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Zaphod42 posted:He sails faster than anybody for sure, to the point where it seems like he has some magic that nobody else knows about. (But its established and built up as a cool mystery instead of a plot hole) No, I actually agreed with you, sorry if that didn't come across. I meant more that I thought that in the books he just sails off from the iron islands and returns with a gently caress off gigantic fleet and weird magic. I wish the show had played up that aspect of Euron way more so we wouldn't have gotten stupid poo poo like Dany 'forgetting' to look to the right and Grey Worm not using a spyglass and instead we could have had him conjure mist or darkness or whatever the gently caress. Hell he could have made Dany see illusions or something. No...instead they go the absolutely stupid direction.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:28
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An insane mind posted:Technically, in the books isn't that what he does? Book Euron is a nightmare and my chief point of argument as to why GRRM may not do pure good characters, he DOES, in fact, do pure evil. The dude raped and murdered his younger brothers, is plotting to become a god, seduced and "married" a girl, got her pregnant, and in the latest TWOW sample chapter cut off her tongue and hung her from the front of his ship naked and pregnant, right next to his brother. Book Euron literally conjuring up a fleet would make sense given his characterization. He has (or perhaps had) a horn that he claims can steal Daenerys's dragons; he has a suit of Valyrian Steel armor; it's generally theorized he has some connection with the Three-Eyed Crow (renamed Raven in the show).
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Apr 16, 2021 19:28
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An insane mind posted:No, I actually agreed with you, sorry if that didn't come across. I meant more that I thought that in the books he just sails off from the iron islands and returns with a gently caress off gigantic fleet and weird magic. I wish the show had played up that aspect of Euron way more so we wouldn't have gotten stupid poo poo like Dany 'forgetting' to look to the right and Grey Worm not using a spyglass and instead we could have had him conjure mist or darkness or whatever the gently caress. Hell he could have made Dany see illusions or something. No...instead they go the absolutely stupid direction. Nah I understood you agreed, I was just trying to remember when I knew from the books. Sorry if it sounded like I was arguing with you, I was just trying to answer your question. Yeah, maybe something like Euron heads to Essos and Dany knows about it, so decides to push her attack on another castle, only for Euron to show up at the same time and they're all like "how did he get here? He was supposed to be way far away!" But just not seeing him come around an island is ridiculous when you have flying dragons that should be able to see ships coming from miles away. At least having some fog would definitely help, lol.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:30
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Groovelord Neato posted:Haven't read the books but does the Iron Fleet get stolen from him and then he builds a new one in an incredibly short time frame? The Kingsmoot went down pretty differently in the books, other than Euron winning.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:30
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Zaphod42 posted:Nah I understood you agreed, I was just trying to remember when I knew from the books. Sorry if it sounded like I was arguing with you, I was just trying to answer your question. You didn't seem argumentative, I was just like a'doy I wasn't being super clear. We bros :fistbump: I think a lot of it would be fixed by having fAegon instead of a mute and catatonic Cersei as the antagonist for Dany. I think fAegon would be a lot more tactical...though DnD might have turned him into a slobbering halfwit just for subversion.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:36
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An insane mind posted:You didn't seem argumentative, I was just like a'doy I wasn't being super clear. We bros :fistbump: Yeah having someone else claim her title would have worked really well to actually give Dany a reason to start becoming more desperate and angry. She spends all this time trying to get to her birthright only for someone else to show up and claim to be the TRUE Targaryen heir. That along with some other developments (and maybe another season) and you could have a Dany heel-turn that may have worked. They sorta tried to make Jon that, with the whole Varys plot, but it went nowhere and Jon was just going "mah queen" the whole time so there was no real tension or conflict until suddenly she kills innocents so he has to put her down.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:41
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Remembering the greatest setup for a fantasy horror movie of all time, when they hide in the Stark family catacombs, and are immediately massacred by generations of risen ancestors working in mindless concert to (some sort of symbolism here)
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Apr 16, 2021 19:49
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah having someone else claim her title would have worked really well to actually give Dany a reason to start becoming more desperate and angry. She spends all this time trying to get to her birthright only for someone else to show up and claim to be the TRUE Targaryen heir. That along with some other developments (and maybe another season) and you could have a Dany heel-turn that may have worked. The amount of times he just went "I don't want it." made any tension there could have been there seem just utterly contrived.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:50
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The fact Jon spends his whole life a bastard, finds out his parents loved him, and he shrugs it off and tells nobody is insane. D&D only care about the superficial elements. They fought really hard for that zombie polar bear nobody cares about, but they don't give a poo poo about Jon.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:57
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Pattonesque posted:loling right now at D&D wanting to remove Rickon entirely from the first season and GRRM going "no he has a larger role later" Probably had the most fitting name for his direwolf out of the six.
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Apr 16, 2021 20:08
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Zaphod42 posted:The fact Jon spends his whole life a bastard, finds out his parents loved him, and he shrugs it off and tells nobody is insane. I have a feeling in the books, Jon is going to find out his true parentage (how I don't know, maybe he'll come back from the dead knowing it, or maybe while he's in Ghost he'll take a smell of his own body and Ghost will impart the knowledge to him "oh hey you smell like Maester Aemon" and Jon will go "oh poo poo"), and as he's reeling with that, he'll be handed Robb's will, legitimizing him as a Stark and naming him King in the North. Jon will have the choice between everything he ever wanted, and more... and he'll choose more, leave the North, head down to join up with his "brother" fAegon, and that will bring him into direct conflict with Daenerys.
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Apr 16, 2021 20:37
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Sky Shadowing posted:I have a feeling in the books, Jon is going to find out his true parentage (how I don't know, maybe he'll come back from the dead knowing it, or maybe while he's in Ghost he'll take a smell of his own body and Ghost will impart the knowledge to him "oh hey you smell like Maester Aemon" and Jon will go "oh poo poo"), and as he's reeling with that, he'll be handed Robb's will, legitimizing him as a Stark and naming him King in the North. No I'm pretty sure he'll just be told...
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Apr 16, 2021 20:38
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An insane mind posted:No I'm pretty sure he'll just be told... Most likely, yeah, by Howland Reed (or Melisandre maybe, she's like "how is he the Prince that was Promised, he is no Prince" and then looks into the flames and sees "oh poo poo"). I just also do like the theory that Howland Reed is the High Sparrow (since in the books the Sparrow's physical description is very Crannogman-like). fAegon takes the city and asks the High Sparrow to crown him King; Reed says "no, you're a fake, there's only one true ruler of the Seven Kingdoms" (all the readers think he's talking about Jon but he's actually talking about Dany since as far as Howland knows Jon is a sworn brother of the Night's Watch and therefore out of the line of succession and as is evidenced by my posting history I'm utterly sure Dany is Jon's sister) and Howland is put to death.
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Apr 16, 2021 20:44
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I have watched half of the notorious ep3 and I have numerous questions. First and foremost is this: Why did the Zombies, whom we are shown on a legion of times are extremely flammable, not just add fire to the trench when they laid in it. Why was the loving fire steak trench behind their formations. Ah I bet it was Jon Snuh was holding the map of the defence upside down. It was literally back to front. wtf. There isn't a  + big enough.They had months and this is what they managed. They deserved death imo.
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Apr 16, 2021 20:47
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I'm pretty sure we're agreeing while talking in circles. I think all those same things are bad and dumb, but for slightly different reasons.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:01
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Collateral posted:I have watched half of the notorious ep3 and I have numerous questions. First and foremost is this: Why did the Zombies, whom we are shown on a legion of times are extremely flammable, not just add fire to the trench when they laid in it. Why was the loving fire steak trench behind their formations. The Game of Thrones season 8 patch notes, in addition to massively buffing dragons, also massively buffed the zombies and nerfed the white walkers. Yeah we've seen before on the show that it is established the zombies not only burn, they actively go up in flames like they're made of gasoline. But... that just stops being a thing.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:02
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Zaphod42 posted:The Game of Thrones season 8 patch notes, in addition to massively buffing dragons, also massively buffed the zombies and nerfed the white walkers. Temporary climate change made it so fire doesn't work on
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Apr 16, 2021 21:05
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As a fun trip report about my descent into the world of fanfic, it turns out the horrific writing mistakes of the last seasons formed a goldmine for writers to work whatever characters into whatever they wanted. For example, Sansa can easily be portrayed as a sociopathic tyrant, who didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale in the hopes he died, and she didn't want to save Rickon because that cleared the path for her to take the throne. A few fics where Jon is Too Smart to trust Daenerys and manipulates her, using her armies in the manner they did in the show because he's trying to bleed her manpower and strength advantage dry. Usually in these fics it's because he's realized his One True Love is Sansa. Did you know the Jon/Sansa fandom is bigger than Jon/Daenerys? That's really loving weird to me. I know Jon is her cousin in blood, but... they were raised together as brother and sister. loving hell, Jon/Dany is less weird to me, and this is straight coming from the guy who thinks Jon and Dany are brother and sister, because they weren't RAISED as brother and sister (them being Targs has nothing to do with it either). I'm curious, if I'm right, to know what happens to the Jon/Dany community. If it implodes all around itself or if they just embrace the sibling incest.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:11
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Zaphod42 posted:Also Grey Worm was hanging out at a castle and didn't notice an approaching fleet. And then the Unsullied just appear in front of King's Landing in a later episode, with no explanation, even though they made a big deal about how bad it was that they were trapped in Casterly Rock with no food.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:12
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Sky Shadowing posted:Did you know the Jon/Sansa fandom is bigger than Jon/Daenerys? That's really loving weird to me. I know Jon is her cousin in blood, but... they were raised together as brother and sister. loving hell, Jon/Dany is less weird to me, and this is straight coming from the guy who thinks Jon and Dany are brother and sister, because they weren't RAISED as brother and sister (them being Targs has nothing to do with it either). Trust the internet to go for incest fanfiction as much as they can. To be fair, so does GRRM.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:16
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The show kills Dany/Jon all by itself and leaves Sansa as one of the last competent characters. I'm frankly impressed that anyone is still bothering to write slash for this.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:18
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Hey the world itself is really interesting. I'm not surprised people are still writing fiction for it. People are still writing fiction for Avatar the last airbender and that was almost a decade ago by now.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:34
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Chubby Henparty posted:Remembering the greatest setup for a fantasy horror movie of all time, when they hide in the Stark family catacombs, and are immediately massacred by generations of risen ancestors working in mindless concert to (some sort of symbolism here) Is there any consequence to that happening at all? I remember fake spoilers having that happen and getting a few characters killed, but the real thing happened and it had no real effect on the story except another bad Tyrion plan.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:35
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bobjr posted:Is there any consequence to that happening at all? I remember fake spoilers having that happen and getting a few characters killed, but the real thing happened and it had no real effect on the story except another bad Tyrion plan. Nope. Just fake drama. Also the zombie they brought Cersei couldn't escape a wooden box but the Stark catacombs zombies who are ancient were able to break through solid stone... And even though Tyrion should have known better and didn't, there was no real cost. Probably some dead redshirts.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:38
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One of the most infuriating parts of the last few seasons was that Tyrion was incompetent, his plans costing Daenerys two of her allies, and yet when she starts thinking "should I fire him from the Handship" everyone- even Jorah- starts saying "no you're an idiot for even thinking that, he's brilliant." Yet I still can't bring myself to hate Show Tyrion.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:43
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Yeah D&D think all you have to do is say "they're smart" and welp that's done. Actually acting smart isn't important. They pull the same thing with Sansa. They have Arya go "She's the smartest person I know" but then Sansa and Arya go on to act like complete morons and get played by Littlefinger until Bran tells them they're being stupid. Sansa really, really deserved to have some moments where she was a badass, but they never really gave it to her. She should have become Ladyfinger after the vale, but instead she just... gets married to Ramsay. She feeds him to his dogs (which was cathartic but also felt a little out of character, like Arya making pies of all the Freys) and then just sort of is around to fight with Daenerys. She wins the day by calling for the knights of the vale to save Jon, but... why not tell Jon they were coming? Just contrived drama because the audience doesn't know stuff. Tyrion is said to be "smart" but D&D just write him as a drunk guy who just hangs around and occasionally makes jokes. He sounds so different in the earlier seasons.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:49
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Smart characters in the show stop doing smart things coincidentally right around the time the show ran out of books imo D&D were pretty good at adding scenes to flesh out existing content. That scene between Robert and Cersei where they have an honest conversation in Season 1? Baller. They're just not good at all the other stuff
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Apr 16, 2021 22:47
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Collapsing Farts posted:Wouldn't dothraki horses struggle a bit in the norse climates and snow and poo poo Nah they'd probably be ok, assuming the Dothraki Sea has winter at all, but given it's the lazy stereotype of the Pontic Steppe it probably does. Horses are pretty damned good at dealing with snow, as they punch through the snow to get at grass underneath.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:41
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Pattonesque posted:That scene between Robert and Cersei where they have an honest conversation in Season 1? That is one of, if not the best scenes in the entire series. It had emotion heavy conversation that gives us insight on the characters, it does world building without resorting to "as you know", it had strategy discussion, and it acknowledges that the decisions and actions they take trigger consequences and reactions upon the world. I simply cannot believe that such a scene came out of the mind of the same people that decided blowing up the vatican would have zero consequences or to have your light cavalry charge head first into an army that outnumbers them. GRRM was more involved in the 1st season wasn't he?
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Apr 17, 2021 08:54
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lezard_valeth posted:That is one of, if not the best scenes in the entire series. It had emotion heavy conversation that gives us insight on the characters, it does world building without resorting to "as you know", it had strategy discussion, and it acknowledges that the decisions and actions they take trigger consequences and reactions upon the world. I simply cannot believe that such a scene came out of the mind of the same people that decided blowing up the vatican would have zero consequences or to have your light cavalry charge head first into an army that outnumbers them. GRRM was more involved in the 1st season wasn't he? Yeah, GRRM was basically looking over their shoulder until they reached the Red Wedding. At which point D&D had amassed enough clout to ice him out of the show completely and he was very vocally unhappy about things from that point forward. At the time, everyone was just laughing at him going "lol, who cares what you have to say fat man, at least D&D are going to give us an ending to this story, unlike you"... and then we got that ending...
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Apr 17, 2021 08:59
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Pattonesque posted:Smart characters in the show stop doing smart things coincidentally right around the time the show ran out of books In addition to everything said above, HBO brought on a script fixer to add two episodes worth of content to the first season when the show underran. By all accounts, that scene was written by Jane Espenson.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:09
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Open Source Idiom posted:In addition to everything said above, HBO brought on a script fixer to add two episodes worth of content to the first season when the show underran. By all accounts, that scene was written by Jane Espenson. Ah, that explains it then.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:31
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moosecow333 posted:Yeah, even the vaunted Golden Company lasted *checks notes* exactly 30 seconds. This is even more hilarious when you know that historical battles were often all-day affairs.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:31
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moosecow333 posted:Yeah, even the vaunted Golden Company lasted *checks notes* exactly 30 seconds. Should have brought those Elephants!
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Apr 17, 2021 10:49
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I love how the Golden Company was led by a man named Harry Strickland, a man so clearly out of place in Westeros by dint of his normal-sounding name alone that he just immediately died at the first sign of danger.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:01
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Open Source Idiom posted:In addition to everything said above, HBO brought on a script fixer to add two episodes worth of content to the first season when the show underran. By all accounts, that scene was written by Jane Espenson. yeah that explains it! nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, GRRM was basically looking over their shoulder until they reached the Red Wedding. At which point D&D had amassed enough clout to ice him out of the show completely and he was very vocally unhappy about things from that point forward. At the time, everyone was just laughing at him going "lol, who cares what you have to say fat man, at least D&D are going to give us an ending to this story, unlike you"... and then we got that ending... GRRM has his obvious massive issues but they really should have leaned on him more. He at least knows how to write intelligent characters as intelligent characters Like I'm just thinking back comparing the Battle of the Blackwater to the Battle of Winterfell. Tyrion and Bronn are shown thinking about how to approach the battle constantly, considering everything from supplies to the quality of their troops to little advantages they can pull off. Stannis also does this, and he comes up with the reasonably intelligent plan of attacking a weaker gate by sea. That plan is immediately blown up (literally) by a factor he wasn't aware of and couldn't incorporate into his planning, but he stops and considers and realizes he can tank the losses. Meanwhile, Joffrey and the Hound both make bad decisions (freezing up in Joffrey's case, running away in the Hound's case) for explicable emotional reasons (Joffrey is arrogant, cowardly, and a child while the Hound is confronted with his greatest fear). Tyrion considers the situation and makes a smart decision to rally his troops, and while it kinda works it's not enough to overcome Stannis' earlier intelligent decision to push on. Stannis ultimately loses because of something smart another character (Littlefinger, proposing an alliance between Lannister and Tyrell) did, not because he did something stupid. It's so much better than Winterfell lol
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Apr 17, 2021 14:12
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nine-gear crow posted:I love how the Golden Company was led by a man named Harry Strickland, a man so clearly out of place in Westeros by dint of his normal-sounding name alone that he just immediately died at the first sign of danger. Golden Company Propane and Propane Accessories
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Apr 17, 2021 17:47
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Zaphod42 posted:Golden Company Propane and Propane Accessories (regarding Ramsay Bolton) That boy ain't right, I tell you hwat.
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Apr 17, 2021 19:26
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The dumbest poo poo about Euron Greyjoy on the show, out of a litany of dumb poo poo about Euron Greyjoy, is that they hired an actor 37 years younger than the guy playing his little brother. And he looks it! Like at least with the lovely babyface Mountain he was barely in the show without a big dumb helmet.
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Apr 17, 2021 19:43
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Baron von Eevl posted:The dumbest poo poo about Euron Greyjoy on the show, out of a litany of dumb poo poo about Euron Greyjoy, is that they hired an actor 37 years younger than the guy playing his little brother. And he looks it! Like at least with the lovely babyface Mountain he was barely in the show without a big dumb helmet. ? Euron is the younger brother. Although granted, according to the ASOIAF wiki their maximum age gap is like 7 years or so. That said, Euron looking significantly younger than Baelon and being a black-haired heart-throb is consistent with their descriptions in the book. Baelon has a gaunt face with long grey hair flecked with white, Euron is considered very handsome, looks significantly younger than even his youngest brother Aeron (who is never in the show except maybe in a cameo during Theon's ocean baptism), and has jet-black hair.
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Apr 17, 2021 19:55
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