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Eimi posted:They could go a more cosmic horror route, where it's something from beyond and it's unintentional and uncaring for what it does. I don't think that would be the greatest follow up after Zenos is basically being written as a force of nature, but it's an option. I mean, that's a close second behind 'nothing' to me. If we need to have an alien force as our next villain, let's make it Lovecraftian. It's new territory for the game.
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Apr 22, 2021 05:15
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Eimi posted:They could go a more cosmic horror route, where it's something from beyond and it's unintentional and uncaring for what it does. I don't think that would be the greatest follow up after Zenos is basically being written as a force of nature, but it's an option. I still feel a bit like they blew their wad on Ultima a little early, but they could always surprise us, my own ravings about the sudden increase in Lucavi aside.
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Apr 22, 2021 05:34
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The sound was just Godbert Manderville flexing really hard and enjoying a nice shoulder massage from Azem. Apparently the rest of Amaurot couldn't handle it and it's up to the WoL to teach the rest of the Ascians that it's just fine to perform a deep tissue massage on a goldsmith that would otherwise murder you/have their wife murder you.
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Apr 22, 2021 05:39
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Eimi posted:They could go a more cosmic horror route, where it's something from beyond and it's unintentional and uncaring for what it does. I don't think that would be the greatest follow up after Zenos is basically being written as a force of nature, but it's an option. Cleretic posted:I mean, that's a close second behind 'nothing' to me. If we need to have an alien force as our next villain, let's make it Lovecraftian. It's new territory for the game.
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Apr 22, 2021 05:47
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Eimi posted:They could go a more cosmic horror route, where it's something from beyond and it's unintentional and uncaring for what it does. I don't think that would be the greatest follow up after Zenos is basically being written as a force of nature, but it's an option. Zenos is not a force of nature, he is just a dick!
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Apr 22, 2021 06:58
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Zenos is kind of a weird reflection of, not the played character, but the player. And I'm curious how he's going to go out, I'm really looking forward to how things finish up.
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Apr 22, 2021 07:05
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Gearhead posted:Zenos is kind of a weird reflection of, not the played character, but the player. And I'm curious how he's going to go out, I'm really looking forward to how things finish up. I'm always annoyed by this comparison, because I'm not a Zenos. I'm not here for blind fight idiocy, and I don't know many people who are. I'm here for seeing the story and the weirdest lore it can offer up. If anything I'm a Fandaniel. I'm here to see the wildest possible fireworks. And to piss off the Zenoses, apparently.
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Apr 22, 2021 07:11
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“[X] is actually a critique of [players/viewers]” has never been a take I find very interesting, in part because it seems less about analyzing a narrative and more about having an axe to grind with a particular subset of fan thats Liking Things Wrong
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Apr 22, 2021 07:16
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:“[X] is actually a critique of [players/viewers]” has never been a take I find very interesting, in part because it seems less about analyzing a narrative and more about having an axe to grind with a particular subset of fan thats Liking Things Wrong
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Apr 22, 2021 07:18
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A large part of being able to accept Zenos's friendship is acknowledging that you're both here for the big fights, it's not the full extent of his character but I think him being in some ways a dark reflection of the PC was deliberate
No Dignity fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Apr 22, 2021 |
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Apr 22, 2021 07:46
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IIRC there are points where they frame it so he's looking directly into the camera while talking about it too, I think I would be waaaaaaaaay more surprised if they tried to argue he wasn't.
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Apr 22, 2021 07:52
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If they're gonna go for that, then Zenos needs to die because he interrupted someone before they mention information crucial to his victory, and so he gets blindsided by techniques and characters that he says he was never told about.
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Apr 22, 2021 08:11
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Valens already did that though.
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Apr 22, 2021 08:25
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My ideal end for Zenos is he's set everything up for the grand, world-shattering duel with his enemy, his friend that he was willing to burn civilisation down to the bedrock for, and the WoL basically goes "I'm trying to cancel the apocalypse, I do not have time for your bullshit" , stomps him flat in like two seconds and leaves him bleeding out and clawing at the ground begging the WoL to come back and fight while they're going off to fight the real threat. And then, I mean, Fancy Dan will probably show up, scrape him up off the ground and pour him into Zodiark because there's no way they're going to skip that fight after foreshadowing it so hard...but give me that "Look, just gently caress off, would you?" moment first, please. 
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Apr 22, 2021 08:33
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Zenos will get another unavoidable victory over the WoL in the 90 trial, and then because he feels the apocalypse is interrupting his fun, you finish the game in a roleplaying duty as Zenos and single-handedly end Hydaelyn and Zodiark yourself, becoming the will of the planet in the process. The WoL gets to choose from dialogue options "Thank you for doing what I couldn't." and "Zenos was the coolest guy."
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Apr 22, 2021 08:38
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Hogama posted:Zenos will get another unavoidable victory over the WoL in the 90 trial, and then because he feels the apocalypse is interrupting his fun, you finish the game in a roleplaying duty as Zenos and single-handedly end Hydaelyn and Zodiark yourself, becoming the will of the planet in the process. gently caress, you win, this is clearly the most likely prediction.
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Apr 22, 2021 09:01
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Hogama posted:Zenos will get another unavoidable victory over the WoL in the 90 trial, and then because he feels the apocalypse is interrupting his fun, you finish the game in a roleplaying duty as Zenos and single-handedly end Hydaelyn and Zodiark yourself, becoming the will of the planet in the process. We can only pray
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Apr 22, 2021 09:32
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Hogama posted:Zenos will get another unavoidable victory over the WoL in the 90 trial, and then because he feels the apocalypse is interrupting his fun, you finish the game in a roleplaying duty as Zenos and single-handedly end Hydaelyn and Zodiark yourself, becoming the will of the planet in the process.
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Apr 22, 2021 09:40
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Onmi posted:Unfortunately, any KH raid would involve getting Disney involved, and Disney is loving miserable to work with. And yes, they would have to be involved, all the KH OC's are owned by Disney and they are balls deep in taking control of basically anything involved with it. It would also have to be temporary content. That's how previous KH crossovers in other works have had to be. Intellectually, I know this. Emotionally, I refuse to acknowledge reality.
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Apr 22, 2021 10:09
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Nessus posted:We've had one friendly alien race and one persuadable. We're due We got a hostile alien race. We threw their invasion back through their interdimensional portal this patch at the end of their raid story arc.
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Apr 22, 2021 12:09
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multijoe posted:Zenos is not a force of nature, he is just a dick! Zenos is the physical embodiment of the fascist "Power and control above all human dignity and suffering" Garlean mindset, being the direct result of Varis desperately trying to outshine Emet, his grandpappy, who made the whole deal as a way to gently caress up the world. He's a ghost who just comes back to his body when he dies and has powers beyond the imagination of normal men. That dude's a force of nature now.
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Apr 22, 2021 13:34
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Zenos will quit the game, screaming "You don't pay my sub!" when we don't follow his fight mechanics.
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Apr 22, 2021 13:44
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Zenos isn't a 1 for 1 for the player, but there's definitely a certain 'I only want big fights and the perfect weapon and nothing else is relevant to me, not even the plot.' aspect to him.
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Apr 22, 2021 16:34
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Gearhead posted:The New Year's poem warned of dangers both in the skies and under the ground and how, for there to be a future at all, both would have to be confronted. obviously the moon threat is zodiark and the earth threat is hydaelin i know peeps in here like going "there's no evidence that hydaelin is fishy if you ignore all the evidence", but even noted "smart one in the room" scion Y'shtola says "let's not blindly assume things here"  
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Apr 22, 2021 16:38
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No one thinks there's not something off about crystalmom, just that the game isn't going to go "actually she's evil and we need to kill her"
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Apr 22, 2021 16:41
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I can't imagine having to kill God in a Final Fantasy game. What a wild concept. e: I don't think Hydy is necessarily 'evil' - it's more likely she has no concept of morality and is simply an entity that's unconsciously doing incalculable damage to the planet and its people. She's a thing that Should Not Be.
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Apr 22, 2021 16:57
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Ibram Gaunt posted:No one thinks there's not something off about crystalmom, just that the game isn't going to go "actually she's evil and we need to kill her" Yeah, exactly. Hydaelyn was always going to be a bit 'off', because frankly that's just how JRPGs work. The thing that was absolute nonsense with no evidence to it is 'Hydaelyn is evil' (and its cousin, 'Hydaelyn tempered us', because the game's never wavered from her being a benevolent figure who can be trusted and taken at her word. The game had a hojillion chances to hint that she wasn't on the up and up, including exactly that scene in 5.5, and has never taken a single one of those chances. Eventually you have to accept there's no prize behind that door.
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Apr 22, 2021 17:08
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There was that time she murdered every single being on the planet bar three very angry guys, but yeah aside from that she seems pretty clean
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Apr 22, 2021 17:11
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That's a pretty reductive way to describe it but some people really hate the concept of unambiguous (or nearly unambiguous) good so...
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Apr 22, 2021 17:16
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Kyrosiris posted:That's a pretty reductive way to describe it but people really hate the concept of unambiguous (or nearly unambiguous) good so... Every single being on the planet bar Lahabrea, Emet-Selch and Elidibus ceased to exist by function of her attack against Zodiark, she murdered them
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Apr 22, 2021 17:18
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multijoe posted:Every single being on the planet bar Lahabrea, Emet-Selch and Elidibus ceased to exist by function of her attack against Zodiark, she murdered them *looks around the obviously empty Source and First* wow whoa
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Apr 22, 2021 17:21
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multijoe posted:Every single being on the planet bar Lahabrea, Emet-Selch and Elidibus ceased to exist by function of her attack against Zodiark, she murdered them Counterpoint: All of them continued to exist and thrive as living organisms, the only people who disagreed are all evil bastards who we killed (or were in the same room when a god-king killed them, which counts in many people's eyes). She shook things up a bit, but... honestly, given even Zodiark is still alive I'd be hesitant to even say her kill count is at one.
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Apr 22, 2021 17:22
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She's also a tool. If you want to go that route that she murdered everyone (I don't really agree with that framing) you're better off pinning the blame on Venat and co. She was doing exactly what she was created for, she couldn't just say "no" to fighting Zodiark or whatever.
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Apr 22, 2021 17:26
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Kyrosiris posted:*looks around the obviously empty Source and First* wow whoa She created new people, but the old ceased to exist for that to happen. Come on this is a basic part of Shadowbringers plot, which also went out of its way to beat you over the head with 'neither light nor dark are good nor evil, but only what people make of it'. Zodiark and Hydaelin were both created to do very bad things in a very bad situation, both have tremendous amounts of blood on their hands.
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Apr 22, 2021 17:27
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Ibram Gaunt posted:She's also a tool. If you want to go that route that she murdered everyone (I don't really agree with that framing) you're better off pinning the blame on Venat and co. No, you should pin the blame on the Convocation going "okay, now that the universe is no longer trying to actively kill us, let's sacrifice all this new not-amaurotine life to bring back the people we just threw into the Zodiark blender".
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Apr 22, 2021 17:28
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Ibram Gaunt posted:No one thinks there's not something off about crystalmom, just that the game isn't going to go "actually she's evil and we need to kill her" yeah i'm not saying the twist ending will be that hydaelin engages in recreational puppy-kicking, but also "eventually antagonistic" is not the same as "cartoonishly evil". even something like fandaniel recreating the conditions that let to the planet going buckwild and triggering hydaelin's sundering protocols can put her at odds with the protagonists
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Apr 22, 2021 17:29
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Cleretic posted:Counterpoint: All of them continued to exist and thrive as living organisms, the only people who disagreed are all evil bastards who we killed (or were in the same room when a god-king killed them, which counts in many people's eyes). If you follow this logic through then it is practically impossible to commit murder in the world of FF14 because the matter of their souls will return to the lifestream and reincarnate forming a new 'them', but the entity that recognised itself as Azem and every other person on that planet ceased to exist when Hydaelin did her thing. That is death.
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Apr 22, 2021 17:31
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For all we know, the sundering turned 1 world and X ancients into 14 worlds and 14X beings in an instant, no deaths. There could have been 14 weak Azems running around, hanging out with 14 weak Hythlodaeuses. We don't know that it was some life scouring event, only populated millennia later as new life developed from the aetherial residue of the former.
Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 22, 2021 |
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Apr 22, 2021 17:34
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multijoe posted:If you follow this logic through then it is practically impossible to commit murder in the world of FF14 because the matter of their souls will return to the lifestream and reincarnate forming a new 'them', but the entity that recognised itself as Azem and every other person on that planet ceased to exist when Hydaelin did her thing. That is death. First of all you are using that last argument against the wrong person, because my response to 'Azem is dead' is 'good riddance'. Second of all, real hard to mourn the event that leads to us being alive. Third of all, realize that your rhetorical approach here is taken wholly from Literally The Bad Guys Who You're Meant To Disagree With, so maybe consider the motivations behind it. Fourth of all, can't even say that was a bad move by Hydaelyn even if it WAS intentional (which it was not). Remember that she was summoned to protect the 'new life' that was sprouting and the Convocation wanted to sacrifice. Her smackdown of Zodiark just made MORE of that new life, how is that bad?
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Apr 22, 2021 17:38
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Is there a canonical age of the WoL? I'd imagine not but if Azem keeps getting reincarnated to be a goody goody adventurer/cop/soldier/chef/carpenter, it's likely that only the past up to 100 years have been during the WoL's iteration of Azem.
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Apr 22, 2021 17:44
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