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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Exclusive preview of the next HOI patch:

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Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

ilitarist posted:

I am yet to see a mod for any game (that is not a bugfix, balance, UI or graphics improvement) that doesn't feel like a kitchensink of unedited ideas shoehorned into UI and gameplay systems that do not support it. I guess mods are fine when you just like exploring design ideas, not playing them.

And every time someone says "try this mod, it's really good" about Paradox game I open it and see introductory events configuring mod that are more complex than most IDEs. Then decision list has a dozen decisions like "show/hide genocide options" or "click me to see the list of current dragons in the game via event". Then you get events with dumb Skyrim references. Then it works extremely slow but at the same time AI doesn't do anything. Then you discover that any click you do has two screens of effects like "+0.1% to peasant population growth" with "20 rebel stacks spawn" hidden somewhere on the 48th line.

It's fine some people like it, but if I'd wanted all of this experience I'd just play EU4 Leviathan right now.

Wtf mods are you trying

PittTheElder posted:

I've never played HOI, but the other Paradox titles could certainly stand to hue far closer to the historical course of events. Alt-History is much less interesting when absolutely everything is ahistorical (and usually ahistorical in the exact same way as the last dozen games you played)

Yeah whenever people the "just go play EU2" thing like... that's not what I want. But currently EU2 or HoI2 style "80% of the same poo poo happens every game" is the norm, except it's just based on whatever build you're playing with minimal influence from what happened historically even if events were set in motion before the start date. Meanwhile stuff like the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia and formation of Rum will never, ever happen in a million games. In CK if I'm playing a totally ahistorical reformed norse run I'd rather a world vaguely relateable to our own to compare to and not 1000 years of Karling blobbery and an immortal massive byzantium.

EU4 actually does a pretty good job, where stuff like the castillian civil war, the timurid collapse, or the prussian confederation happen almost without fail because they were already probably going to happen before the game starts, whereas events fall off late game as it becomes less and less likely that the conditions for specific historical events will trigger.

Leviathan if it worked was really good for this in SEA- previously I bet 90%+ of majapahit players didn't even realize that they were a declining hegemon and not just one of many random statelets.

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 14:20 on May 4, 2021

Bastastic
Jun 20, 2010

Which expansions/dlc are required to have a good time with Stellaris? There's a space sale on paradox's website

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Torrannor posted:

Guilli's planet modifiers are another very popular mod, that expands the number of planet modifiers, gives special precursor dig site, and adds new relics. It's really good, and imho slots seamlessly into the base game. And the devs did hire Guilli, so they apparently agree.
I know I'm in the minority here but Guilli's mod adds too much for my taste. I'm an old that doesnt like when mods throw things wildly off and I constantly comment that no one that has the willpower to mod a game for free knows what the word "Balance" means. Guilli's wasnt wild but I kept finding things that were, to me, definitely overpowered compared to things in vanilla. All I really wanted in a mod is some basic things to make planets a tiny bit more interesting and unique, but no matter what settings I fiddled with with Guilli's mod it always went off the deep end and any other mod I tried was just insanely stupid.

His mod is extremely high quality and well done so I'm glad he got a job out of it (if thats what he wanted). I am by no means saying its bad but its just not for me.

Bastastic posted:

Which expansions/dlc are required to have a good time with Stellaris? There's a space sale on paradox's website
I dont know off the top of my head but the OP in the Stellaris thread has some info though I'm not sure if its up to date, but people will be happy to tell you if you ask:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3850079&pagenumber=1

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 14:25 on May 4, 2021

LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.
I... I don't think we've hired Guilli?

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

LordMune posted:

I... I don't think we've hired Guilli?

Well the community thinks you did so you'd better just roll with it.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

LordMune posted:

I... I don't think we've hired Guilli?
lmao I dunno if its the lack of sleep or what but this just got me hahaha

Cynic Jester
Apr 11, 2009

Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

LordMune posted:

I... I don't think we've hired Guilli?

Congrats on hiring Guilli

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

LordMune posted:

I... I don't think we've hired Guilli?

Well you hired Wiz because he fixed CK2, so clearly what you need to do is hire Guilli and have him make Victoria 3.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Bastastic posted:

Which expansions/dlc are required to have a good time with Stellaris? There's a space sale on paradox's website

In roughly descending order of essential-ness:

Utopia is huge. Ascension perks are such a big part of the game. Hive Minds are fine but kind of disappointing, since there's so much of the game they just don't engage with, but they have so little worth mentioning that's special for them only. Megastructures are probably the best late-game addition of any DLC to date, and while the other DLCs have megastructures too, this has the really neat ones. Utopia is really the only Old Gods-like DLC that I'd recommend every Stellaris player has, even if Hives are no great shakes.

Synthetic Dawn has one of the most fun single playstyles - robot hive minds - but basically nothing else to recommend it. They have a very different growth curve, but unlike Hive Minds, they do get to play around with the regular rules for bio pops, too, depending on your particular strategy. If you want to play robot hives or the borg or the recurring comic book villains who collect people to put them in a zoo, get this DLC! But you'll never notice you don't have it if you don't play a robot civ.

Distant Stars and Ancient Relics are both more stuff for your science ships to find while exploring. Neither of them is mindblowing, both of them are fine additions. If you were only going to get one, I'd say Ancient Relics, because its signature feature (archaeology) has good variety throughout the game. On the other hand, DS's L-Cluster doesn't feel like it goes anywhere interesting, and makes figuring out the geography of the galaxy a pain.

Leviathans is where I'd start questioning the value for money. The leviathans and enclaves give you stuff on the map to care about and that does help with how same-y the map can be in Stellaris. However, the War in Heaven is counterintuitive and powerfully unfun.

Apocalypse is weird because, on one hand, most of the things it adds are stupid chaff, but it adds a few quality of life things that are game-changing. In particular, Colossuses (the death star from Star Wars) are dumb and badly designed and not at all entertaining after you blow up a planet once, but they let you get a total war casus belli for the endgame, so you can actually win games before you die of old age. I can't really recommend this DLC but realize you're playing the game differently from most people if you don't have it. That said, Nemesis also adds a total war casus belli you can unlock, too.

Nemesis adds some gimmicky stuff you'll do once. Becoming the Crisis is funny but too OP to do repeatedly, and becoming the Emperor is only practical deep into the victory-lap stage of the game. The espionage rework in this expansion is really terrible, but the terrible parts of it were in the free update so whatever. Espionage isn't a system you'll fool with very often.

Federations is middling. It completely reworks Federations into a series of radioboxes and sliders that you can adjust over time to gain more control over your Federation. The AI is very passive so this is just making diplomatic play stronger, but the vanilla federations are very boring and bad, so I can't really fault that. It also adds the Galactic Senate, which I find to be a bunch of very boring event spam that goes nowhere. A lot of its systems feel incomplete without Nemesis; they really do feel like they were developed at the same time.

Lithoids and Necroids species packs add a specific new playstyle for rock people and undead people, along with some portraits. The undead portraits can be used on any bio civ, while the rock portraits have to be lithoids. They're both fiddly variations on the basic rules, screwing around with the rules for pop growth/creation. Currently, that's the most important part of minmaxing Stellaris right now, so that can be a draw for either of these. (Lithoids was OP for a long while but has been reined in, while Necroids are still really powerful.) I don't think they really land for flavor. Necroids are just kind of blandly strong, and the only really interesting Lithoid variation is the kill-everyone version because it can eat planets. These are cheap, though, and worth at least a playthrough or two.

MegaCorps sucks. Corporate civs suck, Ecumenopolises are not interesting, the Caravaneers are endless event spam, the slave market is silly OP in a very boring way, crime corp civs are a huge pain to play against but also terrible to play. This is the bad DLC, give this one a skip.

Humanoids and Plantoids portraits are just art packs. If you want the portraits or the ships, buy the DLC. You can see what they look like in-game without buying it. There's nothing else to this.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Jul 4, 2021

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

It would have been a better idea to shear off the wacky alt history trees into seperate scenarios and then have deeper historical trees with legitimate choices to make.

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go

ilitarist posted:

juvenility, like adding Guybrush Treepwood hero into your dark fantasy world. He has a button that makes him sing songs.

drat sounds like you should get that stick out of your rear end??

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

GrossMurpel posted:

IIRC you need to spend all your political power on firing events that delay the civil war, and when the war kicks off, you get control of the territories where you had more influence. Too bad your national focii still rely on you fully owning historical provinces, so either you know the exact historical borders of the factions or you have to read up beforehand what you should own to get your "spawn troops here" NFs.
It's quite inexplicable to me why they keep stuffing every single unique gameplay system into the decisions/events screen, same for France's instability and USA's Senate stuff.
E: I still haven't figured out what I'm supposed to do with the "break the London Naval Treaty" event that's on a countdown at the start of the game.
Yeah I heard that about the Spain tree but I cant actually get it to work. I'm no HoI4 expert or anything but in general I feel confident with the game and being able to figure out focus trees to what they intend, and maybe a bit more. I'm the loser that managed to be home by Christmas 1939 as Bicycle riding Democratic Netherlands against a historical Germany & Italy. I also figured out how to become the Communist Balkan Federation (including Hungary and Turkey) as Bulgaria before WWII starts. But with Spain? I'm just lost, and not for lack of trying.

GrossMurpel posted:

No counters no buy
Hard agree.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Really though, please hire Guilli if he wants to work there. GPM is basically an unofficial expansion I won’t play the game without.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

GrossMurpel posted:

No counters no buy

I, on the other hand, would rather just replace all counters and icons and words with pictures of different tanks. Just have the entire interface be composed of various tank variants that I can click on.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Yeah I heard that about the Spain tree but I cant actually get it to work. I'm no HoI4 expert or anything but in general I feel confident with the game and being able to figure out focus trees to what they intend, and maybe a bit more. I'm the loser that managed to be home by Christmas 1939 as Bicycle riding Democratic Netherlands against a historical Germany & Italy. I also figured out how to become the Communist Balkan Federation (including Hungary and Turkey) as Bulgaria before WWII starts. But with Spain? I'm just lost, and not for lack of trying.

Hard agree.

That doesn't track with my Spain experience at all- the first chunk is linear, and none of the focuses after that I've gone down require you to own specific provinces. The latter half is also not nearly as complicated as it looks, at least on the good guy side, because immediately once the civil war starts you pick communist, anarchist, or republican and that locks out even more of the tree, so what you've actually got is an extremely normal country's tree. You'd only ever need to read up or experiment if you're trying to minmax a specific run, but I did it all by literally D6ing the various lock-out choices the first time. I won despite taking like a month to figure out the province garrison decisions, too.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Wtf mods are you trying

M&T for EU4 is my guess. I think that mod gets a lot of things right from a system design perspective, but oh boy is it ever hard to approach. Which is not exactly their fault given the modding options for the interface but still. It is something.

quote:

Yeah whenever people the "just go play EU2" thing like... that's not what I want. But currently EU2 or HoI2 style "80% of the same poo poo happens every game" is the norm, except it's just based on whatever build you're playing with minimal influence from what happened historically even if events were set in motion before the start date. Meanwhile stuff like the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia and formation of Rum will never, ever happen in a million games. In CK if I'm playing a totally ahistorical reformed norse run I'd rather a world vaguely relateable to our own to compare to and not 1000 years of Karling blobbery and an immortal massive byzantium.

EU4 actually does a pretty good job, where stuff like the castillian civil war, the timurid collapse, or the prussian confederation happen almost without fail because they were already probably going to happen before the game starts, whereas events fall off late game as it becomes less and less likely that the conditions for specific historical events will trigger.

Yeah I also haven't played EU2, but I completely agree about CK3. I don't want to knock CK3 too hard because it's a legitimately great game, the core gameplay loop is crazy addictive, and in terms of software defects it seems to have the fewest of any Paradox release I've ever played. But yeah there's only so many times you can watch Roman doukes run off and effortlessly conquer North Africa and the Pontic Steppe that you can't help but feel like there are systems missing.

Even stuff like the Mongol invasions, which clearly have had (good) effort go into their spawning and breakup, is severely undercut by the way they fall flat every single game. Also every Crusade ever travelling by boat.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Spain, Mexico, maybe France are my favorite vanilla trees I think. I haven't tried Turkey yet but it looks dece

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



ilitarist posted:

FfH2 yas impressive, yes. But even it had that kitchensink problem and juvenility, like adding Guybrush Treepwood hero into your dark fantasy world. He has a button that makes him sing songs. I also liked Rhey's and Fall. That mod knew when to stop and how to tweak the systems just enough without going too far.
I feel like this is very unfair to FfH2 as it had a consistent tone and feel to its setting throughout. Treepwood being a hero for the pirate faction was a funny reference no more consequential than a joke unit in an westwood or blizzard rts, being a one time unit for the most light hearted faction in the game. The only other similarly juvenile thing I can think of are the sex events which were all edited out a version or two after they were added.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Oh man, whoever said they really opened up the interface to modders in CK3 wasn't kidding. I just went looking at mods to see if any balance mods existed yet, and found this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2218592748

I have not played it or even read the description of what it does, but those screenshots show whole new interfaces, which is pretty rad.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

Lawman 0 posted:

It would have been a better idea to shear off the wacky alt history trees into seperate scenarios and then have deeper historical trees with legitimate choices to make.

extremely hot take from HoI4 dev: a historical focus tree branch with "legitimiate choices" is indistinguishable from an alt-history focus tree

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

PittTheElder posted:

Oh man, whoever said they really opened up the interface to modders in CK3 wasn't kidding. I just went looking at mods to see if any balance mods existed yet, and found this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2218592748

I have not played it or even read the description of what it does, but those screenshots show whole new interfaces, which is pretty rad.


It's cool UI modding can support something like this. Notice there's a scroll there! Not sure it's a good idea to add something like that, but it's great it's possible.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

PittTheElder posted:

Oh man, whoever said they really opened up the interface to modders in CK3 wasn't kidding. I just went looking at mods to see if any balance mods existed yet, and found this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2218592748

I have not played it or even read the description of what it does, but those screenshots show whole new interfaces, which is pretty rad.

I wonder if this means we will get a Battletech CKII mod.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

HoI also supports extensive UI modding just tbc

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I shouldn't be surprised this exists, but for some reason the janky grammar in the tooltip just slays me

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011
Well it's not called breasts enlargement

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


stellaris also has extensive UI mod capabilities, except afaik you can't add new menus into the interface so most of the capabilities for defining UI elements are useless for the average modder

vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

PittTheElder posted:

I shouldn't be surprised this exists, but for some reason the janky grammar in the tooltip just slays me


every time you do it, they add a capital letter to 'breast'

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

PittTheElder posted:

I shouldn't be surprised this exists, but for some reason the janky grammar in the tooltip just slays me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJUHGjVm0E

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
lmao I feel like this podcast is a shot at this forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRXHELU6aLo

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Here's your next video idea paradox, "What it's like releasing the lowest reviewed product on steam"

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Paradox really needs to consider that if the latest string of failures and missteps isn't due to being a publicly traded company, that's worse, not better.

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


Beamed posted:

Paradox really needs to consider that if the latest string of failures and missteps isn't due to being a publicly traded company, that's worse, not better.

Right? All that signals to me is that the rot hasn't even begun to really set in :v:

Fellblade
Apr 28, 2009
I don't really agree that it's worse.

Paradox isn't magically going to stop being a publicly traded company, so I'd rather the cause be something else, something that they can change and fix.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Goon fundraiser to buy a controlling stake in the company

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Goon fundraiser to buy a controlling stake in the company

It would certainly be interesting to see what games goon democracy would produce, if past LPs are any indicator.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Wiz posted:

It would certainly be interesting to see what games goon democracy would produce, if past LPs are any indicator.

In order:
Vicky 3
Vicky 4
Vicky 5
Vicky 6
EU: Rome 2 that pretends Imperator never existed
Vicky 7

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011

Kaza42 posted:

In order:
Vicky 3
Vicky 4
Vicky 5
Vicky 6
EU: Rome 2 that pretends Imperator never existed
Vicky 7

what about Vicky 8, when is that coming out

Ardryn
Oct 27, 2007

Rolling around at the speed of sound.


Ghost of Mussolini posted:

what about Vicky 8, when is that coming out

Sometime after the grand strategy high fantasy game.

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hot cocoa on the couch
Dec 8, 2009

dark ages migration period game when

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