game ends on a real test of all the skills and knowledge you've put acquired over the course of the game. Hokma's RE fight is a good example of the sort of thing that makes for a good final fight, you really need to stop and think about how you build your decks for everyone. It's really cool! It's not bad is the thing, it's just a let down that it's leaving one of the biggest questions the game asks with a "to be continued?".
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Apr 16, 2021 18:58
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Yeah, the way I see it. Library of Ruina was the Empire Strikes Back of the franchise, veering away only at the last moment from being a complete calamity--but for all Zena smugly smugs just as hard as Garion, the Head doesn't actually understand the real danger of all of this because of their contempt for humanity. Angela being Angela feels to me like a decoy, to make them dismiss the danger of E.G.O. and make them think it's just an unsightly thing that'll just get integrated like everything else does--so the most important thing is to suppress that damned Machine with a human soul and either destroy it--or barring that, send it someplace where it won't return. We have our answer now as to why the Library only becomes an Impurity on the top end--the City is built from top to bottom to channel the aggression and despair it creates into perpetuating it--a machine of perfect logic and rationality won't bother changing anything because it would cause an unacceptable risk... It takes a machine free of the needs of humanity but with pronounced empathy and a human-analog mind and soul to be dumb enough to rebel--but smart and strong enough to avoid the usual firebreaks that exist for this kind of thing. And all the while Iori's loving around and moving pieces while the Head's too busy being terrified of what Angela might do in the future after having lost their window to purge her thanks to Roland, Gebura, and Binah, that they're not paying attention to what the Purple Tear is doing--and what she's doing is brute forcing through the City's usual churn to implement something intentionally, and put people who can Manifest E.G.O. and control it in a position of power and influence. And so we've got the setup for L-Corporation 2 and the upcoming dungeon crawler. Someone's got to fill in that new real estate, and someone's got to grab all the E.G.O. so it can be mass produced. And so Carmen's plan continues unabated... Alectai fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 19:01
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Acerbatus posted:I mean, the story was basically Angela's character development (and Roland's) so leaving that bit out is kind of lame. llike, the into seems to foreshadow a lot of stuff with lyrics ("If you're going to replace me, at least have the audacity to kill me thoroughly", "Inside the mirror do you see/Someone else in that body?" that just doesn't actually lead to anything Yours is a fair take, but my point is exactly that this huge question was only ever sort of coyly hinted at. It's a big background thing being set up, and there simply wasn't enough narrative space left in this game to actually properly address it. Hell, taken that my chief issue with this game's writing is that the dramatic turns often feel a bit rushed, I probably would have been disappointed if they did attempt to address it here Thus my take with the ending is more 'makes sense' rather than 'how disappointing'. I was all in all quite happy with it, but to each their own.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:32
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So for the person having trouble getting a Molar Office book it's actually the opposite of what you'd expect. YOu want to kill one of them at EL0 or 1. So don't clash with them and just absolutely wreck one of them in one turn. After a certain Emotion Level you just get their named book drop
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Apr 16, 2021 20:43
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Sitting on it a bit even if I am disappointed, I think I like what is there for the ending at least, even if it doesn't have everything I'd like. I assumed the LC crew was done with since the next game isn't about them, but maybe not. Roland going to FRIEND was a cute touch, and the new main menu screen/music was nice I'll miss LoR's gameplay specifically in whatever comes next,t he entire reason I ended up getting into the series was because LoR looked cool even when LC didn't appeal to me at all after I first heard about it. It's funny that for the very final cutscene fight the Arbiter and Claw aren't... Actually that impressive. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 20:47
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Acerbatus posted:I'll miss LoR's gameplay specifically in whatever comes next,t he entire reason I ended up getting into the series was because LoR looked cool even when LC didn't appeal to me at all after I first heard about it. I do find it interesting how PM just goes all over the place wrt the genres of their games, yeah. I kinda like it, but it does sort of pose the challenge of keeping people hooked throughout the series since not everything appeals to everybody. Personally, I'll be back just because I'm probably too invested in the setting for my own good, but still. As per the second point: I'd actually argue this makes total sense. Both the Arbiter and the Claw were strong, but just looking at their cards they aren't unbeatably strong. But we already know that: The Red Mist by herself canonically killed two Claws and mortally wounded an Arbiter in a facility filled with rampaging abnormalities. The thing with them though, is that they don't fight fair (I believe this is canonically stated by Roland during a cutscene, but I can't actually recall where exactly he said it). Here the Arbiter comes to the Library all 'I did it 35 minutes ago' style, where the Head's main plan is already underway and without us in any position to stop it even if we wanted to. And more than that, they only initiated combat where our ability to fight back was severely limited enough that we couldn't realistically win, even though the Arbiter and Claw by their lonesome probably wouldn't rank that high in difficulty when compared to other stuff we've so far seen.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:24
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Almost beat the fire office but enough burn had piled up that I lost.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:29
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That's how they get you, yeah
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Apr 16, 2021 21:50
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I am really happy with how it ends, and the fact that it's really a single big story told across multiple games. I'd be even willing to bet, although I am not certain, that we won't see the complete end even in the next two games that have been announced. And honestly, I dig this, LoR and LC were cool in their own right and the fact that PM are building up their setting's mythos and massive stable of characters is awesome. God, what a great series.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:05
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Obviously I'm sad as a player of the game that there's no use for the Unity cards and we don't get to see a fully kitted out Kether floor but my only complaint with the plot is that the Head actually attacked the Outskirts lab because they weren't willing to tolerate someone building AI in there, and then later the Head seems fine with just delivering an eviction notice to the Library and...leaving a functioning AI in the Outskirts? Otherwise I think it pretty much told the story that it wanted to tell, and pretty well. ps: where the hell are Small Stories 2 and 3? This is an outrage.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:05
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Reiterpallasch posted:Obviously I'm sad as a player of the game that there's no use for the Unity cards and we don't get to see a fully kitted out Kether floor but my only complaint with the plot is that the Head actually attacked the Outskirts lab because they weren't willing to tolerate someone building AI in there, and then later the Head seems fine with just delivering an eviction notice to the Library and...leaving a functioning AI in the Outskirts? Otherwise I think it pretty much told the story that it wanted to tell, and pretty well.  Hook office post-reception talks about the AI situation a fair amount and seems to indicate they drove off a lot of AIs/robots/critters into the outskirts.MinutePirateBug fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 22:46
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Plus, well... The goal was to move L's Nest and the Library out of the City and kill Angela. It's just that they were a bit overconfident and started doing both at the same time, which meant they didn't have the time to do the second thing.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:15
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Theantero posted:I do find it interesting how PM just goes all over the place wrt the genres of their games, yeah. I kinda like it, but it does sort of pose the challenge of keeping people hooked throughout the series since not everything appeals to everybody. Personally, I'll be back just because I'm probably too invested in the setting for my own good, but still. Per the second point: Baral actually parries Greater Split Vertical if you try to use it on him, which lends credence to Binah's assertion that she could have defeated Kali if she knew of EGO beforehand . With Zena throwing around an exceedingly large amount of power nulls and dice recycle destroyers I think it does show that they are actually hot poo poo, albeit beatable.The ending is pretty happy all thing considered, though I do feel bad for the Keter nuggets who sat out the last 5 receptions; feels kinda bad that you couldn't use the floor for such a long time and it didn't get theme 3 variation or EGO pages.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:27
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Loved the ending, super stoked for the next games Was worried that the ending would be a downer like Roland sacrificing himself or something for like 90% of the game but I am really happy that it ended on a upbeat and hopeful note and kinda implies that no, we aren't done with this cast
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Apr 17, 2021 02:02
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Just started the third chapter in the train. Oh god this is horrifying.
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Apr 17, 2021 02:16
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Train was a slap that really woke me up while playing the game. The next big slap comes a bit later and it causes Angela to ask Roland if she's just a big a whiner whose throwing a tantrum for no good reason, and Roland confirms that no, what happened to you was indeed hosed up however messed up what we just witnessed was.
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Apr 17, 2021 02:50
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Also I think I am at the point where I need to start grinding and doing proper deck building. Can anyone give me any recommendations about what I should be aiming to do?
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Apr 17, 2021 03:12
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Hunt11 posted:Also I think I am at the point where I need to start grinding and doing proper deck building. Can anyone give me any recommendations about what I should be aiming to do? Kurokumo Clan, Rusted Chains, Workshop Affiliated fixers and Musicians of Bremenare the best cards at that tier, I can give a bit more of a rundown when I'm off my phone.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:23
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Hunt11 posted:Also I think I am at the point where I need to start grinding and doing proper deck building. Can anyone give me any recommendations about what I should be aiming to do? EDIT: I might have missed what the third train chapter is by not counted the Gaze Office, if so the above advice is good. I take it you've started to crack into Urban Nightmare? Yeah, this is where the game really opens up. All the paths available to you lead to some very Good poo poo. The right two paths of Urban Nightmare give you access to a very powerful archetype--the Puppet pages give you excellent Blunt combat pages and passives, which can be stacked onto the key page from the 8 o clock circus, granting you +2 unconditional power to your offensive dice and extra damage on top. I forget if you have the third Keter abnormality at this point, but if you do, abusing the cost randomization abnormality from Pinocchio with Emma's +1 to 3-cost dice, blunt synergy, and a deck full of 3-cost blunt attacks is an extremely degenerate strategy. The far left path gives you some key pages and cards that really aren't very good by themselves, but the key pages have the Hauler series of passives which grant +2 health/stagger recovery whenever you get a hit, for only 2 passive points each. These offer a lot of safety margin when doing receptions and going to be a mainstay in your builds forever especially for longer fights. The middle left path gives you the Shi Office key pages, probably the game's single biggest extended balance headache. There's a lot of bullshit you can pull with them and the gold key page honestly just keeps getting better as your cardpool expands, but even in Urban Nightmare Yujin's ability to benefit from Faint Memories immediately for a 5-11 evade dice and keep her hand stocked up with the pageset's 0-cost gives you an insanely efficient tank.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:29
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Some of cards you get from the train fight will last you most of the game, once you do the shi association urban nightmare invite, the urban plague pages from using 1 and 2 urban plague books are potentially interesting. The urban nightmare pages from doing a general invite using 1 and 2 urban nightmare books are really good. Sayo, workshop affiliated fixer, walter, olga are pretty good for attributions are pretty good for where you are in the game. Other molar office cards & attribution can useful at the point your at but they kind of fall off. Some cheap attributions that are useful are Yun's and Eri's from Yun's fixer office and the attributions from the brotherhood of iron. Full stop office cheese is also pretty good at this point in the game for the short fights and for grinding out cards you want.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:32
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wew, ending is sufficiently divisive that it's actually had a tangible impact on the overall/recent review score on Steam  Overall dropped to 85%, Recent down to 71% at the time of me posting this. I'm sure it'll recover, especially when it exits EA and has fresh people playing it for the first time, but it's always interesting to me to see how wildly people respond to things sometimes. I wounder if people's negative opinions of LoR will turn around when, a few years down the line, the threads that started here and in LC get eventually resolved. I think a lot of the negativity is from as someone put it in the thread, this being a vaguely Empire Strikes Back -ish installment, somewhere in the middle of the narrative, and crucially many people didn't and still don't know this. Sure it satisfyingly arcs both Roland and Angela, but I think many people were hyped for this to end with a take-down of the Head & Co. and didn't realize it was a far more zoomed in personal experience for the two protagonists instead.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:23
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i honestly think people would have taken it a lot better if they'd just delayed last week's update to this week and released them together
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Apr 17, 2021 11:02
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Thanks for the advice. In general I think I will be trying to grind out cards at and around the current tier that I am at before pressing forward. Both to build up my deck and so that I can start building better key pages.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:10
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Reiterpallasch posted:i honestly think people would have taken it a lot better if they'd just delayed last week's update to this week and released them together this. That said most of the review bombs are coming from China? Did they do something in the ending they'd find deeply offensive or something???
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Apr 17, 2021 11:51
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TeeQueue posted:this. Lets fire up the ol' Google Translate, with all the usual caveats quote:中文变成口口口了，而且选不到 "Chinese has become verbal, and I can’t choose" This is the only one that I've put through GT that has a specific different grievance, the vast VAST majority are "did not like the ending / was unfinished". A few were unhappy about overall difficulty/balancing. Also, this absolute pearl from GoogleTranslate: quote:"Library of Ruins" is like a two-dimensional girl. Below the bridge of the nose is a black silk long-legged cat maid, and above the bridge of the nose is Nyarlatotepu. e.: So to answer your question, I couldn't find any specific mention of a particular grievance like what happened with that Taiwanese game that got pulled from Steam a few months back. It legit seems Chinese players/reviewers in particular did not like the ending.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:00
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All that absolute gem did is make me wish a Nyarlathotep maid was in the game. I can say for sure that the ending was not a conclusion to everything.... but it's definitely the ending of Roland/Angela's part in the greater story of the City. Maybe it's just that I like transitional works, it felt fine enough to me.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:03
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I agree, but I think the fact that I already knew there'd be more and that it was likely the status quo in The City wouldn't be disrupted TOO much tempered my expectation a fair bit, between the sequel(s) announcement, their description and the overall feeling of the game by the time the Reverberation Ensemble kicked the doors down there wouldn't really be enough time to satisfactorily present the Head/Eye/Claws the way the Ensemble had been all game long. Now that I think about it, someone coming in NOW with the full game playable from start to finish will probably find the ending even more polorizing, if they aren't primed for the fact that yes, there's more to come. e.: Recent Reviews have dipped below 70% and are now "Mixed", overall 86%. Man this is a little bit of a bummer, I get people's issues with it but it's not worthy of the hit, imo, I hope PM don't take the wrong impressions from it 'cause outright sucking it does not. KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 13:09
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You're definitely not wrong about that. I sure can't wait to get to this point in the next LP thread.  Well, we'll see how it all shakes out. They're probably going to tweak things a bit since that's what they do.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:11
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TeeQueue posted:I sure can't wait to get to this point in the next LP thread. Look on the bright side, by the time you do the next game will probably be in Early Access and you'll already have had to ask mods to issue probations due to spoilers getting posted. The cycle continues.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:15
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The City never changes. But man if we get to the end of the thread without having another thread closure due to weird derails, I need to remember to post the thing I asked mizure to make just in case I had to close the thread due to weird derails again. It's a thing of beauty. And simplicity. Simple beauty.
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Apr 17, 2021 13:19
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Is it wrong that I already have a full list of Ruina moments I can't wait for the future LP to get to?
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Apr 17, 2021 14:36
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KazigluBey posted:e.: Recent Reviews have dipped below 70% and are now "Mixed", overall 86%. Man this is a little bit of a bummer, I get people's issues with it but it's not worthy of the hit, imo, I hope PM don't take the wrong impressions from it 'cause outright sucking it does not. love the [150 hours on record] "everything is great but the ending is a sequel hook, 0/10" reviews
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Apr 17, 2021 14:52
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Whelp, PM have made a statement and apologized for the ending. I don't really think there's anything to apologize for, and I've heard from one streamer that PM was getting death threats. Just another normal day... https://steamcommunity.com/app/1256670/discussions/0/5624408883140581584/ Obviously don't click on the link if you care about being spoiled wrt the ending.
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Apr 17, 2021 15:47
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A pity they end up bowing to the demands, but I can't exactly blame them given the harassment they're getting.
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Apr 17, 2021 17:17
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KazigluBey posted:wew, ending is sufficiently divisive that it's actually had a tangible impact on the overall/recent review score on Steam LC did end with more resolution than LoR but yeah. KazigluBey posted:Whelp, PM have made a statement and apologized for the ending. I don't really think there's anything to apologize for, and I've heard from one streamer that PM was getting death threats. Just another normal day... I'm so loving upset, people loving suck and I didn't even like the ending entirely. TeeQueue posted:All that absolute gem did is make me wish a Nyarlathotep maid was in the game. Roland maybe but Angela is definitely gearing up for something else. e: Except... It specifically says that they're not going to be important? Okay that's a letdown. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 20:34
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I don't think that's what they said? I think what they said though is that "Library of Ruina is about Angela, Roland, and how the City makes them both monsters". We haven't seen the last of the Library--but the narrative no longer centers around them seems to be what they're trying to get across? The core conflict was resolved and they walked away as better people from it--that doesn't mean they forever cease to be relevant to the story of The City.
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Apr 17, 2021 20:51
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