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omg chael crash posted:Fallen Order kicked rear end and I won’t have anyone talking bad about my good friend Cal
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Apr 19, 2021 22:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwEMDtwQivE
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Apr 19, 2021 22:32
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Star Wars games with lightsaber combat in a nutshell. It isn't really a lightsaber, its a really glowy baseball bat that occasionally causes designated objects and non-humanoid enemies to fall in half after you bludgeon them with it enough times.
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Apr 19, 2021 22:56
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I still haven't thought of a solution for the laser bat problem that's not a hard-M dismemberment simulator. This one is silly when you think about the lightsaber physics too much, but it's fun enough anyway that it doesn't really bother me.
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Apr 19, 2021 23:01
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They have partially implemented a Sekiro-esque system where you can parry attacks and force the enemy to block until they run out of posture, then go in for a single killing blow. This even works on stormtroopers but they didn't adopt it quite as much as I had hoped for the boss design.
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Apr 19, 2021 23:06
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I can understand the sisters being resistant to lightsabers due to their armor yet Malicos shrugs off lightsaber strikes like nobody's business Buff Grandpa ain't got time to die
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Apr 20, 2021 00:02
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Lightsabers are not particularly special there. Enemy HP is not supposed to be realistic but an abstracted design of what is happening in terms of luck/near misses/whathaveyou in 90% of games because it'd be real fuckin' boring to be playing as a Jedi and die because you failed to block a single blaster bolt.
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Apr 20, 2021 00:08
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I think the one time they got it right was the opening to Force Unleashed where the PC plays as Vader just walking around OHKing and force-choking everyone to death.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJsE3q0E2yw&t=168s
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Apr 20, 2021 01:42
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That would get pretty boring for anything longer than an intro sequence though. I dunno. Force Unleashed was particularly egregious but I think the "lol more like light-bat" stuff is a little overblown. I don't find it any more jarring than the fact that enemies in basically every FPS can tank gunshots that land anywhere other than the head. Especially in a game like Fallen Order where there's a rhythm of dodging/parrying/blocking and finally breaking through the opponent's defenses to score a hit, I can buy that the non-fatal hits are supposed to be equivalent to how, in the movies, heroes and non-fodder bad guys always take a couple glancing blows during a duel. That said the posture system in Sekiro absolutely sells this better than Fallen Order does. Hulk Krogan fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 03:30
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Didn't Jedi Academy have a reasonable dismemberment system? I seem to recall loads of occasions where things would slow-mo as you slashed some sucker in half or whatever. Could completely be misremembering though, it's a very long time since I last played it, and even then I spent most of it choking and pushing people into chasms.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:28
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Sentinel Red posted:Didn't Jedi Academy have a reasonable dismemberment system? I seem to recall loads of occasions where things would slow-mo as you slashed some sucker in half or whatever. Could completely be misremembering though, it's a very long time since I last played it, and even then I spent most of it choking and pushing people into chasms. Jedi Outcast had g_saberrealisticcombat where sabers could dismember opponents just by touching them It also meant enemies could do the same to you It's a little harder to do in Academy but the system still exists - plus, the NPC files have dismemberment probability you can mess with The slo-mo is based on the thereisnospoon command and could be set to happen with every enemy, Dark Jedi, or the last enemy in a group Vinylshadow fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 13:44
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Yeah, it was locked behind a console command in Outcast and Academy cause Raven Software was 100% onboard with saber dismemberment (as you'd expect of the devs who made Soldier of Fortune) but Lucas Arts took one look and said no loving way. In the default game, you would still rarely see a hand or forearm removal but nothing like the turning enemies into confetti you got with the console command enabled. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 14:53
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I always wanted to see a lightsaber game in the vein of bushido blade.
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Apr 20, 2021 14:58
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Bushido Blade didn't actually have much dismemberment, you'd just knock limbs out of commission.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:25
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Star Wars in the vein of Metal Gear Rising would've been great for the Maul game
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Apr 20, 2021 16:59
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Ghost of Tatooine?
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Apr 20, 2021 17:16
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Fuzz posted:Bushido Blade didn't actually have much dismemberment, you'd just knock limbs out of commission. I was thinking more along the lines of gameplay style, where the potentially interesting exploration of graphic dismemberment isn't really super necessary since the fight is already over. If you have a blade that can cut through anything, any touch is likely to be lethal.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:42
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Ghost of Tatooine? Not enough dismemberment.
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Apr 20, 2021 23:45
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Think I'm going to finally bust through this game on PS5. I had asked about combat tips, settings to tweak, etc. A ton of folks gave me great responses, but I cannot find it in the PS4 thread or here. I barely started when it first came out, so I'll probably just restart the whole thing. I remember being really bad. I haven't really played souls games--more of an ARPG button masher type. Combat tips, and any options/settings/controls to tweak? thanks 
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Apr 26, 2021 01:29
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Nostalgia4Dogges posted:Combat tips, and any options/settings/controls to tweak? thanks Play around with the control settings for what feels right if you're on a controller. The basic combat controls have things weirdly split between triggers and face buttons, and it feels so much better if you experiment a bit to set them up more naturally.
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Apr 26, 2021 01:33
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Guessing the PS5 update didn't include DS5 updates for the game, either
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Apr 26, 2021 01:35
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One of the biggest things I had to get used to is the delay between lowering a block and being able to raise it again. What this means is that for enemies with fast attack combos if you don’t parry the first attack - which may not actually stagger them out of the combo anyways - you shouldn’t lower your block to try and parry follow up attacks in the same combo. Just keep the block up until they stop swinging.
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Apr 26, 2021 01:37
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Kibayasu posted:One of the biggest things I had to get used to is the delay between lowering a block and being able to raise it again. What this means is that for enemies with fast attack combos if you don’t parry the first attack - which may not actually stagger them out of the combo anyways - you shouldn’t lower your block to try and parry follow up attacks in the same combo. Just keep the block up until they stop swinging. Constantly blocking is a surefire way to get your stamina broken and your health depleted Block one or two strikes, sure, but after that, you're better off disengaging via dodge-rolling (or once you get used to it, Precision Dodging to get Force back or Parrying for a counter) Eating poo poo against an enemy while you learn their attack strings is a perfectly valid tactic, I say, having done so to the point I can no damage against the saber bosses and good ol' Oggdo Bogdo The only time you should block is when you plan to parry, and is otherwise only useful to see an enemy's attack string and swing timing so you can then dodge/parry the next time they try it
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Apr 26, 2021 01:58
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I think it technically is possible to parry every attack in an enemy combo (except the red glowy unblockable ones of course), but barring nearly frame perfect inputs it is usually better to rotate through parry, block and evade. Kal's attacks are actually quite fast so one quick jab in between blocks/evades is a perfectly valid move against many enemies and completely bypasses their defenses if they are in the middle of a combo. Becoming good with precision evade also refills your force meter which lets you use moves that require the force a lot more liberally, and yes; you can precision evade blaster shots, even the unblockable ones. Most unblockable attacks can be halted/broken with a force push. Even the regular evade can let you ignore almost any attack.
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Apr 26, 2021 02:33
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ImpAtom posted:Lightsabers are not particularly special there. Enemy HP is not supposed to be realistic but an abstracted design of what is happening in terms of luck/near misses/whathaveyou in 90% of games because it'd be real fuckin' boring to be playing as a Jedi and die because you failed to block a single blaster bolt. I dunno, games where you can die to a single hit seem to be the opposite of boring, to me. Watching a HP bar go down seems like it takes more tension out of the problem.
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Apr 27, 2021 00:12
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Madurai posted:I dunno, games where you can die to a single hit seem to be the opposite of boring, to me. Watching a HP bar go down seems like it takes more tension out of the problem.
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Apr 27, 2021 00:35
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I suppose there could be a mechanic where stamina/health is the same resource, with your character auto-blocking attacks until they run out, at which point you need to actively deflect or you're dead in one hit.
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Apr 27, 2021 00:51
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Nostalgia4Dogges posted:I haven't really played souls games--more of an ARPG button masher type. I refunded DS because I am this type of gamer as well. I put this on the lowest difficulty and didn't really have to worry about any of the fights too much. If you don't like that style of gameplay and timing, you can pretty easily just say "gently caress it" and not have to deal with it and enjoy the story and exploration. Worked just fine for me.
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Apr 27, 2021 01:05
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I booted this back up to face off with Dark Cal in the mediation circle and he sure kicked my rear end a couple times.
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May 1, 2021 04:14
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quote:Coming this summer, we’re excited to announce the next-gen release of Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order, bringing a number of technical improvements to the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S console versions of the game. This will be a free cross-generation upgrade to current owners. More details will come soon. you can get it for $20-30 new at many retailers
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May 1, 2021 05:10
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Inqui Cal is such a satisfying fight once you get into the rhythm of it The no damage runs people do tend to get pretty silly too Or how about two of them?
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May 1, 2021 05:10
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Madurai posted:I dunno, games where you can die to a single hit seem to be the opposite of boring, to me. Watching a HP bar go down seems like it takes more tension out of the problem. There is a difference between the player dying in one hit and enemies dying in one hit. The latter is significantly harder to design around to the point where I have a hard time thinking of any game that actually sticks to that concept. Even games like Mario and Sonic may have their Goomba-alikes but bosses still take multiple blows. Creating a boss that is fun and engaging to fight but will instantly die the moment your laser sword touches them is not only difficult but tends to revolve around gameplay that is as far away from what people want as possible. Also beyond that is the fact that "The player dies in one hit no matter what" is such an absurdly niche style of gameplay that it's basically irrelevant to game design. Even games praised for their difficulty or challenge don't tend to do that and the ones that do are remembered negatively rather than positively. Even if you're a super de duper hardcore gamer who regularly no-hit finishes video games you're a vanishingly small percentage of gamers and when you are talking about big franchises like Star Wars you're not really going to get away with that.
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May 1, 2021 05:57
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I mean my spitball for how to make lightsaber combat in a video game interesting was to just make your health a stagger/stamina meter where 'getting hit' just means you deflect a near-fatal attack, and the death condition was just you or the boss no longer being able to defend against blows. stormtroopers would be goombas of course but you could have more difficult enemies by way of giving them armor to shrug off a couple hits or have lightsaber-resistant melee weapons like those droids from RotS.
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May 1, 2021 06:41
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I mean my spitball for how to make lightsaber combat in a video game interesting was to just make your health a stagger/stamina meter where 'getting hit' just means you deflect a near-fatal attack, and the death condition was just you or the boss no longer being able to defend against blows. stormtroopers would be goombas of course but you could have more difficult enemies by way of giving them armor to shrug off a couple hits or have lightsaber-resistant melee weapons like those droids from RotS. Yeah, but that is just a health meter. The only meaningful difference would be the animations at best.
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May 1, 2021 07:35
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, but that is just a health meter. The only meaningful difference would be the animations at best. I would argue that the animations and presentation are a huge, huge part of this particular issue?
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May 1, 2021 07:40
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Part of it is we are still a long way from video games being able to depict a lightsaber like the movie counterpart in more ways than just combat. For instance how many times does Cal come across a locked door and goes "I can't open that" while he is carrying a laser sword that cuts through anything. An accurate to the movies lightsaber breaks game mechanics on so many levels there is not really a practical way to implement one in a game. Even open world games with lots of non-linear focus would mechanically fall apart with a movie accurate lightsaber thrown in.
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May 1, 2021 12:49
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Hey I got this on sale and its kinda fun so far but I'm not quite grooving on the combat (have played a bunch of soulsborne though I'm not very good at it). I'm fighting the rabid not-rancor in the crashed Venator and it just feels very off, like my dodges don't have quite enough iframes as I think they do and also sometimes he just whacks me through a block even when hes not glowing. I think part of it is not having the timing down but I also just feel like something's off? Maybe I also need to just hunt down more secrets, I've gotten only like 1 life/force up and the stim under the landing pad on the first planet. (Also the game doesn't seem to autosave, which is a weird step back from Souls imo)
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May 4, 2021 05:09
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StashAugustine posted:Hey I got this on sale and its kinda fun so far but I'm not quite grooving on the combat (have played a bunch of soulsborne though I'm not very good at it). I'm fighting the rabid not-rancor in the crashed Venator and it just feels very off, like my dodges don't have quite enough iframes as I think they do and also sometimes he just whacks me through a block even when hes not glowing. I think part of it is not having the timing down but I also just feel like something's off? Maybe I also need to just hunt down more secrets, I've gotten only like 1 life/force up and the stim under the landing pad on the first planet. That is one of the tougher enemies in the game (Rabid Jotaz), somewhat because of the small arena it is in. I actually was fighting it last night and managed to kill it on the third attempt. Several times I'd easily dodge all three of its swipes and then score a couple hits, then all of a sudden one of its attacks connects when you thought the timing was the same and there goes 70% of your life. Also doesn't help that just one of his combos will use up all your block stamina if you miss the parry timing. On my successful attempt I managed to get by with about 80% dodging 20% parrying and only took one hit, but it was a bit easier because I did the drop in surprise attack to start the fight which peels off a lot of his health right at the beginning.
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May 4, 2021 23:03
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Also if you're thinking the combat feels janky and not good, don't worry don't feel bad you're right 
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May 4, 2021 23:43
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Combat feels janky against monster enemies but it rules against humanoids
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May 5, 2021 08:42
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