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How soon do we think we will get a verdict? As far as I know it could take days? And I suspect Chauvin could appeal as well?
Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 19, 2021 |
# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:22 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:54 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:How soon do we think we will get a verdict? And I suspect Chauvin could appeal as well? Appeal is pretty much a given. The judge even told the defense they should file that relatively quickly.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:24 |
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Velocity Raptor posted:Appeal is pretty much a given. The judge even told the defense they should file that relatively quickly. Ugh.... Granted, I totally I get that people have a right to appeal have to go through this whole process again is awful.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:26 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:How soon do we think we will get a verdict? As far as I know it could take days? And I suspect Chauvin could appeal as well? https://mobile.twitter.com/SahanJournal/status/1384255100571439105 https://mobile.twitter.com/SahanJournal/status/1384255110570643459 https://mobile.twitter.com/SahanJournal/status/1384255118611079179 https://mobile.twitter.com/SahanJournal/status/1384255120469151751 From the linked story: quote:So how long will this take? It’s hard to say, [former head public defender Mary] Moriarty said. Basically nobody knows, probably not long, and you shouldn't read anything into how long it is/isn't taking.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:29 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Ugh.... If it's any consolation, an appeal isn't a whole new trial. The appellate court simply reads through the records and verifies that everything was handled properly. https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-cases/appeals quote:Appeals are decided by panels of three judges working together. The appellant presents legal arguments to the panel, in writing, in a document called a "brief." In the brief, the appellant tries to persuade the judges that the trial court made an error, and that its decision should be reversed.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:29 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Ugh.... As an FYI, if an appeals trial is granted, it will be years in the future. The appeals process is very long and requires a high bar to be even granted an appeals trial. I think it's impossible to say at this point if it's likely or not likely that an appeals trial will be granted along with any possible outcomes (any law goons, please correct me if I'm wrong).
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:32 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:How soon do we think we will get a verdict? As far as I know it could take days? And I suspect Chauvin could appeal as well? The verdict is probably tomorrow or Wednesday, but it's entirely up to the jurors. A notice of appeal will follow relatively quickly but the appeal itself takes a while - Mohamed Noor was sentenced June 2019 and the state court of appeals upheld his conviction this February. To make things more complicated, the state supreme court has agreed to hear Noor's appeal about whether 3rd-degree murder applies to an act targeted at a particular person, but hasn't resolved it yet. If Chauvin is acquitted on murder 2 (which seems fairly likely) and convicted on the lessers, his murder 3 conviction will hang on what happens in the Noor case later this year. (If it's upheld, Chauvin will move on to the other appellate issues - whatever objections defense counsel preserved at trial, Maxine Waters learning why you say "no comment while the case is ongoing", so on.)
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 22:50 |
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I really liked the rebuttal argument but really the defense did do a meticulous job of drawing out the evidence in mitigation. Reading the tea leaves: manslaughterGaupo Guacho posted:maxine waters is a loving dumbass Well, yes.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:02 |
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quote:He also reminded jurors that Minneapolis police take an oath to protect with courage, and said it might be difficult to "imagine a police officer doing something like this,” but reminded jurors that they were asked during jury selection to set aside any preconceived notions about police officers. I gotta say I think the prosecutor did a great job and threw in a terrific closing statement. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 19, 2021 |
# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:07 |
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I gotta say I think the prosecutor did a great job and threw in a terrific closing statement. i am guessing 3rd degree probably and manslaughter. maybe even 2nd degree.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:08 |
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i am guessing 3rd degree probably and manslaughter. maybe even 2nd degree. I suspect if Chauvin skates any charges it'll be murder 2, but I think murder 3 and or manslaughter are pretty much a given with how the police chiefs testified against him. Out of anything and the video and facts itself I think that sealed his fate. If he gets murder 2, he's dying in prison.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:10 |
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The prosecutorial misconduct line is 100% for appeal. I'm an Canadian lawyer, but it is my understanding that in order to win an appeal on that issue, even in the states, you need to bring it up during the trial itself. You can just sit on it and not bring it up. Now, I don't think he'll win on that, but you want to use every card you can.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:11 |
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Nelson Mandingo posted:If he gets murder 2, he's dying in prison. Why's this?
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:12 |
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Whats the difference between murder 3 and manslaughter in minnesota?
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:19 |
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Whats the difference between murder 3 and manslaughter in minnesota? Dude this was just covered a page ago.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:22 |
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Whats the difference between murder 3 and manslaughter in minnesota? Murder charges I posted earlier Kalit posted:The specifics on these charges can vary between states, I believe. I am not a lawyer, but here's the local newspaper summary: Here's manslaughter: quote:What is second-degree manslaughter? Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Apr 19, 2021 |
# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:24 |
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Maybe they’ll stretch the verdict til April 29th for maximum Rodney King parallelism.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:25 |
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Gaupo Guacho posted:maxine waters is a loving dumbass Maxine Waters is also 100% correct in that Police response to not one, but two police shootings is to aggressively harass and attack protestors demanding accountability.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:27 |
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Gaupo Guacho posted:maxine waters is a loving dumbass I would not recommend you saying that if you ever visit LA.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:31 |
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Is it normal for juries to compromise when they don't all agree on all the charges? I've read the jury instructions, and it does say that the charges are to be considered separately, so it seems that they're not supposed to do that, but are there actual consequences if they do? And do juries that do not unanimously agree on everything commonly do that? Like if 9 people want to convict on murder 3, and 7 people want to convict on murder 2, is it commonplace for them to just say, "OK, we'll unanimously convict on 3 and acquit on 2 to avoid a hung jury"?
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:31 |
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Yoshi Wins posted:Is it normal for juries to compromise when they don't all agree on all the charges? I've read the jury instructions, and it does say that the charges are to be considered separately, so it seems that they're not supposed to do that, but are there actual consequences if they do? And do juries that do not unanimously agree on everything commonly do that? Like if 9 people want to convict on murder 3, and 7 people want to convict on murder 2, is it commonplace for them to just say, "OK, we'll unanimously convict on 3 and acquit on 2 to avoid a hung jury"? Fun fact: by and large, what happens in a jury room is a black box to the legal system. You put the evidence in and the jury spits a verdict out, and the court can only pry into what happened in the jury room in very, very limited circumstances, more or less only in situations where the jury discriminated against the defendant on a protected category. So even if they say "consider them separately," there's nothing really stopping them from coming to a compromise like that.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:35 |
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CommieGIR posted:Maxine Waters is also 100% correct in that Police response to not one, but two police shootings is to aggressively harass and attack protestors demanding accountability. this is all inherently obvious but I guess ill state it for clarity
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:36 |
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Gaupo Guacho posted:who gives a poo poo if she's correct? the point is that if she gives the defense even a slight chance to successfully plead for a mistrial because she had to opine on the verdict before it happens then she's giving Chavun a lifeline. the most important thing right now is that this guy actually serves real jail time You could say the same about the entire marches in protest, but given that this pathetic defense is being laughed off by both the judge and nearly everyone in law: Its stupid to claim anything different. Regardless of the judge's words as well, we have a broken Justice system that is wringing Black Americans dry through abuse and murder, something has to change, and its bigger than Chauvin. Because regardless of the verdict at this point, its entirely about holding police accountable, and Chauvin isn't the only one to hold accountable now. Its worth noting that Maxine's words are being taken ENTIRELY out of context to reinforce Right Wing propaganda, so good job reinforcing it as a valid defense tactic? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Apr 19, 2021 |
# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:40 |
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Teddybear posted:Fun fact: by and large, what happens in a jury room is a black box to the legal system. You put the evidence in and the jury spits a verdict out, and the court can only pry into what happened in the jury room in very, very limited circumstances, more or less only in situations where the jury discriminated against the defendant on a protected category. So even if they say "consider them separately," there's nothing really stopping them from coming to a compromise like that. That's interesting, and I think that sounds more good than bad. Thanks for the info.
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# ? Apr 19, 2021 23:56 |
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Gaupo Guacho posted:who gives a poo poo if she's correct? the point is that if she gives the defense even a slight chance to successfully plead for a mistrial because she had to opine on the verdict before it happens then she's giving Chavun a lifeline. the most important thing right now is that this guy actually serves real jail time TBH, I would be shocked if that was a factor in an appeals. She has nothing to do with the trial and the jury was given instructions to not watch the news. So unless a juror admitted they heard that news, I cannot imagine it being a consideration. Warning: I am not a lawyer, so I might be 100% wrong. E: As an addendum, I do agree with you that she shouldn't have made a public statement about the outcome of the trial because of news outlets picking it up before the verdict. But I would say the chances of it actually affecting an appeals hearing is nearly 0% Kalit fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 20, 2021 |
# ? Apr 20, 2021 00:03 |
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Given Trump's and political celebrities comments on court cases I highly doubt it'll have any impact. Right-wing media will eat it up as they as always do and we should avoid feeding them. That said, it was not a wise decision.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 00:11 |
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Gort posted:Why's this? He's probably getting the full run-up if he gets murder 2. That's like 30+ years in prison and he's already in his 40's.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 00:14 |
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Don't cops get a lot of poo poo from the other inmates in prison as well?
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 00:49 |
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Velocity Raptor posted:Don't cops get a lot of poo poo from the other inmates in prison as well? Oh totally, but that usually also means they get priority protection from the wardens
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 01:00 |
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This is anecdotal but it can show what kind of nonsense decides people’s fates. I served on a civil jury and it was, in my opinion and everyone elses, a no brainer decision and we had one holdout who didn’t want to award any money. We ended up agreeing to find the defendant liable and then voted yes/no with each yes vote being worth 1/12 of some amount we calculated previously. So the plaintiff got 11/12 of the amount we decided was appropriate and that one juror went home satisfied. None of this negotiation at all was relayed to the judge, lawyers, or people involved. All we handed them was the verdict and amount.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 01:16 |
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SchnorkIes posted:I feel like all these murder 2/3 etc laws in various states exist specifically so that you can feel good about letting basically anyone off the hook. So vague, so hard to pin down if you weren't there. See Rittenhouse also No? The act of killing is perhaps one of the most complicated legal things. A sane country would have an extremely granular and multifacted approach to determing premeditation, culpability, responsibility, and other aspects if it would make any sense. American justice system is pretty bad but this isn’t a place to criticize it at. You killing a person in traffic isn’t the same as your mom killing a person in self defence which is not the same as police officer klling justifiably which is not the same as a contract killer flying to another city to kill someone.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 01:18 |
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Velocity Raptor posted:Don't cops get a lot of poo poo from the other inmates in prison as well? Lol this is actually kind of bullshit. The level of ignorance lost people have about prison dynamics is fairly high. I mean no disrespect but generalities don't usually hold weight in prisons. Guards and white supremacists are basically hand in hand colluding. So the fact that derek chauvin killed a (insert favorite anti black slurr here) means he is a protected hero by the guard-supremacist alliance that exists in many prisons and the black/nation of islam gangs,, asian gangs, and hispanic gangs are not going to knife derek chauvin as they'd lose their drug pipeline which allows control of the majority of prison functions and prisoners. Sorry for my all over the place explanation. There really is no good way to get my point across without delving deep into prison culture in a way that forum posting just wont relay. I haven't been in any prisons etc but being in the Army made me more receptive to the knowledge on the invisible side of this issue.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 01:23 |
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Lol this is actually kind of bullshit. The level of ignorance lost people have about prison dynamics is fairly high. I'd really be interested in a prison culture post/thread because we incarcerate more than anyone in the US and because of that it's a really serious part of the US and US politics that most [white] people are blind to.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 01:57 |
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Jaxyon posted:I'd really be interested in a prison culture post/thread because we incarcerate more than anyone in the US and because of that it's a really serious part of the US and US politics that most [white] people are blind to.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 01:59 |
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Jaxyon posted:I'd really be interested in a prison culture post/thread because we incarcerate more than anyone in the US and because of that it's a really serious part of the US and US politics that most [white] people are blind to. There was a prison stories thread which I think was on SA which had a lot of poo poo in it.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 02:08 |
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Jaxyon posted:I would not recommend you saying that if you ever visit LA. Noted peaceful utopia and well-run city LA.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 03:24 |
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Jaxyon posted:I'd really be interested in a prison culture post/thread because we incarcerate more than anyone in the US and because of that it's a really serious part of the US and US politics that most [white] people are blind to. I've been going down the rabbit hole on US Prison life the last few weeks on Youtube. Check out a channel called 'Fresh Out', its a guy who interviews ex prisoners from all over. There are loads though. Also has an amazing interview of an ex-mafia guy with stories you would never think of.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 06:16 |
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happyhippy posted:Also has an amazing interview of an ex-mafia guy with stories you would never think of.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 08:04 |
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:2nd is unpremeditated best of the moment, 3rd is felony murder or murder where you just had callous disregard and didn’t think “Imma kill this guy” How is that different from manslaughter? EDIT: I should have scrolled down. Lots of answers.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 09:45 |
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I suspect if Chauvin skates any charges it'll be murder 2, but I think murder 3 and or manslaughter are pretty much a given with how the police chiefs testified against him. Out of anything and the video and facts itself I think that sealed his fate. You can be convicted for more than one of these? I would have thought being convicted of one, precludes be convicted of the others.
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 09:56 |