Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Hammerite posted:

For each migration script I have done several test runs to refine and re-refine the parameters*, so yes.

* Perforce paths to exclude, and (for some) the range of changeset ID numbers

# ? Apr 27, 2021 17:56

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 03:00

LOOK I AM A TURTLE: May 22, 2003; "I'm actually a tortoise."; Grimey Drawer

Xarn posted:

rip

Hey, Azure DevOps is mostly good.

Unless you're saying "rip because it will be deprecated and replaced by GitHub", in which case, yeah.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 08:28

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Kinda both. I've been using ADO at MS for the last three months, compared to GitHub/GitLab (what I used previously), it has weird limitations and lovely web frontend.

e.g. why the gently caress is there like a 4k characters limit on PR description? Why is my browser slowly dying when there are ~15 open comments on a PR? I've also had to deal with the "comment targetting" (which lines of code it shows as context for PR comment) getting broken until I refreshed... that was an interesting conversation :v:

# ? Apr 28, 2021 10:16

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Xarn posted:

Kinda both. I've been using ADO at MS for the last three months, compared to GitHub/GitLab (what I used previously), it has weird limitations and lovely web frontend.

e.g. why the gently caress is there like a 4k characters limit on PR description? Why is my browser slowly dying when there are ~15 open comments on a PR? I've also had to deal with the "comment targetting" (which lines of code it shows as context for PR comment) getting broken until I refreshed... that was an interesting conversation

Well that sounds useless, how am I supposed to submit a pr without the complete text of finnegans wake

# ? Apr 28, 2021 11:36

Nova69: Jul 12, 2012

Soricidus posted:

Well that sounds useless, how am I supposed to submit a pr without the complete text of finnegans wake

quote:

Fixes #435

CHANGELOG
- Update timezone database
- Fix problem with DST changeover
- For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are perishing�you who dread knowledge�I am the man who will now tell you.� The chief engineer was the only one able to move; he ran to a television set and struggled frantically with its dials. But the screen remained empty; the speaker had not chosen to be seen. Only his voice filled the airways of the country�of the world, thought the chief engineer�sounding as if he were speaking here, in this room, not to a group, but to one man; it was not the tone of addressing a meeting, but the tone of addressing a mind.
You have heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis. You have said it yourself, half in fear, half in hope that the words had no meaning. You have cried that man�s sins are destroying the world and you have cursed human nature for its unwillingness to practice the virtues you demanded. Since virtue, to you, consists of sacrifice, you have demanded more sacrifices at every successive disaster. In the name of a return to morality, you have sacrificed all those evils which you held as the cause of your plight. You have sacrificed justice to mercy. You have sacrificed independence to unity. You have sacrificed reason to faith. You have sacrificed wealth to need. You have sacrificed self-esteem to self-denial. You have sacrificed happiness to duty.
You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good. Why, then, do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you? That world is not the product of your sins, it is the product and the image of your virtues. It is your moral ideal brought into reality in its full and final perfection. You have fought for it, you have dreamed of it, and you have wished it, and I�I am the man who....

# ? Apr 28, 2021 11:44

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Soricidus posted:

Well that sounds useless, how am I supposed to submit a pr without the complete text of finnegans wake

Right, I forgot that all PR descriptions are supposed to be "fixed some poo poo, maybe it works now".

# ? Apr 28, 2021 12:23

dwazegek: Feb 11, 2005; WE CAN USE THIS

Why not just link the relevant work items to the pr, instead of writing a novel in the description. :confused:

# ? Apr 28, 2021 12:29

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

"This PR adds a visualization script for X.

<insert image of what the visualization looks like>

This PR needs followups:

* X to handle cases when Ys overlap with Zs
* Q to handle when we are missing data on P
* F because G said they might need it in the future
* B to allow using this from D environment
* Also there is talk about removing library L from secured machines, we might need to migrate to K"

and you will hit the limit easily. For bonus points, the attached image url counts too (not surprisingly), and changes between draft PR and submitted PR, so if you are just under the limit, you will be significantly over the limit after submitting the PR and won't be able to edit the description without significant rewrite.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 12:44

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

I've worked in Azure DevOps things while moonlighting for other teams and I don't really see the length limit as a problem. I seldom hit it - maybe once or twice so far - and if I do, I summarise and direct the reader to the work item (identified explicitly by number).

The given example of "needs followups" in particular - I guess there's nothing wrong with that being in a commit description but it shouldn't be only there; it belongs in other communications too. Those followup actions are all things that would be in your backlog/project plan/team's collective brains/whatever.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:00

Bruegels Fuckbooks: Sep 14, 2004; Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Xarn posted:

"This PR adds a visualization script for X.

<insert image of what the visualization looks like>

This PR needs followups:

* X to handle cases when Ys overlap with Zs
* Q to handle when we are missing data on P
* F because G said they might need it in the future
* B to allow using this from D environment
* Also there is talk about removing library L from secured machines, we might need to migrate to K"

and you will hit the limit easily. For bonus points, the attached image url counts too (not surprisingly), and changes between draft PR and submitted PR, so if you are just under the limit, you will be significantly over the limit after submitting the PR and won't be able to edit the description without significant rewrite.

so there's this language feature present in most programming languages you might not be familiar with, it's called a comment..

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:00

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

You aren�t ever going to convince a user that the weird way they are using a tool isn�t the best and only way to use it.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:13

xtal: Jan 9, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Why would you use a decentralized VCS and then store your discussion history on the part of it that isn't backed up or distributed?

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:15

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Hammerite posted:

I've worked in Azure DevOps things while moonlighting for other teams and I don't really see the length limit as a problem. I seldom hit it - maybe once or twice so far - and if I do, I summarise and direct the reader to the work item (identified explicitly by number).

Right, but if you outline them, then someone who is reviewing the PR has to suddenly click through and read n different pages, rather than reading the description proper. It is not terrible solution, but it is worse solution than, say, having whatever limit GH has (I've never hit, nor heard of anyone hitting it. In comparison, I know several people at my team have ran into the limit with ADO).

quote:

The given example of "needs followups" in particular - I guess there's nothing wrong with that being in a commit description but it shouldn't be only there; it belongs in other communications too. Those followup actions are all things that would be in your backlog/project plan/team's collective brains/whatever.

They should be in PR description so that your reviewers don't open review comments about them. If your reviewers can't tell that there are pieces missing, get better reviewers :v:

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:16

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Xarn posted:

Kinda both. I've been using ADO at MS for the last three months, compared to GitHub/GitLab (what I used previously), it has weird limitations and lovely web frontend.

e.g. why the gently caress is there like a 4k characters limit on PR description? Why is my browser slowly dying when there are ~15 open comments on a PR? I've also had to deal with the "comment targetting" (which lines of code it shows as context for PR comment) getting broken until I refreshed... that was an interesting conversation

Seems industry standard for trivial things like 15 comments to murder your browser. Jira murders the browser with almost nothing going on.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:58

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

LOOK I AM A TURTLE posted:

Unless you're saying "rip because it will be deprecated and replaced by GitHub", in which case, yeah.

Xarn posted:

e.g. why the gently caress is there like a 4k characters limit on PR description?

Probably backed by a varchar(max) column.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 16:01

abraham linksys: Sep 6, 2010

i write huge PR descriptions because when people `git blame` their way through figuring out what the gently caress happened via GitHub, they tend to look more to PRs than JIRA tickets, because GitHub PRs take about a second to load while JIRA takes like seven

also for code reviews! no one loving clicks the JIRA ticket when doing a code review. all of our PMs suck and write terrible AC anyways so even if you did you probably wouldn't be able to understand what the gently caress is happening

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:16

xtal: Jan 9, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

abraham linksys posted:

i write huge PR descriptions because when people `git blame` their way through figuring out what the gently caress happened via GitHub, they tend to look more to PRs than JIRA tickets, because GitHub PRs take about a second to load while JIRA takes like seven

also for code reviews! no one loving clicks the JIRA ticket when doing a code review. all of our PMs suck and write terrible AC anyways so even if you did you probably wouldn't be able to understand what the gently caress is happening

I think the point is that you just put it in the commit messages, so it shows up directly in git blame...

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:20

abraham linksys: Sep 6, 2010

we do squash-merges so every individual commit on main has an associated PR anyways

if github could automatically pull the PR description into the commit message that'd be nice, but the way git/github handle commit messages is stupid as gently caress anyways, so that ship has sailed

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:25

necrotic: Aug 2, 2005; I owe my brother big time for this!

abraham linksys posted:

if github could automatically pull the PR description into the commit message that'd be nice, but the way git/github handle commit messages is stupid as gently caress anyways, so that ship has sailed

It can for squash merges, I think? It's a fairly recent setting.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:41

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

abraham linksys posted:

we do squash-merges so every individual commit on main has an associated PR anyways

if github could automatically pull the PR description into the commit message that'd be nice, but the way git/github handle commit messages is stupid as gently caress anyways, so that ship has sailed

MS is the first place where I was on team that uses squash merges, and I am not a fan tbh. Turns out that you can't just fix bad commit discipline by squash merging, because while you might end up with okay commit messages, your commits are now HUMONGOUS.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:42

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Xarn posted:

MS is the first place where I was on team that uses squash merges, and I am not a fan tbh. Turns out that you can't just fix bad commit discipline by squash merging, because while you might end up with okay commit messages, your commits are now HUMONGOUS.

Oh, no... Do I have this? :ohdear:

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:43

abraham linksys: Sep 6, 2010

necrotic posted:

It can for squash merges, I think? It's a fairly recent setting.

AFAIK unless there's a buried setting, squash merges just have a default commit message of "the commit message from every commit in the branch." Which makes sense because GitHub doesn't render commit messages as markdown, so just pulling a PR description into a git message would make it harder to read (not to mention not include hyperlinks or images...).

There's a world where GitHub just renders commit messages as Markdown, shows you commit message details in the PR more visibly, and people make tooling for Git that can render Markdown, and then I never write a long PR description again (outside of maybe reviewer notes & remaining TODOs) and all of that history lives inside Git instead of GitHub as it should. Unfortunately that's not the world we live in

Xarn posted:

MS is the first place where I was on team that uses squash merges, and I am not a fan tbh. Turns out that you can't just fix bad commit discipline by squash merging, because while you might end up with okay commit messages, your commits are now HUMONGOUS.

It's weird, I started up a new repo for a new project and while I've encouraged the engineers I've been working with to use squash-merges for messy branches, I've been debating whether to disable regular merges entirely like we do on our other repos. I personally like to rebase and fixup and all that poo poo (one of my coworkers has a really good workflow for this I need to figure out; something about using "git am" as like a cherry-pick on steroids?) and make a bunch of individual clean commits, but I'd much prefer squash commits for 80% of the feature branches I've seen.

It does make the commits loving huge, especially on the frontend projects I work on where there's a lot of refactor churn and a lot of large feature branches due to the difficulty of doing feature-flagged releases for large-scale changes. That said, the flipside of this is that when something inevitably breaks in a massive merged change, it's very easy to do a git revert against the one squashed commit :v:

abraham linksys fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 28, 2021

# ? Apr 28, 2021 17:50

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

I just never need to see another commit with the commit message �addressed PR comments�.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 18:00

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

git commit --fixup hash
git rebase -i --autosquash master

99% of the reasons I'd use squash merge just disappeared, the last 1% is that one coworker terminally unable to write commit message to save his life, where you just write non poo poo commit message for him on merge :v:

# ? Apr 28, 2021 20:51

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

I enforce good commit messages with proper grammar and spelling. We have a corporate grammarly account for everybody, USE IT. Commit messages better drat well tell me the what and why�s of what changed. :colbert:

# ? Apr 29, 2021 16:10

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

More and more I realize that fossil had the right idea with bundling everything into the repo: commits, yes, but also bug tracking, wiki, even forums.

# ? Apr 29, 2021 16:34

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

pokeyman posted:

More and more I realize that fossil had the right idea with bundling everything into the repo: commits, yes, but also bug tracking, wiki, even forums.

All of its stuff functions adequately enough while maintaining the ability to customize while being a giant pain to customize.

It's real good I wish it won the dvcs wars.

# ? Apr 29, 2021 20:00

Obfuscation: Jan 1, 2008; Good luck to you, I know you believe in hell

I've always thought that git commit messages should be like mini-branches in themselves, so you could push changes to old commit messages if a need arises

There's no way that this could cause any kind of complications, imo

Munkeymon posted:

Probably backed by a varchar(max) column.

Varchar(MAX) is several gigabytes in mssql, I know this because of... reasons

# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:13

Nth Doctor: Sep 7, 2010; Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!

Obfuscation posted:

Varchar(MAX) is several gigabytes in mssql, I know this because of... reasons

Several being two in this case.

# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:20

more falafel please: Feb 26, 2005; forums poster

Obfuscation posted:

I've always thought that git commit messages should be like mini-branches in themselves, so you could push changes to old commit messages if a need arises

There's no way that this could cause any kind of complications, imo

Varchar(MAX) is several gigabytes in mssql, I know this because of... reasons

Perforce lets you edit changelist descriptions after they're committed. It's abusable I guess, but the only things I've ever seen it used for are: fixing typos/mistakes in the description, or having CI/build system add tags/build info.

# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:54

Selklubber: Jul 11, 2010

The best commits are the ones from friday at 5, that just say "fixed a bug, im going home!"

# ? May 1, 2021 13:01

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

https://twitter.com/mycoliza/status/1388287273012060162

https://twitter.com/mycoliza/status/1388289412002242563

# ? May 1, 2021 17:49

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Selklubber posted:

The best commits are the ones from friday at 5, that just say "fixed a bug, im going home!"

Wrong, the best messages are the ones that say "ok now it works" because half the time that's not even totally true.

# ? May 2, 2021 03:57

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Volmarias posted:

Wrong, the best messages are the ones that say "ok now it works" because half the time that's not even totally true.

"now it works(on my machine(because of changes I didn't submit(and also I didn't fully rebuild so it didn't catch a compile-time error)))"

# ? May 2, 2021 04:04

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Absurd Alhazred posted:

"now it works(on my machine(because of changes I didn't submit(and also I didn't fully rebuild so it didn't catch a compile-time error)))"

The couple times a year when I do that last one, I immediately spend an hour making the build faster in penance.

# ? May 2, 2021 05:09

csammis: Aug 26, 2003; Mental Institution

pokeyman posted:

The couple times a year when I do that last one, I immediately spend an hour making the build faster in penance.

What�s faster than not running the build? :confused:

# ? May 2, 2021 16:21

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

csammis posted:

What’s faster than not running the build?

The angry horde of coworkers who just realized the build is broken.

# ? May 2, 2021 23:08

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Absurd Alhazred posted:

"now it works(on my machine(because of changes I didn't submit(and also I didn't fully rebuild so it didn't catch a compile-time error)))"

Good thing you use CI and the commit never made it anywhere important.

# ? May 3, 2021 07:31

LOOK I AM A TURTLE: May 22, 2003; "I'm actually a tortoise."; Grimey Drawer

ultrafilter posted:

https://twitter.com/mycoliza/status/1388287273012060162

https://twitter.com/mycoliza/status/1388289412002242563

Functioning link: https://engineering.virginia.edu/news/2021/04/defenseless-uva-engineering-computer-scientists-discover-vulnerability-affecting
Paper: https://www.cs.virginia.edu/venkat/papers/isca2021a.pdf

# ? May 3, 2021 08:06

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 03:00

xtal: Jan 9, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

It seems plainly intuitive that you can't have speculative execution that's worth anything without also leaking data on side channels

# ? May 3, 2021 13:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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