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FBS posted:When I moved up north I was close to my parents again. My dad has made casual mention once or twice of possibly getting a motorcycle, since I have one and I'm here and he could ride with me. This is interesting, because I'd say to become a truly accomplished rider is about as difficult as becoming a decent pilot (I think sagebrush? might have some input), there is a similar level of specialized knowledge and learned context, but bikes and riding gear don't cost fuckyou money. Imagine if a cessna cost ~2500 and you could get your license after a brief test, the countryside would be dotted with giant lawn darts. I wish my parents didn't decide to move to another country so my dad is now too old to start learning to ride, I feel like I really missed out by not being able to get him into it. I have a son now and the idea of not riding because of him is inconceivable; it just isn't that dangerous to me, and I'm desperate to get him into it from an early age so he can ride with me.
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May 1, 2021 05:26
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It's an odd situation and I'm still thinking through it myself. Perhaps a better analogy would be me approaching my dad and saying "I want to get an ultralight license and buy an ultralight, so I can fly in formation with you in your J-3 Cub." He knows I don't have the same level of enthusiasm for aviation that he has, and it sounds like I'm only interested because he's already flying. Ultralights have big fat ugly risks, and it sounds like I'm only motivated to get up in the air because my dad's already doing it - regardless of the cost/benefit stuff. Beyond the pure logic I think I justify the risk of my riding by thinking about how my dad could get killed just as quickly in a small plane. If either one of us gets smooshed while participating in our respective hobbies, that's fine - that's what we signed up for and we died doing what we really enjoyed. The math isn't the same if the survivor feels like they were dragging the victim along into an activity they wouldn't otherwise have participated in.
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May 1, 2021 06:47
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I've heard/read that microlights and such are basically just lofty death. But how dangerous are small aircraft? I get the feeling 'little' incidents happen a lot less than bikes, but when something goes properly wrong you pretty much die. Bikes have a really smooth ramp of speed vs danger, I feel like if I'm on a 125 I can't possibly ever hurt myself because it isn't fast enough and it's always possible to dodge the lunatics when you're on a tiny bike.
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May 1, 2021 06:50
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I definitely don't have any concrete aviation vs. motorcycle statistics, I've only read enough to convince myself that they're roughly in the same ballpark - again, for entirely self-serving reasons, to justify my own behavior. Much like motorcycle stats you can play a lot of "what if" with the numbers - cutting out alcohol-related bike wrecks, or doing full face vs. helmetless numbers. Lots and lots of pilots die because they're stupid arrogant ignorant CFIT assholes. But whether you're flying an airplane or riding a motorcycle on public roads there is still a pretty solid loving chance that you'll get killed due to factors you couldn't control for when you got started that day.
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May 1, 2021 06:56
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Slavvy posted:I've heard/read that microlights and such are basically just lofty death. But how dangerous are small aircraft? I get the feeling 'little' incidents happen a lot less than bikes, but when something goes properly wrong you pretty much die. Bikes have a really smooth ramp of speed vs danger, I feel like if I'm on a 125 I can't possibly ever hurt myself because it isn't fast enough and it's always possible to dodge the lunatics when you're on a tiny bike. I thought the saying was small bikes hurt big men
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May 1, 2021 07:41
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MomJeans420 posted:I thought the saying was small bikes hurt big men It's true but only really for children's dirt bikes cause they're all so lightly sprung so they tend to pitch and oscillate alarmingly while also having a terrifyingly short wheelbase. You also tend to think of them as a toy that you can safely combine with alcohol. Small street bikes usually just feel super slow and easy.
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May 1, 2021 07:48
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That makes sense because I've been trying to convince my wife that my not yet one year old daughter needs a TT-R50 when she's five, but it's the kind of bike my buddies and I would absolutely go try to dumb things on after a few beers on Saturday night. I don't know if I'd even be able to operate the controls on one while sitting on it, but I do feel like learning bikes at an early age would be like cheat mode for getting good.
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May 1, 2021 08:20
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Strife posted:Depends on what you’re driving. Holy 
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May 1, 2021 12:30
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I seem to have developed carpal tunnel syndrome. I've been getting a numb hand the last few times riding the dirt bike, I assume from vibration, and using powertools/ hammer and chisel on the workshop. Pretty irritating, I don't even touch computers.
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May 1, 2021 14:13
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After not mentioning it ever, when I showed up at my parents' place with my first biek, my dad casually drops that when he was living in Kenya, he and a buddy went halfsies on a featherbed Norton and used to race it on weekends.
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May 1, 2021 21:58
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I wish there was a low displacement version of the Thruxton. That's it. That's my rant.
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May 2, 2021 02:28
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That reminds me of a craigslist ad I saw yesterday. 
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May 2, 2021 02:37
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When I broke my leg in 2019 a bunch of people asked if I’d ever ride again, and asked my wife how she’d ever let me get back on a motorcycle. I crashed on the highway and my only injury was a tib/fib fracture. About a month later my primary care doctor slipped on his deck trying to move his grill and got the same injury. Nobody asked him if he’d never walk on his deck again. Are motorcycles dangerous? When you eliminate all the stupid poo poo idiots do, it’s not really any more dangerous than anything else.
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May 2, 2021 04:17
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I suspect if it were possible to remove no gear idiots and no skill idiots from the stats, they'd look safer than cars. People who know what they're doing crash very rarely in my totally anecdotal experience even if they speed everywhere, people who suck crash constantly even if they always ride really slow.
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May 2, 2021 04:34
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The stats look like they've been intentionally obfuscated in my state, but as far as I can tell just under half of motorcycle fatalities involve the rider being some combination of intoxicated / unlicensed, and (separately, so overlapping that) about a quarter involve someone going to ludicrous speed on a 50-80km/h suburban street.
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May 2, 2021 05:38
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Slavvy posted:I suspect if it were possible to remove no gear idiots and no skill idiots from the stats, they'd look safer than cars. People who know what they're doing crash very rarely in my totally anecdotal experience even if they speed everywhere, people who suck crash constantly even if they always ride really slow. There'd probably be a lot fewer crashes at least, but perhaps on average still more lethal than car crashes. And yeah even advanced class instructors (often motorcycle police officers) here are like "you're on a bike, we know you're going to speed, but do it where it's safe for you and especially for others".
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May 2, 2021 10:02
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When I worked in a bicycle shop I occasionally would have this conversation with customers about how dangerous riding a bicycle is in Arizona statistics wise. When I point out that we have year round riding, that we are a destination for cycling vacations and that our average rider age is... ancient, of course we will have higher absolute numbers than Montana.
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May 2, 2021 18:20
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Yuns posted:I'm completely fine with the mortality risk of riding for me. I've ridden road bikes for 32 years. But my wife doesn't ride and I no longer ever ride with my wife as a passenger. I don't want to leave my kids orphans if anything happens to me on the bike. This is exactly where I am now. My wife and I didn’t ride together often, but we had fun when we did. Now I won’t even entertain it as an option. She hasn’t asked, but I’m pretty sure she’d say the same thing if she thought about it for a minute.
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May 3, 2021 16:14
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Not being a dick, this has come as somewhat of a surprise to me: why do you guys keep riding if you think it's so lethal you have to triage your family and poo poo? If I thought it was that absurdly dangerous I'd never do it at all, children irrespective.
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May 3, 2021 17:54
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It may be that it is significantly more dangerous in America, than it is in NZ/UK. I don't feel like it's particularly dangerous here in the UK.
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May 3, 2021 18:07
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Slavvy posted:Not being a dick, this has come as somewhat of a surprise to me: why do you guys keep riding if you think it's so lethal you have to triage your family and poo poo? If I thought it was that absurdly dangerous I'd never do it at all, children irrespective. Die young. Die with a pretty corpse. or something like that. Riding for me is no more dangerous than going for a piss at 2am or descending a flight of stairs uncaffeinated fresh out of bed. I met my husband largely because of riding. I will not stop riding, even long after my body has crumbled into nothing. He can choose to stop riding. I will not. My family has zero say in what I do with my life. They barely get a view through the looking glass. There was no discussion with them when I got a bike 10 years ago. I'm unsure if they approve or not, I don't care about their opinions. I'm named after a family member that was killed on a moto by a drunk. I don't share the stigma.
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May 3, 2021 18:12
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cursedshitbox posted:Die young. Die with a pretty corpse. Yeah this is how I see it. It's kind of weird seeing 'stupid relatives thinking it's insanely dangerous, you can't tell me what to do  ' followed straight be a strategic contingency plan about who lives or dies because I've internalized it being insanely dangerous.E: how do you have fun if you're making GBS threads yourself the whole time? Don't answer that Slavvy fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 3, 2021 |
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May 3, 2021 18:14
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My standard response to people telling me bikes are dangerous is "you're right, I should go sit on the sofa until I die." People who are obese/drink excessively/smoke/have sedentary lifestyles etc seem to be the most prone to these outbursts of fraternal concern for my wellbeing. I don't have a problem with that, but if I die young at least I'll be having fun and look good doing it
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May 3, 2021 18:46
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Slavvy posted:a strategic contingency plan about who lives or dies People are weird about family stuff that way, especially when kids are involved. I've offered to take some friends who have kids flying and the first thing they say is "well, only one parent should go at a time." Like if I thought there was an unacceptable risk of dying in a plane crash I wouldn't triage it like you say, I would simply not get on the plane at all. "Oh well I certainly wouldn't want to orphan my kids! But losing just one parent wouldn't be so bad" idk Shelvocke posted:My standard response to people telling me bikes are dangerous is "you're right, I should go sit on the sofa until I die." Pretty much. I'm gonna keep riding motorcycles and flying airplanes while I'm young and sharp, and accept that they are more risky activities than sitting on the couch and only traveling outside in an SUV with 20 airbags. I'd rather do it this way than deny myself the things I want to do and ensure that I get old and creaky and full of regrets. It seems like half the people who didn't get motorcycles as a kid end up getting them when they retire anyway and then immediately crash because their reflexes and eyesight are shot and they have no pre-existing skills. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:39 on May 3, 2021 |
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May 3, 2021 19:33
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I woke up in the trauma unit post-surgery with no memory of how I got there. I guess someone creamed me from behind, fully rear-ended at 40 mph per the police report. Whatever. Helmet, armor jacket, armor gloves, hiking boots and jeans. Life flight helicopter. Department of interventional radiology. Full recovery minus ~half a spleen. No impact sports for 90 days. I didn’t do a drat thing wrong so I’ll be dammed if I’m going to learn something from it. Only lesson is wear your armor and I already was. Shopping for another bike once this insane used market coughs up the right deal.
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May 3, 2021 19:42
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Sagebrush I would put my toddler in your light aircraft without hesitation, assuming it's fixed wing and hasn't got a car/bike engine. Putting him in the back of my mother in law's 20 airbag suv makes me nervous and sweaty because she can't drive for poo poo, nobody else can either and he's trapped in the back of a barely-mobile nazi bunker without a competent person at the wheel or me there to pull him from the wreck. I think people look at how risky something is, perhaps statistically or socially, and either ignore their own agency entirely or work with the underlying assumption that they lack the means or ability to prevent disaster aka are a passenger on their own bike. Which yeah, if death and injury are inevitable and you have no control, riding bikes is loving insane, stop doing it.
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May 3, 2021 19:50
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Slavvy posted:I suspect if it were possible to remove no gear idiots and no skill idiots from the stats, they'd look safer than cars. People who know what they're doing crash very rarely in my totally anecdotal experience even if they speed everywhere, people who suck crash constantly even if they always ride really slow.
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May 3, 2021 20:24
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Shelvocke posted:My standard response to people telling me bikes are dangerous is "you're right, I should go sit on the sofa until I die." Yea I love it when randos walk up (or wheel up) to me while I'm eating a meal or working out of a cafe in a 1pc suit to tell me how they or a friend got all hosed up from riding and that they hope I don't have the same fate or that I should quit while I'm still ahead. Then I get to tell em about how I spun a bearing in 2016 while taking a loving piss, tearing my left knee up and denting a waterheater next to the toilet with my head. (its a genetic plumbing problem, its fine) I will die on my loving feet doing what I enjoy, nothing will stop that. (more likely laid over on my side because the variable pressure hydraulics controller poo poo itself again) You live once. gently caress sitting on the sofa full of fear waiting for death to come.
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May 3, 2021 20:59
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cursedshitbox posted:Yea I love it when randos walk up (or wheel up) to me while I'm eating a meal or working out of a cafe in a 1pc suit to tell me how they or a friend got all hosed up from riding and that they hope I don't have the same fate or that I should quit while I'm still ahead. 
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May 3, 2021 21:03
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Slavvy posted:Not being a dick, this has come as somewhat of a surprise to me: why do you guys keep riding if you think it's so lethal you have to triage your family and poo poo? If I thought it was that absurdly dangerous I'd never do it at all, children irrespective. I've never understood this position. I'm not going to stop riding motorcycles when I have children for the same reason I didn't stop riding motorcycles when I got married. I don't think it's especially dangerous. I've nearly died considerably more times from committing the moral sin of being born with an incurable illness, so I'm more likely to suddenly start bleeding internally and die for no loving reason than I am to die in a motorcycle accident. At least a motorcycle accident is preventable.
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May 3, 2021 21:08
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All of this ignores the fact that riding a motorcycle is more dangerous than sitting in a car. I think the question then is are you riding because you have to get from A to B or for some other reason. Everyone I've met who complains about how dangerous riding is thinks the answer is purely A to B.
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May 3, 2021 22:06
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Bikes are legit the best thing that’s happened to my life since my daughter was born. Wish I got one when I first started thinking about it, and not 2 years later when I had 2 months of hurry-up-and-waiting and was looking for something to do. Life insurance is there for when skill, gear and luck all fail. Shelvocke posted:People who are obese/drink excessively/smoke/have sedentary lifestyles I do all 4 of these AND ride motorcycles, checkmate!
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May 3, 2021 22:17
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Those are the same people who see any form of driving as a chore. The idea that you can derive any joy out of controlling a vehicle is alien. In this light, a tank is the obvious choice, except they also have to get there fast because it’s getting in the way of the thing they need to do at the other end and actual tanks are slow. Trucks/SUVs are the best they can get.
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May 3, 2021 22:18
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Y'all remember my near-miss with the red light runner last year? I doubt it would have killed me, but that's a life-altering accident that I only avoided by raw luck. The only way I could totally prevent that from ever happening is to stop riding altogether. I've weighed my personal risks and benefits and made my decision so I continue to ride my motorcycle on public roads. If my life circumstances change (i.e. having kids) I would reconsider that calculation and possibly change my behavior as a result. It's ultimately a totally personal decision, that every person has to make for themselves, and everybody perceives the risks and benefits differently. That's OK! But I take that decision seriously and when people I love dearly express an interest in joining me I want to encourage them to take it seriously as well.
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May 3, 2021 22:18
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builds character posted:All of this ignores the fact that riding a motorcycle is more dangerous than sitting in a car. I'm not ignoring it, speaking for myself. I don't think this is true for me in particular and presumably lots of other people. I have much, much more control of my fate when I'm on a bike than in a car, the only way a car is safer is in sheer impact resistance. I take the view that avoiding impacts is the safest strategy and I'd rather have a small, agile thing with perfect visibility than a bunker anyone else can ram with their own bunker.
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May 3, 2021 22:32
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Slavvy posted:I'm not ignoring it, speaking for myself. I don't think this is true for me in particular and presumably lots of other people. I have much, much more control of my fate when I'm on a bike than in a car, the only way a car is safer is in sheer impact resistance. I take the view that avoiding impacts is the safest strategy and I'd rather have a small, agile thing with perfect visibility than a bunker anyone else can ram with their own bunker. Pay your money make your choice. I'm all for riding, but I think that the implication what you've said is wrong. Maybe that's the only way a car is safer (although I think you can stop faster and are less subject to falling because of road hazards like gravel too just by way of two examples), but it's a really big way and its bigness outweighs any other factors. And to everyone's credit here I think folks acknowledge that riding a bike has certain inherent risks that aren't present when riding in a car. You can mitigate them by doing things like wearing gear or riding safely but it's just safer, overall, I think, to be sitting in a car. That's not at all the same as saying riding is too dangerous to do, just that you need to do the stuff to reduce risk like wearing gear, knowing that nobody is going to see you, knowing that you may need to use your mobility to get out of the way, even like going and practicing panic braking when you're learning. All of which reduce the risk, but don't entirely get rid of it. And I certainly agree on the idea that folks who aren't riding and are giving you poo poo about it are generally not making the same risk analysis - at best they're thinking about Jimmy who rides twice a year coming home from the bar hammered with no helmet and at worst they're not thinking at all.
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May 3, 2021 22:52
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I dunno dude to me it seems that cars are 'safe' after you've already crashed, but bikes are much harder to crash in the first place. Again, speaking only for myself, I feel I can avoid crashes much better on a bike than in a car regardless of the individual qualities of either vehicle. Yeah I wear riding gear and a helmet etc, but I equate that to wearing a seatbelt ie you're using the system competently. If we extend that competence to actually operating the vehicle I think bikes are safer.
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May 3, 2021 23:16
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Slavvy posted:I dunno dude to me it seems that cars are 'safe' after you've already crashed, but bikes are much harder to crash in the first place. Again, speaking only for myself, I feel I can avoid crashes much better on a bike than in a car regardless of the individual qualities of either vehicle. Yeah I wear riding gear and a helmet etc, but I equate that to wearing a seatbelt ie you're using the system competently. If we extend that competence to actually operating the vehicle I think bikes are safer. I disagree but otherwise I got nothing. You should ride either way.
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May 4, 2021 01:13
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It's harder to buy a car with enough power to accelerate out of danger, whereas you can get that on a sub-$5k motorcycle. Plus, there is all the ABS and traction control to save you. So really motorcycles are more economical and safe than cars, if you think about it.
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May 4, 2021 01:14
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I'm not scared of riding or else I wouldn't have kept street riding in LA, DC, NYC etc. for 32 or so years. I can control my own riding although I can't control those around me. But the decision to not ride with my wife is not purely about the probability of risk but the consequences. I don't back country snowboard with my wife either. I would engage is activities with my spouse where the risk of injury or death is independent. For example, sky diving if we were to join our friends who were really into that. But not where the risk is inherently linked like backcountry avy risk in snowboarding/skiing. PUT it this way; I ride and have ridden with my kids as passengers but don't do so with my wife because the sanguinary calculus of the loss of 2 parents even if unlikely is more serious than the loss of a dad and a child. Thinking it through a bit more. I would have no issue with my wife riding herself if she were at all interested because again I've decoupled the consequences of an event. Yuns fucked around with this message at 02:08 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 01:52
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