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Cheers! Not sure yet, I guess we're sticking with Roll20 for Cairn for now and maybe explore other options while we're running it. If I had to pick one aspect I could have it would be condition tracking. That always used to trip us up even when we had Masterplan. I wish I could just put the Masterplan player screen online. Maybe if I streamed it...
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Mar 19, 2021 08:15
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Ok, so I have a cool idea for a boss, but I wonder if the power I want to give him is over the top? If you're playing in my game don't read this obvs. The idea is an elite monster who gets 2 turns, and they're at level or maybe slightly above level for the party. The power is that they always roll publically, but also they get to decide what they're going to do after they roll. I want it to be like a timey wimey thing. I like the idea but it might be too strong for 4e? I don't know how much of the math is super reliant on RNG.
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Mar 26, 2021 03:34
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4e characters of mid-level and above can pull off absurd bullshit and probably take anything you throw at them. Give it a shot and see how it works. I don't think it'll be particularly strong - after all, they are still rolling the same dice as normal. They just know the outcome first. Keep a safety mechanism at hand to narrate away the ability if it's too good.
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Mar 26, 2021 06:13
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Boba Pearl posted:Ok, so I have a cool idea for a boss, but I wonder if the power I want to give him is over the top? If you're playing in my game don't read this obvs. You need to know how you're going to handle players' triggered abilities that can affect rolls. Particularly things that for instance, might only affect an attack roll against an ally, but not against themself, or only an attack roll but not a skill check, etc. When do they get to use them and how? That's probably something to tailor to your specific players' abilities, though.
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Mar 26, 2021 14:17
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Boba Pearl posted:Ok, so I have a cool idea for a boss, but I wonder if the power I want to give him is over the top? If you're playing in my game don't read this obvs. I understand the idea, but maybe the best implementation of it is to give their powers a buff effect on a miss. "the lesser eidolon realizes its attack was going to miss and protects itself/charges up instead". Unless your players specifically have triggers on missed attacks, that should get you most of the way there. Maybe give it an autohit zwee-smack on recharge 6, teleport adjacent and land a hit when "the fates align". Glazius fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 26, 2021 |
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Mar 26, 2021 20:46
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Boba Pearl posted:Ok, so I have a cool idea for a boss, but I wonder if the power I want to give him is over the top? If you're playing in my game don't read this obvs. First Cairn session was an absolute blast, we went two hours over our usual time and everyone was super into it. There's this throwaway bit before the adventure really kicks off about the townsfolk arguing the best way to deal with the crisis, and we got some good roleplaying out of painting one guy as the local conspiracy theorist leader, where the party at various points had to break up an argument between him and the town's lord warden, keep him from getting a lynch mob together, and deal with his suspicions against them ("oh yes what a coincidence the complete strangers arrive just in time to deal with a magic ship crewed by the undead, are you all blind"). Eventually they managed to disprove his accusations that they themselves had the Winter King's Scepter and then realized that to get anywhere they would have to proclaim to the magic ship that they had the Winter King's Scepter, so they waited until night when everyone was asleep. I made sure that as soon as they did it there was a cry of "I knew it! Alarm!" from a nearby bush. I need to keep this guy around as a social antagonist into Gardmore Abbey. Maybe he can sponsor the rival adventurers.
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Mar 28, 2021 08:19
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Can anyone think of two magic items that have good synergy (or even a bonus) when two different characters wear them? Two of my players haven't come up with anything for their wishlist, so as long as I'm picking things for them I want to make it a bit special. They're both chainmail wearing, sword wielding Raven Queen followers, paladin and cleric, so the idea kinda suggests itself.
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Apr 28, 2021 19:21
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You could houserule some items based on the Tribal feats from Primal Power, where you get a base bonus, plus an additional bonus for each ally within 10 squares who had the same feat/item. Fearsome Host is one I’ve looked at before for my Paladin.
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Apr 28, 2021 20:31
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My Lovely Horse posted:Can anyone think of two magic items that have good synergy (or even a bonus) when two different characters wear them? Two of my players haven't come up with anything for their wishlist, so as long as I'm picking things for them I want to make it a bit special. They're both chainmail wearing, sword wielding Raven Queen followers, paladin and cleric, so the idea kinda suggests itself. Adventurer's Vault 2 played around with set bonuses and group item sets. You could probably just as easily turn a set bonus into a group set bonus without going mad from power.
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Apr 28, 2021 22:19
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My Lovely Horse posted:Can anyone think of two magic items that have good synergy (or even a bonus) when two different characters wear them? Two of my players haven't come up with anything for their wishlist, so as long as I'm picking things for them I want to make it a bit special. They're both chainmail wearing, sword wielding Raven Queen followers, paladin and cleric, so the idea kinda suggests itself. Couple of rings that let them pool their healing surges?
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Apr 28, 2021 23:02
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I've heard a lot about 4e and there seems to be a lot of people who say that some of the later stuff is bad and wrecks the balance. Is there a basic guide for what to avoid if I wanted to just read through classes to see what catches my interest?
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Apr 29, 2021 04:59
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Taciturn Tactician posted:I've heard a lot about 4e and there seems to be a lot of people who say that some of the later stuff is bad and wrecks the balance. Is there a basic guide for what to avoid if I wanted to just read through classes to see what catches my interest? So, I kinda liked some of the essentials stuff, but it's not amazing. It's still pretty cheap though, and the main classes are in Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms. The main classes are mostly split between the three Players Handbooks, and if you only intend to play then those will give you the rules and the classes. The Power books (Martial Power 1 and 2, Arcane Power, Divine Power, Primal Power, and Psionic Power) will provide additional class features, powers and feats, but there are quite a few of them so I wouldn't buy any of them until you knew what kind of class you felt like playing. I understand a lot of people didn't like the Psionic stuff, but I'm fine with it to be honest. It's a little more complex than the other classes, but I don't see it being badly balanced. If you don't want psionics, and are willing to do without the monk and the ability to use hybrid classes (which aren't all that great, imo), you can do without Players Handbook 3. If you actually want to run a game, you're going to need at least the first Dungeon Masters' Guide and Monster Manual; the second Dungeon Masters' Guide is also highly recommended, followed by the other two Monster Manuals. The two Dungeon Masters' Guides are some of the best DM teaching material Wizards have ever put out. One final note: there was a lot of rebalancing done via Dungeons and Dragons Insider back in the day (none of which is reflected in the most recent PDFs available for sale, unfortunately), but for a home game the balance is good as it is.
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Apr 29, 2021 06:03
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To my understanding the later stuff doesn't really wreck the balance (and in fact I recommend using the later Expertise Feats), it's that a bunch of the later classes are just kinda mechanically dull. If anything they tend towards being weaker than previous classes, but not so much that they're an active liability as long as the player knows what they're getting into and actually enjoys how the class plays, though I'm sure people who have more experience with them than I do could point out outliers.
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Apr 29, 2021 06:47
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Taciturn Tactician posted:I've heard a lot about 4e and there seems to be a lot of people who say that some of the later stuff is bad and wrecks the balance. Is there a basic guide for what to avoid if I wanted to just read through classes to see what catches my interest? Just ignore all the Essentials classes (from all the Heroes of ___ books), but you're fine using the feats from those, as well as the Monster Vault.
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Apr 29, 2021 08:45
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Lemon-Lime posted:Just ignore all the Essentials classes (from all the Heroes of ___ books), but you're fine using the feats from those, as well as the Monster Vault.
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Apr 29, 2021 11:34
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Yeah, the issue isn't so much that the essentials classes are unbalanced as that they were written by someone who didn't understand (or did understand and was actively trying to undermine) the things that made 4E good.
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Apr 29, 2021 11:44
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I think the Essentials books were written in response to all the 3.x grogs whining about how 4e was "too video game-y" because the classes themselves are as much of a backpedal as you can get within the 4e framework. They very much read like a 3.x class ported into 4e as literally as possible. And from what I understand, though I haven't played any, 5e was a major backpedal towards 3.x, though stuff like the advantage mechanics are new.
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Apr 29, 2021 14:02
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Later 4e is essential (no pun intended) on the monster side and balance side. The Essentials classes are fine, imo. Feel free to mix and match them with standard 4e classes. It'll all work.
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Apr 29, 2021 14:10
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The heroes of shadow book is garbage, but the elemental chaos and feywild book has some legit good poo poo in it. As far as the baseline essentials classes, the essentials cleric, druid(I think?), and wizard are fine enough, in the sense that you make one decision that decides your progression from then onward. You still at least have full AEUDs, unlike the other classes.
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Apr 29, 2021 14:19
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Weirdly the monsters in Essentials are much better designed. My personal canon for "core" books is: Rules Compendium for basic rules reference Player's Handbook 1 and 2 for classes Monster Vault and Monster Manual 3 for monsters Optional: _____ Power books for more character options, Adventurer's Vault 1 & 2 for more item options. PHB 3 for psionic classes if you want them. Other notable books: Dungeon Master's Guide 2 has some very valuable information on building custom NPCs, companions and enemies. Campaign setting guides as needed, obviously. I like Changelings and Kalashtar and Warforged so I generally include the Eberron guide even if our games aren't canonically set there. Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium is openly revisionist garbage fit only for the bin.
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Apr 29, 2021 14:44
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Just be aware that with everything, some classes very clearly got exponentially more love than others. A player making a PHB1 class character with all supplements will have way way way more options than a player making a phb3 class character. It doesn't break the balance, the former aren't godlike and the latter can still contribute, it's just worth considering.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:05
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Namagem posted:Just be aware that with everything, some classes very clearly got exponentially more love than others. A player making a PHB1 class character with all supplements will have way way way more options than a player making a phb3 class character. It doesn't break the balance, the former aren't godlike and the latter can still contribute, it's just worth considering. Pour one out for the Runepriest.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:06
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Kurieg posted:Pour one out for the Runepriest. What could have been a neat new class with its own flavor ended up being basically a "weird cleric with less options" and that's a tragedy.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:03
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Really it's classes straight out of PHB1 that are insanely over the top, and a lot of later released material either doesn't quite measure up to the staggering damage output that a properly-tweaked Fighter or Ranger could be putting out round after round, or else gives other classes a better shot of keeping up with that standard. That said, the actual gulf between a "good" and "bad" character is much narrower than in other editions, and even in the case of one character badly over- or under- performing (or of one character really boosting the party's overall power past the point where fights are challenging) it's usually easy to identify the one feat or item or whatever that's responsible and just have a gentleman's agreement not to use it.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:46
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Ferrinus posted:That said, the actual gulf between a "good" and "bad" character is much narrower than in other editions Counterpoint: Binder. I do miss all the really weird poo poo that was in Dragon magazine and other Insider stuff. like the paladin encounter power that gave you sword beams so long as you worshipped one specific moon god and were using a greatsword.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:56
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The Binder is still rolling roughly 1d20 + (level appropriate number) to hit for (some dice) + (smaller level and role appropriate number) damage, still has basically on par defenses and HP, etc, and a ton of power comes out of feats and items and paragon paths. I wouldn't make one but someone who absolutely refused not to would not find themselves in the situation of, say, a 3.5e rogue in a party with level 11+ casters.
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Apr 29, 2021 20:06
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Whybird posted:Yeah, the issue isn't so much that the essentials classes are unbalanced as that they were written by someone who didn't understand (or did understand and was actively trying to undermine) the things that made 4E good. Likewise with the healing items in Mordenkainen's that don't use healing surges and as a result completely gently caress up the resource-management aspect of the game.
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Apr 30, 2021 02:52
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My Lovely Horse posted:Can anyone think of two magic items that have good synergy (or even a bonus) when two different characters wear them? Two of my players haven't come up with anything for their wishlist, so as long as I'm picking things for them I want to make it a bit special. They're both chainmail wearing, sword wielding Raven Queen followers, paladin and cleric, so the idea kinda suggests itself. Give them both a homebrew action, they can expend a healing surge for an immediate interrupt when the other one gets hit, they take the damage for the other guy, and get an MBA. If that's over-tuned for your game, then take the Life Thief Strike and make it an immediate interrupt, but instead of stealing HP they tank that damage from the other one.
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Apr 30, 2021 03:36
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Commander Keene posted:I think the Essentials books were written in response to all the 3.x grogs whining about how 4e was "too video game-y" because the classes themselves are as much of a backpedal as you can get within the 4e framework. They very much read like a 3.x class ported into 4e as literally as possible. Some of Essentials was good stuff. I maintain the Thief is an actual good class even if it's not pure 4e. And having classes designed for people who aren't so into tactics and just want to hit stuff or blast stuff without having to think too hard about tactics (Knight, Slayer, Scout, Elementalist) is a good thing because it lets more people play at the table. quote:And from what I understand, though I haven't played any, 5e was a major backpedal towards 3.x, though stuff like the advantage mechanics are new. There's actually as far as I can tell almost no 3.X in 5e at all except by way of 4e. What 5e has is similar design goals - which are to take the sheer mess that was 2e and put it onto a sane mechanical engine. The engine they used was the 4e one and there's a vast amount both of 4e fluff and of 4e mechanics buried in there. They just marketed against 4e and burned the warlord.
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Apr 30, 2021 03:43
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Boba Pearl posted:Give them both a homebrew action, they can expend a healing surge for an immediate interrupt when the other one gets hit, they take the damage for the other guy, and get an MBA. If that's over-tuned for your game, then take the Life Thief Strike and make it an immediate interrupt, but instead of stealing HP they tank that damage from the other one. "+1 to saving throws, except death saving throws." Your time comes when it comes. This is all for a game where they explore the HQ of a lost order of Bahamut's knights (Gardmore, in fact), and the other items on the wishlist include a poison dagger and a berserker axe. Maybe I'll make up an extra bit about a squad of irregular knights that (in-)famously had these items and were kind of on the fringe of the order.
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Apr 30, 2021 07:05
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neonchameleon posted:There's actually as far as I can tell almost no 3.X in 5e at all except by way of 4e. What 5e has is similar design goals - which are to take the sheer mess that was 2e and put it onto a sane mechanical engine. The engine they used was the 4e one and there's a vast amount both of 4e fluff and of 4e mechanics buried in there. They just marketed against 4e and burned the warlord. The major backpedal from 4e was getting rid of the AEDU system for powers and dropping the non-caster classes back to having no real options for anything. I'm playing in a 5e game with some friends as a melee dps character and literally the only thing I really choose from turn to turn is "Do I want to do 3 attacks or burn a resource point to use 4 attacks?". I have no other effective options. When a feature lets me push or slide somebody, it's almost always contested via saving throw, so it's not dependable and it feels lovely because it makes things impossible to plan. I can do some things like shoves and whatnot if I burn those resource points, but they're almost all contested by saving throws and that feels terrible. In 4e my fighter was a king of the battlefield, shoving people around and setting up combos with my allies. I could look at the initiative list and reliably help set things up and it felt good. Here, I can maybe shove one guy if he can't make a DC 12 strength saving throw. It sucks trying to plan around things like "Okay, I'm gonna try and hit those guys towards you to set up a burst, unless they can roll an 8 or higher, in which case I'm going to do nothing. And all that aside, when I level up my monk are pretty set in stone, which feels awful. If you and I both make Open Hand Monks, when we're level 8 we're gonna have almost exactly the same characters, because there's no choice involved in leveling up outside of your initial skill selection. There's less choice than 3.5, actually, because 3.5 had feats as a regular thing and 5e does not. Casters, of course, get huge lists of spells to choose from and all kinds of things to go along with that. After this game ends I may play another with the same people, because they're friends and the game itself is still fun outside of combat, but if I do this I'm definitely gonna sacrifice my principles and be a caster just so that I have things to do.
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Apr 30, 2021 09:05
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Yeah, that's largely what I meant, that 5e was right back to Caster Supremacy Edition after 4e managed to give almost every class meaningful options and a way to contribute.
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Apr 30, 2021 09:40
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Khizan posted:The major backpedal from 4e was getting rid of the AEDU system for powers and dropping the non-caster classes back to having no real options for anything. Oh, definitely. It was the 4e engine and 4e fluff they took (the only thing I can think of that's actually 3.X is giving the sorcerer metamagic and spells known). That said the Tasha's subclasses are vastly better than even Xanathar's, never mind the PHB for giving martial characters agency. quote:And all that aside, when I level up my monk are pretty set in stone, which feels awful. ... There's less choice than 3.5, actually, because 3.5 had feats as a regular thing and 5e does not. Definitely agreed; this is one of the few actual RP (as opposed to mechanical simplification) ways 3.0 improved significantly on AD&D. Of course both 3.0 and 4e are worse than literally any system with XP but no levels this way. And 5e has gone back to 2e's approach.
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Apr 30, 2021 09:43
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Commander Keene posted:Yeah, that's largely what I meant, that 5e was right back to Caster Supremacy Edition after 4e managed to give almost every class meaningful options and a way to contribute. An online pal of mine got better at least for that cliche. They had a swift curve of "Well if you think about it a fighter swinging four times as much as they want could kill a bunch of enemies as good if not better than the Meteor spell, because meteor doesn't get INT mod for damage" to "Okay hold up, every wizards can potentially cast infinity shield spell before fighters unlock 'can swing sword four times'? Also my Warlock GMPC's E blast is better than a Ranger or Fighter with a heavy crossbow and that seems a bit off." On it's own it is very good casters still have QoL to prevent "I spent all three of my early spell slots so I'm done for the day", all the problems is the narrative of "I can only do cool magic so many times a day! You can swing sword all day long as often as you like!" which was always bullshit still being used verbatim, even when sporting short rest refill mechanics (Wizards can refill some long rest slots once a day on a short, it isn't just a Warlock gimmick) and infinity casting options. Which is before how nearly every group I hear about secondhand seems to think "Action Surge only gives you +1 swing" has initial arguments of "+DEX for finesse melee damage? That doesn't sound right! No, no backseat GMing we'll get to the bottom of this later" or "It was so dramatic that one character died at the end of our campaign!... What? No I made them roll to stabilize the dying, that's how healers kits work!" Which you... Can't blame on 5th ed itself, because 5th ed was TRYING to keep QoL for non caster life in it's rules on that front 
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Apr 30, 2021 15:39
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I'll never forget the poll they put out early in 5e's "development" that mentioned cantrips and, seeing its results, Mearls was like "Wow! Surprisingly, the player base does want spellcasters to be able to cast certain spells at-will! We'll definitely put that in! Truly, this game will have the best of all editions."
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Apr 30, 2021 16:26
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Part of the problem is that if the casters don't have anything to do then the adventuring day just.. stops, so you can rest and allow the casters to do things again. Unless the DM forces things to continue long past that point so the martials have a chance to 'shine' by basic attacking until the heat death of the universe.
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Apr 30, 2021 17:16
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Damage Per Day
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Apr 30, 2021 17:26
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My group is, well it feels like their hyper optimized, but in reality it's just that 3 controllers is a lot. So I've had a real problem with creating difficult encounters (Not that i feel every encounter should be super difficult mind you,) and was wondering what are some cool abilities to throw on monsters that pushes back against being constantly prone, dazed, rattled, etc. I so far have tried a monster that grants saving throws even against conditions that don't end via saving throw, Dangerous Terrain that applies Daze to the players, and heals all status effects on a monster, and very rarely a monster who gets a "no gently caress that" check as an encounter power. What are ways to handle control heavy groups that doesn't invalidate their build, and allows them to have fun, but still lets the monsters do stuff?
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Apr 30, 2021 19:24
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It's been a few years since I played 4e, but some things that come immediately to mind:
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Apr 30, 2021 19:35
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Also if you have any psions put their character sheets through the shredder.
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Apr 30, 2021 19:39
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