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So the thing is, once you get into tier 5 and up, IMO it's time to stop constantly expanding and re-building the production lines you've already built. Leave that old poo poo alone. Or if it's obsolete and you want better production from the resources at your starting base, do a full tear-down. (But that's probably just iron, copper, and steel -- you can get those anywhere.) For higher-tier items you need to start building integrated production lines. Something like computers, they need a sufficiently large tree of things supplying them that you can't just pull some spare mats and OC a miner or two. Not if you want more than 1 computer every 5 minutes. Instead you're planning a complete system to make computers or whatever, so you decide how much X you want at the end and then work backwards from there. Work it out on paper, or spreadsheet or with a planner like satisfactorytools, or all of the above.The good thing is when you're done you're done. That's when the game really lives up to the name. explosivo posted:Got it, thank you for this. I've kind of been doing it this way, I have a few separate facilities now and either belt them in or bring them in via train then find *somewhere* up stream that I can plug it into with a merger to fill it up. Definitely going to have to do this with screws for my next project. You definitely don't want to transport screws, screws are harder to transport than what they're made out of. Screws are like the ur-example of why you want integrated, local production of basic components, and only transport the more refined products.
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Apr 19, 2021 17:45
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explosivo posted:Maybe a dumb question but when it comes to figuring out ratios like in that image, how are you all figuring out what you want your output to be? Is it just eyeballing a number you think you can achieve with your input or are you specifically factoring in a product you're trying to make with (in this example) those screws that makes you land on shooting for 120 screws/m? What do you do when you need to expand in that case? I've always played this game by trying to flood the conveyors with enough products so I don't have to worry about ratios but I'm beginning to understand why you can't always do that and am trying to go back and repair some jank parts of my factory that I made before I understood this concept. I use this tool: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production Then as people say, I'll start with the desired output products of the factory. Say, 10 modular frames/min or x/y/z steel pipes, beams and encased beams. That tool will give you all the inputs (you can define which recipes for it to use in case of alternates), right down to the raw ores needed. If I want, then I will modify the end product(s) upwards to reach a target on the incoming raw ore. You can also define a limit on how much raw material incoming and work the other way, or if you have some intermediate product available already (like if you have a belt of screws coming into the factory).
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Apr 19, 2021 18:01
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Sultan Tarquin posted:Thanks for the info! So this would be an actual correct overflow system? So you really ignore the belt splitting ratios, you just account for how much each machine actually consumes and then subtract that from your input amount? Yep, you got it! Splitters will attempt to send things in even ratios. But when one output belt is full and another has space, they'll send the excess to the one(s) that can take it. Likewise mergers will try to take materials from their inputs evenly, round-robin fashion. If a belt doesn't have an item to send, it'll pick from another belt. Splitters and mergers have no speed limit other than the belts they connect to. Also both splitters and mergers have a small internal buffer that assists in smoothing out the small deviations from average rates in manifold setups. (Ex, there are some recipes that don't produce many items per minute, but make a large blob of items all at once when they cycle.) You can use these facts to make easy manifold systems that Just Work in a straightforward way. You can also use them to make an unholy cthulhuian nightmare of mergers and splitters, which uses the even splitting + round-robin picking behavior to prioritize one set of machines over another one.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:40
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I have thought about using “injectors” on especially wide manifolds.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:59
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explosivo posted:Maybe a dumb question but when it comes to figuring out ratios like in that image, how are you all figuring out what you want your output to be? Is it just eyeballing a number you think you can achieve with your input or are you specifically factoring in a product you're trying to make with (in this example) those screws that makes you land on shooting for 120 screws/m? What do you do when you need to expand in that case? I've always played this game by trying to flood the conveyors with enough products so I don't have to worry about ratios but I'm beginning to understand why you can't always do that and am trying to go back and repair some jank parts of my factory that I made before I understood this concept. For me, I don't do any spreadsheet/calculator work and I've 'finished' the game. The two core ideas that I do are: - Stackable factory designs that allow you to easily scale up production of a target item by building new floors, you can copy these or once you get the idea just design them yourself http://bit.ly/satisfactory-floor-plans - A circular bus that you stack up vertically. since it's a circle it can be fed or consumed from anywhere along its length. Put all the major complex components into the bus, obviously not everything can or should be bussed, rods/screws are an obvious trap. When I look at the ring bus, if I see that a belt is getting too sparse or I see the inline storage is empty, then I expand its factory. Or if I know I'm going to need more X to build Y, then I can expand it ahead of time. If you want keep track, then you could just do it at the macro level knowing how many total X you build and how many total X you consume. Restarting every item from the ground up seems crazy to me. Let the factories of the past feed your future factories.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:59
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explosivo posted:Maybe a dumb question but when it comes to figuring out ratios like in that image, how are you all figuring out what you want your output to be? Is it just eyeballing a number you think you can achieve with your input or are you specifically factoring in a product you're trying to make with (in this example) those screws that makes you land on shooting for 120 screws/m? What do you do when you need to expand in that case? I've always played this game by trying to flood the conveyors with enough products so I don't have to worry about ratios but I'm beginning to understand why you can't always do that and am trying to go back and repair some jank parts of my factory that I made before I understood this concept. It seems I do the reverse of what everyone else mentions. I look exclusively at what is the maximum I can pull from a resource deposit. My limiting factor is either belt speed from a miner, or (overclocked) miner speed from a node, depending on current technology unlocks and node purity. From there I calculate forward depending on what end product I want. How many of X can I make from the 3 iron nodes here, the 2 copper nodes over there, and the 1 caterium node up there? Ok given I'll be making Y of those Xes per second final output, how many machines would then be required for each intermediate along the way? How many floors would that be? Et cetera. If I don't have a particular X in mind I'll just work forward from the node and try to consume the entire miner's output or belt's throughput in t oas high level intermediates as I can.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:13
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God I wish the scanner would stop scanning crash sites you already opened
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Apr 19, 2021 19:31
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In dumb dumb terms, can someone explain what I need to do differently with my coal set up to accommodate the new changes? I do a 6 coal generator/3 water extractor set up to start. Thanks.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:35
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Mayveena posted:In dumb dumb terms, can someone explain what I need to do differently with my coal set up to accommodate the new changes? I do a 6 coal generator/3 water extractor set up to start. Thanks. Since generators now operate at full load now instead of changing based on how much power is needed, check how much coal/water your generators need and make sure your miners are providing enough and your belts are able to keep up the flow. I currently got 10 generators going off 1 mk2 miner (at 125% overclock) and 2 water extractors that are 200% overclocked and its working fine
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Apr 19, 2021 19:44
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Mayveena posted:In dumb dumb terms, can someone explain what I need to do differently with my coal set up to accommodate the new changes? I do a 6 coal generator/3 water extractor set up to start. Thanks. For coal, it's 1 generator per 15 coal per minute, (So 60/m = 4) I tend to create setups for 120 coal/m which is 8 generators with 3 water exactors, but you want to stagger the exactors so they're balanced across the generators, like this diagram I stole from the wiki:  I do this because I'm usually setting up on pure nodes, so I get 120 coal from a mk1. When I get around to mk2s, I just split the line and create another 8 generator setup. I don't believe the new consumption rules would impact your 6/3 setup, provided you're feeding it 90 coal a minute or more?
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Apr 19, 2021 19:48
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Leal posted:God I wish the scanner would stop scanning crash sites you already opened That would be nice. As it is I build a lookout tower at every crash site I loot - they're very visible so I can generally tell from a distance I've already been there so I don't waste my time.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:52
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Tenebrais posted:That would be nice. As it is I build a lookout tower at every crash site I loot - they're very visible so I can generally tell from a distance I've already been there so I don't waste my time. This is a good one, I'm gonna be doing that
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Apr 19, 2021 19:54
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drat, pro loving tip right there.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:54
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Oxyclean posted:What do you mean the new changes? There's two normal coal nodes nearby so if I'm not feeding it 90 a minute I can get there. Thanks everyone.
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Apr 19, 2021 20:10
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explosivo posted:drat, pro loving tip right there. Between this and building walls/foundations like its Fortnite against aliens I feel like a complete dummy
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Apr 19, 2021 20:13
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I started a new save when the new patch went up on Experimental, and not that it's hit Early Access, I've just reached Tier 7. Dang, that new hoverpack is nice, huh? It's going to make building my factory way easier. I'm also thinking I might string some power all along the underside of my concrete platform so that no matter where I am, I can't fall all the way to the ground if I go outside of power range... once I get near the floor, the hidden electrical nodes should be in range and 'catch' me. What recipes are you guys using for Aluminium production in the new setup? It seems like the alternate blender recipe is about equal hassle to set up (fewer buildings, but you need to add sulfur in) and balances less power per unit of aluminum ore with higher resource requirements.
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Apr 19, 2021 20:26
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Bobulus posted:What recipes are you guys using for Aluminium production in the new setup? It seems like the alternate blender recipe is about equal hassle to set up (fewer buildings, but you need to add sulfur in) and balances less power per unit of aluminum ore with higher resource requirements. Messy Aluminum all the way. Since there is a ton of coal and oil now on the plateau where the majority of the baux is, and a nearby quartz that can be converted to silicon, you can make a ton of Aluminum and slurry that you can ship all over the place with drones. Efficient? Probably not. But allows that self contained factory to run independent. Especially with the blenders fuel doubling. Sulfur is now the limiter when going into nuclear. Easier to dedicate some more buildings for less efficiency to avoid that bottleneck.
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Apr 19, 2021 20:39
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Nukelear v.2 posted:
Sweet, this is exactly what I needed. I can think 4-5 steps ahead in a puzzle game but figuring out what should be simple math for setups like these and my eyes just glaze over. Yet I still love this stuff, I just wing it and adjust when needed.
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Apr 19, 2021 21:34
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Yeah those stackable designs rule, tyvm for posting them. Also I'm a loving idiot and just realized I built my only two oil platforms I have right now on two impure nodes. That would probably explain my crude oil shortage. 
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Apr 19, 2021 21:55
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Please take this as a 100% honest question, but for y'all who are happy to build stuff to a pattern designed by someone else, what is it about the game that you really enjoy? I know there are other parts to the game like exploration, but if you showed me a hypothetical satisfactory where the factories came in big pre-made chunks that just kinda did the whole process in one block, I'd call that an objectively bad game. The world's neat, but not particularly amazing compared to the average big open-world game. The core element of the genre (if you can call half a dozen games a genre) seems to me the idea of solving a free-form puzzle, where I have stuff and I need to make stuff, but the design of the stuff machine is non-obvious. So while I don't think anyone should have to engage with things they don't want to do, I also don't see why play Satisfactory or Factorio, versus minecraft or vanheim or something instead? (And you're in no way isolated weirdos, factorio's online blueprint compendium is popular enough that it's 1/2 of their copy protection. I don't get it there either.)
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Apr 20, 2021 05:38
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Klyith posted:Please take this as a 100% honest question, but for y'all who are happy to build stuff to a pattern designed by someone else, what is it about the game that you really enjoy? I know there are other parts to the game like exploration, but if you showed me a hypothetical satisfactory where the factories came in big pre-made chunks that just kinda did the whole process in one block, I'd call that an objectively bad game. The world's neat, but not particularly amazing compared to the average big open-world game. If stuff like the auto-generated graphs from Satisfactory Tools counts, I suppose it's a combination of the grind being inherently satisfying and the challenge of taking those graphs and working out the logistics of making them a functional building. Even if it's all calculated ahead of time you still have to figure the layout for floor space, how the belts/pipes are going to work, how to source all the materials and then get the end product where it needs to go. Right now I need to start producing 50 heavy modular frames per minute which is a relatively large project, working out how to actually go about doing it and then making it a reality is the fun part. quote:(And you're in no way isolated weirdos, factorio's online blueprint compendium is popular enough that it's 1/2 of their copy protection. I don't get it there either.) Speaking of blueprints, the game director more or less confirmed them in a recent Q&A video after being cagey for as long as I can remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yqc4z9NPI8 I know that's been a sticking point for a lot of people for a long time and hope they manage to find a good medium between cutting down on tedium and just copy + pasting an entire factory from some online database.
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Apr 20, 2021 06:15
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These games are some of the best Number Go Up games around. For me it's having a goal that is functionally impossible to complete manually and creating the means to efficiently realize that goal. I haven't felt such personal satisfaction for a long time in a game than I did completing a Dyson Sphere in DSP. Made all the work that went into it worth the time.
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Apr 20, 2021 06:43
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Klyith posted:Please take this as a 100% honest question, but for y'all who are happy to build stuff to a pattern designed by someone else, what is it about the game that you really enjoy? I know there are other parts to the game like exploration, but if you showed me a hypothetical satisfactory where the factories came in big pre-made chunks that just kinda did the whole process in one block, I'd call that an objectively bad game. The world's neat, but not particularly amazing compared to the average big open-world game. All premade layouts/blueprints/etc do is make the units you're building more complicated. It's a building full of constructors at a go instead of a constructor. After the 200th time I've slapped down a splitter manifold I'm pretty sure I get it and already have mentally moved on to solving bigger problems like how I'm gonna get all the steel I need over here, even while I'm still plopping down the same old splitter manifold.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:30
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I started my game yesterday and noticed I had an update, now the build preview things look worse, you can't tell the difference between input and output ends on a building while looking directly at one of them and foundation previews look lower quality. Anybody know what that's about? I've also noticed things on conveyor belts just not showing up, basically some belts will just turn everything on them invisible.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:47
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A Moose posted:I started my game yesterday and noticed I had an update, now the build preview things look worse, you can't tell the difference between input and output ends on a building while looking directly at one of them and foundation previews look lower quality. Anybody know what that's about? The latest patch changed the hologram appearances, yeah. They're taking feedback on this stuff. Items being invisible on conveyors is a known issue coming out of Experimental - one of the changes made for Update 4 was a more efficient system for displaying items on conveyors and I guess this a bug out of that. It doesn't materially affect your play, at least; the items are all still there.
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Apr 20, 2021 14:04
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The only visual glitch that's really bugged me so far is the ladder draw distance. I assume it's the same performance improvements that the belts got but the way they pop in and out suddenly is a bit jarring. Of course shortly after getting annoyed by that I unlocked zip lines and hover packs so I don't need ladders anymore, so I guess it's a non issue? 
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Apr 20, 2021 14:26
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I unlocked aluminum processing and definitely had a "I think I'm done for tonight...." moment with this last night lol. I really want to start working my way towards drones so I need to buckle down and get to it but I gotta spin up a whole new factory again. The cosmic ballet goes on.. 
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Apr 20, 2021 14:37
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On the plus side, once you have them drones are a massive force multiplier. Suddenly you can move around all those low volume items without necessarily having to set up train stations. I’m still wrapping my head around the possibilities
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Apr 20, 2021 14:45
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Klyith posted:Please take this as a 100% honest question, but for y'all who are happy to build stuff to a pattern designed by someone else, what is it about the game that you really enjoy? I know there are other parts to the game like exploration, but if you showed me a hypothetical satisfactory where the factories came in big pre-made chunks that just kinda did the whole process in one block, I'd call that an objectively bad game. The world's neat, but not particularly amazing compared to the average big open-world game. Are you talking about the production planners or the blueprints? The production planners are just a mathematical expression, right? At the end of the day I use the production planner for the same reason I use Excel spreadsheets. Yes I could do the math on a handheld calculator and write all the results down and do more math, but why do that if there's something that will do it for me? I think the geographical challenges are there as well. I don't see Satisfactory as an open world game anyway, it'd be really bare compared to other open world games. But for me, the game is still a challenge in placement and logistics. I don't plan on using blueprints myself. It's the main reason I don't play Factorio. When I heard of multiplayer Factorio with randos (I know, shouldn't do that anyway) resulting in the randos just placing down imported blueprints and telling the drones to have at it, I see no place for me in that world.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:38
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It'll be interesting to see how they solve blueprints. While in Factorio or DSP conveyor belts are individual item squares that you can chain together, the ones in Satisfactory are defined by start and end which need to connect up to things. You can't just place two conveyors next to each other and assume they'll connect unless you tell them to. They could just not include any conveyor or pipe that doesn't have both ends within the blueprint, but then you'll still have to manually hook up all the splitters in your repeatable manufacturer manifold or what have you.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:51
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Tenebrais posted:It'll be interesting to see how they solve blueprints. While in Factorio or DSP conveyor belts are individual item squares that you can chain together, the ones in Satisfactory are defined by start and end which need to connect up to things. You can't just place two conveyors next to each other and assume they'll connect unless you tell them to. They could just not include any conveyor or pipe that doesn't have both ends within the blueprint, but then you'll still have to manually hook up all the splitters in your repeatable manufacturer manifold or what have you. I imagine that belts (splitters, etc) have data tags that say what they're connected to, and the blueprint would copy the relevant tags.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:54
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In Factorio I only really used the blueprints for the tedious stuff like building walls and defensive structures once I had more materials than god himself. These are handy diagrams for me to look at and get ideas, not necessarily something I plan on stamping out in a factory. People can play how they want to though so whatever, I just won't use them. I can imagine at a certain point though if you have enough of everything that you're just ramping up production to see what is the upper limit then stamping out factories like ploppables in sim city could be appealing.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:58
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Blueprints allow mass production of proven designs, rather than laboriously hand crafting/building each setup. Work smarter, not harder. Once you've set up your tenth identical smelting array, you sorta want to streamline the process, ya know?
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Apr 20, 2021 16:08
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Tenebrais posted:It'll be interesting to see how they solve blueprints. While in Factorio or DSP conveyor belts are individual item squares that you can chain together, the ones in Satisfactory are defined by start and end which need to connect up to things. You can't just place two conveyors next to each other and assume they'll connect unless you tell them to. They could just not include any conveyor or pipe that doesn't have both ends within the blueprint, but then you'll still have to manually hook up all the splitters in your repeatable manufacturer manifold or what have you. The main thing I'd like out of a blueprint is just to quickly place down a building and have it automatically place down splitters, mergers, conveyer lifts, support poles (either pipes or conveyors), and power poles based on a blueprint I made. If I have to hook up the actual belts and pipes, that's fine, it will still cut down about 80% of the tedium of setting up a line. I still want a copy/paste building setting that can be done without entering the building's menu.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:10
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They really should at least include something like the SMART! mod, where making one building and making a dozen of the same building in a row takes roughly the same effort.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:11
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Tamba posted:They really should at least include something like the SMART! mod, where making one building and making a dozen of the same building in a row takes roughly the same effort. Does this mod let me lay down entire factory floors at once because if yes I want that
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Apr 20, 2021 16:16
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To me, blueprints are just another stage of automation on the regional scale. This is one of the factors of DSP I rather like in that you can extend this idea to the planetary scale as well. I don't like using blueprints I haven't designed myself and even then I only use them for specific things (like tiling out smelting arrays). Playing multiplayer Factorio with someone of a very different design philosophy than myself was a transcendent experience.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:19
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So, random question, how far away does something have to be before you use a truck to move it vs 1 really long conveyor belt? Or how much of it do you have to use?
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Apr 20, 2021 16:25
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blue prints wouldn't be necessary if you have some way of upgrading your buildings beyond the overclock limit i am still bitter about the obnoxious-to-do powerplant sprawl
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Apr 20, 2021 16:38
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explosivo posted:Does this mod let me lay down entire factory floors at once because if yes I want that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7jHpKhhqaY e: and the more recent versions can also mass connect belts and splitters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkfqByx0i0 Tamba fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 16:40
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