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John_A_Tallon posted:If we were at all smart, as a species, we would maintain bottlenecks on travel indefinitely. A mandatory two-week quarantine at either end of international trips would do wonders for slowing down any future pandemics, and would probably make the flu functionally extinct. This is a borderline psychotic level of overkill that would do far more harm than good. Even for a thread where the risk tolerance is way lower than average this really stands out as above and beyond. When you’re mitigating risk you have to look at 1)How effective it is 2)Benefits vs Drawbacks 3)If people will even accept it in the first place It’s not even something that would be incredibly effective in the long term since once you hit a critical mass of infected people, welp. It would completely turbofuck numerous industries, infrastructure construction in a lot of the world would be completely destroyed, healthcare relies on a fair bit of international travel (especially in poor countries), and people straight up wouldn’t accept it. And if you try to enforce something that gets reasonable people to just go “gently caress this and gently caress you” you lose their buy-in on other mitigation measures you put in place. Mask compliance would drop, more restaurants/bars would shirk the max headcount and other restrictions, it would be a mess.
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Apr 26, 2021 09:15
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Edit: nvm Edit edit: Bape Culture posted:Yeah make it so only rich people can do anything at all instead of investing in future tech and actually trying to aid social mobility lol You're misrepresenting the argument made. Nobody said anything about not investing in future tech or not trying to aid social mobility. The argument was " make air travel more expensive, it will reduce air travel" which is undeniably true. For example, it would seem quite feasible to take whatever new flight taxes and earmark them for R&D into technology or universal higher education whatever you like, just like gas taxes in the US are earmarked for traffic improvement measures. I know you might not agree but to me it would be smarter of <country X> to tax air travel and invest the money in education for the kids of those who can't afford to fly for leisure, instead of trying to make it "fair" by having flight cheap enough for more citizens to afford it. (Note: Everyone will still not be able to afford it.) The current situation is many countries actually subsidize airplane fuel (even supposedly climate-ambitious Western European countries). Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Apr 26, 2021 |
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Apr 26, 2021 10:14
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Rescue Toaster posted:Well, I'm hosed. I've been on anti-metabolite immunosupressant medication for years. I guess I'll be able to go out in public maybe in the 2025-2030 range if I'm lucky. Especially living in a midwest state where nobody gives a gently caress. Oh good. Same. JFC
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Apr 26, 2021 10:33
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Number_6 posted:It seems like C19 can kind of bounce around within a population for quite a while, appear to stabilize or even be diminishing, and then come back roaring. I don't think anything much really changed in America between March 2020 and October 2020, so why did we have the big surge in November through January? And for India, same kinda deal--did they abandon containment measures, or is this latest surge just from a more easily-spread variant? I've seen some articles speculating that super spreader events are really important for Covid accelerating transmission. The theory went that the virus kinda simmers away within a population mostly affecting very close contacts such that your average person probably only infects one or maybe two other people. However along the transmission chain you get events where heaps get infected from a single person and that's where the explosive growth comes from. Things like Trump rallies, church, huge religious festivals etc. Obviously the more people that get infected at an event the more new chains of transmission there are so overall there's a greater likelihood of another super spreader event will occur. It struck me as kind of random because around this time last year Covid was clearly widespread in the US but it wasn't like every single church service in states with large outbreaks turned into super spreader events despite having a room full of people singing at the top of their lungs for hours on end. But then some random in a bus would infect everyone else on board within less than an hour. Last year in NSW there was a small cluster that went undetected for over a month as it went around a household before a bunch of people got infected at the same time and it was picked up via testing.
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Apr 26, 2021 11:27
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Officially I'm supposed to go to Greece for work later this summer, but er...
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Apr 26, 2021 12:19
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gay picnic defence posted:I've seen some articles speculating that super spreader events are really important for Covid accelerating transmission. The term for this “overdispersion”, if anyone wants to learn more. This paper examines the physiological basis behind why some people are viral firehoses and others are viral squirt guns.
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Apr 26, 2021 12:27
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You know, I have a grim reaper costume too and making a sign that says "don't get vaccinated, I want to keep my job" while just hanging out holding a scythe and waving at people sounds good to me. maybe two signs. the other says "don't wear a mask. see you soon!"
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Apr 26, 2021 12:53
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Our local hospitals are in overflow here in Lansing, MI. lol
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Apr 26, 2021 14:17
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drat does it feel good to have the second dose over. I woke up in a pool of sweat last night, if I had any energy at the time I could have squeezed sweat out of my clothes, yet had to turn the heater on 80 because I was so cold. 36 hour mark post Pfizer#2 and I feel 1000% better than I did yesterday and 1000000% better than the night of.
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Apr 26, 2021 14:22
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The 2nd Pfizer vaccine hit me hard too. I had a temp of 101 while both shivering and sweating. Wheee!
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Apr 26, 2021 14:31
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Pfizer2 didn't even affect me! No symptoms at all.
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Apr 26, 2021 14:39
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16 hours into Pfizer 2, and other than the muscle at the injection site feeling like I failed hard at punch buggy, I feel just fine 
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Apr 26, 2021 14:42
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Ugly In The Morning posted:This is a borderline psychotic level of overkill that would do far more harm than good. Even for a thread where the risk tolerance is way lower than average this really stands out as above and beyond. Hippie Hedgehog posted:You're misrepresenting the argument made. Nobody said anything about not investing in future tech or not trying to aid social mobility. The argument was " make air travel more expensive, it will reduce air travel" which is undeniably true. Reducing international travel by letting the free market drive up prices is a terrible way of achieving pandemic reduction and will absolutely not work. Australia slammed their borders closed but made exceptions for returning citizens, essential business/government/military travel, compassionate travel (funerals, etc) and of course imports were deemed essential so we still had container ships and cargo planes coming in all the time. Tourists were told to gently caress off, only actually essential travel was allowed and even then it was heavily regulated and some Australian citizens still haven't managed to get home (mostly the ones who ignored the "Come home now or you might get stuck overseas!" warnings last year). Of course there were a few dumb exceptions like Hollywood stars who were quietly allowed in and everyone got pissed off about it when the story inevitably leaked but that's par for the course and as long as they were the exceptions and not the general rule there's little harm done. I'm guessing that it just wouldn't be possible to enact travel restrictions like that in the US, people just wouldn't stand for it. Even if they could somehow push it through there's still a gigantic amount of essential US imports arriving via road and it's much much harder to regulate those drivers in terms of pandemic restrictions compared to crews from ships or planes. Of course even if the US could close the borders it's pretty much useless on its own and has to be done in conjunction with a raft of other mitigation restrictions such as lockdowns, mask mandates, contact tracing, social isolating etc etc to smash the number of infections that are already in the country. It's just one tool in the toolbox, if you're not already making a serious attempt at enacting all that other stuff then closing the border is basically security theatre. Canada's useless border closures where returned air travelers only had to quarantine for three days is another example of bullshit security theatre. I guess we can add "effectively closing borders" to the list of things that the US doesn't have the political will to enact, along with mask mandates and everything else. I have no idea what the solution to this might be. Rascar Capac posted:Officially I'm supposed to go to Greece for work later this summer, but er... India is massively underreporting their cases and deaths (their test positivity rate is roughly 30% across the country and even as high as 50% in some states) and it's nigh impossible to figure out exactly how bad it is there right now, especially in comparison to any other country. It might take a year or so before we get an indication of their excess deaths and piece together some of how bad it is, but we might never really know for sure. On the other hand Greece announced a few days ago that they were going to start lifting pandemic restrictions but they also found their first local case of the Indian 'double mutant' B.1.617 covid variant just yesterday so who knows how that'll end up .........................
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Apr 26, 2021 14:56
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Happy Hedonist posted:Our local hospitals are in overflow here in Lansing, MI. lol meanwhile the MSU Pavilion vaccination clinic is desperately advertising for walk-ins
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Apr 26, 2021 15:51
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i reffed a bunch of soccer games this weekend, 7 days after my 2nd shot, the only thing i've done since march of last year that wasnt going to the grocery store or for food i can't believe the number of people that were not only not wearing masks, but like, seriously considering whether they should get a shot or not it's just impossible to underestimate how stupid everything is
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Apr 26, 2021 16:03
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boar guy posted:i reffed a bunch of soccer games this weekend, 7 days after my 2nd shot, the only thing i've done since march of last year that wasnt going to the grocery store or for food I hope you carry your equipment at all times so when you hear poo poo like this you can blast the whistle in their face and show them a yellow card
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Apr 26, 2021 16:31
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boar guy posted:i reffed a bunch of soccer games this weekend, 7 days after my 2nd shot, the only thing i've done since march of last year that wasnt going to the grocery store or for food you reffed them, which allowed the games to go on. you were part of it. I don't understand. you literally enabled it. why are you surprised?
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Apr 26, 2021 16:44
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boar guy posted:i reffed a bunch of soccer games this weekend, 7 days after my 2nd shot, the only thing i've done since march of last year that wasnt going to the grocery store or for food Exceedingly, brain meltingly stupid. I cover for major retail pharmacies all over Louisiana and nobody gives a single poo poo about anything. I end up having semi regular arguments with coworkers who believe masks and public restrictions are onerous and unnecessary. Does it matter that I now know more pharmacists and techs that caught covid than haven't? Could it possibly be related to how we might be lucky to see a single mask per 50 people at work? Nah, if you're gonna get it you're just gonna get it, that's how it is (no it isn't you fatalistic dullard). When we started vaccinations we were struggling to keep up with 40 a day and now we struggle to use a single vial without wasting shots; I'm starting to worry we're going to top out at ~45% vaccinated, tops.
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Apr 26, 2021 16:46
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:you reffed them, which allowed the games to go on. you were part of it. I don't understand. you literally enabled it. why are you surprised? 
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Apr 26, 2021 16:53
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:you reffed them, which allowed the games to go on. you were part of it. I don't understand. you literally enabled it. why are you surprised? it's going to happen anyway, and i'm fully vaccinated. at least i can model wearing a mask when you're supposed to and try to instruct the kids to keep set pieces short it's not a decision i made lightly, trust me greazeball posted:I hope you carry your equipment at all times so when you hear poo poo like this you can blast the whistle in their face and show them a yellow card it was mainly the other refs that were having a hard time deciding
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Apr 26, 2021 16:55
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If ya part of the game, knowing it will involve a high risk of covid transmission because everyone will be on top of each other, why would you be surprised if the people involved in a high risk transmission event are flippant about covid safety  it's like going into a steakhouse and being surprised most of the people there aren't vegans.
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Apr 26, 2021 16:56
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Yeah, not a great take. People are allowed to slowly filter back into doing certain safe activities while taking precautions, it doesn't make them COVID collaborators or something if it enables some other people to take part unsafely. There will always be people skirting the rules, you aren't responsible for their actions and it isn't fair to a) get blamed for them or b) hamstring your own life in some nebulous and vain attempt to derail said activities by refusing to participate. It isn't like boldly not reffing a soccer game will prevent it from taking place wholesale.
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Apr 26, 2021 16:59
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outdoor soccer is not a high risk transmission event, though? it's about the least risky thing you could do right now outside of like tennis i have been hardcore HARDCORE quarantining. for 13 months. saw no one. did nothing. it can't last forever and this is imho a baby step towards normalcy. i would have preferred they waited unti the fall season for games but it's simply not going to happen
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Apr 26, 2021 16:59
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Ugly In The Morning posted:This is a borderline psychotic level of overkill that would do far more harm than good. Even for a thread where the risk tolerance is way lower than average this really stands out as above and beyond. It would be amazingly effective in the long term because it prevents spread into populations in the first place. Infections start small and then balloon. It's effective against anything with an incubation period shorter than the quarantine period. It discourages sick people from even attempting to skirt by the system because a long enough quarantine means they can't hide symptoms with OTC cold remedies to sneak past temperature screening or other methods that have been tried in the past. And it saves lives. Even if there's not another novel pandemic (there will be), stopping the spread of the common flu will save lives, reduce human suffering, and improve conditions for workers. Admittedly that could also be achieved if workers and employers had adequate amounts of sick leave available and had perfect compliance to guidelines about when to take sick leave or send a sick worker home, but the most selfish option of working sick or letting/encouraging a worker to work sick happens a lot and would be effectively impossible to actually police. Individual sectors that have decided to rely on quickly moving workers around would need to adapt to having a longer lead time on worker relocations, and could adopt measures like remote work, training and hiring local workers, and using teleoperation for many industries that require skilled on-site labor. It's not an impossible problem to solve. It presents greater expense to companies looking to minimize human resources, and yes it does put a damper on fragile economies that rely overly much on tourism. Such economies can pivot to providing remote services, training and employing local expertise that would have otherwise been filled by temporarily imported foreign labor, and to developing robust economies that are not centered around funneling as many walking wallets through customs as possible. Throttling back the rate of international travel effectively greatly increases the value of local experts. It's a good thing for the majority of the world.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:35
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boar guy posted:outdoor soccer is not a high risk transmission event, though? it's about the least risky thing you could do right now outside of like tennis And it's still not safe to do these things with people who aren't vaccinated, but you did, so I'm confused as to why you're so surprised they're flaunting covid security when you did, too, and helped them to do it. You don't get an award for doing the right thing in the face of a worldwide pandemic just because you got tired and decided to push normalcy when every health expert says we're not ready for it in most countries. PS: It's been almost 14 months here and it doesn't have to last forever, but people going back to normal activities early is why we have 3 million people dead around the world. Jeza posted:Yeah, not a great take. People are allowed to slowly filter back into doing certain safe activities while taking precautions, it doesn't make them COVID collaborators or something if it enables some other people to take part unsafely. There will always be people skirting the rules, you aren't responsible for their actions and it isn't fair to a) get blamed for them or b) hamstring your own life in some nebulous and vain attempt to derail said activities by refusing to participate. Except: -Participating in an unsafe event, including playing the game yourself as a ref, does make you somewhat responsible for the game going on. Sure, they would've found another ref, but boar guy wouldn't have been involved. -There is risk of outdoor transmission, especially when they state there were people without masks there and the game players themselves are in close contact throughout the game and doubtlessly maskless -Said poster is calling people out for not taking precautions all around them while actively being involved in those people being there to do that. If you don't want people to do unsafe stuff, don't be involved in it; or don't be surprised that people are doing unsafe things while you're actively there involved in that unsafe thing. I get quarantine fatigue but like I said; it's like going into a steakhouse and being shocked the people aren't vegan. E: I'm not biting boar guy's face off, I just think it's kinda funny that he's like "my gosh, I'm shocked at these people!" when he's... he's there among them enabling them. Like a bartender giving people drinks and being shocked that someone gets shitfaced, y'know?
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Apr 26, 2021 17:40
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Yeah my second shot is tomorrow night and I'm working on relaxing a little too. Still masking up and distancing, but I'm excited to be able to worry a little less and maybe go have a meal outdoors with my wife. Meanwhile my inlaws are jumping a plane to idaho then illinois after that for..??? I guess they're just stir crazy and want to really see if they can get a breakthrough infection.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:40
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:And it's still not safe to do these things with people who aren't vaccinated, but you did, so I'm confused as to why you're so surprised they're flaunting covid security when you did, too, and helped them to do it. you're an idiot
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Apr 26, 2021 17:42
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boar guy posted:you're an idiot big man call little lady idiot because him mad. so strong. big tough.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:44
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boar guy posted:you're an idiot People like you are why the world is in its current situation.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:45
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I look forward to putting my life on hold perpetually because of 50% of the population deciding a vaccine for the common cold isn't needed. I'll have the best view from my moral highground.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:45
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John_A_Tallon posted:People like you are why the world is in its current situation. did you miss the part where i said i didnt leave the house for 14 months and that the games will happen anyway and someone less responsible than i am will be in charge of them or that it wasn't a decision i arrived at lightly they are opening up california to everything in 6 weeks. me sitting at home doesn't accomplish anything
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Apr 26, 2021 17:47
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The store I work at finally had our first positive case. I'm amazed it didn't happen before now. One of our managers had been feeling pretty bad on and off, finally one night when her hands were almost going purple they told her to get to the hospital. Sure enough, positive test and very low spo2. It was fun trying to go through the schedule and interview everyone that was working with her for a few days, figuring out if any of them had had close contact. A couple people got quarantined, but it ended there. Or so we hope. See, policy is everyone does a health check after clocking in, the manager asks them the usual series of questions we're all used to by now and plugs them into the computer. Of course this is retail where we don't have enough time to do everything without a pandemic, so after a few hundred times of entering the staff it gets shortened to just "All no's?" or such. Or even just assuming when someone shows up to work and oh poo poo we gotta plug these in before corporate checks them and throws a fit people get entered without being asked anything. Well, one of the associates came into work sick, didn't say anything to anyone, and ended up testing positive. His reasoning for not telling anyone he thought he might have it? "They didn't ask me the questions on the health screen so I didn't say anything." He's one of those people who just revels in being a contrary gently caress, so it's pretty unsuprising.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:47
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boar guy posted:did you miss the part where i said i didnt leave the house for 14 months and that the games will happen anyway and someone less responsible than i am will be in charge of them or that it wasn't a decision i arrived at lightly Did you miss the point by point indictment of your irresponsible behavior? You clearly skimmed it at least, you spent the effort to reply insultingly, but I don't think you actually understood any of it in your selfish rush to absolve yourself of any responsibility or wrongdoing for encouraging bad behavior in peers and children. You idiot.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:51
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John_A_Tallon posted:Did you miss the point by point indictment of your irresponsible behavior? lol
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Apr 26, 2021 17:52
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I look forward to putting my life on hold perpetually because of 50% of the population deciding a vaccine for the common cold isn't needed. are you gonna take over my funerals for the 50% or what's up? 'cuz you can have'em. I'm so tired of zoom funerals. PS: The US posted right around 88,000 new cases over the last two days and a little under a thousand deaths. John_A_Tallon posted:People like you are why the world is in its current situation. yep. every single person that stays home from stuff like that is one less person that can transfer virus. 7 days into your 2nd shot does not make you fully vaccinated, either.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:52
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lol, just...never mind. too hysterical in here for my tastes 
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Apr 26, 2021 17:53
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boar guy posted:lol, just...never mind. too hysterical in here for my tastes peace out pro-virus pigbro, I hope there were 0 cases from that unsafe sporting event and I hope in 7 days your vaccine is mighty and powerful and protects you while you do whatever risky poo poo you're gonna do because you stayed home like health experts needed you to do until you got tired of it.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:56
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:are you gonna take over my funerals for the 50% or what's up? 'cuz you can have'em. I'm so tired of zoom funerals. Soon, when the vaccine resistant strains start spreading about, or one that really starts dropping kids then it is back in the hole, but at that point it will once again be for individual risk. This isn't lethal enough that staying sheltered for another year will allow you to come out in 2022 with an America that suddenly gives a poo poo. Tomorrow I'm going to have a beer on a patio, it's relatively safe for me and those who will be around by consequence of me. Kant would poo poo himself, but he is loving dead.
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Apr 26, 2021 18:01
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boar guy posted:lol Laugh it up rear end in a top hat. Meanwhile my wife is working 12 hour days, 6 days a week as a PCP and worried sick about bringing covid home.
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Apr 26, 2021 18:02
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Jesus christ stfu everyone.
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Apr 26, 2021 18:02
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