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The Saddest Rhino posted:The new patty Jenkins star wars movie is obviously also going that direction Eh, what?
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Apr 17, 2021 09:53
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TyrantWD posted:Sam with the shield and some cardio isn’t going to win many fights. Any of the enhanced people on Karli’s crew would wipe the floor with him. Sam with wings was kicking Karli's crew around easy enough last week.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:55
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Dexo posted:Eh, what? The whole military propaganda stuff, I mean. The promo piece announcing her x wing films had her talking about how her dad was an air force pilot and she always wanted to make a film about dogfights, etc, if I'm not mistaken
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Apr 17, 2021 09:56
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live with fruit posted:What scenes though? By the time the movie starts, both Carol and Maria are out of the Air Force and all we get in flashbacks is Carol working with Mar Vel and getting mistreated by everyone else. The scenes that make being a military fighter pilot look cool and empowering and aspirational and also the scene where the little girl puts Carol in US colors to replace her alien military, which she is explicitly leaving because they are imperialist monsters thereby creating the implication that the US military is good. I honestly don't think anything that Captain Marvel did vis a vis the military was too far out of line, Carol Danvers being a USAF pilot is a big deal to her backstory and doing a G.I. Jane thing to push the movie's 90s Period Film Appropriate Late Second Wave Early Third Wave Feminist themes vis a vis Glass Ceiling Breaking and being an Independent Self-Made Grrrrrl made plenty of sense. I would frankly say its significantly less US military-worshiping than Iron Man 1, which is really the MCU's peak on that front. What one CAN'T deny is how disgusting the Air Force's own ad campaign which piggybacked off Captain Marvel was. "Every Superhero has an Origin," is one of the worst ones I've ever seen the Pentagon do, right up there with letting the Army have an E-sports team.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:57
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It’s impressive how little I remember of Captain Marvel. I hope the sequel is less... mediocre
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Apr 17, 2021 09:58
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The Saddest Rhino posted:The whole military propaganda stuff, I mean. The promo piece announcing her x wing films had her talking about how her dad was an air force pilot and she always wanted to make a film about dogfights, etc, if I'm not mistaken I mean, you can make a fighter pilot movie without it being military propaganda, and it's even easier to do so if you literally have no tether to real world technology. Star Wars already has a very specific visual language for dogfights, ships and space battles. That like don't require the use of US military bases and the like to shoot on. Sanguinia posted:
It was so so bad, I'm pretty sure I saw more ads from the Military about that movie than I did Marvel itself.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:59
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The Saddest Rhino posted:The new patty Jenkins star wars movie is obviously also going that direction The Saddest Rhino posted:The whole military propaganda stuff, I mean. The promo piece announcing her x wing films had her talking about how her dad was an air force pilot and she always wanted to make a film about dogfights, etc, if I'm not mistaken I don't really think you can compare making literally any movie, or media, about Fighter Pilots to being explicitly propagandist for the US Air Force by featuring them as an organization in your film. When you're doing entirely fictional militaries like the Rebel Alliance, its not the same thing unless you really want to argue that literally any art that depicts any military as heroic or even non-evil is propaganda. I mean, not that that argument has ZERO merit, obviously but there are some pretty obvious degrees between real world present day military in fiction and entirely fictional military.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:02
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Sanguinia posted:The scenes that make being a military fighter pilot look cool and empowering and aspirational and also the scene where the little girl puts Carol in US colors to replace her alien military, which she is explicitly leaving because they are imperialist monsters thereby creating the implication that the US military is good. Ah yeah that’s the bit with the suit I remember, I think the there was a bit of an audible and universal “oh come off it” wanking yankee gesture reaction to that scene. Iron Man 1 is very “American billionaire capitalist class will save us heroic intervention into the dirty Middle East uwu shoot bad guys” and definitely the worst of it, but captain marvel felt like the us airforce had a boom box and was blasting America gently caress yeah every now and then.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:04
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coolusername posted:Ah yeah that’s the bit with the suit I remember, I think the there was a bit of an audible and universal “oh come off it” wanking yankee gesture reaction to that scene. Iron Man 1 is very “American billionaire capitalist class will save us heroic intervention into the dirty Middle East uwu shoot bad guys” and definitely the worst of it, but captain marvel felt like the us airforce had a boom box and was blasting America gently caress yeah every now and then. I hope the what-if where Peggy becomes Captain Britain has some RAF wank in it. It's like USAF wank, but more posh and aristocratic! Like sticking out your pinky while wanking!
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Apr 17, 2021 10:07
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Collapsing Farts posted:It’s impressive how little I remember of Captain Marvel. I hope the sequel is less... mediocre I mostly remember the hijinks with SLJ and the cat.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:08
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I remember captain marvel, because it's plot is essentially, Yo the Palestinians are right, The State of Israel is doing bad loving poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:12
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Sanguinia posted:The scenes that make being a military fighter pilot look cool and empowering and aspirational and also the scene where the little girl puts Carol in US colors to replace her alien military, which she is explicitly leaving because they are imperialist monsters thereby creating the implication that the US military is good. It seems like Captain Marvel is a commercial for the Air Force like ads around a baseball stadium are. They took their money and showed them off but this isn't even "Join the Air Force, see the world," this is "Join the Air Force, get sexually harassed by your fellow pilots if you're a woman." Also, speaking of CM, it's very underrated and has interesting things to say about the way women are gaslighted into submission and I don't understand why it gets so much poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:13
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Sanguinia posted:I hope the what-if where Peggy becomes Captain Britain has some RAF wank in it. It's like USAF wank, but more posh and aristocratic! Like sticking out your pinky while wanking! To be honest that what if could be nothing but an extra long ad for the royal family and the return of the good old days, as long as it’s interspersed with shots of a 6 foot muscular Captain Britain Peggy with perfect make up bench pressing trucks and kicking men I’ll still watch it. Please the lesbian agenda for once Marvel.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:13
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live with fruit posted:It seems like Captain Marvel is a commercial for the Air Force like ads around a baseball stadium are. They took their money and showed them off but this isn't even "Join the Air Force, see the world," this is "Join the Air Force, get sexually harassed by your fellow pilots if you're a woman." I love Captain Marvel, but I think saying it wasn't advertising for the Air Force to some degree is pretty disingenuous. The pilots that sexually harass her get continually owned by how great she is and flying fighter jets is portrayed as an ultimate aspiration that you should be willing to suffer anything to achieve.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:16
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They are owned so much that both female pilot characters quit the air force and eventually find validation by other means
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Apr 17, 2021 10:20
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live with fruit posted:It seems like Captain Marvel is a commercial for the Air Force like ads around a baseball stadium are. They took their money and showed them off but this isn't even "Join the Air Force, see the world," this is "Join the Air Force, get sexually harassed by your fellow pilots if you're a woman." I think it has some interesting themes that it goes for and mostly hits, but it gets poo poo on because the way it tackles them is in the most heavy handed liberal 'girlboss' manner possible. If it was even like one or two notches less heavy handed It'd probably be significantly better received in the extremely online sardonic circles.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:21
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Sanguinia posted:I love Captain Marvel, but I think saying it wasn't advertising for the Air Force to some degree is pretty disingenuous. The pilots that sexually harass her get continually owned by how great she is and flying fighter jets is portrayed as an ultimate aspiration that you should be willing to suffer anything to achieve. Yeah, the movie itself was pretty pro US air-force? I’m not American, I didn’t see those ads, and I still felt like I’d sat through a propaganda clip. Like the whole presentation wasn’t “the us airforce is a hosed up industry of misogyny and assault”, it was “look at these badass women! Strutting in front of their cool plane! Sure they faced some problems in the OLD DAYS but they overcame it like you can too! Brave women and fighting planes woohoo (don’t look at the statistics) let’s make sure the superhero outfit reflects how great the us airforce is!” In comparison to winter falcon centering the Tuskegee experiments, blatant racism, the military industrial complex just destroying people non-stop and grinding them down under the weight of a whole institution that doesn’t care, Captain Marvel absolutely does the opposite in how it handles the misogyny. It’s just an obstacle to be swept aside if you’re a #girlboss, overcome it with no lingering trauma or story addressing it, and now look, she’ll fondly wear the colors while blasting lasers.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:24
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They literally left the Air Force to join that Shield project with the Tesseract because the Air Force was too sexist to let them fly. They did like flying planes tho, Flying planes is cool, if that's your thing.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:26
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Fangz posted:They are owned so much that both female pilot characters quit the air force and eventually find validation by other means What? Carol doesn't quit the Air Force, she's kidnapped by aliens. And we're never told why Rambeau leaves the service, although given how she talks about Carol's disappearance disillusionment over the cover-up of her death seems like the likely culprit. Dexo posted:They literally left the Air Force to join that Shield project with the Tesseract because the Air Force was too sexist to let them fly. Project Pegasus was an Air Force joint-venture, they did not leave the service to take part in it. Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 10:26
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Sorry you're right, I misremembered. But still, they had to be moved and go find some woman led joint force team working with SHIELD and NASA working on weird science poo poo to have a chance at flying an air plane.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:31
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It's starting to seem like the amount of water Marvel carried for the Air Force in Captain Marvel is subjective to each viewer's interpretation.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:33
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Dexo posted:Sorry you're right, I misremembered. Only flying COMBAT MISSIONS. They could fly, they were accredited pilots, we see them doing it in the flashbacks and celebrating getting their wings is why they went to the bar. They just couldn't fly in a way that "mattered," without being test pilots for Pegasus, which according to Rambeau explicitly meant combat duty. Which is also some choice military propaganda now that I think about it.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:35
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I think there's a case to be made, though, that the parts that make it sound like the Air Force is mega radical cool or whatever were at least pretty perfunctory to the story, whereas the part where the folks calling themselves "good guys" made up a fake war and blamed it on innocent refugees was a much more prominent aspect of the film. Like...I'd say TFATWS has glorified the military industrial complex moreso than Captain Marvel, if we really get down to it.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:36
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Dexo posted:Sorry you're right, I misremembered. That isn’t.. exactly a downgrade though? It’s not presented as a horrible institution where the sexism will crush your career ambitions, it’s oh and now you get to... well, like you just said. Get to work on alien spaceships with NASA and the superhero spy agency under a cool female boss who appreciates you? The negatives of the industry are quick asides that don’t really negatively impact the character in ways that are explored, nor are they centered in the narrative.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:37
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The thing I most positively remember about Captain Marvel outside of the impressive de-aging was how much I love the scene towards the end of the film where Jude Law starts giving a big speech about how Carol has to face him without her powers to prove herself to him or something and she just casually blasts him away like the nothing piece of poo poo he is and says she doesn't have to prove anything to him.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:37
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I'm not out here saying that the military gained no benefit from being able to have their planes their logos and stuff in that movie as well as being able to advertise off the back of it. It is just like the equivalent of Jets flying over a sports event during the national anthem level of propaganda. Which is annoying but a level I'm at least used to ignoring. But people are really out here thinking the military was writing scripts and poo poo?
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Apr 17, 2021 10:39
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I'm just continuously amused by how the movie language used for Carol, Maria and Monica is almost perfectly reminiscent of war films about the father/husband going missing on a mission and then coming back years later and patching up his relationship with his family. Right down to Monica having Carol's old jacket as a keepsake/blanket.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:40
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BrianWilly posted:I think there's a case to be made, though, that the parts that make it sound like the Air Force is mega radical cool or whatever were at least pretty perfunctory to the story, whereas the part where the folks calling themselves "good guys" made up a fake war and blamed it on innocent refugees was a much more prominent aspect of the film. I think after this week's episode I need to very vehemently disagree with you. In fact, other than the fact that Sam did a cool mission where he shot down 50 helicopters while still respecting territorial sovereignty and Bucky is getting free therapy from them (which later it turns out wasn't even optional!), I don't know how ANYTHING in this show is glorifying the military more than Captain Marvel. Even US Agent talked poo poo about the military making him a monster and discussed how his Medals of Honor mark atrocities and horror! The point that the Air Force Propaganda in Captain Marvel is mostly subtle/subtextual is fair enough, and the larger thematic message of the story should matter more is a fair take, but come on. Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 10:42
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Dexo posted:
... wait what you have jets flying over sports events?  is this going to be like when I found out about American college football with the cheerleaders and marching bands being real and not a TV thing too
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Apr 17, 2021 10:43
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coolusername posted:... wait what you have jets flying over sports events? https://youtu.be/bv_6qiFAoP0 It's just part of the show
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Apr 17, 2021 10:45
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coolusername posted:... wait what you have jets flying over sports events? And here I always imagined every Premier League game kicked off with a full broadside from HMS Victory! 
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Apr 17, 2021 10:48
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coolusername posted:... wait what you have jets flying over sports events? Sports in the US, specifically football and baseball, put Marvel to shame when it comes to glorifying the military.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:53
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Lord_Magmar posted:I'm just continuously amused by how the movie language used for Carol, Maria and Monica is almost perfectly reminiscent of war films about the father/husband going missing on a mission and then coming back years later and patching up his relationship with his family. Right down to Monica having Carol's old jacket as a keepsake/blanket. Look there’s nothing homoerotic about being a muscular woman in flannel with a common butch hairstyle celebrating Christmas with her completely platonic woman partner who never gave up on her returning from her MIA status and kept wearing her old clothing as a keepsake. MCU executive in the distance: poo poo we queercoded another captain by accident toss out the life partner and someone make sure to cut out Taika’s Valkyrie bi scene!! (Yes I’m bitter)
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Apr 17, 2021 10:54
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live with fruit posted:Sports in the US, specifically football and baseball, put Marvel to shame when it comes to glorifying the military. I’m watching this video in another tab. I can feel a bald eagle sprouting in my heart  
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Apr 17, 2021 10:57
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coolusername posted:Look there’s nothing homoerotic about being a muscular woman in flannel with a common butch hairstyle celebrating Christmas with her completely platonic woman partner who never gave up on her returning from her MIA status and kept wearing her old clothing as a keepsake. Technically, Maria (the mother) does not have the old clothing to wear as a keepsake she gave it to Monica, her daughter. But also yes it's really really heavy-handed and I have to imagine at some point it was potentially written as a romance and backed down on. The cinematic language is very clear.
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Apr 17, 2021 10:58
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Dexo posted:But people are really out here thinking the military was writing scripts and poo poo? I don't think it's so much that they had direct control over the script or the story - but it's impossible for a deal like that not to have an impact. I imagine at the very least the military would've wanted to approve the script before allows its brand to be associated with the film, and if it's a long term relationship it's just another hindrance to storytelling or these films actually saying something. If James Gunn wants Guardians 3 to carry an anti-military message, will he be allowed to do so or will that cause too many awkward meetings when the next Air Force promo deal comes around? (This is generously assuming that Disney themselves aren't in the military propaganda game).
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Apr 17, 2021 10:59
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Lord_Magmar posted:Technically, Maria (the mother) does not have the old clothing to wear as a keepsake she gave it to Monica, her daughter. But also yes it's really really heavy-handed and I have to imagine at some point it was potentially written as a romance and backed down on. The cinematic language is very clear. Plus there's Monica's bitterness in WandaVision.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:00
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stev posted:I don't think it's so much that they had direct control over the script or the story - but it's impossible for a deal like that not to have an impact. I imagine at the very least the military would've wanted to approve the script before allows its brand to be associated with the film, and if it's a long term relationship it's just another hindrance to storytelling or these films actually saying something. If James Gunn wants Guardians 3 to carry an anti-military message, will he be allowed to do so or will that cause too many awkward meetings when the next Air Force promo deal comes around? Given how focused Disney is on China, it's doubtful that they're going to cozy up to the US government. The military's not going to give them more moneythan they could potentially get in China.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:02
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Sanguinia posted:And here I always imagined every Premier League game kicked off with a full broadside from HMS Victory! Only when it's England v France. By the by, am I the only person amused that in an episode where Falcon is told a black man could never be America's symbol, he's literally called "Uncle Sam"?
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Apr 17, 2021 11:03
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stev posted:I don't think it's so much that they had direct control over the script or the story - but it's impossible for a deal like that not to have an impact. I imagine at the very least the military would've wanted to approve the script before allows its brand to be associated with the film, and if it's a long term relationship it's just another hindrance to storytelling or these films actually saying something. If James Gunn wants Guardians 3 to carry an anti-military message, will he be allowed to do so or will that cause too many awkward meetings when the next Air Force promo deal comes around? There's been at least one or two Marvel movies that the Military refused to work with because they weren't sufficiently patriotic, and the Mouse told them to pound sand rather than change anything because they knew they'd come crawling back. I believe Avengers 1 is the most noteworthy example.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:03
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