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And the big clubs won't go for any standalone top tier that isn't closed off because they wouldn't be able to dominate it (so the brand is devalued) and they might get relegated (the entire club is devalued). Like, Barca and Real aren't going to trade a pretty much nailed on 2 horse race every year for a 12+ horse race where they also might get dumped out of the race entirely if they properly gently caress up.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:24
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The FT had a bunch of the financial rules for ESL members which were about capping all football spending at way below current levels. That would only really be possible if they were making the league fully sealed off and leaving domestic football in the medium term.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:25
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The Premier League had no incentive to see its own competition devalued by no longer being able to offer major European qualification places, and with 6 clubs having nothing but a title to compete for. Didn't really matter if they wanted to stay in or not, both options were bad for the PL, FA, UEFA etc. just to different degrees.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:26
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andrea agnelli is hilarious because it's been pretty clear for 20 odd years that he's considered too incompetent by the agnelli / elkann clan to do anything that matters in the Exor portfolio and this is absolutely proving itself true in front of our very eyes in public
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Apr 21, 2021 12:26
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peanut- posted:The FT had a bunch of the financial rules for ESL members which were about capping all football spending at way below current levels. That would only really be possible if they were making the league fully sealed off and leaving domestic football in the medium term. I don't think they had a plan for the medium term after the novelty wore off and people got bored of seeing Real Madrid play Liverpool with nothing on the line. It's only a viable product in the short term, which is fine for increasing the trading value of their companies and getting investor dicks hard. That's capitalism's focus.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:29
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sassassin posted:I don't think they had a plan for the medium term after the novelty wore off and people got bored of seeing Real Madrid play Liverpool with nothing on the line. It's only a viable product in the short term, which is fine for increasing the trading value of their companies and getting investor dicks hard. That's capitalism's focus. Disagree, I think the Americans in particular were seeing this as step one to creating the football NBA/NFL that's a much more efficient profit generating machine.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:31
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The effort from the breakway clubs was incredibly poor. There was literally a tweet from each of the teams and a vague closed league idea and that was it. Apart from that complete car crash of an interview with Perez there was not a peep from any official channel. Like Spurs fire Mourinho and then send out their 29 year old interim coach to essentially be the spokesperson for this who is of course at best lukewarm. No website explaining the structure, no press releases from the clubs saying why it would be a good idea, nothing about supporting the teams left behind, no explanations, start date or anything tangible at all. Every soundbite was left to Perez and of course they were all utterly self destructive and stupid. This idea clearly needed to come out fully formed with an opening fixture list and dates (even if partial), sponsors, paid for press junkets and full throated support from the clubs. Not a few tweets, confused bemused responses from the managers and players involved and silence apart from the insane ramblings of Perez. I hope the avarice and incompetence combined has poisoned this idea so thoroughly that it's put on the back burner for a very long time. Of course the avarice and incompetence displayed continuously by FIFA and UEFA will continue on sadly but it's the least worst of the two options.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:33
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make the champions league a knock out tournament with only the champions from each of UEFA's member leagues, bring back the cup winners cup and abolish all other european club competitions imo
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Apr 21, 2021 12:34
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Jose posted:make the champions league a knock out tournament with only the champions from each of UEFA's member leagues, bring back the cup winners cup and abolish all other european club competitions imo I'm fine with the Europa cup, but make it a knockout tournament too And gently caress off with the dropping down from the CL to the Europa
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Apr 21, 2021 12:37
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CyberPingu posted:And gently caress off with the dropping down from the CL to the Europa
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Apr 21, 2021 12:42
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keep punching joe posted:Like a European Superleage is probably a viable proposition in all honesty (well except for Brexit maybe loving up things logistically). It cant however be a dumb yank franchise system with the same plastic teams and no relegation. I'd be all for something to slot in at the top of a pyramid, that your club could feisably... just maybe scrape into once in a blue moon. Ditch the Champions league while we're at it and bring back the European Cup/Cupwinners Cups. So you're saying abolish The Champions League and replace it with...The Champions League?
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Apr 21, 2021 12:44
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The UEFA Cup, it does nothing If you're going to keep it, it would make more sense if you excluded the top ten nations or somesuch, so it's a trophy that actually means something to the teams that win it and it gives an opportunity to put money into the SPL and other leagues where the literal garbagemen literally work as garbagemen (you'd probably need some kind of revenue split where 40% or so goes to other members of that league, else you get the Rosenborg problem, but that's probably too intricate for bad internet trophy ideas)
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Apr 21, 2021 12:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFO3vzH3yug
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Apr 21, 2021 12:48
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John Barnes seems like a cool guy imo
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Apr 21, 2021 12:49
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we did the math and what the kids like is actually more racism
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Apr 21, 2021 12:52
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peanut- posted:Disagree, I think the Americans in particular were seeing this as step one to creating the football NBA/NFL that's a much more efficient profit generating machine. This is absolutely what they want. Walled off league where they’re never in danger of getting relegated and can pump everyone involved for every last cent.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:56
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Yet again BBC comments providing some great material:quote:Gumbo74: I understand the sentiment regarding sanctions but it would make these owners more determined for a closed shop and self governance.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:56
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He's right In discord chat on this topic it was mentioned how funny it is that Sky and the Prem etc are losing their poo poo considering this started with them and similar moves in 92.
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Apr 21, 2021 13:09
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CyberPingu posted:Yet again BBC comments providing some great material: lmao "big clubs have lost power, so we'd better prostrate ourselves before them and beg them not to try anything like this again"
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Apr 21, 2021 13:15
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jesus WEP posted:lmao "big clubs have lost power, so we'd better prostrate ourselves before them and beg them not to try anything like this again" quote:
They keep coming
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Apr 21, 2021 13:23
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FullLeatherJacket posted:The UEFA Cup, it does nothing It would probably work best as a competition for teams that don't make it through the prelims of the CL, and with the winners automatically qualifying for the next CL. It will still be biased towards the richest remaining leagues, but at least it gives a chance to break through and be exposed to a global audience. It's not really possible to solve a lot of the problems in football without more equitable revenue sharing, and the problem is it isn't going to happen because too many of the teams taking all the money have voting rights that prevent any structural changes. Maybe a good punishment for the breakaway clubs would be losing those voting rights for x years, and in the meantime vote in a new system that prevents them reverting everything when they're allowed back.
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Apr 21, 2021 13:25
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CyberPingu posted:The super league wasn't replacing domestic games nah you're right, they were totally going to do midweek matches that give them waaayyy more money than the domestic ones or even the previous CL ones to show to both north american and asian fans at the same time just me turning on my SL streaming service to watch SL matches at 4PM while i'm working with my buddy in the phillipines waking up at 4AM to watch the same match all while they are incentivized to not play their strongest side for domestic matches throughout the entirety of the season why would they want these matches with more money during the weekend instead of united playing fulham at a good time for the "legacy fans" they don't care about? that's just greedy
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Apr 21, 2021 13:25
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Karl Sharks posted:nah you're right, they were totally going to do midweek matches that give them waaayyy more money than the domestic ones or even the previous CL ones to show to both north american and asian fans at the same time I meant from the start...
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Apr 21, 2021 13:29
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If anything, I'd still like to see the clearest ringleaders of the esl made an example of. Lengthy bans from european competition for Liverpool/United/Real/Barca/Juve (and whoever else is deemed to be pushing for it the most), and domestic punishments to boot, all of which can only be prevented by ownership deciding to sell up immediately. Like others are saying, the same group of shitbag clubs are just gonna try this again in a couple years time and if you want the problem to actually go away you need to loving address it rather than just tolerate it. Institutions and owners need to be made examples of. A dream scenario would be a thorough dismantling and reorganizing of FIFA and UEFA, along with a forced shift towards a 50+1& fan ownership model on a worldwide level. The super league clubs basically hid behind the justification of "actually we're SAVING football from these tyrannical governing bodies", which is obviously bullshit yet the position exists and can be exploited because of how loving abhorrent UEFA and FIFA currently are. We'll never see it but the only way to even start addressing the problem of how money flows through football is to mandate a full 50+1% rule for every club across the world which wishes to take part in UEFA/FIFA competitions, and much more thorough regulating and blacklisting of parasitic owners who want to use clubs as cash flows/vanity projects. No more loving oligarchs or hedge fund managers or nation states. No more FSG or City Group. Get them all loving out or the problem will never go away. edit: it would be cool if people realised that actually billionaires have been doing this to literally every public service and good we have had access to for the last 40+ years. Football is loving infinitesimal compared to having homes/healthcare/transport/utilities taken from and sold back to us at obscene mark-ups, lol. I hope a lot more socialists are created as a result of EFL sleaze! an_mutt fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 13:38
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Vando posted:It would probably work best as a competition for teams that don't make it through the prelims of the CL, and with the winners automatically qualifying for the next CL. It will still be biased towards the richest remaining leagues, but at least it gives a chance to break through and be exposed to a global audience. Absolutely, although I will also continue to bang on with my thing that there's no outcome here where all clubs become inherently equal in a vacuum. There's no reason to have only just discovered that some clubs are bigger than others, that was the case in the 70s and 80s. Liverpool in their dominant period were very well funded. Brian Clough's Derby and Forest teams were very well funded, he absolutely didn't win the league by telling poo poo cloggers to pull up their socks and tuck their shirts in, and if your dad tells you that he did, you can put him in a home. The goal should be to create something that's long-term sustainable and competitive, and that avoids wealth being sucked upwards/hyperinflation at the bottom, not "jumpers for goalposts" poo poo from people who have some childhood Brexit fantasy about how in the olden days you'd win the FA Cup from the Third Division and then decimal currency and tikka masala came along and ruined it all. That's not something that actually ever existed in anything that could reasonably be called the modern game.
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Apr 21, 2021 13:45
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also I'm pretty sure that "jumpers for goalposts" is now a reference to a show that went off the air before marcus rashford was born, so the whole thing of how football used to be good when i were a lad and now it's poo poo isn't even new or special otoh football used to be good when i were a lad; it's poo poo now
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Apr 21, 2021 13:53
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FullLeatherJacket posted:also I'm pretty sure that "jumpers for goalposts" is now a reference to a show that went off the air before marcus rashford was born, so the whole thing of how football used to be good when i were a lad and now it's poo poo isn't even new or special
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Apr 21, 2021 13:55
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Absolutely, although I will also continue to bang on with my thing that there's no outcome here where all clubs become inherently equal in a vacuum. There's no reason to have only just discovered that some clubs are bigger than others, that was the case in the 70s and 80s. Liverpool in their dominant period were very well funded. Brian Clough's Derby and Forest teams were very well funded, he absolutely didn't win the league by telling poo poo cloggers to pull up their socks and tuck their shirts in, and if your dad tells you that he did, you can put him in a home. The solution is spending caps, and the problem with that solution is the people with lots of money (and these people can and do change over time, but the philosophy remains the same) really don't want that because it means they can't throw money at problems if they're underperforming. If you try to patch the problem with revenue sharing, you have to either make the revenue sharing absolutely cast-iron equal or teams will just throw money at getting even a slightly bigger payout, and the problem continues.
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Apr 21, 2021 13:55
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Make them a mini 6 league where they have to play each other every week for a season. The top 2 of the mini league go into the Championship, the middle 2 join League One and the 2 bottom clubs get to join League Two. That would show them how poo poo the ESL would have been whilst also reminding them of why the league system is in place as it is. It would also help attendances for everyone playing them in Leagues One & Two.
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Apr 21, 2021 13:59
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FullLeatherJacket posted:also I'm pretty sure that "jumpers for goalposts" is now a reference to a show that went off the air before marcus rashford was born, so the whole thing of how football used to be good when i were a lad and now it's poo poo isn't even new or special Streets and parks around me that always had kids playing using jumpers for goalposts when I was young have been empty for years now. It's all those Nintendos and Fortnites.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:01
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an_mutt posted:edit: it would be cool if people realised that actually billionaires have been doing this to literally every public service and good we have had access to for the last 40+ years. Football is loving infinitesimal compared to having homes/healthcare/transport/utilities taken from and sold back to us at obscene mark-ups, lol. I hope a lot more socialists are created as a result of EFL sleaze! Yeah this would be nice, but UK-wise, Boris Johnson and his verifiably corrupt lads are coming out of this smelling of roses.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:07
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an_mutt posted:If anything, I'd still like to see the clearest ringleaders of the esl made an example of. Lengthy bans from european competition for Liverpool/United/Real/Barca/Juve (and whoever else is deemed to be pushing for it the most Every one of these clubs is complicit; it's all or nothing. Don't let the ones that weren't publicly the loudest get away with it.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:19
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You know what's good though; Juve's shares in the stock market have dropped 12.7 percent this morning. I imagine any other publicly traded club involved in this had a similar drop in value.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:21
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Flayer posted:The effort from the breakway clubs was incredibly poor. There was literally a tweet from each of the teams and a vague closed league idea and that was it. Apart from that complete car crash of an interview with Perez there was not a peep from any official channel. Like Spurs fire Mourinho and then send out their 29 year old interim coach to essentially be the spokesperson for this who is of course at best lukewarm. No website explaining the structure, no press releases from the clubs saying why it would be a good idea, nothing about supporting the teams left behind, no explanations, start date or anything tangible at all. Every soundbite was left to Perez and of course they were all utterly self destructive and stupid. My personal conspiracy is that at the point we learned about it, it was about 75% formed. I think whatever agreement they had was a letter of intent and they were about to go to UEFA and push their chips in and say, "Give us more money or more stability, or come summer, we're going to have a new league with new dates." They would have had their 15 or 20 teams by the summer. Instead, the New York Times broke the story before they had their ducks in a row and there was a disorganized scramble to give themselves legitimacy when it resembled a bargaining unit more than well-thought out league. Again, my personal conspiracy, but I always thought they were doing it for bargaining and didn't really want to break away if they could help it.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:39
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Gigi Galli posted:You know what's good though; Juve's shares in the stock market have dropped 12.7 percent this morning. I imagine any other publicly traded club involved in this had a similar drop in value. Pretty much the same for United. But the stocks are just down to whatever they were four days ago, the market seems to have no belief in real repercussions for the clubs, and I'm inclined to agree. Any fines or suspensions will be fought tooth and nail and super watered down. My only hope is that this will create some momentum for spending regulation.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:42
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fancy stats posted:we did the math and what the kids like is actually more racism Agnelli doing a walk through of his pptx slides before calling up the other owners https://mobile.twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732?lang=en
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Apr 21, 2021 14:57
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trem_two posted:Agnelli doing a walk through of his pptx slides before calling up the other owners Lmao
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Apr 21, 2021 15:14
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Pook Good Mook posted:My personal conspiracy is that at the point we learned about it, it was about 75% formed. I think whatever agreement they had was a letter of intent and they were about to go to UEFA and push their chips in and say, "Give us more money or more stability, or come summer, we're going to have a new league with new dates." They would have had their 15 or 20 teams by the summer. I was also thinking about this and my thought is that the publicly traded companies probably realized that they had to announce it once they put pen to paper. Either way, the way this was rolled out was incredibly incompetent and hilarious.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:14
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https://twitter.com/MilanEye/status/1384625465424416771?s=20 UEFA has correctly identified the enemy and the weak spots I guess?
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Apr 21, 2021 15:42
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Syncopated posted:https://twitter.com/MilanEye/status/1384625465424416771?s=20 Barcelona and Real Madrid are carrying more than 2 billion dollars in debt between them so yep, definitely the weak spot.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:59
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