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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I like having a wagon as a daily and winter car but realistically the amount of time I use the capability that it offers over a sedan is extremely limited. Worth thinking about. That is something to think hard about I suppose, I also really do personally love the look of wagons and hatchbacks and part of it to me is like making the statement of a wagon person. Also yelling at clouds about manufacturers not making what I individually personally special snowflake want, see manual trans. I also very much love an e39 and if they didn't look more like double the initial outlay I would possibly go that route, I think it's the most handsome car BMW ever made and have always loved them. I have also thought about manual e46 m3's which are at least a bit closer in price and could probably be swung, but then I am swinging pretty far away from practicality of a daily and that falls more into the sports car category. Not sure if it also impacts things but I am prepared to be without a car for a while searching and have a (reliable) motorcycle and probably plan on keeping that after I do find a new car. This can serve me for quite a lot of things and I spent about 3-4 years with only a motorcycle for transportation and made it work. Also I live in coastal California so winter practically speaking doesn't exist for me.
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Apr 21, 2021 16:18
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you absolutely can make a statement that you are a very special wagon person, just recognize that you will be spending a lot of money to do so, so you should carefully consider whether that is worth it to you I bought the last practical somewhat dull manual wagon daily in America so I get it at some level, though I would never combine those attributes with the unreliability and cost of the E39. That sounds like a recipe for complete dissatisfaction to me. The car won't be special enough when it's working right, and it'll break too frequently to actually be practical. edit: it won't break like leave you stranded probably, but there will literally always be something wrong with it edit 2: and when there isn't something wrong with it, you'll be waiting with bated breath to find out what will break next KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 16:23
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:there will literally always be something wrong with it This is so true it hurts.
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Apr 21, 2021 16:27
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I agonized forever over what car I could buy to be the do-it-all car that checked all the boxes. Manual, wagon, RWD/AWD, fun to drive, the usual list that folks in this thread would have. For a long time I was watching E91 listings like a hawk, just hoping that I'd find the perfect car that wasn't some hyperinflated EAG unicorn or that wasn't 3000 miles away. At this point even "meh" specimens are rare as hell, and as has been said the E90 generation wasn't exactly a high point for BMW quality. Then I started thinking "well maybe if I just give up the manual trans requirement..." which opened things up to F31s and some Audis and such. But if I compromised on that, it wasn't really the perfect car anymore. In the end after much waffling I decided that two cars was the right decision. One car that is the capable, comfortable, reliable, hauls-4-adults-and-cargo no muss no fuss car. And one car that can be the fun car. So after 10 years of only-car duty my E46 retired to second car status. It gave me a whole new appreciation for the car since I'm no longer annoyed when I can't fit things or people in it, or when it's uncomfortable over lovely roads. Now I get to appreciate it for what it is, a manual transmission, RWD, straight six sport coupe. I've fallen in love with it again. And it also opens up the possibility of replacing it with something even more impractical and fun eventually  I'm not saying that you should or should not find that unicorn E91, but it's going to be a really difficult quest and may not be the nirvana that you are hoping it will be. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 18:32
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:but there will literally always be something wrong with it And we just changed the thread title too. Heh, my wallpaper just changed to my old Barbera Red E90, the pic I took as I traded it in (without working a/c) for my 335. I do kind of miss that car, but the beige interior was getting to be in rough shape. I'd like an N52 Z4 for a toy, but two doors, and no backseats is rough with a 3yo and one coming, even as a second car. Even if I drove it to "the office", what happens if I need to get to daycare? It's +20 minutes or more to swing by the house to change cars. 
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Apr 21, 2021 20:20
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I understand the allure of something like a straight sixed manual wagon driving only the rear wheels. It should be theoretically excellent. The real issue will probably come into play that once you actually find one it will be priced so high above market you will have to sincerely ask yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze. Old appliance grade BMWs without the letter M preceding the number just are not special. You will far more love the idea than the actual thing. When you are there looking at the wagon you managed to find that fits your criteria you will take a long hard look at that stack of dollars and consider "I could buy an M3 with that" and I am here to tell you friend - the M3 is better.KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:there will literally always be something wrong with it MODS - bookmark this for the next thread title. 
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Apr 21, 2021 21:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you absolutely can make a statement that you are a very special wagon person, just recognize that you will be spending a lot of money to do so, so you should carefully consider whether that is worth it to you
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Apr 21, 2021 21:55
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ok as a ~current e9x~ owner, I agree with the following: - there will literally always be something wrong with it - it will spend a shitton of time in the shop - it will cost big $$$ on an ongoing basis However, I disagree on two points: - it's a "boring appliance." Yes, these are slow cars compared to an E39 M5, but holy hell does the E39 M5 have a much larger monetary and headache tax attached to it compared to an N52 powered e9x. 50% seems like a really high estimate to me. I think more like 25-30%. And it is by no means a boring car. It's still an I6 with a manual transmission and hydraulic steering. This was basically as good as it got for a performance oriented sedan/wagon/vert at this price level. You guys calling it a boring car have ridiculous standards. Have you ever sat in a Lexus? - It's not worth it. Okay, I think a wagon is not worth it. But the vert / sedan / coupe can be had for less than half the price. That will leave you with plenty of money to maintain it. So the question becomes whether or not it's worth putting the time in. I say yes, but I previously owned a 2.7TT C5 A6, so an E92 seems pretty easy by comparison. This all depends on getting the N52 powered car though. I would not bother with an N54. That takes it way over the line into "not worth it" territory. Yes my E92 has poo poo broken on it constantly. Yes it has cost me a ton since I bought it. I also would not trade it for any newer car under about $50k. But I was also able to find a unicorn: a 6-speed M-sport xDrive E92 in Le Mans Blue, and I only paid $8k for it with 89k on the clock. That took me loving forever to find, like nearly a year. So that aspect has to be factored in as well. I probably spent way too much time tracking it down. KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 22:01
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yeah and i definitely wouldn't spend twenty thousand dollars on a 10 year old entry level lexus either, what's your point? very little stuff that I have had to do on the M5 are M5 specific failure points, they're more the reality of owning a 20 year old car with somewhat dubious history and 115k miles. There's a lotta deferred maintenance and steering and suspension bits to catch up on... which will also be the case in short order on a 10 year old E91 with 100k miles. edit: lol Kotex you got "a deal" on a car that's been forever broken. can't wait until the E91 guy buys one so he can be like us and rationalize dumb poo poo like we both just did
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Apr 21, 2021 22:07
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The delta between what I expect to pay for a wagon of my liking and the cost of a 2011 e90 m3 is really not that significant, it certainly is giving me pause, but throwing out the wagon specification really does widen the field significantly and I am not sure how I would really like to go. But yes Somewhat Heroic I am absolutely captivated by that exact allure of an NA straight six manual rwd wagon, especially in that I think the sizing of that generation is just about perfect. I do know there won't be an e91 available anytime soon so I do have time to think and consider it, by contrast e90 m3s seem to be available in abundance so if I do think more on it and change my mind there will be options.
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Apr 21, 2021 22:08
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I do think this is a pretty strong case of don't meet your on-paper heroes but if that's what you really want go for it! Just don't gently caress around with modding it that much and you'll be able to recoup your money. edit: also if for whatever reason you plan on financing this car you absolutely cannot afford it
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Apr 21, 2021 22:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:very little stuff that I have had to do on the M5 are M5 specific failure points, they're more the reality of owning a 20 year old car with somewhat dubious history and 115k miles. There's a lotta deferred maintenance and steering and suspension bits to catch up on... which will also be the case in short order on a 10 year old E91 with 100k miles. Well for what it's worth suspension would be like the first thing I would replace in all likelihood. Semi related question, is there a place to see all possible configuration options for a car, I guess mainly I would like to know what colors e91s were actaully offered/sold with e: KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I do think this is a pretty strong case of don't meet your on-paper heroes but if that's what you really want go for it! Just don't gently caress around with modding it that much and you'll be able to recoup your money. lol see above, though my intent would be a forever car so I would be pretty sure to do suspension but save OEM, I would also heavily consider bumping the components and tune to the higher output N52 spec which I suppose is questionable in terms of holding value, but I don't see that as anything I would do immediately, more so in maybe a year of ownership and figuring if it is meeting my hero and worth it or not, then investing more into the platform to make it better for me. TheBacon fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 22:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:yeah and i definitely wouldn't spend twenty thousand dollars on a 10 year old entry level lexus either, what's your point? KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:edit: lol Kotex you got "a deal" on a car that's been forever broken. can't wait until the E91 guy buys one so he can be like us and rationalize dumb poo poo like we both just did
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Apr 21, 2021 22:53
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Sounds like you should have bought an M3 so you could reduce your yearly maintenance by $2000. And also have a much better car
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Apr 21, 2021 22:59
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:my point is that the entry price is doing a lot of the work here: it's one thing to spend under $10k on an E9x on day 0, it's quite another to spend like $20k. ya for sure it just seems kind of facile to say "well if the car cost half as much it would be pretty good" - if a ford escape cost half what it does it would be pretty good too! and technically it would be the same amount of good but a better value  KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:it's fine! it's fine!! except for the bearings, and the control arms, and a tension strut, and flat tires and cracked rims, and it needs spark plugs and ignition coils now, and im not owned! i'm not owned! i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform in to a S62 rod bearing kit
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Apr 21, 2021 23:05
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Ether Frenzy posted:Sounds like you should have bought an M3 so you could reduce your yearly maintenance by $2000 
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Apr 21, 2021 23:13
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Spending money on a glorious V8 E90/E92 M3 seems like a wise decision. Spending nearly equivalent money on an appliance E9x wagon only to deal with tired suspension, interior, cooling system, etc seems bad. Buy an E90 M3.
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Apr 21, 2021 23:18
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So part of the hopes got up for this slightly rougher cosmetically (which doesn't bother me as much as can be fixed eventually) pre LCI going for 'only' $12k and absolutely could buy that cash to your earlier point Kyoon. Which other than being older than I would like even the color is nice. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-bmw-328-39/Residency Evil posted:Spending money on a glorious V8 E90/E92 M3 seems like a wise decision. Spending nearly equivalent money on an appliance E9x wagon only to deal with tired suspension, interior, cooling system, etc seems bad. Maybe this is what will happen, time will tell. I mean really if I could swing it transplanting the s65 into the e91 would be the dream but lmao even though it has been done that's not in the price range at the moment heh Maybe I'll just end up buying a cheap na/nb miata instead as was the purposed subtitle a little while ago.
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Apr 21, 2021 23:22
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someone go rescue this Imola Red M5, it's cheaper than buying a house (or Cayman GT4!) https://www.bmwusa.com/certified-preowned-search/#/detail/WBSJF0C5XKB283632 
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Apr 21, 2021 23:23
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i already kind of know what the answer is going to be, but is it expected for a dealer to go from super responsive and helpful until you actually get the car, and then switch to basically treating you like an ex girlfriend? i've had cars from lots of other brands before, but BMW seems to be a problem in this department... or maybe I just have bad luck with the people I deal with. *TLDR first: got the car, didn't come with the credit card key, now waiting to order one Long version: Got the car in Nov as a demo model, with 10k km on the clock. I'm a techy guy / love all the toys, so one of the first things I did was look for / try to activate the key card that comes with the car so I can give it to the GF or have it as a spare when I don't want to carry keys around. The card was nowhere to be found, it was of course listed in the manual as being included. I texted the dealer whom had been super helpful before I got the car of course, and he responded quickly "Did you check here, here, oh maybe it got lost etc let me take a look. LMK if you don't find it I'll get right on it" Waited awhile and never got anything back from him, so I went to see him in person when I got my tire change done "Hey remember that card I was looking for, still can't find it.... what do you want to do?" His reply is basically "The car didn't come with it, so we can order it from parts but it will cost you $xxx" Like, ok I get it they have to make money, but this is something the car was SUPPOSED to have, and I paid for it when I bought the car. If I opened the trunk and the battery was missing would they expect me to pay for a new one off the lot too? Now it's been another 3 weeks of him 'talking to the parts guys' to see if he can order it, which I know fully well they can since it's a very common thing to order. I gave up and just talked to the next closest dealer, and they will order it for $65 plus shipping etc, took them all of 5 minutes to find that out. So what's this guys deal, is he too busy making deals to care about the clients AFTER he gets their money? I guess this was a rant more than a question, but meh here we are
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Apr 21, 2021 23:27
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how much money do you think the sales guy makes, personally, when you buy a $65 part from the parts counter
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Apr 22, 2021 00:00
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Residency Evil posted:Spending money on a glorious V8 E90/E92 M3 seems like a wise decision. Spending nearly equivalent money on an appliance E9x wagon only to deal with tired suspension, interior, cooling system, etc seems bad.
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Apr 22, 2021 00:01
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:there is no universe in which buying and maintaining an e91 wagon is nearly equivalent in cost as an E90 M3 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-bmw-328-56/ 
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Apr 22, 2021 01:19
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They've gone for even more! https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-bmw-328-48/ Or the combo one even which is...well it shows it can be done. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2009-bmw-328-5/
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Apr 22, 2021 01:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:how much money do you think the sales guy makes, personally, when you buy a $65 part from the parts counter right, but generally speaking i thought salespeople were trying to build relationships so that i come back in 2-3 years and buy more, and tell other people to buy etc etc if he's like 'gently caress this guy trying to buy a part, what does he think I am scoff' then I will for sure 100% never buy a car from him again and tell everyone I know he's a massive dick what is the alternative here? from the flip side of that , it's a $65 part, why couldn't he just give it to me instead of dicking around about it and making me go through all these hoops. It's not a set of ceramic brakes my G apologies if im losing it, it's just kind of infuriating 
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Apr 22, 2021 01:38
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ok the dealer is never gonna give you poo poo like that for free, because why would the parts department give you something for free when the sales guy hosed up? the dealership is like four distinct silos: new vehicle, used vehicle, service, and parts. they all hate each other and they all depend on each other in a macro sense. they're all compensated on department based gross margin and so therefore if my department does a solid for you for the good of the customer it comes out of my pocket. gently caress you, says the parts manager, don't lose the keycard next time. that sales guy doesn't give one gently caress about your post sale experience because he's already sized you up and figures you won't come in again in three years. yeah you might but you're a goon posting on the forums buying a demo so I doubt you change cars like socks. maybe i'm wrong but people don't buy cars every 2-3 years unless they're leasing (and if you're not leasing and you're buying every 2-3 years you're making a bad choice). And anyway, even if you come in in three years, he ain't gonna be there. the odds that that salesman is at that store in three years are maybe 10%. Every second he spends thinking about you or your problem is time spent where he isn't making money or doing a thing where he could be making money in the future. Even if he absolutely blows you away from a customer experience standpoint, you're not gonna tell your friends and family to see Amir at the BMW store. And even if you somehow did, the odds that they actually go see Amir at the BMW store are very, very long, and the odds that they buy a car from him are so long that they're basically zero. note that i'm not saying this is good or whatever, its just how it is. it sucks and is super annoying! but everyone's acting according to his incentives. edit: have you, or anyone else, ever bought more than one car from the same sales guy? I'm genuinely curious now. I think my father in law does but he changes leased BMWs every like 18 months so he's a Special Child in that regard.
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Apr 22, 2021 01:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ok the dealer is never gonna give you poo poo like that for free, because why would the parts department give you something for free when the sales guy hosed up? i mean, yeah you're 99% right on that for sure, it sucks but it's life however, the Mercedes guy I know I personally brought 2 people to him who purchased, and as part of my work purchased 500k in cars 1 year from him he's also been with that location like 15 years, so i guess there is a unicorn for each dealer... who both cares about making you happy, and will still be there down the road to see you come back at the end of this long winded set of posts, all I wanted was the got-dang card that should have come with the car
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Apr 22, 2021 01:56
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With car dealers the trick to coming out as well as you can has 3 simple steps: 1) Always assume they're lying, because they are. That being said; 2) There's a 5 second rule: If you don't catch them cheating you within 5 seconds, the statute of limitations is over so get over it you lost, unless you are ready to 3) Decide how many hours you want to fight with any one individual at the dealership, whether it be in sales or parts, and then his boss and some joker pretending to be involved, and then figure out how much per hour your time is worth because they're getting paid to argue with you
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Apr 22, 2021 02:15
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It’s a used car. Unless you have paperwork explicitly stating the card key was included you have no recourse to receive one. If it happens to be included that is simply a bonus. Same can be said of any documentation when the car was delivered new. Does it have the owners manual? That’s a bonus but not expected or required. It isn’t terribly different from buying used from a private party in that sense.
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Apr 22, 2021 02:20
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I've bought one used E90 from a private dealer, a CPO E90 and CPO F30. None of them came with card keys, are you sure they specifically come with them? My Dad bought an E92 and an F34 new and I really don't think he got them either...
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Apr 22, 2021 02:45
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Blue On Blue posted:i mean, yeah you're 99% right on that for sure, it sucks but it's life CV/B2B purchases work completely differently and in those cases the dealer has a lot more incentive to actually try to make you happy.
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Apr 22, 2021 10:09
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I know the e9x is supposed to have a valet key in the glovebox, but I don't think a card key is a thing.
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Apr 22, 2021 16:03
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Somewhat Heroic posted:It’s a used car. Unless you have paperwork explicitly stating the card key was included you have no recourse to receive one. If it happens to be included that is simply a bonus. Same can be said of any documentation when the car was delivered new. Does it have the owners manual? That’s a bonus but not expected or required. it should show up as a "we owe you" section of the purchase agreement. this section is almost always blank
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Apr 22, 2021 16:22
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Alarbus posted:I've bought one used E90 from a private dealer, a CPO E90 and CPO F30. None of them came with card keys, are you sure they specifically come with them? My Dad bought an E92 and an F34 new and I really don't think he got them either... G20 - a card is shipped with each car, in the little slot inside the manual
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Apr 22, 2021 17:08
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ok the dealer is never gonna give you poo poo like that for free, because why would the parts department give you something for free when the sales guy hosed up? I was shocked KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:And anyway, even if you come in in three years, he ain't gonna be there. the odds that that salesman is at that store in three years are maybe 10%. Every second he spends thinking about you or your problem is time spent where he isn't making money or doing a thing where he could be making money in the future. Even if he absolutely blows you away from a customer experience standpoint, you're not gonna tell your friends and family to see Amir at the BMW store. And even if you somehow did, the odds that they actually go see Amir at the BMW store are very, very long, and the odds that they buy a car from him are so long that they're basically zero. 
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Apr 22, 2021 18:00
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Lamborghini is certainly a different world
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Apr 22, 2021 18:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ok the dealer is never gonna give you poo poo like that for free, because why would the parts department give you something for free when the sales guy hosed up? I’ve gotten what five, six BMWs from the same dealer. First two from the OG dude and the rest from the guy who took over. This is over a 22 year period. No other local dealer here can compare. This is in SoCal, land of BMW dealers on every other street corner. Getting a great deal on a BMW is now easy for me given the relationship I’ve built with that dealer. I keep trying to look closer and nobody will play ball. I was at my local yesterday for the recall software update. Two M3s in the showroom. $15k dealer markup on each, and all the tacky added on accessories, too. gently caress that poo poo.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:59
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Ultimate Mango posted:I’ve gotten what five, six BMWs from the same dealer. First two from the OG dude and the rest from the guy who took over. This is over a 22 year period. No other local dealer here can compare. This is in SoCal, land of BMW dealers on every other street corner. a few of the BMW dealers in my area have switched to 'no negotiation pricing' or some bullshit basically they don't want to spend any time arguing or haggling over price and expect you to simply accept their first offer, as it's "THE BEST WE CAN DO" I even asked the guy when I was there looking like, ok what happens if I start asking for a lower price, do you have some goons in the back escort me out? He didn't really have an answer, simply stating they will not budge on any price... what the gently caress? I can't imagine that goes over very well with the clients aside from the bad with money types that just assume the dealer is being 100% honest and up front, which as Kyoon has just pointed out they are doing everything in their power to be the complete opposite at all times
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Apr 23, 2021 04:11
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Blue On Blue posted:G20 - a card is shipped with each car, in the little slot inside the manual Not all G20s had them come in the manual; some were taped to the NFC pad. If it was a previous demo car I would wager that it was taped there and somebody promptly took it. I got mine and it's a neat idea but I've used it zero times outside the one time I set it up and tested to see if it worked. The digital key on my phone gets used more often.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:35
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kimcicle posted:Not all G20s had them come in the manual; some were taped to the NFC pad. If it was a previous demo car I would wager that it was taped there and somebody promptly took it. So therein lies the frustration with all that I want to have the key card so i can take it biking if I have to drive my bike somewhere first I would love the digital key on my phone, but for some strange reason my car doesn't support it, I think it was a build date a month before they started including the digital key Not sure why they can't update it with firmware but here we are
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Apr 23, 2021 04:58
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