Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
twoday
May 4, 2005



C-SPAM Times best-selling author
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl7siWwzibs

A documentary about the history of pants, and a detailed reconstruction of the oldest pair of pants ever discovered

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Archduke Frantz Fanon
Sep 7, 2004

Mola Yam posted:

"The general said, Sir, Are you ready? I said, I'm ready. And he led me to a ramp that was long and steep and slippery. And I said, I got a problem because I wear, you know, the leather sandals. I can show them to you if you like. Same pair. And you know what I mean, they're slippery. I like them better than the cork because they don't catch. So they're better for this. But they're not good for ramps. I said, General, I got a problem here. That ramp is slippery. So I'm going to go real easy. So I did. And then the last 10 feet I ran down."

-Kleon of Athens

KLOENP

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

twoday posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl7siWwzibs

A documentary about the history of pants, and a detailed reconstruction of the oldest pair of pants ever discovered

I liked how Romans whined about pants wearing hipsters ruining traditional roman values.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug
https://twitter.com/WhoresofYore/status/1386694726208925697?s=20

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


twoday posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl7siWwzibs

A documentary about the history of pants, and a detailed reconstruction of the oldest pair of pants ever discovered

Oh hell yes.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006



god can't take you to heaven if he can't grab ya by the nipples

Bideo James
Oct 21, 2020

you'll have to ask someone else about the size of her cans

Mola Yam posted:

"The general said, Sir, Are you ready? I said, I'm ready. And he led me to a ramp that was long and steep and slippery. And I said, I got a problem because I wear, you know, the leather sandals. I can show them to you if you like. Same pair. And you know what I mean, they're slippery. I like them better than the cork because they don't catch. So they're better for this. But they're not good for ramps. I said, General, I got a problem here. That ramp is slippery. So I'm going to go real easy. So I did. And then the last 10 feet I ran down."

-Kleon of Athens

twoday
May 4, 2005



C-SPAM Times best-selling author

etalian posted:

I liked how Romans whined about pants wearing hipsters ruining traditional roman values.

I liked how they showed the trend of pants-wearing sweeping across Eurasia but failing to make it to Scotland

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




etalian posted:

I liked how Romans whined about pants wearing hipsters ruining traditional roman values.

The ancient greeks didn't like pants either. One of the examples they used when they talked about how unmanly the persians were was that they wore pants.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

etalian posted:

I liked how Romans whined about pants wearing hipsters ruining traditional roman values.

also goatees were a hipster facial hair at one point around when caesar was a young man

Hot Karl Marx
Mar 16, 2009

Politburo regulations about social distancing require to downgrade your Karlmarxing to cold, and sorry about the dnc primaries, please enjoy!
https://twitter.com/archaeologyart/status/1378792002784006145?s=19

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009


must have sucked to get stabbed by this dull piece of poo poo

Bideo James
Oct 21, 2020

you'll have to ask someone else about the size of her cans
Human sacrifice is a myth made up by colonizers


It was just art

Moloch is the only God who demands sacrifice

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018

Crusader posted:

you didn’t tell me what to do with the sad lion so here’s your brand new sad lion

lmao

:(

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




Bideo James posted:

Human sacrifice is a myth made up by colonizers


It was just art

Moloch is the only God who demands sacrifice

i think they found a lot of murdered teen bodies but maybe its time to edit a controversy section into the wiki article on pre-columbian human sacrifice as a troll

Crusty Nutsack
Apr 21, 2005

SUCK LASER, COPPERS


twoday posted:

I liked how they showed the trend of pants-wearing sweeping across Eurasia but failing to make it to Scotland

kilt supremacy! much more multi-use than pants

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Bideo James posted:

Human sacrifice is a myth made up by colonizers

Columbus put child mummies on Llullaillaco and Pichu Pichu to trick us.

Ratios and Tendency
Apr 23, 2010

:swoon: MURALI :swoon:


Crusty Nutsack posted:

kilt supremacy! much more multi-use than pants

Post/username

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Bideo James posted:

Human sacrifice is a myth made up by colonizers


It was just art

Moloch is the only God who demands sacrifice

The perspective i saw from a native archeologist dude was to compare the amount of sacrifice in aztec society to burning witches and the inquisition. They were no more evil or good than the spanish (as of the moment of contact), given that the aztecs were literally an imperialist state themselves. The spanish also then did atrocities on a scale unmatched until full on chattel slavery was instituted and european colonialism really got rolling

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




looks at the inquisition: this killing is what god wants!
looks at sacrifices: you cant kill to worship god! rar!

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Real hurthling! posted:

looks at the inquisition: this killing is what god wants!
looks at sacrifices: you cant kill to worship god! rar!

see also the Romans just sending people to die in the mines but getting really really angry that the Carthaginians sacrificed like 2 people a year

also the romans themselves sacrificing 2 people after Cannae because they lost their goddamn minds in fear of hannibal

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019

WoodrowSkillson posted:

see also the Romans just sending people to die in the mines but getting really really angry that the Carthaginians sacrificed like 2 people a year

also the romans themselves sacrificing 2 people after Cannae because they lost their goddamn minds in fear of hannibal

the romans never criticized the carthegians for human sacrifice. In the play “ The Little Carthaginian“, they compliment the piety of the punics for sacrificing well born children, and mlk offerings weren’t banned in the Roman province of Africa until 304

Also, why are you using mines as the example when you have gladiator games which were descended from Etruscan sacrifice rituals?

PawParole has issued a correction as of 15:23 on Apr 27, 2021

America
Apr 26, 2017

PawParole posted:

the romans never criticized the carthegians for human sacrifice. In the play “ The Little Carthaginian“, they compliment the piety of the punics for sacrificing well born children.

Also, why are you using mines as the example when you have gladiator games which were descended from Etruscan sacrifice rituals?

I would like to know more!

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019

America posted:

I would like to know more!

“ Adopted from the earlier Etruscans, perhaps by way of Campania, gladiatorial games (munera) originated in the rites of sacrifice due the spirits of the dead and the need to propitiate them with offerings of blood.”

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/gladiators.html

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

WoodrowSkillson posted:

The perspective i saw from a native archeologist dude was to compare the amount of sacrifice in aztec society to burning witches and the inquisition. They were no more evil or good than the spanish (as of the moment of contact), given that the aztecs were literally an imperialist state themselves. The spanish also then did atrocities on a scale unmatched until full on chattel slavery was instituted and european colonialism really got rolling

the fall of civilizations dude also had an interesting take on it, that since most of astec warfare was based around capturing and sacrificing the enemy, a lot of the sacrifices were basically transferring the murdering part of war from the battlefield to the temples

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

PawParole posted:

the romans never criticized the carthegians for human sacrifice. In the play “ The Little Carthaginian“, they compliment the piety of the punics for sacrificing well born children, and mlk offerings weren’t banned in the Roman province of Africa until 304

Also, why are you using mines as the example when you have gladiator games which were descended from Etruscan sacrifice rituals?

https://historyofyesterday.com/ancient-accusations-of-human-sacrifice-4226fa3c251a

There are a bunch of them in here, here is an example

quote:

As a result, with this logic, the Romans could differentiate between the offering of humans to the gods (which was usually unacceptable), and deadly rituals (which was common). This made it possible for Romans to rationalize human sacrifice as something that others did. Roman use of semantics created an image of enlightenment despite everyday brutality. To further crystalize these constructed comparisons, the Romans would portray rival’s cultures harshly, such as that of the Carthaginians. Graeco-Roman writers often claimed that the Carthaginians sacrificed humans to their gods. Justin states Carthage adopted the practice because of early calamities (Justin 18.6.11):

Being afflicted, among other calamities, with a pestilence, they adopted a cruel religious ceremony, an execrable abomination, as a remedy for it; for they immolated human beings as victims, and brought children (whose age excites pity even in enemies) to the altars, entreating favour of the gods by shedding the blood of those for whose life the gods are generally wont to be entreated.

Inspector Hound
Jul 14, 2003

Hannibal loving ruled

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Inspector Hound posted:

Hannibal loving ruled

His various battles are military masterstrokes using every sort of trick in the book from ambushes to mis-direction to defeat much larger armies.

Like many other military commanders like Pyrrhus/Spartacus.

Hannibal successful victories against the romans he wasn't able to overcome Roman style Total War mobilization of society and how they always managed to replace their massive
losses.

My favorite one weird trick had to battle of Lake Trasimae given how it relied on multiple advanced tactics
-Use of Terrain for the Ambush against the Romans while they vulnerable in a column formation
-Using misdirection into tricking the Romans into believing his camp was occupied using the old campfire trick
-Moving his entire army into position without being detected
-Selecting a battlefield that would naturally hem in the Romans to prevent most of them from escaping

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

etalian posted:

His various battles are military masterstrokes using every sort of trick in the book from ambushes to mis-direction to defeat much larger armies.

Like many other military commanders like Pyrrhus/Spartacus.

Hannibal successful victories against the romans he wasn't able to overcome Roman style Total War mobilization of society and how they always managed to replace their massive
losses.

My favorite one weird trick had to battle of Lake Trasimae given how it relied on multiple advanced tactics
-Use of Terrain for the Ambush against the Romans while they vulnerable in a column formation
-Using misdirection into tricking the Romans into believing his camp was occupied using the old campfire trick
-Moving his entire army into position without being detected
-Selecting a battlefield that would naturally hem in the Romans to prevent most of them from escaping

"Hannibal, know how to gain a victory; you do not know how to use it." - Maharbal (supposedly) after Cannae.

I maintain in the face of more educated arguments that if he had marched on the city he may have taken it without a fight.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




hannibal and scipo meet at an old age home in asia years after zama and argue about the best generals of all time.
they agree that alexander the great is number 1 but scipio balks at hannibal placing himself 2nd when scipio defeated him.

hannibals retort is that his loss merely kept him out of 1st place

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019


Justin Matyr was a Christian author writing in the late antique era cribbing off the Old Testament, citing him as an example of what “graeco-romans” thought of Carthagian rites is incredibly wrong.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

WoodrowSkillson posted:

"Hannibal, know how to gain a victory; you do not know how to use it." - Maharbal (supposedly) after Cannae.

I maintain in the face of more educated arguments that if he had marched on the city he may have taken it without a fight.

The city still had walls though. Maybe he could have stormed it while they were panicking or convinced them to surrender, but it's not like the gates were open.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
also, as mentioned, the early romans were legendarily insane in their sheer refusal to lose a war

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Real hurthling! posted:

hannibal and scipo meet at an old age home in asia years after zama and argue about the best generals of all time.
they agree that alexander the great is number 1 but scipio balks at hannibal placing himself 2nd when scipio defeated him.

hannibals retort is that his loss merely kept him out of 1st place

It was at a banquet hosted by the Seleucid king Antiochus III. Hannibal was given asylum there, and then in the subsequent war with Rome, Antiochus only let Hannibal command some naval ships.

sullat posted:

The city still had walls though. Maybe he could have stormed it while they were panicking or convinced them to surrender, but it's not like the gates were open.

My contention is the terrified populace would have opened the gates, or rioted until they were opened. This is not a wild thing as that happened historically in many sieges, and the Romans were going apeshit in fear after losing all of their best young officers and such between trasimene and then cannae.

WoodrowSkillson has issued a correction as of 16:34 on Apr 27, 2021

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019

Human sacrifice was common in the ancient world anyway,

In Ancient Greece for example, at Leucas a person was every year at the festival of Apollo thrown from a rock into the sea (Strab. X p452); and Themistocles before the battle of Salamis is said to have sacrificed three Persians to Dionysius (Plut. Them. 13, Arist. 9, Pelop. 21).

Moreover, at the Thargalia of Athens the ugliest man and women would be sacrificed:

“ On the day when the sacrifice was to be performed the victims were led out of the city to a place near the sea, with the accompaniment of a peculiar melody, called κραδίης νόμος, played on the flute (Hesych, s.v.). The neck of the one who died for the men was surrounded with a garland of black figs, and that of the other with a garland of white ones; and while they were proceeding to the place of their destiny they were beaten with rods of fig-wood, and figs and other things were thrown at them. Cheese, figs, and cake were put into their hands that they might eat them. They were at last burnt on a funeral pile made of wild fig-wood, and their ashes were thrown into the sea and scattered to the winds (Tzetzes, Chil. V.25). Some writers maintain from a passage of Ammonius (de Different. Vocab. p142, ed. Valck.) that they were thrown into the sea alive, but this passage leaves the matter uncertain.”

Imagine being chosen as the ugliest person in town lmao

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

PawParole posted:

Human sacrifice was common in the ancient world anyway,

In Ancient Greece for example, at Leucas a person was every year at the festival of Apollo thrown from a rock into the sea (Strab. X p452); and Themistocles before the battle of Salamis is said to have sacrificed three Persians to Dionysius (Plut. Them. 13, Arist. 9, Pelop. 21).

Moreover, at the Thargalia of Athens the ugliest man and women would be sacrificed:

“ On the day when the sacrifice was to be performed the victims were led out of the city to a place near the sea, with the accompaniment of a peculiar melody, called κραδίης νόμος, played on the flute (Hesych, s.v.). The neck of the one who died for the men was surrounded with a garland of black figs, and that of the other with a garland of white ones; and while they were proceeding to the place of their destiny they were beaten with rods of fig-wood, and figs and other things were thrown at them. Cheese, figs, and cake were put into their hands that they might eat them. They were at last burnt on a funeral pile made of wild fig-wood, and their ashes were thrown into the sea and scattered to the winds (Tzetzes, Chil. V.25). Some writers maintain from a passage of Ammonius (de Different. Vocab. p142, ed. Valck.) that they were thrown into the sea alive, but this passage leaves the matter uncertain.”

Imagine being chosen as the ugliest person in town lmao

lol what an assholish ritual. the aztecs at least the decency to

1) choose the hottest, not the ugliest
2) give them a year of living like a god in the absolute lap of luxury

twoday
May 4, 2005



C-SPAM Times best-selling author
In the grand finale of any Roman Triumph celebrating newly conquered lands two white bulls were led to the Capitoline Temple and offered as sacrifices, and also at the same time and in the same place any captured enemy combatants and leaders were executed in front of the temple, which was NOT a human sacrifice for some reason, very much unlike those dastardly carthaginians

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

PawParole posted:

Human sacrifice was common in the ancient world anyway,

In Ancient Greece for example, at Leucas a person was every year at the festival of Apollo thrown from a rock into the sea (Strab. X p452); and Themistocles before the battle of Salamis is said to have sacrificed three Persians to Dionysius (Plut. Them. 13, Arist. 9, Pelop. 21).

Moreover, at the Thargalia of Athens the ugliest man and women would be sacrificed:

“ On the day when the sacrifice was to be performed the victims were led out of the city to a place near the sea, with the accompaniment of a peculiar melody, called κραδίης νόμος, played on the flute (Hesych, s.v.). The neck of the one who died for the men was surrounded with a garland of black figs, and that of the other with a garland of white ones; and while they were proceeding to the place of their destiny they were beaten with rods of fig-wood, and figs and other things were thrown at them. Cheese, figs, and cake were put into their hands that they might eat them. They were at last burnt on a funeral pile made of wild fig-wood, and their ashes were thrown into the sea and scattered to the winds (Tzetzes, Chil. V.25). Some writers maintain from a passage of Ammonius (de Different. Vocab. p142, ed. Valck.) that they were thrown into the sea alive, but this passage leaves the matter uncertain.”

Imagine being chosen as the ugliest person in town lmao

talk about adding insult to injury

Grevling
Dec 18, 2016

Talking about the inquisition reminded me of this weird case which I recently learned about, where a group of people called cagots were persecuted for centuries in Iberia and Western France, but we have no idea why and from the looks of it the people doing the persecuting didn't either, they were just outcasts and that was it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Ceremonially killing people is a traditional method of affirming the state's power over life and death. The method of selection and manner of death varies considerably but at the end of the day, the important thing is that the state does a big-league flex on the common citizen.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply