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bit too tired/busy lately for a full effortpost, but re: Ashe I do have a thought for folks to chew on If Graven Ashe signed on with Kyros to protect those he actually cared about, say his troops at the time, that was a few centuries ago. Of those folks, what's left of em these days? Old age, disease, battle, plenty of means for them to have passed over the years; and now not even their name or icon remains. At best, Ashe has... The various sons and daughters of those people. Or great-grandchildren at this point. People who joined the disfavored as it is now and at best heard stories from their grandparents about what it was actually like before; people who before joining only knew Graven Ashe from stories as well. disfavored being a walking mockery of their predecessor isn't really new, but the full degree of that mockery had some deep roots for Ashe and the whole pride of the north deal, huh of course, Graven Ashe disbanding the disfavored outright would mean admitting surrendering to Kyros so long ago was ultimately for nothing as most/all the people he did it for died anyways  think that's a big reason why/how Ashe ended up in their dissonant state of "Ashe's idea of Kyros-Loyalty" and "Ashe purposefully wasting disfavored lives on suicide missions until they (sometimes) win anyways" e: this is certainly a way to kick off a new page 
Arcanuse fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 09:42
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Arcanuse posted:bit too tired/busy lately for a full effortpost, but re: Ashe I do have a thought for folks to chew on The game has already stated that Ashe is less than 100 years old and even if he's close to that, assume that he's into the third or fourth generation of northern-born followers now. Those that join "now", as in shortly before the Tiers Campaign most likely learned about the events only through the lense of later generations, like modern children learn about WW2 do it now, and I guess mostly don't care.
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Apr 13, 2021 13:50
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bob dobbs is dead posted:can we skip the bastards wound this time Nah, show up and murder everyone for sweet loot and xp.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:48
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Speaking of, now that we've seen the ending slides; if you don't immediately condemn the Wound and kill everyone who refuses to scat, you have no choice but to put one of the trolley war criminals in charge or take it for yourself, unless you managed to thread the byzantine needle of convincing Reef-Talon to come back (which was literally impossible on release if you happened to check out the murals before clearing the dungeon and finding her). The ending slide you get in case you picked the option that involved killing both of them goes on to explain that the Fatebinder did actually try to lead the Wound, but did a real half-assed job, mostly corresponding with them via messenger birds, leading it to eventually fall into disrepair and being abandoned. If we do go there again, it should only be to show off the "everyone get the gently caress out" option. There is nothing else worth seeing there.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:54
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Donkringel posted:Nah, show up and murder everyone for sweet loot and xp. Bastard's Wound is clearly infected and the governor needs to lance the wound. 
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Apr 13, 2021 23:42
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Mr.Misfit posted:The game has already stated that Ashe is less than 100 years old and even if he's close to that, assume that he's into the third or fourth generation of northern-born followers now. Hruh. Gave the wiki another look, and I did indeed get the time wrong. closer to 100~ after signing on with kyros, guessing at most 40 years pre-service, than a combined 300+ years. Not quite as drastic a passing of time as I had thought.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:08
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Speaking of, now that we've seen the ending slides; if you don't immediately condemn the Wound and kill everyone who refuses to scat, you have no choice but to put one of the trolley war criminals in charge or take it for yourself, unless you managed to thread the byzantine needle of convincing Reef-Talon to come back (which was literally impossible on release if you happened to check out the murals before clearing the dungeon and finding her). I was about to say that ending of Bastard's Wound makes a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Fatebinder suddenly becomes a unifying leader of the Tiers. Delegation for that kind of poo poo is important. But then I had the thought literally while typing it that Bastard's Wound still doesn't make sense in that context, because there's no reason to LIVE THERE anymore. Toxic water, constant bane attacks, Kyros is no longer the authority so merely having entered it isn't a death sentence anymore.... What are they still hiding from at that point?
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Apr 14, 2021 02:35
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Keldulas posted:I was about to say that ending of Bastard's Wound makes a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Fatebinder suddenly becomes a unifying leader of the Tiers. Delegation for that kind of poo poo is important. Themselves
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Apr 14, 2021 03:35
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It's possible that Ashe used to be a skilled tactician but by now he's been flanderised by the belief of generations of Disfavoured into being what they think - just attack right up the middle and win by inherent superiority.
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Apr 14, 2021 03:52
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In my opinion we've hit the part where it's basically a question of "bad or perhaps just unexpected writing but it's a video game or perhaps even worthwhile fiction so I'll mentally autocorrect to something less stupid" on the one hand and on the other hand "maybe there's a meaningful thing in there." So for example you'll wonder why Frodo ends up with despondent WW1 type shell shock despite his PTSD being caused by a continent sized wild hunt which should logically cause the high strung hyperawareness and fatigue one. Which isn't really a given so it's worth ignoring. Here you're asking things like "why didn't the big famous general figure out that when facing a single person and existential threat that has no recourse, retreat or reserves, you should hit them with overwhelming force" and the answer is that you shouldn't ask too much from video games. Let's be honest too, we still haven't seen a single military commander who knew how to wipe their own rear end. We're at the franchise expanded universe novel tier of military ideas here, where the author has nothing and the rebels are successful because, gently caress I have another to write for star wars and two for battletech, let's not waste time, ah, the rebels know the terrain. SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Apr 14, 2021 |
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Apr 14, 2021 05:20
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Keldulas posted:What are they still hiding from at that point? Intelligence.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:10
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Some people just really love living in caves, okay?
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Apr 16, 2021 20:44
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Keldulas posted:What are they still hiding from at that point? Well, the two moron leaders have fairly powerful people who would justifiably murder the poo poo out of them still running around. So, that.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:39
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Keldulas posted:I was about to say that ending of Bastard's Wound makes a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Fatebinder suddenly becomes a unifying leader of the Tiers. Delegation for that kind of poo poo is important. They don't want to pay taxes.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:09
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Governor Boris and the Vicious Beating Last time on Tyranny, we rolled up a new character and visited our favorite two fuckup Archons. Today we're going to be wandering around Act 1 and doing stuff.  Verse's conversation from last time procs (where she wants to know how we casually dropped the Edict) and it's the same save for the reference to the Edict of Storms.  We can actually try to chat up Ashe, though!  There are all these little hints as to the true characterization of the Archons. It never crosses Ashe's mind we knew about the Disfavored combat units he sent after Amelia, or that us delaying would have given him time to pull them out. Of course, now that the Edict affects him he whines like a punk.  Alas, Ashe's quest to see Kyros naked is never getting anywhere. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Not sure if he has time to chat if he likes us more?  We haven't seen Ceveus before in game so we get this (no hugs) but we still get the quest to retrieve the three Earthshakers who could be spared from Colonialism Treason Fort.  This guy gives out the "recover the iron Graven Ashe covered up" quest. He's got a bit to say about iron and bronze. Basically iron is more plentiful and easier to smith.  Boris is gonna show off some of the dialog we didn't see before.   : It was mentioned you're short on warriors and need help. What's the situation?TheGreatEvilKing whiffed the screenshot and is using the prior playthrough posted:: The Disfavored need my help?This is the reason we're going through this dialog again. I'll be honest, Act 1 is extremely samey across all four playthroughs, with only the rebel route changing the ending (you fight against the Disfavored/Chorus as they take the tower rather than with them).  : Trying to pour salt on my pride? We left Fort Resolution with a hundred on hundred and there have been no reinforcements or reservers. I keep throwing warriors back into battle before they're properly rested. So yes, I need to rely on all our allies - especially since most of our allies are conscripted Tiersmen - worse than useless!You can ALMOST see Erenyos putting two and two together, and failing. Now, I'm not sure what she means by a hundred on hundred - I assume that's multiplied, or ten thousand men. That sounds like a lot, but some googling indicates that was about a third of Caesar's gallic invasion force or half the size of Ramses the Great's "advance guard" (per Britannica) at the battle of Kadesh. Of course, because of the Disfavored's idiotic racism, they can't actually recruit more soldiers, even though they have the exclusive use of the Forge-Bound's iron production capacity and trainers like Erenyos here.  This is also true!  : She has a point. The Disfavored constantly mock the Scarlet Chorus.This is the correct answer, incidentally.   : What you're seeing here is Disfavored bigotry at its finest. I'm sonehow at fault because my country wasn't conquered before I was born.   Charming, you racist bitch. This is of course ironic in the Disfavored ending where you rally the Disfavored against Kyros. We may or may not see that. From here on out the dialog is the same, Erenyos tells us about the absolute failure at the Matani river, she assigns us Barik to assist, etc.  Based on your decisions in Conquest you can start the game knowing Barik. We tried to save you, buddy.  I know Barik is a brainwashed fascist guy, but I can't hate him because he's as much victim as villain.  He even thanks us for arbitrarily picking the legion in Conquest. I'm omitting a lot of dialog because we've seen it before, perils of a second playthrough.  Given the Iron Marshal just told Ashe a few minutes ago that Barik's band was being drilled to attack the river, I'm not sure what she's talking about here. I have an idea based on her prior dialogue, which I'll repost below: Fascism at its finest posted:The Tiersmen aren't "really" a threat in the fascist mindset, because as Umberto Eco points out, the fascist mindset usually runs head first into reality and falls flat on its face. Northern Disfavored >>> Tiersmen, therefore the assault on the river will be a success despite the last minute command change. Nevermind that the previous commander failed to capture the river, nevermind that Erenyos is complaining that the Disfavored are constantly low on troops and are very near the breaking point, the important thing is winning the political battle with the Scarlet Chorus. I know I made fun of the infighting and incompetence earlier, but it bears repeating.  This silence is wide open to interpretation. Does Barik realize that Erenyos is bullshitting but is too obedient to criticize his superior officer? Who knows! Moving on!  Hagnon has the Sigil of Guarded Form, which I really want but I have no money after blowing it all on sigils.  People in the thread wanted to see Ebchat, so here it is.  Truce flag, yadda yadda yadda.  : In accordance with ancient customs north and south, I abide by this truce. : As is our custom, we are ready to kill to defend our lands, but we kill only in fair battle, we don't slay our prisoners. We know this isn't Kyros' way, but we must have hope. I didn't notice this on the first playthrough, but Eb refers to the captains as "my kin", confirming that the rebellion is just one big happy family. : Tarkis Demos is with the Chorus now. Oops.  : Pelox Tyrel is dead.: She nods slowly, saying nothing for a long moment,: My apologies Fatebinder, I had a terrible feeling this errand was in vain from the start. Now, the ability to interrogate Eb was patched in post-release, if I remember right. Let's pump her for information about our enemies. : I have some questions for you. Shut the gently caress up, Barik!  : How did you and your friends overthrow the garrison?Cleopatra's playthrough posted: : Were there prisoner swaps in the past?: That is our way, Binder. Here in the south, only thugs and bandits kill prisoners. The Younger Realms may be guilty of constant fighting, but we never slay each other when the battle's long over. We're not about to change that now. Hmmm, has Graven Ashe been, as Barik put it, "socializing with the oathbreakers"? (Spoiler: yes) : Who's in charge of this insurrection?  To be fair, this is my usual reaction when people start talking about how they're a collective and no one's in charge, but in this case it's a military organization. Yes, the Sages showed up and are nominally aligned as auxiliaries, and Eb married into the upper echelons, but it's still military. Everyone we see from the Vendrien Guard is some kind of military aristocrat who can afford expensive custom bronze armor, and it's a movement less about removing Kyros and more about putting the old nobility back on top again. Go back to what Eb said about understanding being their only hope - on the rebel path, the rebels reach out to the Fatebinder and offer to join the Court of Tunon for a better deal and higher positions in Kyros' organization. You can even take them into the stupid loyalist ending. : I assume Tarkis Arri and Tarkis Demos are relations. : Why do you resist Kyros? What are you trying to save? : Only your daughters are really free in the Tiers. Why fight against Kyros' equality? Eb is going to continue to shoot her cause in the foot here. : But a mage like you would not be the subject of such superstition and fear under Kyros' reign.: Doubt life is any better sworn to some mad Archon. I'd rather stand with my fellow Tiersmen... or I suppose, stand immediately behind them in the event of an attack. Later in the game, on another playthrough posted:Bonus points: Eb, and the rest of the Tidecasters, were sworn to the service of Occulted Jade. Jade doesn't seem like a bad person, but it's very hard for me to take Eb whining about swearing allegiance to Archons seriously. : At that remark, the soldiers flanking her exchange shocked looks. Eb turns her focus to her compatriots.  : The Younger Realms were beset with constant battle. You'd prefer that to Kyros' order? On first glance, it's easy to say that Eb has a point about how Kyros' guys are coming in and brutally slaughtering everyone in a way that the peaceful-yet-warlike denizens of the Tiers find absolutely unprecedented and appalling, but it's absolute horseshit. Eb, on the treatment of Beastmen posted:Now, one may reasonably argue that this is "just" generations of slavery which isn't quite butchering Beastmen tribes, but luckily we actually have a source for the latter. Reef-Talon, on Beastman slaughter posted:
So Straydus Herodin basically wiped out a Beastman tribe and enslaved the survivors. Reef-Talon even alludes to Tiersmen killing and eating Beastmen. I'll leave Kills-in-Shadow bragging that the Shadowhunters exterminated two other tribes out of this, as Killsy is not part of this little rebellion, but everything Eb says is bullshit. Sure, the Tiersmen never cast an Edict, but they've never had the opportunity and ability to do so. We haven't seen them make prisoners fight to the death, but we have seen the denizens of the Bastard's Wound slowly torture Telesophia. We can't even back up Eb's assertion that "it was never this wholesale slaughter", because the history of Azure is constant invasions to the point where the country became known for fighting off invaders. It all ties back into the greater theme that incompetent leadership allows for the rise of tyrants. It's really hard for someone like Kyros to come to power when citizens are fed and happy and enjoy the status quo because they can have nice things. It's not a coincidence you get people like Hitler in governmental disasters like the Weimar Republic, or Lenin and Stalin after the Tsar/Kerensky's idiotic continuation of World War I. Tiers Leadership Explains How Bad It Is posted:Eb doesn't really have good answers to Boris' questions. It's telling her reply to "Kyros will end sexism" is to reply that sexism is good because men are dumb morons, because I guarantee you that attitude drove a lot of men to join the Scarlet Chorus. Her response to the mage question is basically agreeing with Boris that she was treated like poo poo, and her response about Kyros killing everyone is less a defense of the Tiersmen's attitudes then their capabilities. The problem with the Vendrien Guard is that they are fighting for the old status quo, and the old status quo was bad! : What makes you think you have a chance? Ok, and then what? You all die, losing the Tiers a competent military organization and a bunch of mages that take literal decades to train per our adjudication with Bitter Quip. Eb never gives an answer to who the "others" are, and no one really rises up to take on the exact mantle of the Vendrien Guard. The Unbroken are fighting each other to end the Edict. The Stonestalkers just want to be left alone. The Bronze Brotherhood is following the delusions of a mad clown. The Earthshakers and Forge-Bound remain loyal to Kyros if you do not recruit them. There are no other uprisings in the Tiers to defend the old status quo, because it was lovely and bad! The Unbroken are probably the closest, and even then, they're struggling to define their identity as "Stalwart to come". These guys aren't liberators, they're just angry reactionaries. : Let me ask of something else. : That's all.: Fair enough, but now a question for you. : Such details are for Kyros' warriors only.People who can't defend their crappy rebellion don't get answers! : So you will not say? I expected as much. Can it be worse than endless storms or fire pouring from the earth? Not that you'd answer that either.: I've another question for you, if you will entertain it. Verse is a spy. She's smart enough to recognize that we are not getting any more useful intelligence out of this. : Ask your question, Eb. : I'm done answering questions. What secret, that Nerat will steal it for you if you promise to help him on the DL?  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
With the context provided by our last playthrough we have a clearer picture of the rebellion and it's not pretty. People got mad at me when I questioned whether the rebels were any better than Kyros because Kyros is very bad. Kyros is still very bad, but the rebellion is a literal joke. We'll start with the basics - Nerat orchestrated and abetted the entire rebellion. We know this because Catorius told us, but Nerat is also the guy responsible for losing Kyros' iron - on every non-anarchist route, the player can corner Harichand Bronze and threaten him until he tells us he delivered the iron to the rebels on Kyros' behalf. Why? Well, Nerat wanted to be King of the Tiers over Ashe, and what better way to do that then by creating and arming a rebellion infiltrated at the highest levels? All he had to do was sit back and watch as Ashe's own racism and stupidity led to poo poo like losing legions of elite troops doing frontal assaults over a river. This wasn't even a particularly novel precedent to arrive at, as Nerat also got to watch Ashe's adventures in losing elite troops in a storm that Nerat's team explicitly asked us to warn everyone about. When Ashe and the Disfavored had finally shown themselves for the inept fuckups they were, Nerat could dismantle the rebellion at his leisure as he controlled the supplies and had the entire thing infiltrated from the beginning. Then he could go to Tunon and lay down a convincing case for being Archon of the Tiers. Last playthrough posted:An easily defeatable rebellion requires contemptible rebels. We're certainly not going to use a popular peasant uprising, that was the justification for inviting Kyros in the first place, and that would probably fold to Disfavored heavy infantry. Hence Eb and the Apex nobility. It's kind of important to note that while Arri draws legitimacy from her service to Queen Vendrien Alata, the Queen is nowhere to be found and is certainly not leading this rebellion! If Essa is anything to go by, the Queen was actually fairly popular and beloved by her subjects, to the point where she could get them to agree to surrender to Kyros. That's a real threat. Arri, Eb, and their followers are just dumb reactionary idiots no one likes. If Kyros is the equivalent of Lenin and Stalin promising rights for the workers and peasants while killing tons of workers and peasants, the Vendrien Guard are the equivalent of the rich aristocrats fighting to bring the tsar back so they can go back to looting and enslaving the workers and peasants. The Romanovs were so incompetent that Grand Duchess Marie repeatedly emphasizes in her memoirs that the Tsars - at the time of deposal - had no real education in governing. The rebels glorify the old bad status quo, with constant pointless warfare, casual sexism, and mass enslavement and extermination of Beastmen. This brings us back to our old friend Umberto Eco and his essay on Ur-Fascism, which I'm sure you're all sick of by now. Sorry! It's a game about fascism, and we can unfortunately apply several facets of Eco's Ur-Fascism to our unfortunate rebel friends. Cult of Death: Eb straight up tells us the goal of the rebellion is not to win, but to die glorious and heroic deaths so that some "others" may be inspired to rise up against Kyros. As Eco puts it, the ur-fascist "hero" is so eager for death he sends tons of other people to die before he does, and that's what Arri is doing here. Eb is at least on the front lines doing water magic, but Arri never gets off her rear end until the Fatebinder gives her no choice, and her speech rallying the troops at the last minute is very reminiscent of the cult of death. A Life Lived For Struggle: "You make conflict sound like a bad thing". Stalwart literally defines itself by its constant struggle with its enemies, the relics of Azure is not something like a scepter but a shield, Vendrien Alata is revered by Essa not because of her wise laws or infrastructure building but for her skill as a war leader. The little we see of the pre-Kyros Tiers leadership suggests they value constant warfare against their neighbors. Cult of Tradition: Eb and Arri will not shut up about the mythology of Free Tiersmen, even when it turns out to be a complete fabrication. As Eb says later, "the only thing free about the Free Cities was the name." Thus like many fascists waving a vaguely incoherent syncretic tradition around, Eb and Arri wave around a vaguely free Tiers that kind of draws on some ancient history that makes no sense when critically analyzed. Contempt for the Weak: Did you notice that Eb straight up tells her escort they're most useful to her as human shields? It's not just Eb either, Arri has a similar response when the Sages choose to leave the final stand against the Fatebinder: Arri's Great Leadership Skills posted:
It dovetails nicely into contempt for intellectuals, seeing as Arri and Eb have absolutely no objections to making GBS threads all over the Sages at every opportunity. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. The rebels don't have all the tenets of Ur-Fascism. They don't traffic in Newspeak, for one thing, and their elitism is strictly aristocratic rather than than Hitler's weird ethno-populism or Stalin's cult of personality. There's still enough there to be sufficiently worrying and show how much the status quo failed the people of the Tiers. TL;DR: The rebels are just a bunch of reactionaries trying to revert to the garbage Tiers status quo and trying to use Nerat while Nerat uses them to humiliate the Disfavored.  We've seen this before, we thank Tunon for the advice.  The kid encounter pops up again and instead of telling stories we go fishing. Fatebinder's gotta eat!  Boris levels up in the Chorus camp and I go to grab him some Defense talents. We want the taunt aura to actually tank, along with the damage boosts against stunned and proned opponents.  Death Knell gives us the conscription quest, yadda yadda yadda.  The Fifth Eye is a lot happier to see us as we never had to sacrifice either army to the Sages.  : I trust you are getting your warriors ready for battle. : [Remain silent.] : I don't belong to Archon Nerat. What's my help worth? It's nice to see Fifth Eye enjoys his job. : My price is knowledge - the Archon of Secrets knows a great deal of magic, does he not.So, something I neglected from Cleopatra's playthrough. This is the ONLY way to get the Blood Magic sigil, and it's a 30% damage boost in the accent slot. The caster takes damage, but you literally don't care because you have poo poo like regeneration auras and life stealing attack spells. It rules!  Translation: you won't get it until Act II. Fifth Eye is on the level and not just screwing us over. The scene continues as we've seen it from this point, we interrogate Variah, have her kill the other prisoner, recruit Lantry, do a blood arena challenge for Lantry, he teaches us the life sigil, yadda yadda yadda. I considered showing off his death but I don't have the heart to do it.  Salveros is still mad that he has to work with the Chorus and they hate him. He is ironically stationed here because he tried suggesting being less racist, making him among the smarter Disfavored. Incidentally, if anyone cares, I got Lantry to tell us about the Life Archon. Lantry on teaching the Life Sigil posted:
Just another reminder that Kyros ruins everything. We'll close out this grab bag update by showing off what happens if you don't happen to have the Subterfuge to convince Bitter Quill to stop loving around.  Trap River goes as expected.  : Your plan has been a rousing success. Most of our troops, dead. A bridge, destroyed. And the Vendrien Guard push us back to where we started. Ladies and gentleman, the finest the North has to offer. And for your next act? : This is a disaster. : Fatebinder? Where were you earlier? You could have stopped this colon mite from deviating from the plan.Oh no, you fuckers don't pin this on Boris. You don't need his help to gently caress up. : My gang serves at my pleasure, not yours... and your plan failed to please. Barik is the guy who was actually trained for this trying to figure out what these dumbasses did. : We tried to rush the western bridge. Blow for blow, we had them running but, his gaze drops, a long sigh escapes, but halfway across...: Half way across, the whole drat river just, the Blood Chanter gesticulates, flailing for words, lurched up! The cursed Matani swallowed the bridge and most everyone on it! Only real soldiers we have left are the Scarlet Furies that I, quite wisely, directed into a flanking position.Was Bitter Quip in on the plan to sabotage the Matani assault? We may never know.  : A member of the School of Tides is alive and working with the Vendrien Guard. I assure you, she's the culprit.: That would explain it. I saw a woman dressed in blue at on [sic] the other side of the river - didn't seem like she fit with the others.: Had we focused our strength into one perfect lunge, we could have crossed the bridge before the enemy knew what was killing them. But it's not too late, we can use the Scarlet Furies to - : If Antio's plan isn't a good one, what would you suggest instead?: There is a time for initiative and a time for patience. We should try a different part in the river, or come back later. The enemy is too wary of us now.Bitter Quip is smart. Antio is dumb.  : Well we can sit and wait for Kyros' Edict to kill us, or we can do something. : [Athletics 32] [Strike him.] What was that? The wonderful thing about being a Fatebinder is that legally Quip cannot hit us back or he gets put to death. This doesn't make the Fatebinder any more in the right - Bitter Quip is absolutely correct that the first idiot plan got all their troops killed. It's not clear whether or not he was actively sabotaging, and frankly, I don't care. : [Strike him again.]  : [Strike him again.] : [Strike him again.] So, yes, Barik is freaked the hell out because you are a cruel scumbag.  The lesson here is that it didn't work and we gained nothing. Sure, Verse liked it, but we humiliated ourselves in front of our subordinates, scared Barik, and basically vindicated Bitter Quip. It's reflective of the game's stance on cruelty as a whole. : How about you just tell me what you'd like in exchange for your cooperation.Cleopatra could use her wits. Boris is significantly worse at lying.  Quip basically played us like a fiddle.  : This bickering is ridiculous. There must be another answer. : Perhaps if you had help covering the cost of enticing replacement warriors to your gang...Look, you're gonna make us do most of the work anyway.  : What if I offered you and your Furies first pick of the spoils? Yeah, neither of you idiots deserve a bribe. : This is a waste of my time.We eventually end up back in the loop where Bitter Quip wants Antio to grovel.  : You heard him. Beg, grovel, do whatever it takes to salvage this mission. Well, Barik, I don't see you stepping up to bribe him. Maybe if the Disfavored hadn't all fallen for an obvious false retreat they wouldn't be in this situation, now, would they?   Then they give us the spiel about how we need to get to the bridge. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
So, yes, that's the no subterfuge way to solve the conflict. Either Antio grovels and you eat Disfavored wrath, or you have to bribe Bitter Quip with your own money to do his drat job. Quip fucks up later when you're called in to adjudicate with Salveros, and while the Tunon-friendly way is to exonerate Quip per Magicians Folly, you can rule that said use of magic was aiding the enemy, which kills Bitter Quip and doesn't incur Tunon Wrath. Next time: Matani Sybil dies. Sorry goons! TheGreatEvilKing fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 07:21
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: Was less-than-seven years ago. Reef-Talon awoke to nest beset with humans. Human tribe answering to Prima Straydus overwhelmed Reef-Talon and kin. Likely survived only because humans desired captive muscle, not roasted beast.
: Get back here! Arri shouts at the fleeing Sage, but to no avail. What was I thinking, bringing cowardly scribes to a sword fight. Eb was right about the lot of you!
: Didn't realize you gave a care about your history. Well, the Orphan Midwife was born in 160, bowed to Kyros in 201. They say where she walked, plants would sprout, the sick would grow vigorous... she'd also send most folks into fits of rage and animals into heat - she sounds like quite a riot.
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Chats about the culture of the Tiers are always feeling a little empty to me because we never get a real look at what it's actually like to live under Kyros. Sure, Kyros' Peace is a lie, but the empire itself has lasted for quite a while at this point. The Tiers are a very small part of the continent of Terratus; while we say we have the endgame of spreading the Peace, we can't even name an Imperial region to contrast with. Even the former nation of the Disfavored doesn't get a name. Everyone seems very unwilling to talk about where they come from other than Sirin, who is too young to remember much.
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Apr 18, 2021 13:53
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So in this playthrough are you going to keep Eb or smash her head in with a rock?
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Apr 18, 2021 13:58
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Deadmeat5150 posted:So in this playthrough are you going to keep Eb or smash her head in with a rock? Kicking Eb off the tower means no Gravelight sigil. I can show it off and then reload if people want to see it.
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Apr 18, 2021 16:35
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Kicking Eb off the tower means no Gravelight sigil. I can show it off and then reload if people want to see it. Who needs Gravelight? Go Zero Magic for Maximum Difficulty mode! (Don't do this. I did it, it sucks, don't do it)
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Apr 18, 2021 17:10
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:
typo
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Apr 18, 2021 19:30
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Xarn posted:typo fixed, ty!
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Apr 18, 2021 20:39
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Thanks for the update. I never realized how a bit of analysis really deflates all of Eb's rhetoric about the 'noble cause' driving the Vendrien Guard.
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Apr 19, 2021 10:23
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sunken fleet posted:Thanks for the update. I never realized how a bit of analysis really deflates all of Eb's rhetoric about the 'noble cause' driving the Vendrien Guard. But it's right there, it's a noble cause of nobles, no contradictions.
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Apr 19, 2021 11:17
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Governor Boris And The Distressing Fact Playing Melee In This Game loving Sucks Last time on Tyranny, Antio and Bitter Quip made us do all the work again.  Blah blah blah river blah blah blah penis.  The sages have some pretty vicious spells we're too broke to grab right now.  We intimidate one of the men into fleeing because I sure as hell don't want more Tyranny combat.  People aren't happy to see us.  I don't think I grabbed this last time I was here. It's in the upper right hand corner of the map.  Sybil gives a speech about how the guard won't abandon the village, blah blah blah.  This never gets old.  Hoo boy.  Remember when I said we were going to be more cruel this run? : This village is an accessory to sedition. Surrender or perish. The village is harboring stolen iron and you literally lured us to it. : They knew the cost of defying Kyros.  So...when we were a mage with a ton of AoE disabling blast spells, this fight was a breeze. Now? Now it sucks!  That Sage has a decent lineup of control spells. Now, we don't really have a lot of spell slots - I've got three attack spells on Lantry, so we're just getting the melee guys confused and frightened. Boris is running a new talent I forgot to screencap - it's a battle stance that AoE taunts enemies every six seconds, making him the only tank in the game worth a drat. Of course, this means Sybil and the entire front line is wailing on Boris, so, uh....  Yea. We can't really do much about this!  I do discover that enemies have a fixed threat range and they will auto-retreat to their spawn point, so I try to run Barik off in the hopes of ending combat and getting everyone back up like you can sometimes do in Pillars of Eternity. It doesn't work.  After five tries I finally figure out some way to win this fight. I think it involved Boris in heavy armor and microing Lantry to actually cast his drat spells. The AI in this game is really bad and for some reason the devs think Lantry should be autoattacking with his quills. No. : Well done, Fatebinder! If this one survives its wounds, we even have a fresh present of the Archon of Secrets - he did request a personal audience with any leader we can take alive. God drat Antio is a worthless dumbass. : I say give her to the Scarlet Chorus, see if she survives the trip back to camp. : So if she lives, this fanatic will be trusted with a weapon. Lovely.: And what of this village? The locals could have trapped the houses, so too risky to commandeer the site. He shrugs, his tone becoming matter of fact. We should burn the town. It'll cut off support, send a message, and the smoke signal will give the others a visible rallying point when crossing the Matani. As the villagers are all still here, the choice to burn the down isn't just burning buildings but burning people alive in their homes. We took the slavery choice last time. : Burn the town with everyone in it. Let us send a message the rebels won't soon forget.That message is "Kyros is loving insane and you need to resist at all costs."  Funny how Verse, despite supposedly being a psychopath, is subtly encouraging mercy here. Sure, it's forced conscription, but it's a drat sight better than being burned alive in your home. : Very well. Whoever remains in Echocall will be a slave or conscript to the Scarlet Chorus.  As much as I hate to say it, Barik's not entirely wrong. The standard practice for violating a surrender oath and launching an insurrection against the Roman Empire (for example) was exactly the kind of poo poo Verse just talked us out of. Of course, this will do nothing to actually quell the rebellion and will just piss everyone off by turning a crappy reactionary faction into pop heroes. : That would only prove our point - these are competent fighters who are better put to work in Kyros' army. No boss who falls to a simple villager deserves to live anyway.: Kyros' Edict looms overhead - have we nothing better to do with our time? The Disfavored warrior shakes his head in a huff, and turns to his squad. Hear that? The Chorus just made this town their headache. Now start rounding up your gear, there's lots to do before we rest.: A sensible decision, dear Fatebinder. If we hold to the Disfavored' pogrom of razed soil, what will remain for us to rule?: Bitter Quip claps his hands, raising his voice to address his gangs. Seize this place! Search the homes, take all that you can carry! Give each survivor a chance at the Voices' mercy, but to the ungrateful, be brutal! TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 We find the missing iron and threaten to tell the Disfavored.  Blah blah blah ambush blah blah blah recruitment.  Return the iron because I need the cash for sigils.  I buy and have Lantry learn the Sigil of Guarded Form, as Boris is too dumb.  Dodge the Vendrien Guard/Brotherhood combined encounter, because holy poo poo are we going to be slaughtered as a melee PC.  We punch Death Knell for not warning us of an ambush. Boris is a mean man. It's kind of weird that we get wrath for punching Death Knell, but favor for shoving the gate guard around. My guess is that we're supposed to fight her instead of hiding behind Fatebinder status? Who knows.   It's time to chat with Sirin.  Um, kid, what the gently caress?   : Do I look like I can hurt him? She returns her gaze to you and leans forward as if to share a secret.: These... good people aren't for my protection. Apparently I'm dangerous. But I guess you already knew that. Can't have me collecting followers again like I did in Lethian's Crossing, can we?: If some people started worshiping me. Is that really such a bad thing? Is Kyros really so insecure to worry about a little competition?Yes, yes, and yes. : Look at me! Do you think I seem dangerous? What harm can a fifteen-year-old girl cause? I'm only a child. The smile falters. She looks down, her hand moving to the headdress, her thumb tracing the edge of it along her jawline. She looks back up, the hard look back in her eyes. She regards you for a moment before continuing.: So, Tunon's Fatebinder in the middle of a battlefield... Kyros must be desperate. You were sent to shame Ashe and Nerat into action, weren't you?: Ashe certainly needs someone to dig a heel into his back, if only to distract him from his problem. She purses her lips in thought. : Oh, I'm sorry - is it my turn to talk now? I thought this was 'listen to Sirin blather' time.Wow, we sucker punched a woman and now we're being a dick to an abused teenager. Good job, Boris. Yes, I clicked the buttons. Shhh.  I'm not sure how actually manipulative Sirin is being and how much of this really is a desperate cry for help. I know one of the devs said Sirin was his favorite character to write because of how screwed up she is, but Sirin is literally a friendless child kept enslaved and under constant armed guard trying to find someone who won't treat her like poo poo. : Things never change, do they? The faces are different but the words keep repeated. 'The girl has such power!' 'Use her voice - it can bring down realms!' 'Such might in one so young!': No one gives a claw about me! I don't know wh you would be any different. Everyone wants the same thing - my help. My power. My voice! Not animated: a wave of power from Sirin knocking people down. : [Leave.] I must go. Well now, that's just rude. : From the corner of your eye, you see Verse cup her hands to her ears, turning her head away from Sirin.: Sirin's mouth opens in a perfect O-shape, and the sound that pours out is captivating, entrancing. It dampens the ambient bustle of the camp, until it seems that nothing exists but her voice. : [Lore 40] What are you trying to do to me?  : You will answer some questions for me first. Welp.  : Oh her? We go way back. At least Lantry thinks we're cool. What if we pester Sirin again?  Sirin accurately identifies the dumbest member of the party.  : [Athletics 34] Restrain Barik.  : Thank you. I don't know what came over me.: Archon, with all due respect, we will keep our distance from each other. I would not engage with you again - accompanied or no. Jesus Sirin. If we talk to her again, she just tells us "You are not welcome here". TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 A lot of people in the thread pointed out you can actually help out poor Vittles here. : You there - what's your name, lad? : New to the Chorus? Captain is a southern term. Kyros' armies have Commanders. And I'm neither. : And just why is this a mistake? Did someone take the vow for you? : Never served in the watch... how old are you? : That makes you too young to be in the Chorus. Summon your gang leader, and I'll solve this.  Oooh, sassing the Fatebinder...not a good move.  : This boy - he of a proper fighting age? : You are aware that under Nerat's own law - Honor and Guard the Young - this boy is exempt from the battlefield. This really clashes with Sirin being legally a child, but you know what, I am totally ok with keeping fifteen year olds as children in a fantasy videogame. : [Lore 34] Southern tradition requires all non-seafaring men to take arms for their village watch upon 15th year of their name. This boy had not yet served his watch, which means he's not of age. Boris is about to ruin this man's whole career. : [Lore 34] Aren't you forgetting something? Children are a valued and protected commodity in the Chorus. As he's a member of your gang, you'll need to properly serve and protect him until he comes of age.  I see this young man is a Fatebinder in the making. : Hit him all you want, kid. But be careful - in the Chorus, the minute you murder someone, you come of age.  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 There's a Lore trainer in the Chorus camp, so we raise Lore on Boris and Lantry before wandering off into the wilderness.  I love that even Tunon knows these two Archons are complete fuckups.  Fake Limp here gives us the assignment to go capture Florian while he fucks around.  We just murder his rear end. It procs a trap where some Vendrien Guard guys hit us from behind.  It doesn't save them. In my defense, for some reason I thought you had to have saved the brother for Florian to surrender.   That's great, I don't take orders from Fifth Eye. : I tried my best, but he didn't seem to like the Chorus much. : Then you should have argued harder! Or knocked him over the head and carried him against his will? Fatebinder, is this really your first abduction?: Not sure I like the tone of your voice.: Not sure I like the tone of your face! TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 We go round up the Earthshakers and accuse them of treason, then go back to the Disfavored war camp. I turn in that quest offscreen, and show off one adjudication I didn't show off last playthrough.   : Something wrong? One of the Disfavored soldiers turns to you, looking weary from debate. This one here stole from the legion and thinks he can get away with it. She points to the Chorus warrior clutching the helmet. If he takes one more step, we'll be forced to violate Kyros' Peace.Wrong thing to say!  : Fatebinder! Can you hear me out? I'm being accosted by these Disfavored thugs!: Upon noticing Verse, he blinks and regards her with a respectful nod. : Someone mentioned Kyros' Peace being violated. This involves me whether you like it or not. : We can make this a trial of who stands here the longest! And when our bladders loosen, at least I won't be the one wearing an iron diaper. But I'd much rather let the Fatebinder settle it... seeing as there's no other way out of this impasse. : May I see that helmet?  : [Inspect the helmet.]: Battered and corroded, the helmet has chipping along the left parietal and rust blossoming all about. It's likely been separated from anyone who knows the first thing about maintaining iron equipment for many weeks. : [Conquest] The owner's insignia is lost, but this was forged by Agni, Master of Fitting. It belonged to an Evocatus - someone of many years in the legion.  : [Leave] My work here is done. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
NOW we can deal with the Archons.   : Oh you're so young, we can forgive you for being stupid. Without your Archon of Stone to bring down those walls, you're out of your element. Only the Chorus has the numbers required to storm the walls from all sides - WE will lead the vanguard of this battle! : The best the Chorus could accomplish would be leaving a ramp-shaped pile of corpses propped against the walls for my warriors to use. Their fortifications are not a concern. Even under-staffed, my Earthshakers could breach the masonry in short order.  : I trust them more than I'd trust your circus of rapists, sellswords, and turncoat Tiersmen!: Archon Ashe turns his head and, upon seeing you in the tent, relaxes his posture. : Our operations in Echocall Crossing and Tripnettle Wilderness were successful, why aren't you two marching toward Ascension Hall? I dunno dude, maybe because you're a god drat moron who marched his troops into first a fuckoff Edict we personally warned everyone to stay away from, and then into an obvious trap river? : Now that we're all assembled, I want reports. The Scarlet Chorus was going to resolve the oathbreaker presence in the outer valley. What became of that?: Yes... what DID become of that? We should know already, yet we do not. If we are not mistaken, the Fatebinder played a pivotal role in this operation. Fifth Eye, shed light on this baffling question. Look, man, you were just gonna stick a spike up his rear end and turn him into an ineffectual boss fight summon.  : They are oathbreakers, they've abused our mercy once before and we're idiots to think that'll change. Look, Nerat, it's not our fault you didn't commit sufficient forces to capture Florian. : Securing the Matani was a gruesome affair. An agent of the School of Tides still lives, and the river was turned against us. Despite our losses, the day ended in success at Echocall Crossing, though victory came at great cost.Specifically, the Fatebinder did most of the work with an assist from a few Scarlet Furies.  We're just not making friends today. : Their leader, Captain Matani Sybil, was bested in combat but taken captive by the Scarlet Chorus. Despite the Disfavored taking the lead on this operation, the Fatebinder felt it necessary to apply Chorus doctrine to the captives.If by "taking the lead" you mean "drowning because the local commander was too inept to recognize a feigned retreat", I suppose that is an accurate statement.   Nerat's writing the reddit post as we speak.  : Odd, you think the Tiersmen so pathetic and harmless, yet you seem pathologically afraid of what they might teach the Chorus.Remember when Eb said that the Disfavored had a prisoner swapping agreement?  That's not a denial!    Nerat's as quick as Boris.  Of course, he's been playing Ashe like a fiddle this entire time.  : A truce with the oathbreakers? Is this true? : Enough bickering. We are running out of time to take Ascension Hall. Ashe is desperately trying to change the subject right now, because Nerat is going to pounce all over him. : You will do as WE order, you are not to take orders from this addled ponce.The only thing that could maybe salvage this situation right now is Tunon showing up in person, and he's not going to work against Kyros' magic to get into the valley. : Then the impasse is clear. We both wish for the honor of leading this final assault on the Vendrien Guard. Since Tunon is not here to select the rightful bearer of this honor, we must turn to the Archon's proxy. Decisions lie before us! Are we going with Ashe and the Disfavored, or Nerat and the Chorus? Choose wisely! Whichever one we select is going to be our new BFF/inadvertent power base for the rest of the game, no betrayals or take backs!
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Apr 21, 2021 04:37
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: Could you take mercy on the villagers? They're not warriors?
Ah, you're playing melee... have fun, fucker!
: Hey, important looking dude, can you help me out? I'm not supposed to be here! I'm just a kid, dude!
: Hey you dumb loving Fatebinder I was getting high and gambling what's this bullshit?
: Yiss!
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Nerat I only ever did a disfavored run and am curious what the Chorus path looks like. Also the general thrust of the disfavored run is pretty evident after doing the anarchist play-through, and so it won't be particularly surprising or interesting. You participate in objectionable activities while the veneer of loyalty and honor slowly slides off Ashe and the Disfavored. The disfavored are modern day fascists, allying with them means becoming an increasingly horrible monster. It's an open question whether the player recognizes the sunk cost fallacy causing them to commit ever worst war crimes or if they end up unironically posting on reddit about how Ashe did nothing wrong.
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Apr 21, 2021 05:24
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Let's work with Nerat.
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Apr 21, 2021 05:28
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I feel like siding with Nerat is going to give us more content honestly. These conversations are why I really like Chapter 1, there really is a lot of variance and it flows so well. I like how if you antagonize Ashe enough, he almost blurts out sedition of all things.
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Apr 21, 2021 06:13
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Nerat.
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Apr 21, 2021 06:52
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Nerat for sure. Having never seen the Disfavored path, I am not sure if one involves more war crimes than the other, but the Chorus path definitely has more spice than just doing genocides and maybe some off-screen slavery.
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Apr 21, 2021 10:29
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I smell a Nerat
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Apr 21, 2021 10:42
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Let's feed Nerat until his head pops like a tick.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:15
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Nerat, if only because he seems much more capable of witty comebacks
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Apr 21, 2021 17:25
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Nerat also sucks but is at least fun.
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Apr 21, 2021 19:40
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Nerat.
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Apr 21, 2021 19:52
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Joining the chorus of Nerat.
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Apr 21, 2021 20:49
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I'll be the one contrary voice voting for Ashe.
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Apr 21, 2021 22:01
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Yeah, that checks out.
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Apr 21, 2021 22:07
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Just since someone else said it first I vote for Ashe just because I did Chorus in my own playthrough.
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Apr 22, 2021 03:30
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Your experience with 'just control Lantry' largely sums up my experience playing a melee Fatebinder. It's the most bang for your buck for you to use your attention on the mages. Using non-mages is more about having one less person to pay attention to in the fight more than anything else. The AI screws up combat characters to a lesser degree than mages, so they still get most of their effectiveness. Which is admittedly less than a properly controlled mage, but yeah. It doesn't help that Act 1 has you at your weakest in general relative to the enemies.
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Apr 22, 2021 05:08
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Since I also joined Nerat during my playthrough, I too have to vote for Ashe this time.
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Apr 22, 2021 07:06
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