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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0-47to8-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFBAklURCo&t=522s Swimming pool cooling, while on vacation at the Maldives resort from Hitman 2, because of course. (English subtitles available)
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# ? Apr 20, 2021 10:28 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:47 |
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The Grumbles posted:I'm aware of how much stuff cost back in the day - I remember 10 years ago building a really good PC for £400-£500 or so - but I guess I'm learning that my idea of what constitutes a rich kid is vastly different from a lot of people in this thread. It was cheaper back then but still felt like a lot of money back then, I could only really afford it because I was working full time but was still a teenager and hadn't moved out of home yet. Maybe it's a country thing? Sure, but in that case it's not building a PC that's for rich people. It's computers in general. But even back in the 80s you had the IBM PCs that cost as much as a new car, and kit computers that were totally affordable to a pretty normal working class family. Do you think it was something like you knew people who had rich kid computers, so you weren't as satisfied with the cheap thrills end of the market?
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 03:27 |
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I'll be 44 this year. I built my first computer when I was about 20. It was a duron (667 mhz), with everything but the OS. I remember it being around $600-650. I built a first gen Ryzen system about 5 years ago I think it was. Everything but the OS and case. It was $725. That was with a 750 watt ps and a 1060 vid card (before the bitcoin bubble). I remember when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade my Dad bought a computer, as he needed it for work. 486 maybe. I remember it was a grand give or take (he was able to write it off so that helped). If you shopped and didn't have a need/want for the top of the line setup, prices have been really steady outside of when they first started getting into homes, and not counting the shortage globally now of components of course.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 05:41 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvVafMi0l68 Linus is pumping Right To Repair and has put in 20k from the OnlyFans joke to the cause here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:23 |
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https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1385035841005780992 https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1385051271451660290 It doesn't seem like this is really a dispute between HWU and GamersNexus, so much as a dispute with the audience/community. I can understand where GN is coming from: running and testing the CPUs under "Intel guidance" means the CPU will actually meet its TDP rating, and if you let it run without power limits, then it might descend into an arms race with all of the other tinkering you can do with AMD short of actual overclocking. On the other hand, if most motherboards already run without the power limits right out of the box, then the performance measurements captured by GN aren't so "realistic" or "practical". They're consistent against their own testing methodology across all Intel CPUs, but might not match what the user is actually getting unless they go out of their way to re-enable the limits. To GN's credit, if you watch one of their videos reviewing an Intel CPU then you know that the limits exists and might even think of reenabling it, but in this case HWU has a point in that what they're measuring is the out-of-the-box experience. I guess what HWU is trying to clarify here is that if overclocking a K-SKU CPU voids your warranty, lifting the power limit does not, which might be important to people who ever need to RMA their CPU. Having said all that, anyone else have an opinion on this difference between how GN and HWU test Intel CPUs? I guess for me the important part is that the viewer is aware of what's being done, so they can calibrate their expectations and comparisons appropriately.
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:58 |
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I think it's perfectly fine as long as your methodology is consistent and explained publicly (which GN has done, as well as explaining why they do it like that) so people can actually compare benchmarks across your site knowing everything's playing by the same rules. Running it with whatever it's like out of the box also fine since it's what most people are going to actually use. Basically I just prefer everyone's consistent in their own benchmarks rather than constantly hunting down some theoretical "perfect" methodology.
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 07:25 |
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It's great that Linus (who is arguably the most shilly of techtubers) feels the need to declare that he's" not an anticapitalist activist" in his pro Right to Repair video to reassure the chud section of his fanbase.
mA fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Apr 22, 2021 |
# ? Apr 22, 2021 07:47 |
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to me it seemed like the script was trying to catch every counter-argument against right to repair, not that he was appeasing chudspeople
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 13:41 |
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forest spirit posted:to me it seemed like the script was trying to catch every counter-argument against right to repair, not that he was appeasing chudspeople It's nice seeing passionate Linus come out, although the ads take away from the legitimateness of the issue IMO.
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 18:06 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:if most motherboards already run without the power limits right out of the box, then the performance measurements captured by GN aren't so "realistic" or "practical". They're consistent against their own testing methodology across all Intel CPUs, but might not match what the user is actually getting unless they go out of their way to re-enable the limits. To GN's credit, if you watch one of their videos reviewing an Intel CPU then you know that the limits exists and might even think of reenabling it, but in this case HWU has a point in that what they're measuring is the out-of-the-box experience. I think there's a place for both of those methodologies in testing. Be kind of boring if every reviewer did things the same way.
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 18:34 |
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Different mainboards use different default power limit settings, the only way to have a reasonable comparison between CPUs is to use Intel's (or AMD's) recommendations. Otherwise you're benchmarking some manufacturer's Bios defaults.
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 18:43 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Having said all that, anyone else have an opinion on this difference between how GN and HWU test Intel CPUs? I guess for me the important part is that the viewer is aware of what's being done, so they can calibrate their expectations and comparisons appropriately. IMO the reasons not to test with whatever settings the motherboard comes with is: 1. Ok, which motherboard do you use as your "testing standard"? Because now mobo settings and power delivery have potential impact on performance. Is it the gold-plated $500 mobo? Or is it the average best-seller mobo that is what the most people are using? Because if the justification for leaving things at OOB mobo settings is "that's the actual user experience", you probably should use a cheaper mobo. 2. It encourages an arms race between motherboard makers. This was a real problem back ~15 years ago when we had a FSB, mobo makers started adding a mhz to the default OOB FSB speed. Then 2 mhz, then 3. And then if you had an unusual or sensitive PCI card in your system, you'd get unstable results. 3. Eventually AMD will join in and let mobo makers ship with PBO options turned on or some poo poo. Which, IMHO, sucks. All this poo poo is adding 1-2% to final CPU performance, at the cost of 50+ watts of power consumption which for most people is a complete waste. And when I say "most people" I'm talking about enthusiast gamers. Maybe I'm just over-sensitive to this issue since loving bitcoin came around. tldr if Intel wants to have their CPUs score 2% better, they should be consistent with their specs. Call the high-power mode the official spec for the K series, and put the TDP that reflects that spec on the box.
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 18:46 |
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mA posted:It's great that Linus (who is arguably the most shilly of techtubers) feels the need to declare that he's" not an anticapitalist activist" in his pro Right to Repair video to reassure the chud section of his fanbase. bourgeois liberals and chuds are not the same thing
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# ? Apr 22, 2021 20:46 |
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I would also put it down to Youtubers' fear of ever being labelled "political" by the algorithm, see also times when GN Steve does an aside about never saying whether or not crypto mining is a bad thing.
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# ? Apr 23, 2021 00:42 |
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njsykora posted:I would also put it down to Youtubers' fear of ever being labelled "political" by the algorithm, see also times when GN Steve does an aside about never saying whether or not crypto mining is a bad thing. I think it's more the audience than the algorithm. Many popular YouTubers in the Linux world go hard on right-wing politics, one even posted his video of attending a Trump rally in the middle of the pandemic. I would say most of those people, even ones I drop for their politics, would support right to repair as a liberty that comes with putting up the cash for purchase. But there's people looking to organize boycotts all over politics, it's just that opensource evangelism is so predominantly white and male that it's no surprise when chuds emerge and there's a strong desire to not lose allies or their knowledge when they do. (It should be noted that actual FOSS projects and organizations are taking a much better ethos on that, creating codes of conduct that is pushing the disgruntled chud factor to the commentator/influencer part of the community, which is part of why this phenomenon occurs.) To be honest, Linus putting "right to repair" in the spectrum of comerce/communism seems like a bit much. And of course, Linus had his "MONEY!!!!1" video the other month so why would anyone rush to call him a pinko. He's probably reading something he wrote off the cuff, but it's more about anarchy versus just about anything else in the consumer protections space.
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# ? Apr 23, 2021 02:11 |
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Who is ReviewTechUSA and does he ever actually review tech or does he just make videos about ~drama~? Never watched the dude but his videos keep showing up in my feed suggestions.
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# ? Apr 27, 2021 17:18 |
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Space Racist posted:Who is ReviewTechUSA and does he ever actually review tech or does he just make videos about ~drama~? He used to be all about reviewing games and talking about how much the gtx 980ti was a better deal than the Titan. But it's evolved to mostly drama talk about the industry or fellow content creators.
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# ? Apr 28, 2021 03:36 |
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Rich the ReviewTech guy had a disagreement with Pat Contri over Diablo Immortal of all things two and a half years ago and still randomly poo poo-talks Pat about it. He's a creep but I guess stirring up drama gets more clicks.
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# ? Apr 29, 2021 05:15 |
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dickbutt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S-usumuaWo
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# ? Apr 29, 2021 08:05 |
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Space Racist posted:Who is ReviewTechUSA and does he ever actually review tech or does he just make videos about ~drama~? Because of this post I learned that EDP445 is a pedophile. EDIT: I'm a closet "Youtubers that make videos about other Youtubers fan"
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# ? Apr 29, 2021 16:26 |
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https://twitter.com/TheGatorGamer/status/1391988443673251840 --edit: Apparently this is related to this warning shot bullshit that happened a while ago, after he taunted and dared some other Youtuber douchenozzle to show up at his house. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 19:55 on May 11, 2021 |
# ? May 11, 2021 19:50 |
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How it started:Klyith posted:IMO the reasons not to test with whatever settings the motherboard comes with is: How it's going: Intel B560 is a Disaster posted:Depending on the B560 motherboard, performance of locked 65 watt parts like the 11400 and 11700 can be negatively impacted by over 30%. That’s right, we’re not talking about parts like the Core i9-11900K, but rather processors you will be using with a budget B560 motherboard. So yes this was not at all an academic exercise, Intel's extremely flexible definitions of "TDP", "base clock", and "specification" mean that there are mobos that technically meet Intel's qualifications to run the processors, but cannot support the performance of higher-end mobos.
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# ? May 14, 2021 00:54 |
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My takeaway from that video is: 1. Hardware Unboxed does not actively remove the power limits from their Intel boards - they use out-of-the-box performance, as opposed to Gamers Nexus which (I'm pretty sure) deliberately goes into the board settings to enforce Intel's guidance, regardless of what the board-settings began as. In which case, GN probably wouldn't have found anything of the ordinary from one board to another, even though their approach (again, as they make it clear) technically "leaves performance on the table" 2. You could always run CPUs in VRMs that can't handle it, as in the case of putting a 12-core Zen 2 CPU on an A320, or a 12-core Ryzen 3 CPU on an A520. In either case, the less-capable VRMs are almost certainly going to cause throttling issues, even if you left things "stock", just because AMD likes to do a floating turbo out of the box. I guess the problem with Intel is that a B560 board already isn't assumed to be bottom-of-the-barrel (because it's an H510 that's the lowest tier) and that the 8-core i7-11700 isn't / shouldn't be comparable to a Ryzen 9 3900X.
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# ? May 14, 2021 08:36 |
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Lmao at GN steve “I don’t cook my own food”
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# ? May 19, 2021 06:03 |
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# ? May 19, 2021 23:13 |
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... we see no value ... you're just paying to get ripped off ... It's... amazing. Worse than I expected.
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# ? May 21, 2021 03:53 |
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I guess I just never realized how scammy and scummy Dell could actually be. I mean, in my defense, I never really took a look at their computers before because I could always build my own.
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# ? May 21, 2021 08:33 |
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https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1396430359760359428 what's this all then? I don't want to watch Linus's podcast
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# ? May 23, 2021 13:02 |
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https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1395660056788615172 Linus says he's right but the ship has sailed and no one is going to change their terminology, and apparently this has caused weird nerds to pile on Dr Cutress about it
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# ? May 23, 2021 13:20 |
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A person who isn't a practicing MD but insists on being called "Doctor" is a pedant? The entire world is shocked.
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# ? May 23, 2021 13:46 |
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K8.0 posted:A person who isn't a practicing MD but insists on being called "Doctor" is a pedant? The entire world is shocked. Ian Cutress has a doctorate in a related field (I forget specifically what), and has been doing good tech journalism at AnandTech for a loooooong time. Dude is legit, he’s earned the title, and he’s trying to get something started to help everyone actually buying technology to get correctly described products. e: some quick googling says it was awarded for computational chemistry from Oxford in 2011. Arivia fucked around with this message at 13:55 on May 23, 2021 |
# ? May 23, 2021 13:53 |
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I listen to the PC Mag podcast and even they use "doctor" when referring to him. I cringe a little every time. The guy is very smart but I can't help but feel this is like an orchestra conductor insisting on being called "maestro" in social situations.
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# ? May 23, 2021 14:32 |
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okay so the dispute is terminology? that when you say RAM is running at "3600", the unit you should be using is "megatransfers per second", and not hertz, because it's actually 1800 megahertz, and then as double-data rate ram, you get one "transfer" on both the rising and falling edge of the wave, so in 1 hertz you get 2 transfers, ergo 1800 MHz = 3600 megatransfers per second am I understanding this correct? buffbus posted:I listen to the PC Mag podcast and even they use "doctor" when referring to him. I cringe a little every time. The guy is very smart but I can't help but feel this is like an orchestra conductor insisting on being called "maestro" in social situations. DOCTOR JILL BIDEN
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# ? May 23, 2021 15:01 |
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Arivia posted:Ian Cutress has a doctorate in a related field (I forget specifically what), and has been doing good tech journalism at AnandTech for a loooooong time. Dude is legit, he’s earned the title, and he’s trying to get something started to help everyone actually buying technology to get correctly described products. And? I know a very experienced surgeon who now teaches at a pretty good school. She doesn't go by doctor because that's not her principal occupation anymore. I know another woman who is a neuroscience lead researcher and a professor at one of the world's most reputable universities. She doesn't go by doctor either. Only total dinks try to be called "doctor" outside of a medical context, because it's loving irrelevant. Also, he's "right" but only in one pedantic sense. One can just as easily be pedantic back and argue that while the channel frequency is half-rate, the listed "MHz" number does in fact describe the number of operating cycles per second. Hertz is a proper SI unit, transfers is not! It's unscientific to use MT/s! Also one could be not a moron and recognize that as soon as we made the jump to DDR, we switched to effective frequency because that's what is useful for comparing SDR to DDR speeds. It's a subject worth educating people on because that underlying frequency is sometimes relevant, but the way he's approaching it is pure pedantry. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 23, 2021 |
# ? May 23, 2021 15:14 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:okay so the dispute is terminology? that when you say RAM is running at "3600", the unit you should be using is "megatransfers per second", and not hertz, because it's actually 1800 megahertz, and then as double-data rate ram, you get one "transfer" on both the rising and falling edge of the wave, so in 1 hertz you get 2 transfers, ergo 1800 MHz = 3600 megatransfers per second think so. honestly it seems like kind of a fair complaint, i've seen several instances of people needing to clarify that their 3600 "mhz" ram will in fact show up in, what CPUZ or ryzen master or whatever people are using, at the non-doubled 1800mhz and that it's not malfunctioning. it's very much an edge case and i generally agree with the perspective that it's a lost battle but i can understand why it might rub some the wrong way, it's confusing.
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# ? May 23, 2021 15:43 |
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i mean my personal crusade against utterly loving stupid and marketing friendly (ie, misleading) technology terminology would probably start with the USB naming standards, how MBps versus Mbps is used to deliberately fool non-technical users which is another thing i've had a friend get confused about, there's no shortage really.
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# ? May 23, 2021 15:46 |
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K8.0 posted:And? I know a very experienced surgeon who now teaches at a pretty good school. She doesn't go by doctor because that's not her principal occupation anymore. I know another woman who is a neuroscience lead researcher and a professor at one of the world's most reputable universities. She doesn't go by doctor either. Only total dinks try to be called "doctor" outside of a medical context, because it's loving irrelevant. Who gives a gently caress, imagine getting this angry about people using the titles they earned.
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# ? May 23, 2021 15:50 |
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I insist that everyone refer to me by my highest level of education, so that everyone I ever meet knows I am a Bachelor.
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# ? May 23, 2021 16:05 |
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People use MHz and megatransfers interchangeably, they are wrong but I agree the train has left the station long ago and you can't fix it. Its like making hard drive manufacturer's use base 2 terabytes instead of base 10.
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# ? May 23, 2021 16:21 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:47 |
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Yeah, like it's "technically" wrong but at a point you're just talking in the terms everyone understands, and you only need to explain to someone once about why their RAM shows up at half speed in CPU-Z. Also the performance monitor in Windows and most Bios' account for that double data rate, so you'll see the actual speed in there anyway. GN's apparently doing a big 'Memory Explained' series soon so I wonder if they'll talk about the Mhz/MT difference there.
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# ? May 23, 2021 16:25 |