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S.J. posted:They explicitly didn't end the game's story but okay That's good. Like I said, I really don't know what the current fluff is since the vast majority of it's unavailable, so making a guess from what they've said about the Infernals, and also not really knowing where they can go from "literal apocalypse magic hell invasion", it seemed to me like they might have sort of hit a wall. I'm interested to see where it goes form here, assuming they continue to write fluff.
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Apr 26, 2021 00:50
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FrostyPox posted:That's good. Like I said, I really don't know what the current fluff is since the vast majority of it's unavailable, so making a guess from what they've said about the Infernals, and also not really knowing where they can go from "literal apocalypse magic hell invasion", it seemed to me like they might have sort of hit a wall. I'm interested to see where it goes form here, assuming they continue to write fluff. This'll get you caught up in what's happening https://home.privateerpress.com/?s=Hengehold just be prepared that it pretty much stops dead in its tracks when Covid hits.
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Apr 26, 2021 04:34
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rantmo posted:Broadly it says that there's a tense peace, Lael is free, Ord exists, Cygnar and Khador have seen better days but are rebuilding and Tristan Durant led what Protectorate civilians didn't go through the gate at Henge Hold to Zu. Wait the Protectorate just packed up and left?
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Apr 26, 2021 05:15
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Is there a TLDR version of this stuff that just hits the major events without pages of dialog?
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Apr 26, 2021 05:26
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Best I found when I went looking, https://warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Lore_-_Deep_History Vvv Is that from Requiem? The latest I could find was the end of the Hedgemon scroll with Caine traveling with tbe Satyxis. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 26, 2021 |
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Apr 26, 2021 11:15
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Hipster Occultist posted:Wait the Protectorate just packed up and left? Destroyed mostly, between how thin they had been stretched, with the Northern Crusade in Lael and the rest back home, then with the politicking after Severius died and then a poo poo ton of Infernalists in their ranks and it all went to poo poo over and over again. Durant had a vision and lead civilians to Henge Hold to escape the Claiming and then when the dust settled and the gate closed, the remaining civilians followed him to Zu. The Protectorate isn't completely empty but there's no Heirophant--at least not that's mentioned--and the priesthood is a shattered remnant of what it was.
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Apr 26, 2021 15:09
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My Warcaster Collision Course kickstarter came in and I got two copies of everything I pledged for, but I only ordered one. Bonus, I guess!
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Apr 29, 2021 22:17
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Did you get the shipping notice in advance or did yours come in as you were opening the box like I did?
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Apr 29, 2021 22:25
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rantmo posted:Did you get the shipping notice in advance or did yours come in as you were opening the box like I did? I got my box on Friday, and I still haven't gotten the shipping notice yet 
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Apr 29, 2021 22:31
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I got the shipping notice yesterday, actually.
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Apr 29, 2021 22:43
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I have an unreasonable amount of Mercs, Minions, and Menoth NIB back from mk2 and while I don't want to sell out of my painted Khador, I figured I'd ask in here: how is the market for stuff from that era? Should I price at, like 50% off msrp or more like 70 these days? The meta died in my area pretty much in 2019 and while I hope some of it comes back as people head back into stores, I have plenty of themes I can already play without holding on to multiple unbuilt merc collossals.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:32
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parabolic posted:I have an unreasonable amount of Mercs, Minions, and Menoth NIB back from mk2 and while I don't want to sell out of my painted Khador, I figured I'd ask in here: how is the market for stuff from that era? Should I price at, like 50% off msrp or more like 70 these days? The meta died in my area pretty much in 2019 and while I hope some of it comes back as people head back into stores, I have plenty of themes I can already play without holding on to multiple unbuilt merc collossals. I couldn't give mine away and it wasn't worth my time to ebay. I ended up throwing most of my stuff away when I moved =/
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Apr 30, 2021 16:15
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How's this game doing? I played a couple demos in 2015 and back then WMH poo poo was literally half the miniatures wall at my FLGS. Now it's all warhammer again. What the gently caress happened? Nobody plays...
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May 4, 2021 03:12
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:How's this game doing? I played a couple demos in 2015 and back then WMH poo poo was literally half the miniatures wall at my FLGS. Now it's all warhammer again. What the gently caress happened? Nobody plays... Long story short that's about what I'd have expected. GW got a new CEO in about 2016 and turned the company around, while Privateer Press burned the retailers in the early 2010s by looking for the Internet Dollar, then in 2016 or 2017 with a new and badly playtested edition, and in 2019 blew up the entire Warmahordes setting with a demonic invasion to pump the new Warcaster game. What the gently caress happened indeed.
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May 4, 2021 04:03
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Yeah long story short Privateer's leadership is an absolute disaster and they burned the game and community down around them.
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May 4, 2021 04:52
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It's sorta clawing some of that back, but yeah it's nothing like the heyday of Mk2.
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May 4, 2021 11:21
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Gorefiend posted:Yeah long story short Privateer's leadership is an absolute disaster and they burned the game and community down around them. For me, the CID was a huge part of what killed it, which on paper sounded like a really good idea.
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May 4, 2021 13:02
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!Klams posted:For me, the CID was a huge part of what killed it, which on paper sounded like a really good idea. The CID was a good idea, but releasing mk3 in such a state that an entire faction was unplayable and had to be redone from scratch was not. Ideally we would have gotten Mk2-quality releases which would have been fine tuned by CID; instead we got broken, hacky messes which were, perhaps, barely functional after CID.
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May 4, 2021 13:16
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Not to mention COVID hasn't helped anything
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May 4, 2021 13:26
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!Klams posted:For me, the CID was a huge part of what killed it, which on paper sounded like a really good idea. Yeah CID was used almost entirely as a way of hyping overpowered new models rather than balancing, and the clear result of that was that your older models wouldn't be updated for years if they missed a CID update. I was really looking forward to regular minor balance updates to bring up less-used models and nudge down the top tier but nope. It'd be trivial to just nudge point values by 1 either way regularly. It's a shame because I thought mk3 at release was extremely solid and fixed most of the issues with mk2. There's also a lot of damage been done by the CID approach to themes - in practice you can't really just buy individual models / impulse buy extra things and adjust your forces over time any more. You pretty much just need to buy an entire theme at once because just buying one unit and adding it to your existing kit doesn't work any more!
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May 4, 2021 13:28
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There was a little time before mk3 when the changes to the core game leaked but the models didn't. Me and some friends played with Mark 2 rules and points in the changes to the game from 3. Warmachine 2.5 if you will, it was really fun. Then the cards and stuff came out and I recall so much Cryx stuff just being nerfed completely. It was extremely unfun that nothing I used to play was good anymore. Cryx needed to be brought down a bit but they went too far I think. The last game I played was in February? I think of 2020 just before covid hit. Wait. I didn't actually play. I ate a weed cookie and was high as a kite while my buddies played.
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May 4, 2021 13:58
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Yeah, I mean I think this really says it all, how there was just this whole world of confusion, and a sense of missing out, and of things feeling futile, that came from it. Which is bizarre, right? You'd think being open and transparent would mitigate that, not exacerbate it. But to say "All factions are getting some really sweeping changes, but not yours for a year, you play with old rules at different points costs" just felt like, 'well, I'm only half playing the right game? I'm in limbo for a year?'. And then, yeah, to get the reigns back on it with themes was probably a good idea from a management / balance perspective, but kinda sucked from a player perspective. I don't wanna be a negative nelly though, I actually picked up a couple of Riot Quest models despite not playing for over two years, because I'm really keen to give Brawlmachine a go when lockdown is fully lifted! It actually really rekindled my interest in the game. It didn't at first, it doesn't 'sound' that appealing on paper to me, but when I started brewing lists, it felt just like those old MKII days. Because the lists are so limited, it feels really good to fit a whole gimmick in. Even if your gimmick is as simple as 'A well rounded army that can take on all comers'. It makes individual models exciting again! I am somewhat gutted at how many of my casters are banned, but what the hey. It seems reasonable.
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May 4, 2021 14:55
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Iron Crowned posted:Not to mention COVID hasn't helped anything Yeah particularly the lore, they ended the story dumps with a note that they were taking a break in part because they wanted to let the tournaments in June '20 dictate a lot of what was standing after the invasion was over. They also needed to refresh a bit of creativity, the need to get the key players to the final battle led to more teleporting than GoT.
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May 4, 2021 15:14
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The rollout of Mk3 was ok, even if Skorne was dead on arrival. CID seemed like a great idea on having a simple patch system to rebalance the odd model here and there, but ended up causing more problems than it fixed. Still the single greatest blow for me and mine was the destruction of the Press Ganger program. Warmachine is a difficult game to get into that has a ton of strange interactions and "gotchas" that can easily kill a new player's enthusiasm. The Press Gangers in the DFW area were key in keeping the community interesting, fun, and with a steady flow of newbloods. They organized neat games and tournaments that helped balance the scene out. Once they were gone, the community seemed to visibly deflate and then finally die. I knew the Press Gangers got wrapped up because of some legal nonsense stemming from Magic the Gathering judges (I think). Its a shame because it was great entryway into this game. I cannot help but feel that they would need something similar to help restart the game and its community.
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May 4, 2021 16:44
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Crazy Ferret posted:The rollout of Mk3 was ok, even if Skorne was dead on arrival. CID seemed like a great idea on having a simple patch system to rebalance the odd model here and there, but ended up causing more problems than it fixed. The Press Ganger cancelation was at once both bad and completely necessary. Magic's judge contracts were possibly offsides. The Press Ganger program, from what I can gather, was analogous but not legally similar. It still had to go because once one class action lawsuit gets filed, it spawns a whole bunch of copycats, and even a frivolous class action lawsuit can crush a smaller company. So cancelling the program I get. Replacing it with nothing, on the other hand, is foolishness.
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May 4, 2021 17:40
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!Klams posted:For me, the CID was a huge part of what killed it, which on paper sounded like a really good idea. The CID was never a good idea. One of the things Privateer Press did very right was bringing out combined supplements for all the factions at once so you never truly had splatbook creep or splatbook envy the way the GW army factions have. Meanwhile with the CID there was always one faction who had both the latest and the coolest toys and the semblance of balance went out of the window.
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May 4, 2021 20:13
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the idea of rolling errata to bring outliers into line was something tournament players had floated for a long, long time (at least since mid-Mk2). mk2 balance was wacky, with asphyxious2 dominating the competitive scene even after multiple nerfs until relatively late in the edition. something had to be done. CID was executed poorly, but the idea of ongoing power level errata to tweak armies into line wasn't inherently a bad one. if we're all playing monday morning quarterback i'd pin the start of the decline on DC leaving. convergence was his baby, and after he got them out the door he felt he was done, i guess... but jason soles wasn't half the designer DC was, and it showed.
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May 4, 2021 20:23
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The game was still pretty popular locally right before COVID. Not quite as popular as it used to be; game night used to be I'd say 70% Warmahordes/30% GW and by the time COVID shut down it was more 50/50. Can't speak to your local scene, obviously, but last I knew it was still going.
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May 5, 2021 00:03
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Maneck posted:The Press Ganger cancelation was at once both bad and completely necessary. Magic's judge contracts were possibly offsides. The Press Ganger program, from what I can gather, was analogous but not legally similar. It still had to go because once one class action lawsuit gets filed, it spawns a whole bunch of copycats, and even a frivolous class action lawsuit can crush a smaller company. So cancelling the program I get. The PG program got ended for the exact same reason that GW's Outrunner programmer ended: taxes that would have been owed on all the product that PG's had been paid in over the entirety of it's existence and going forward. Also, some of the timeline y'all are talking about is a bit off. Mk3 was recovering pretty well until covid hit. Yeah there was a big nosedive for 6-9 months or so after mk3 hit, though. Anyone who remembers Mk2 without rose tinted glasses can tell you the CID system is better than the old release style. In Mk2 you'd be lucky if your faction got 1-2 playable models out of a release cycle, and the old, useless models literally never got buffed. Ever. Like literally ever. You could probably count the number of models that got buffed to a playable level in Mk2 on your fingers alone. A new meta would form every 6 months based on a new tier list that came out and revolved around some new releases, or if you were lucky, a new tier list that came out that gave special rules to old models (this was every Trollblood list). Even big events would have registration numbers that would push anywhere from 50-70% of the sign ups running Cryx, all through Mk2, with the exact same 2 or 3 lists in every single one of them. Mk2 was good in the sense that it was better than most everything out at the time but holy poo poo it was full of problems. Mark 3 should have launched with 3 themes for every faction day 1 though and there's no excuse for that. S.J. fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 04:36
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S.J. posted:Mark 3 should have launched with 3 themes for every faction day 1 though and there's no excuse for that. Tier lists were a huge turn off for me at Mk.3 release. Forcing you into taking a tier list because it gave 9-16 points of free models on top of the theme benefits was way too much to even think about overcoming by choosing not to play in a particular theme. The fail state was not having a generic theme that eschewed the specific theme benefits for a few extra points of models, or some sort of mini-feat benefit, so I could actually be creative about list generation again. I liked mixing up different units to create different scenario pressures instead of having to go deep into a single particular list type. I’m absolutely certain that the game got too big to balance properly without getting absolutely restrictive about list construction, and for a game that was marketed at the time as a fully balanced tournament-style game when 40k was publishing new formations every month that could only jokingly be called “power creep” because it was more like “power leap”, PP did what they needed to do to be able to wrap their heads around how to keep the game relatively balanced and playable. I’ve kept up with the game communities since L&L2016 where I sort of fell out of love with it, and the one thing I’ve never seen seriously suggested is that the game was somehow completely out of whack. There have been meta-shifting units, but they mostly got addressed within a few months. But drat do I miss being able to build creative lists. Themes just feel so limiting. I do hope that Brawlmachine comes back when COVID is done. It might be the WMH for me if the entire local community hasn’t evaporated in the last couple years.
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May 5, 2021 08:50
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S.J. posted:Also, some of the timeline y'all are talking about is a bit off. Mk3 was recovering pretty well until covid hit. Yeah there was a big nosedive for 6-9 months or so after mk3 hit, though. Skorne were my primary faction - and they got annihilated by the change and even after the rework were still bad. I had a benchmark I was going to use; would the Skorne standard bearer in the Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer be any more than a bullet stopper (in Mk2 it made everyone near it fearless). It wasn't - a large and distinctive model that was less useful than a Praetorian. Minimum viable product. quote:Anyone who remembers Mk2 without rose tinted glasses can tell you the CID system is better than the old release style. In Mk2 you'd be lucky if your faction got 1-2 playable models out of a release cycle, and the old, useless models literally never got buffed. Ever. False - and it was a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There were two common ways that models got buffed in Mk2, and both worked. The first was UAs which retroactively made the base unit much more playable and the second was tier lists. But in throwing out the old system for the CID they lost all the benefits of the old system and gained a game with uneven power creep. There was nothing preventing refitting and retraining as a fluff justification for errata in new books (so Cygnar makes a big training drive for Trenchers, making them cheaper - while the stocks of Nomads are running low for a 1 point cost increase). quote:Mark 3 should have launched with 3 themes for every faction day 1 though and there's no excuse for that. Mark 3 should also have lauched with a functional Skorne faction. Not one that they needed to completely overhaul a year in and there's no excuse for that. Mk3 at launch was not ready for the prime time and even with the reworking of themes they didn't fix some of it.
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May 5, 2021 14:58
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PP was deliberately aiming for the "hardcore tournament viable game" slot, in that they wanted a game that people could play competitively for high stakes. this was in contrast to warhammer, which while fun, was always plagued with balance issues. the problem was PP's utter unwillingness to do the work to create that kind of game, most notably by aggressively policing power level. cryx was head and shoulders above the next-best faction, and gaspy2 was so much better than the second best thing you could be doing in cryx, that the meta centralized hard around either playing him and Tartarus or beating him and Tartarus. CID was clearly a reaction to people begging for nerfs to outlying performers, but doing it faction-by-faction just ended up creating another power level merry-go-round.
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May 5, 2021 15:14
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MK3 definitely felt like it was pushed out at about 80% finished at best. Didn't it get leaked or something like that? I remember it feeling like PP had to rush to get it out. Overall it's a better game, the changes they made around Oblivion made it better still, but the themes were badly executed and a lot of the factions and models were (and some still are) bad. Even with all that he game feels like it's in the best shape it's been since I've been playing right now, not that I've actually played in an age, but it also feels like it's stalled out some.
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May 5, 2021 15:14
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MK3 was rushed out because Guild Ball was scything through WM communities at an astonishing pace.
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May 5, 2021 16:04
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:PP was deliberately aiming for the "hardcore tournament viable game" slot, in that they wanted a game that people could play competitively for high stakes. this was in contrast to warhammer, which while fun, was always plagued with balance issues. I'ma disagree with you a bit here. Gaspy2 was too good for a few years, but eventually (I think it was his second) errata took him down to a point where he wasn't a complete monster. No characters on the feat took away his bitchin' assassination game, and left him as a still quite strong attrition caster. Mk3 nerfing excarnate did the rest. You know who was bullshit for entirety of Mk2? Fuckin' Harby. Best scenario caster in the game, bar none. Even with my best Cryx lists I always hoped to dodge her and High Reclaimer, because I had no answers to her bullshit or a cloud wall. Pound for pound Menoth played the scenario game better than anyone. People always remember Cryx as the biggest boogeyman because I could do poo poo like win on turn 2 with Denny2 if you army was slow enough. (I quit before Body and Soul)
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May 5, 2021 16:35
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Hey thread here are some Riot Quest models I've painted recently. Game is good and cool. 
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May 5, 2021 16:44
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Hipster Occultist posted:I'ma disagree with you a bit here... Hayley2
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May 5, 2021 23:38
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koreban posted:Hayley2 This was my experience. Cryx was powerful but if the player knew her ins and outs and ran a good list, they were unstoppable.
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May 6, 2021 01:15
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neonchameleon posted:False - and it was a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There were two common ways that models got buffed in Mk2, and both worked. The first was UAs which retroactively made the base unit much more playable and the second was tier lists. That is not a buff, and you know it. They almost never went back and changed the rules on models to make them better and that's obviously what's being discussed here. The CID process actually goes through and buffs models regardless of whether that model or unit has some ancillary product attached to it. Also, please don't cut off my statements early if you're gonna bother quoting me. Most of the UAs and weapon attachments they came out with didn't actually change the viability of those units, anyways. Tier lists were literally the worst part of Mk2 that literally created the end of that edition - every single tournament was nothing but list chicken via tier lists. Also, you must have just missed the part of Mk3 where Skorne was really strong, because it went on for a while. S.J. fucked around with this message at 01:56 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 01:54
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S.J. posted:That is not a buff, and you know it. UAs absolutely were a buff that turned terrible units into good ones and therefore made the weak stuff playable. quote:Also, you must have just missed the part of Mk3 where Skorne was really strong, because it went on for a while. That was more CID nonsense. Skorne had precisely one list that was above the curve - Zaal 2 Immortals. The second list for any Skorne player was something designed to counter the Immortals counters - and normally included a couple of Animantaraxes as a quasi-beast list. The infantry that are meant to be the backbone of the Skorne (Praetorians, Cataphracts, Venators) have been just plain bad through the edition as are most Skorne beasts (so Skorne poach Minions beasts). The Titans never recovered from being nerfed from DEF 12 to DEF 10 with no explanation given.
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May 6, 2021 02:56
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