(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Katt posted:This is one of the reasons that modders have struggled to add a pump action shotgun. There isn't even anything to work with in the first place. there's a mod that's part of the Fallout 4 New Vegas framework that manages to hack it back in called Bullets Counted Reload but even then sometimes it fucks up and doesn't reload the right number of bullets because of how the engine works. my other big issue with Fallout 4's gunplay is the guns themselves. they all look like poo poo and all of the models feel like they were made at 175% scale for some reason
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Apr 18, 2021 07:20
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| # ? May 29, 2024 18:47 |
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my big gameplay issue with fallout 4 was how enemies and items were level scaled to the player basically always. I hate that kinda thing in rpgs
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Apr 18, 2021 07:23
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Katt posted:Also it's political commentary of "capitalism is bad" landed more in the range of "loonie people think that capitalism is this bad" Meanwhile in the real world it's actually worse. I feel like back when I first played it, I figured there was some kind of greater nuance to the situation - like, the company that owned the town had been planning on it being a write-off anyway and all the people were pretty much already abandoned, so the "reasonable" pro-corporate people were really just committing slow suicide, waiting for help that would never come. I only barely remember, because I stopped playing five minutes after the first town.
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Apr 18, 2021 07:23
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Alaois posted:my other big issue with Fallout 4's gunplay is the guns themselves. they all look like poo poo and all of the models feel like they were made at 175% scale for some reason I don't get how it ended up that way. Gun models are overwhelmingly just 3D bricks with no bendy parts and very little animation. Making more and better ones should be pretty cheap. Especially when compared to all the 3D stuff we did get in the game instead.
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Apr 18, 2021 07:29
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Katt posted:I don't get how it ended up that way. Gun models are overwhelmingly just 3D bricks with no bendy parts and very little animation. Making more and better ones should be pretty cheap. Especially when compared to all the 3D stuff we did get in the game instead. the one explanation i saw that kind of makes sense if you do big brain thinking about it is that they wanted the guns to not look like tiny little toys in when you're in power armor and i totally buy that the devs at bethesda didn't think about "what about people who don't want to use power armor"
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Apr 18, 2021 07:31
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The writing wasn't better and the shooting is just as flaccid and poo poo as FO3 and turning the guns all into lego sets mean there's really only 4 guns in the game and they all feel very bad to aim
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Apr 18, 2021 07:34
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Hey now the 44 Revolver shooting ghouls in Vats is rad as hell. I think the over sizing works there 
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Apr 18, 2021 07:36
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I remember Fallout 4's gunplay feeling very off midgame right around when scrap something or other keeps being your best alternative.
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Apr 18, 2021 08:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The writing wasn't better and the shooting is just as flaccid and poo poo as FO3 and turning the guns all into lego sets mean there's really only 4 guns in the game and they all feel very bad to aim Alaois posted:the one explanation i saw that kind of makes sense if you do big brain thinking about it is that they wanted the guns to not look like tiny little toys in when you're in power armor and i totally buy that the devs at bethesda didn't think about "what about people who don't want to use power armor" They should've gone all in if they wanted to exaggerate things like that then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8WXWL_eZH0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YvoiYHs9Dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puzuqS1D2Lc
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Apr 18, 2021 08:07
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:pretty sure they infantilise themselves by adopting the appearance and affect of a literal child, op rest in piss
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Apr 18, 2021 10:15
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I have not played fallout 3 nor 4(soon to make that mistake!) but as a very recent fan of Fallout 2, everything I see about 3 and 4 point towards a franchise that was bought to be capitalized on purely aesthetically. It really feels like Bethy wanted a pre-built post-apocalypse setting and that is all they saw Fallout as. Actually to be more precise it feels like they saw Fallout 1 and then made a divergent timeline where 2 never happened and the Enclave are on the east coast.
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Apr 18, 2021 10:32
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The first two Fallout games are fundamentally about American ideology and its internal contradictions, especially the junction between nationalism, consumerism, and colonialism. There is nothing about Fallout 3 or 4 which indicates the writers or designers understood or cared about any of that, they just like the pew pew laser guns and 1950s aesthetic.
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Apr 18, 2021 10:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhnffiF_Kj0
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Apr 18, 2021 11:03
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Is there a better term for "Surface-Level Iconography"? Where the new owners of an IP can only grasp the appeal of a work being it's surface elements and have trouble, or choose not to understand, the thought process behind those elements. Beyond that there's a stuggle to add anything new and meaningful to the canon. It happened with Bethesda's Fallout (Super Mutants, Vaults, Enclave, Ghouls, Brotherhood) and came to a head in Rise of Skywalker.
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Apr 18, 2021 11:03
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Also saying that "there are tons of crpgs on the market" ignores the point that Fallout 1 and 2 weren't as good as they were specifically because they were turn-based isometric rpgs. Cards on the table the abstracted combat dice-rolling of the og Fallouts sucks(was getting better in 2!) and Wasteland 2 & 3, the spiritual successor-ancestors, play closer to the Fallout Tactics games than them.
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Apr 18, 2021 11:05
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I mean Bethesda had the rights, they specialized in making open world games, so they made Fallout 3 into an open world game. They didn't have amazing writers on staff so the writing in their version of Fallout is flaky, but the groundwork they laid down allowed some of the original team to come back and work on New Vegas which kept the open world exploration and allowed the setting to be given narrative justice. Maybe the same thing could happen again with Fallout 4 since Bethesda and Obsidian are now both under the Microsoft umbrella. It doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me. Of course, Fallout 76 was such a disaster that I'm not sure Bethesda management is capable of making intelligent decisions anymore. Gwen posted:Also saying that "there are tons of crpgs on the market" ignores the point that Fallout 1 and 2 weren't as good as they were specifically because they were turn-based isometric rpgs. yeah sure, but most of those games have pretty involved plots and pretty complex dialogue systems that incorporate many of the good things that were in original Fallout (I never played Pathfinder though, maybe that one sucks). Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 11:43
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Honestly it feels less like Bethesda misses the point with Fallout and more that their writers just can't capture it (and FO4 in particular feels hugely rushed with nothing outside of the main plot fully developed.) Sometimes they get close, though, like a lot of Far Harbour and Point Lookout. 4 also does a decent job overall of fixing the Brotherhood of Steel from how much they messed them up in FO3. I don't get the impression it's just a lazy surface level take. They honestly think they're making deep games. Elder Scrolls has the same issues.
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Apr 18, 2021 11:59
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Honestly the core concept of the Lyon's Brotherhood, that a Brotherhood chapter would be so traumatized by the horrors of their pilgrimage across the country they'd have a whole rear end doctrinal schism, is pretty solid. It's just, y'know. Handled with the grace of a kid smashing action figures together. The Outcasts get like, 5 mins of a DLC for all the exploration of their point of view and there's like no friction within the rest of the East Coast Brotherhood, they're completely flat characters. FO4's Brotherhood meanwhile feels like a kneejerk to the bad reaction to FO3's and while they have some good beats, they don't actually seem to have motivation that isn't defined by what end game path the player decides to go down.
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Apr 18, 2021 12:55
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For all the fuss about the brotherhood, I've always been more bothered by the decision to just turn Super Mutants into ogres. Here they are, hanging out in their sewers with their gore bags. Good times.
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Apr 18, 2021 12:58
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RareAcumen posted:Not really a direct reply to you but it's mostly the same topic though. FaceRig was harder to customize and setup, and it wasn't as easy to make custom characters for, hence why on the example I posted here it was either a very generic looking character or just a still image with some light rigging. Now that people have easier clients for those, you can now see more people do commissions for vtuber rigs.
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Apr 18, 2021 13:14
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Mokinokaro posted:Honestly it feels less like Bethesda misses the point with Fallout and more that their writers just can't capture it (and FO4 in particular feels hugely rushed with nothing outside of the main plot fully developed.) Insert that one talk the senior writer at Bethesda gave about how players will just ignore your story anyway so it's whatever.
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Apr 18, 2021 13:14
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The gunplay was definitely better in 4 than in 3/NV but it had like half the vaults of those games so it's automatically worse gimme a Fallout game where the open world is just rows of vaults, each their own little Twilight Zone episode. in this vault, the experiment was to trick civilians into thinking the animals could talk!!
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Apr 18, 2021 14:05
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theGrooseofLegend posted:I think Bobvids made the most definitive video take-down of CinemaSins CS got even more interminable when Jeremy and company decided to make it their job and needed to beef it up to satiate the hungering Algorithm. Five minutes of poking fun at Paranormal Activity is whatever. Fifteen minutes about why John Wick 2 is bad because he wasn't shown reloading or some dumb Matrix joke that isn't even a sin feels like a living death.
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Apr 18, 2021 14:37
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Dawgstar posted:CS got even more interminable when Jeremy and company decided to make it their job and needed to beef it up to satiate the hungering Algorithm. Five minutes of poking fun at Paranormal Activity is whatever. Fifteen minutes about why John Wick 2 is bad because he wasn't shown reloading or some dumb Matrix joke that isn't even a sin feels like a living death. They also had to start plain making stuff up to pad videos.
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Apr 18, 2021 14:41
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Katt posted:They also had to start plain making stuff up to pad videos. I enjoyed CS at first, but started to get annoyed over time with them getting things wrong. Even then I kept watching for some reason until they started having to dub in terrible music for all of their scenes because of stricter youtube guidelines. I wish it was something better that made me stop but there it is.
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Apr 18, 2021 15:00
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Katt posted:I romanced her in ME1 and then in ME2 she's this murderous psycho but it's okay because she lost a friend and so it makes sense for her to burn down Kings Landing. lol the same thing happened to me. I didn't think she was a complete psycho, but you could tell they decided that the dorky space archeologist wasn't going to work in this darker, edgier, sexier space RPG where they can carefully model asses and say "gently caress". The DLC where you actually help her bust the shadow broker is fun and better-written, at least, but it's hilarious that she's the only ME1 romance you can make out with and reconnect to in 2 and who got a whole prestige DLC addon for that treatment. Schwarzwald posted:I am going to exercise some willpower and not lionize Morrowind for several paragraphs, but I feel like this has been Bethesda's trajectory since Oblivion. Yeah Bethesda made a call with Oblivion to focus more on open world RPGs that Inspector Gesicht posted:Is there a better term for "Surface-Level Iconography"? Where the new owners of an IP can only grasp the appeal of a work being it's surface elements and have trouble, or choose not to understand, the thought process behind those elements. Beyond that there's a stuggle to add anything new and meaningful to the canon. "Capitalist appropriation"? I don't know, the real issue here is that Bethesda's objectives have shifted. Video game RPGs are high-effort for what a low payoff they provide. Thousands of people are still modding and playing Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim today, but Bethesda is getting almost no return on that because these are all either free mods from the massive community, or at most donations directly to the modders that Bethesda doesn't see a cent of. What Bethesda gets returns on is branded merchandise they control, plus the games themselves, and any poo poo they insert into a cash shop in the games. There's a reason there's been such a push across all the studios under its umbrella to slip cash shop stuff into games that don't need it and are made actively worse from having it included. With Fallout specifically, there's also the problem that a major gaming corporation has no incentive to make a nuanced or critical commentary the way Fallout 1 and 2 did, because it's just not great optics for the system that is producing the game itself. You do see a similar drive to just suck the life out of the games with how more and more of the weird world building in The Elder Scrolls gets pushed to the fringe or retconned because they don't want to have a deep dive into all 20+ iterations of Kajiit born under the different moon phases, or portray how many Bosmer are carnivores and cannibals, or anything involving going to Akavir and hanging out with kung-fu monkey people. That all gets in the way of having an approachable #iconic western fantasy RPG that appeals to the broadest base of players.
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Apr 18, 2021 15:18
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Nuns with Guns posted:"Capitalist appropriation"? I don't know, the real issue here is that Bethesda's objectives have shifted. Video game RPGs are high-effort for what a low payoff they provide. Thousands of people are still modding and playing Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim today, but Bethesda is getting almost no return on that because these are all either free mods from the massive community, or at most donations directly to the modders that Bethesda doesn't see a cent of. What Bethesda gets returns on is branded merchandise they control, plus the games themselves, and any poo poo they insert into a cash shop in the games. There's a reason there's been such a push across all the studios under its umbrella to slip cash shop stuff into games that don't need it and are made actively worse from having it included. The return on modding is insane amounts of free marketing
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Apr 18, 2021 15:20
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Andrast posted:The return on modding is insane amounts of free marketing Yeah those hot new New Vegas mods sure are bringing a lot of fresh faces to the game huh?
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Apr 18, 2021 15:25
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Nuns with Guns posted:Yeah those hot new New Vegas mods sure are bringing a lot of fresh faces to the game huh? The mods do in fact bring a lot of extra eyes to their games all the time. Bethesda even went out of their way to add (limited) modding capability into the console versions because they thought it was important
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Apr 18, 2021 15:29
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Andrast posted:The mods do in fact bring a lot of extra eyes to their games all the time. They see mods as important for keeping people playing the game, building fond memories, fixing bugs, and keeping the game updated/playable because that's work they don't have to put into the game to keep the IP alive in the minds of fans. They also tried offering paid mods and that didn't work out. Maybe the existence of the mods carries over somewhat into merchandise sales, but it's not being wrung dry. Those people playing mods at no cost 10 or 20 hours are an untapped market to some empty suit who wants to maximize profit.
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Apr 18, 2021 15:38
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Nuns with Guns posted:They see mods as important for keeping people playing the game, building fond memories, fixing bugs, and keeping the game updated/playable because that's work they don't have to put into the game to keep the IP alive in the minds of fans. so you agree with me about it being free marketing
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Apr 18, 2021 15:40
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There's no way that Skyrim would have been able to be re-released every 2 years for the past decade if all there was to it was the pure vanilla experience.
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Apr 18, 2021 15:43
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Is there a better term for "Surface-Level Iconography"? Where the new owners of an IP can only grasp the appeal of a work being it's surface elements and have trouble, or choose not to understand, the thought process behind those elements. Beyond that there's a stuggle to add anything new and meaningful to the canon. Hey now, it's not just IP owners not getting media. See Doug and The Wall.
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Apr 18, 2021 15:44
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Andrast posted:so you agree with me about it being free marketing I think it's free marketing until something embarrassing happens that gets a lot of attention. And if Bethesda could turn it into free marketing they still make money off of or control more tightly, they would and will keep trying to do so. Why does it matter if I say it's "free marketing" or not?
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Apr 18, 2021 15:48
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Nuns with Guns posted:I think it's free marketing until something embarrassing happens that gets a lot of attention. And if Bethesda could turn it into free marketing they still make money off of or control more tightly, they would and will keep trying to do so. Well I assumed you disagreed with the statement from your initial response
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Apr 18, 2021 15:50
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Andrast posted:Well I assumed you disagreed with the statement from your initial response I am sorry for not composing a nuanced reply to a dismissive quip and instead resorted to a sarcastic remark back
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Apr 18, 2021 15:55
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Nuns with Guns posted:I am sorry for not composing a nuanced reply to a dismissive quip and instead resorted to a sarcastic remark back I forgive you
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Apr 18, 2021 15:56
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at some point people internalized the joke/truism "people fix bethesda's games for them" to what i think might be an over the top point, as we are now insinuating a handful of people participating in a pretty understandable hobby as being stooges of capitalism in order to bring waves of vital, company-lifeblood marketing to nearly over 20 year old games
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Apr 18, 2021 16:55
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u gys are really smart and watch the right content creators
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Apr 18, 2021 16:55
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| # ? May 29, 2024 18:47 |
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Also lol just because Mass Effect came up yesterday, some dingbats are whining about the most dumb thing in the big HD remaster trilogy coming out in a few weeks. THEY MOVED THE CAMERA TO NOT BE RIGHT UP MIRANDA'S rear end ANYMORE, CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP.
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Apr 18, 2021 16:58
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