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I don’t recall any metal plating sorts itt, but can’t hurt to ask: anybody have a recommended plating bath formula for acid copper electroforming, or any tips more generally? Deets: I’ve got a pretty standard sulfuric acid + copper sulfate + brightener recipe lined up, gonna try out the traditional DIY brightener/throwing aid of blackstrap molasses before resorting to a commercial brightener. Small parts to be plated, 5A rectifier, bath volume of a couple litres. Planning on spinning the plated mandrel with a motor and a slip-ring for the electrical connection, that should go a significant way towards discouraging putting/burning and thin spots in the shell and will let me get good results with a single unspecialized anode shape, but i’ll probably use a magnetic stirrer at first b/c the motor thing might take a bit to come together.
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May 1, 2021 06:22
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I don’t recall any metal plating sorts itt, but can’t hurt to ask: anybody have a recommended plating bath formula for acid copper electroforming, or any tips more generally? We run about 100kw of plating tanks in our shop. Not copper, but I can check my references when I'm in the office. I'm a big fan of conforming anodes but not everything needs it. The biggest, and most critical thing, is surface prep. Our gold standard is the surface break test. If you put a drop of distilled or deionized water onto the area to be plated it should not have any contact angle. We use a proprietary prep and when it's complete a drop of water just wets the surface and has no surface tension. With poor prep you can have a good looking plate with terrible adhesion.
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May 1, 2021 13:03
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Hey all. It's time for me to buy a welder. I've reviewed all the good advice you've given me in this thread, and wanted to run a purchase by you before I push the button. I'm currently looking at the Parweld XTE 181C MIG welder. It seems to be reasonably well-regarded, can do gas and gasless, and requires 16A @ 230V which is the same as the other large equipment I have (table saw, planer etc). It's also within my budget. There's no decent used MIG available locally. I've had a quick look around and it seems like the common material I'd be welding (1" square tubing) is typically available off the shelf in 1.5mm thickness, so that seems to fit with this too. I'll be mostly making light-duty structural stuff like tables, carts, and shelving. Possible future hobby use on cars but that's only a maybe. I considered the advice I got to start with stick (I think it was from Ambrose Burnside), and a cheap used arc welder can be had for £25 locally, but I also saw advice saying that 3 or 4mm is a minimum reasonable material thickness for arc welding. Still an option for the future, though. Does this seem like a sensible newbie choice?
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May 2, 2021 13:32
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What are you going to weld? I started with stick and think that is the best way to start unless you are going to weld sheet metal. Welded down to 1mm though it's difficult. 2mm doable. Anything structural, then I really recommend it. I got mig only last year and it is easy to get a sweet looking weld that is also weak as hell.
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May 2, 2021 14:28
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His Divine Shadow posted:What are you going to weld? I started with stick and think that is the best way to start unless you are going to weld sheet metal. Welded down to 1mm though it's difficult. 2mm doable. Anything structural, then I really recommend it. I got mig only last year and it is easy to get a sweet looking weld that is also weak as hell. Jaded Burnout posted:I've had a quick look around and it seems like the common material I'd be welding (1" square tubing) is typically available off the shelf in 1.5mm thickness, so that seems to fit with this too. I'll be mostly making light-duty structural stuff like tables, carts, and shelving. Possible future hobby use on cars but that's only a maybe.
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May 2, 2021 15:28
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Sorry phone posting and reading is just such a PITA. It's beyond my understanding that this is some people's main way of posting... That mig would do the job then.
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May 2, 2021 15:33
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No worries! The stuff I’m planning to do is pretty much “like wood but stronger”. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 15:50 on May 2, 2021 |
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May 2, 2021 15:47
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All right, here's one. I'm looking at making some things that are fundamentally, from a loading point of view, quarter elliptical leaf springs; one end fixed, load applied at other end, the thingy bending being a desired outcome. Blade adjustable sway bars if anyone actually cares. I know the traditional leaf spring material is stuff like 5160 and I'm given to understand that for springs it's usually hardened to around HRC40. But I can't easily find it in 1 3/4" bars which is what I would want to work from because of the end. On the other hand, I can find 4340 all day and heat treated to similar hardness it seems like it's roughly equivalent. Anyone know why it wouldn't work as a subsitution?
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May 2, 2021 17:22
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Yooper posted:We run about 100kw of plating tanks in our shop. Not copper, but I can check my references when I'm in the office. I'm a big fan of conforming anodes but not everything needs it. The biggest, and most critical thing, is surface prep. Our gold standard is the surface break test. If you put a drop of distilled or deionized water onto the area to be plated it should not have any contact angle. We use a proprietary prep and when it's complete a drop of water just wets the surface and has no surface tension. With poor prep you can have a good looking plate with terrible adhesion. Thanks. Because i’m making sheet metal press tooling here i’m in the unusual position of being able to make very closely-contoured anodes if need be; I’ll just gin up a short-run tool that’s a low-detail smoothed version of the final part, and stamp out an anode or two that’ll let me achieve an almost uniform distance between a critical face of the part and the anode. Can also use copper tubing for instances where i’m plating a cylinder form, which will probably come up if I want to attempt to plate 3D printed pistons/cylinders (wanna try electroforming copper over a slightly-undersized printed core to produce precision-fit assemblies with zero machining required) . Gonna play around with contouring the anodes alongside my thought of spinning the cathode, see what gets better results for less effort. Re: surface prep, I’m a lot thinner on setup details, beyond prepping the part itself to give a little tooth, using a good degreaser and knowing diagnostic tricks like the surface break test I’m not knowledgeable. Can you recommend any products/techniques for surface prep? Although I’m trying to do stuff on the cheap I’m not adverse to buying a commercial product for something as critical as that. Also, adhesion won’t be a concern for some of my parts- where i’m directly plating onto a part, sure, but toolmaking will involve a melt-away electroforming mandrel, so a thick void-free deposit is important, but I assume base adhesion stops mattering once the base liquefies. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 2, 2021 |
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May 2, 2021 18:31
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Re: surface prep, I’m a lot thinner on setup details, beyond prepping the part itself to give a little tooth, using a good degreaser and knowing diagnostic tricks like the surface break test I’m not knowledgeable. Can you recommend any products/techniques for surface prep? Although I’m trying to do stuff on the cheap I’m not adverse to buying a commercial product for something as critical as that. I found some info in the Metal Finishing Guidebook on copper plating. This thing used to be an amazing gold mine of information. Eventually it got bought by a conglomerate who got bought by a conglomerate and they shut it down. The whole PDF is like 1gb, otherwise I'd post it here.       As far as prep, I'd start with a strong alkaline cleaner. I'd also use a basic anode first before getting into conformal anodes. Copper plating is extraordinarily efficient so you may have amazing throwing power. The stuff we plate is, at best, 15% efficient. So we have to work really hard to get it where we want it to go in a dimensional manner. The
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May 3, 2021 00:00
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Yooper posted:I found some info in the Metal Finishing Guidebook on copper plating. This thing used to be an amazing gold mine of information. Eventually it got bought by a conglomerate who got bought by a conglomerate and they shut it down. The whole PDF is like 1gb, otherwise I'd post it here. This is all great, thanks- I can track my own copy down pretty readily, I'll give it a read-through. Do you have any examples of these cleaners/what your shop uses for their process? Sorry, this is all new to me, I've got Simple Green (the gentle one) and zep ~purple industrial~ degreaser (the tough one) and everything else is uncharted territory; also wouldnt know if those are adequate substitutes for whatever gets used in industry. do you think i'd have any use for a Hull cell? this is getting extra-extra-ahead of myself, but they sound both useful and interesting in principle. Not interesting enough to compel me to shell out for a commercial hull cell, but I can find 3d-printable air-agitated 267ml cell files pretty readily, so I could roll my own test cell at material cost, especially if i don't source the specialty phosphoric copper or... iridium-clad titanium?? anodes that are preferred for acid copper cells Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 04:52 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 04:00
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Ambrose Burnside posted:This is all great, thanks- I can track my own copy down pretty readily, I'll give it a read-through. You'll want to find the 2002 version, in later years it turned into 90% advertising. As far as cleaners I'd start with what you have, rinse thoroughly, and plate. I dug through my work texts on copper plating and nothing speaks of special preparations so I'm assuming nothing special is required other than a clean substrate. We chrome plate stainless, inconels, pyromets, and they must be specially prepped prior to plating. In your case just get the gunk off and go. If you have issues then we'll go from there. No clue on hull cells. We don't use them. Our bath chemistry is not all that crazy where I need to study it that closely. You mentioned molasses and I found a list of poo poo you can use as an additive in one of my older books. It included gelatin, casein, "animal glue", urea, and coffee. I know it's trustworthy because this is the dude that wrote the book. 
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May 4, 2021 13:50
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Jaded Burnout posted:Hey all. It's time for me to buy a welder. This is a sensible newbie choice. The fact that there are only 8 voltage settings makes me weary- but that's the only negative thing I can say about that machine. You are absolutely going to want to be able to make fine adjustments based on the material you're working with, especially if you plan on welding thin-wall tubing. I have learned that you don't want to rely on reccomended voltage settings- it's better to think of them as a starting point from which you will use as a baseline to tune in exactly the kind of weld you want. If you have no interest in making #weldporn and just want to glue the drat pieces of metal together, this machine has everything you want. If you want to weld non-ferrous metals (aluminum) at some point, you will need a machine that can output alternating current- this appears to only output direct current? Stick welding is basically Caveman-tier at this point. Unless you plan on doing weird Farm Stuff with cast iron / mystery steel, you don't ever really need to learn stick. It is very arcane and mostly outmoded and you will probably just end up frustrated. The techniques and dexterity that stick demands do not really carry over to MIG or TIG. Edit: I am a full-bore TIG elitist. If you have any interest in welding beyond just gluing the drat pieces of metal together, invest in a mid-range TIG setup. If you're confident that you're a "grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't" person, a MIG welder like the one you linked are likely all you will ever need. Also, I could probably talk about welding all day. Hit me up if you have weird questions mkvltra fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 17:58
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8 settings will be more than enough for sheet metal to 3-4 mm plate that's the range for that machine. You don't just use the power settings to adjust a mig, the wire feed speed also has an effect. I am pretty sure you can get good looking welds within that adjustment range. I only have 8 settings on my machine which is a 2nd hand pro-model and it's for a bigger power range. I liked that machine because it's a transformer, not an inverter. Simple and durable. And definitely don't agree stick is outmoded, and if one has an interest in welding itself, then it's definitely worth looking into, I started with it. I still use stick because it's just so handy, and it produces reliable results. When I need to count on a weld I stick weld with 7018. It's also fun to stick weld.
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May 4, 2021 19:09
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mkvltra posted:This is a sensible newbie choice. Good notes. I have ordered that machine and all the bits. Yeah the only needs I have right now are workshop fixtures and carts. Later on I'll likely use it for hidden reinforcement of nice wood furniture, or bases for tables, but it'll likely be all square tube stuff, maybe some rod, with a finish of "grinder, sanding, and painting". Nothing standalone-fancy. It's a shame that aluminium isn't an option as you say, but it seems like doing that requires a different league of setup to do well, so I decided it wasn't worth it for a nice-to-have.
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May 4, 2021 19:32
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Jaded Burnout posted:
FWIW, you probably could do aluminum with that welder but you'd need a spool gun. Well, if its capable of AC that is. For an entry level welder like that, a spool gun would possibly cost almost as much as the welder itself. We've got a small flux core Lincoln at work that cost about 800 or so bucks at Home Depto. A spool gun for it is 600 last time I looked. Before we got that one I had mig welded before but on a different welder, and someone else had always changed settings etc. so although I *could* make some welds and sometimes even good ones, but there was a learning curve to it. I was pretty much guessing all the time until I really took the time to look at the chart inside the flap that showed voltages and whatnot. Like the other goon said though, you may wish to fine tune things a little bit once you get some practice. By the time we got this one most of my experience was with stick. Again, like the other goon said there isn't much technique transfer between the two and the last time I had used a mig, was long enough before that that I mostly only remembered techniques for setting myself on fire with it. I didn't see your OP on this, but are you using gas or flux core? Since most of my experience was with stick, which means little to no maintenance I learned some things the hard way with the more maintenance intensive mig/flux welder: Only tighten the drive rollers just tight enough that the wire feeds smoothly. Its possible to crush the "hollow" (thought it does have flux inside) wire which will cause feeding problems. Clean the drive rollers regularly. Feeding problems can result if your rollers get dirty or "clogged". The liner inside the gun/hose needs to be cleaned out every now and then. As it is a really tightly coiled wire and little fragments of welding wire flake off and can clog it. Its possible to remove it, the manual will probably show how. Be careful not to kink it when you put it back in the hose. Hell, a spare liner will be handy too. Also note that the wire can wear a groove into the inside of the liner, which may once again..... Cause feeding problems. I've never done this myself, but supposedly if you mark the liner before you remove it, you can reinstall it 180 degrees out from how it was, and get some more life out of it. But, like I said, never done this myself, your results may vary. Keep the hose as straight as possible. Any turns/curves as gradual as possible. Try not to step on or kink the hose, or wrap it up too tightly when not in use. A good way to help keep the inside of the gun liner *cleaner* is to poke the wire through a couple foam ear plugs before it goes through the drive rollers. Keep a bunch of spare contact tips handy. You never know when you'll need a new one. Something like this: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/lincoln-electric-magnum-pro-contact-tip-pack-0-035-in-0589626p.html#srp Nozzle dip is handy too. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/welding-tip-nozzle-gel-0588154p.html#srp These "welding pliers" are also neato too, though a pair of regular needle nose pliers work almost as good. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-welding-pliers-0589624p.html#srp A torch tip cleaner is very useful. There will be that one time when you're right in the middle of something on Sunday, everything is closed and you're on your last contact tip and the thing gets hosed up and you're almost done. Torch tip cleaner might save the day when those feed problems crop up due to an old, beat up contact tip. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/tip-cleaner-0588130p.html#srp I know you're across the pond, so probably don't have a Canadian Tire there, but the links will give you an idea. wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 23:16
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Just because people keep saying it... AC for aluminum is only for TIG, MIG/spoolgun aluminum is DC electrode negative, just like basically everything else.
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May 4, 2021 23:20
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I still think the best possible setup for a hobbyist welder is a small (~200A) AC/DC TIG with an accessory stick holder. Yes, TIG is slower than MIG and harder to learn...but you're a hobbyist, not a car factory. You can spend the time learning to do it right, and it's okay if the project takes a couple of hours instead of minutes. TIG makes the pretty welds and you can weld any metal that exists, right down to foil thicknesses if you're good. And for the cases where your buddy asks you to fix his snow plow or garden gate, you pick up a box of 6010 sticks and you're set. You can even do TIG brazing and carbon-arc gouging and other crazy poo poo like that. Of course an AC/DC TIG is also on the expensive side of welding machines, but what is a hobby for if not  (I also am a TIG elitist) Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 23:30
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AmbassadorofSodomy posted:I didn't see your OP on this, but are you using gas or flux core? Gas. I understand the principle of flux and flux core wire based on my (similiar but different) experience with flux in soldering, but I was seeing a general vibe of it being messier and more awkward than gas. That machine supports both, though, should I want to change. AmbassadorofSodomy posted:Since most of my experience was with stick, which means little to no maintenance I learned some things the hard way with the more maintenance intensive mig/flux welder: Thanks for all the tips! Sagebrush posted:I still think the best possible setup for a hobbyist welder is a small (~200A) AC/DC TIG with an accessory stick holder. I'm on board, but at this stage of my journey into metalworking it's beyond my needs and budget.
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May 5, 2021 04:34
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Jaded Burnout posted:Gas. I understand the principle of flux and flux core wire based on my (similiar but different) experience with flux in soldering, but I was seeing a general vibe of it being messier and more awkward than gas. That machine supports both, though, should I want to change. FCAW is great for "farm repairs". It's sloppy, yeah. But you can weld outside in the wind. I love my little 120v flux core box because I can plug it into any regular US outlet or decent extension cord to do stupid things like fix a fence, weld a nut on a busted off bolt head at my buddy's house, etc. But it's not "the" welder that you want if you're doing clean/inside work. That would be your MIG unless you need to be doing things that are more appropriate for stick (also good outside!) or TIG. But it sure is handy to have one around.
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May 5, 2021 04:45
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Motronic posted:FCAW is great for "farm repairs". It's sloppy, yeah. But you can weld outside in the wind. I love my little 120v flux core box because I can plug it into any regular US outlet or decent extension cord to do stupid things like fix a fence, weld a nut on a busted off bolt head at my buddy's house, etc. Amen. My lovely CH flux core gets a ton of use because it's just easier and gets the job done.
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May 5, 2021 12:04
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Sagebrush posted:I still think the best possible setup for a hobbyist welder is a small (~200A) AC/DC TIG with an accessory stick holder. I too am (err was, sold in a move ~4 years ago) a TIG elitist and personally I found it easier to lay nice welds with the tig than the MIG. I basically followed this book and made nice welds after about an hour of practice. That said, when I needed to do poo poo to the bodies or exhausts of my friends cars I never had enough hands or the right position and theres just some things that can't be clamped. Would've been very nice to wire brush the car, tack in place and get to it with a MIG. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 14:01
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CarForumPoster posted:I too am (err was, sold in a move ~4 years ago) a TIG elitist and personally I found it easier to lay nice welds with the tig than the MIG. I basically followed this book and made nice welds after about an hour of practice.
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May 5, 2021 14:11
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AmbassadorofSodomy posted:Yeah OP get that book. It's worth the money, though the book he linked is an older edition. I have the third edition which has some updates but even that one I've had for over a decade. Don't know if there is a fourth edition out there but still buy that poo poo.  Looks like 2007 is the latest version. All my accessories arrived today but not the actual welder. Guess I can still put stickers on my helmet and look cool. MIG wire is heavy as gently caress.
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May 5, 2021 15:36
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Yooper posted:You'll want to find the 2002 version, in later years it turned into 90% advertising. Managed to track down Modern Electroplating, vol. 5 instead, still a great resource though. enjoying the details on some weird-but-cool niche processes i've never heard of, like ~~electrocomposites~~, where you suspend a fine-grained particle in the bath and let it get 'plated under'- alumina dramatically increases the material's rigidity/strength, borides/carbides make for high wear resistance, use graphite with copper and it's like you're electroplating with oil-bearing bronze bushing material, etc. very cool stuff molasses sounds weird but it makes sense once you learn that sugars act as oxygen getters, without which pitting and voids become hard to avoid; sulphur compounds also do something helpful. not many household products combine sugar and sulphur, blackstrap molasses is a weird exception. i appreciate that people have been plating for so long that basically every household product has been tried to improve results, and there are actually some good performers you can grab from any pantry. re: the rest, yeah i'm definitely ready to mix a couple litres of solution up and get to it. i think i'm procrastinating because i don't want to have to handle + store the solution, work with strong acids, wrangle all necessary PPE and eye-wash accoutrements, etc- all that fun stuff that makes plating such a goddamn pain in the rear end. not like i didn't know what I was getting into when I cooked this plan up
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May 5, 2021 18:56
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also that plating book had a delightfully niche-interest timeline. i am aggrieved by the typos but not the content
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May 5, 2021 18:59
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Last page or so has me all fired up. For a hobbyist looking to dive into TIG, is there any reason to spend 2.5x as much on the apparently super popular Lincoln Square Wave TIG 200 vs some of the many other options with allegedly similar specs that only cost like $800? I know you get what you pay for, but I don’t need a Ferrari.
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May 5, 2021 23:49
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I have an Everlast AC/DC TIG that is several years old and it's never let me down. The older model of this one: https://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerTIG-185-Inverter-based-Voltage/dp/B00AWU739O Mine doesn't do pulse stuff so that's a nice bonus in the updated version. Some of the old shop guys made fun of me for getting a welder that was GREEN!!! instead of RED or BLUE but I've had no complaints.
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May 6, 2021 00:04
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I own a red welder, and learned how to weld, for given values of "learned", on a blue welder. Practically speaking the only difference between the two is the fact that I could get the red one a bit cheaper than the blue one when I was in the market.
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May 6, 2021 00:08
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It's weird that the factory for the yellow welders is local to here but I only ever, ever ever see the blue ones in the wild
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May 6, 2021 01:07
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Blue crew here, but in reality we all bow down to the ultimate device: the green and orange bottles. It welds it cuts it bends it makes carburized french fries.
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May 6, 2021 01:15
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I'm a day late and a dollar short here, but let me recommend an oxy-propane setup for brazing as an alternative to MIG for joining box steel.
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May 6, 2021 01:57
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There are tig welders for $200 on ebay that supposedly work ok. I got one a while back, haven't used it yet so I can't say if it actually works. But there are youtube videos of it working
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May 6, 2021 04:57
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Bad Munki posted:Last page or so has me all fired up. If you like expensive machines with a short lifetime, no user serviceability and spare parts costing as much as the machine itself then they're great. Though I guess that's also true for the 800 version. But you're out less money then! His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 08:39 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 07:32
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Bad Munki posted:Last page or so has me all fired up. I know a few people who went for a cheap tig and they're happy with them. I've also had Lincoln for about 15 years now and only replaced consumables.
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May 7, 2021 23:26
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People who know axes: what would these be for, splitting?   I know they're nothing special but I would like to sharpen them, is this cheerful fella and his rag trick to be trusted? https://youtu.be/tWIxWjrhpv0
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May 9, 2021 21:35
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Need to see a top down pic to see what the width profile looks like. Might be a felling axe and a splitting axe?
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May 9, 2021 21:47
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Sure, and a handle pic incase that's important: 
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May 9, 2021 22:05
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Boys axe/hatchet and an un-offset/straight handle broad axe
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May 10, 2021 00:05
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Yeah, the broad axe would be better at felling, the hatchet at splitting, but they're both smaller than you'd want for those tasks. For cutting up and splitting small stuff around camp, they'd work fine if they were cleaned up and sharpened.
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May 10, 2021 00:53
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