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Bust Rodd posted:The Joker is a really awesome movie with basically perfect politics and has a lot to say about the way we discard and dismiss anyone with mental health issues as trash. Phoenix gives an outstanding performance and if Robert De Niro signs on to play the “villain” (wink) in a movie that is very clearly drawing inspiration and paying homage to two of his own films, one of which is among the top 50 movies ever made according to film critics across the globe... well shouldn’t that be good enough for you? the dance of freedom. the death bells. the rising of the joker. one of the most magnificent, sublime, monumental, extraordinary scenes in cinema history
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May 7, 2021 13:14
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Bust Rodd posted:Anyone who paints The Joker as Fight Club or White Male Rage is basically whatever the movie version of illiterate is... I think we call it “stupid”? This was the projection put into place by mass media outlets and woke-scold leftists who had never seen the film but DESPERATELY wanted it to incite violent shootings. It was among some of the weirdest behavior I’ve ever seen from media in my entire life. They spent months warning people this would cause violence and masa shootings because... I honestly don’t even know! It was so weird and insane! There is literally no way to actually watch the film and accept what is happening on screen and come away with the take you’ve posted. Don't forget how media transformed the 2012 mass shooting nutjob who dressed in tactical gear into "he dressed as Joker and shot people, what if it happens again>?!?!?!?!" This country is weird in that tons of police overtime and millions of dollars is spent securing one movie rollout even though tons of much more violent films are released every year, but we won't fund mental health care or even you know general health care.
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May 7, 2021 13:21
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Could you possibly imagine the response if someone was like "Do we really need a Bruce Willis Deathwish remake where he vigilante murders minorities? Don't we need less movies about white guys executing people they perceive to be criminals extrajudicially?"
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May 7, 2021 13:26
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A lot of critics condemned Joker after it premiered at the Venice Film Festival, particularly critics who were not at the Venice Film Festival.
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May 7, 2021 13:29
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yeah it was like a mass hysteria event where 1,000's of people made up a movie in their head that didn't exist and got mad at it online.
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May 7, 2021 13:33
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live with fruit posted:A lot of critics condemned Joker after it premiered at the Venice Film Festival, particularly critics who were not at the Venice Film Festival. People were creating this white man rage mass shooting scenarios out of a loving trailer and teaser. It was cringy and worse cuz it came from several popular left ppl from twiter.
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May 7, 2021 13:34
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BurritoJustice posted:Sam's ending speech is actually ironic because Disney themselves added unsympathetic violence to delegitimise the flagsmashers otherwise sympathetic leftist ideals No, Disney removed a subplot where the flag-smashers released a pandemic causing virus.
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May 7, 2021 13:36
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The X-man cometh posted:No, Disney removed a subplot where the flag-smashers released a pandemic causing virus. I heard this was debunked.
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May 7, 2021 13:40
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It's fitting that Joker was awarded the Gold Lion by a jury led by Lucrecia Martel, who dragged Marvel after she interviewed for Black Widow.
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May 7, 2021 13:41
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Still on the topic of Flag Smasher, Karli would had been more infinitely interesting if they didn't gender swap her and thus make the cause sympathetic. It's easier to write a Tyler Durden style rebel rouser when you are not trying to draw sympathy to their cause.
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May 7, 2021 13:49
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The X-man cometh posted:No, Disney removed a subplot where the flag-smashers released a pandemic causing virus. Yeah, I know, but I'm just talking about what they stitched together after the fact.
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May 7, 2021 13:57
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gyrobot posted:Still on the topic of Flag Smasher, Karli would had been more infinitely interesting if they didn't gender swap her and thus make the cause sympathetic. It's easier to write a Tyler Durden style rebel rouser when you are not trying to draw sympathy to their cause. Good thing they wanted to make her cause sympathetic then, and it still would be sympathetic with any other actor because the whole point of the show is they are right to feel marginalised and threatened. Them having to use violence is because the GRC refuses to listen to anything else, Sam consistently attempts to listen only to have circumstances and people around him gently caress it up because they are wrong about the Flagsmashers.
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May 7, 2021 14:23
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Lord_Magmar posted:Good thing they wanted to make her cause sympathetic then, and it still would be sympathetic with any other actor because the whole point of the show is they are right to feel marginalised and threatened. Them having to use violence is because the GRC refuses to listen to anything else, Sam consistently attempts to listen only to have circumstances and people around him gently caress it up because they are wrong about the Flagsmashers. A nongenderswapped version of Flag Smasher would have more classic reasons like how he felt like used cog in the Blip Machine to maintain civilization and decides to reject the notion of nations and finds like minded people to join him in his attempt for global anarchy against a system that exploited the labor shortages which would be better commentary on what happens during worldwide disaster because real life convinced me that society picks the worst option as we seen in places like India where land reforms happen around covid, Hong Kong where students fighting for democracy gets the excuse to go for the Jugular thanks to covid
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May 7, 2021 14:40
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The fact that FaWS portrayed almost every character as victims of the status quo in a sense (as well as their endorsement of the flagsmashers' motivations and ideals) left me feeling a little dissapointed that a stern talking to from Sam was the extent of corrective action (aside from the attempted kidnapping of course). I'd have preferred to see the main GRC guy face some sort of actual consequence beyond his brief moments of fearful helplessness, considering how many "regular" people have died while he stays a powerful influential decision maker (who seems downright irritated that he should be expected to consider the needs of the people he's forcefully relocating). That being said, the fact that the "powers that be" are ultimately left safe and intact (even as the various folks neglected by those systems kill each other) is pretty powerful and accurate too. Also, as much as I wanted more from Sam than saving some cops and politicians and giving a speech, I did like his speech. Especially the inevitability of more unrest and violence directed at them (the GRC) if they didnt correct course. Often people I speak with regarding real socioeconomics think I am advocating a violent purge of the wealthiest and most powerful, whereas I simply point to it as an inevitability (in popular sentiment if not action). Desperate marginalized people will do whatever they have to do to survive, and no amount of condemnation will temper the danger of people experiencing desperation and hunger. *edit* Imagine one of the characters faced with say, saving either the GRC head or some rando kid, and letting that dude eat it while giving him a "somebody's gotta make the tough decisions" line as a mirror of power leaving people behind. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 15:39 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 15:32
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I think something to keep in mind is that, at the risk of sounding like a goober fanboy, Marvel/Disney are presenting a new kind of storytelling. While normally once a TV series ended, that was it, all the threads tied up and everything was resolved. With the way that the films and shows intertwine, we will almost certainly see the results (good and bad) from these events down the line.
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May 7, 2021 15:52
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This was a show about symbolism, it wasn’t a show about meaningful systemic change. That’s why Isaiah’s monument is so important, it doesn’t write any of the wrongs, it just allows him to exist and be a symbol to other black men, like Sam.
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May 7, 2021 15:53
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gyrobot posted:Still on the topic of Flag Smasher, Karli would had been more infinitely interesting if they didn't gender swap her and thus make the cause sympathetic. It's easier to write a Tyler Durden style rebel rouser when you are not trying to draw sympathy to their cause. gyrobot posted:A nongenderswapped version of Flag Smasher would have more classic reasons like how he felt like used cog in the Blip Machine to maintain civilization and decides to reject the notion of nations and finds like minded people to join him in his attempt for global anarchy against a system that exploited the labor shortages which would be better commentary on what happens during worldwide disaster because real life convinced me that society picks the worst option as we seen in places like India where land reforms happen around covid, Hong Kong where students fighting for democracy gets the excuse to go for the Jugular thanks to covid I don't see how the character's gender factors into any of this at all, and it's honestly a little weird that you keep framing it in those terms.
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May 7, 2021 15:57
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The implication that somehow men are more dehumanized by society than women in particular is, uh
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May 7, 2021 15:58
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Maybe they're just uncomfortable with being attracted to a super hot villain character and would feel more comfortable if they was just some schlubby dude. (I don't know but as long as we're inventing justifications whole cloth it's fun to make pretend)
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May 7, 2021 16:02
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Casnorf posted:Maybe they're just uncomfortable with being attracted to a super hot villain character and would feel more comfortable if they was just some schlubby dude. There's nothing uncomfortable about my attraction or the attraction of the other HiddleSTANs.
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May 7, 2021 16:16
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Bust Rodd posted:This was a show about symbolism, it wasn’t a show about meaningful systemic change. That’s why Isaiah’s monument is so important, it doesn’t write any of the wrongs, it just allows him to exist and be a symbol to other black men, like Sam. I think this is true and the show's strength, but at the same time I think it's a fair criticism that if you are going to write a grand geopolitical crisis into your plot to serve as the driving force for the conflict between the characters then it should be done in a much less clumsy way than FatWS ended up doing it.
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May 7, 2021 16:37
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I forgive a lot for a six episode disney series having a line like "No self respecting black man would want to be Captain America" and everything in the narrative making you go "He right."
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May 7, 2021 16:39
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Sanguinia posted:Was thinking more along the lines of Renaissance Art than the actual Bible. Yeah it definitely was referencing this. The image was an Angel descending combined with a pieta. It’s explicit not implicit what the place of each of the characters are in the imagery. Karli is where one finds Jesus in the imagery, which implies really interesting things. If they follow up on it and it’s so explicit that I have a hard time thinking they won’t.
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May 7, 2021 16:52
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Bust Rodd posted:This was a show about symbolism, it wasn’t a show about meaningful systemic change. That’s why Isaiah’s monument is so important, it doesn’t write any of the wrongs, it just allows him to exist and be a symbol to other black men, like Sam. Changes in symbolism can break theonomies. And we know there is more story coming. That be a real interesting thing to explore (symbolic change vs material systemic change ).
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May 7, 2021 16:57
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S1 was about getting Sam to accept a Black Captain America. S2 is probably going to be about America accepting a Black Captain America. (Also Bucky and Sarah’s wedding  )
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May 7, 2021 16:59
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Bust Rodd posted:(Also Bucky and Sarah’s wedding I want that just to have Ayo be Bucky's Best Woman.
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May 7, 2021 17:37
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Casnorf posted:Maybe they're just uncomfortable with being attracted to a super hot villain character and would feel more comfortable if they was just some schlubby dude. That's pretty much it, it's easier to write male villains as some cackling psychopath/sociopath who eats babies than a villain.
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May 7, 2021 17:47
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Kwanzaa Quickie posted:I think something to keep in mind is that, at the risk of sounding like a goober fanboy, Marvel/Disney are presenting a new kind of storytelling. While normally once a TV series ended, that was it, all the threads tied up and everything was resolved. Its not really a new kind of storytelling, its the same as the Marvel comics where things have to return to status quo in order to set up the next tale in a world that is sorta like ours. (Yeah the blip never happened in our world, but in this show its meant as a broad parallel for, general mass disaster and social conflict). It means that the only stories where things actually change are elseworlds or outside normal canon deconstruction things. I think that was the original concept for The Authority 'what if superhero's actually did something beyond the bare minimum to restore the status quo?'
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May 7, 2021 17:55
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I guess I phrased that poorly. It certainly isn’t a new type of storytelling, in general. I was mostly thinking about the concerns that there was no visible change after Sam’s speech. Since all of the MCU is basically one really long story now, we’ll probably see some of those results in Cap 4. The story isn’t finished yet.
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May 7, 2021 19:47
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Kwanzaa Quickie posted:I guess I phrased that poorly. It certainly isn’t a new type of storytelling, in general. I was mostly thinking about the concerns that there was no visible change after Sam’s speech. Since all of the MCU is basically one really long story now, we’ll probably see some of those results in Cap 4. The story isn’t finished yet. I'd agree, and go further and say this kind of thing isn't a just a slip-up, or laziness, like people often say; it's intentional. Go back through the thread and search and see how many times people refer to the ending of a series or movie with the phrase "unsatisfying third act". You hear it with literally every Marvel production. It's a stereotype at this point that the movie will be a lot of fun and enjoyable and imaginative, good production values, but then they don't really deliver on everything in the end and don't bother wrapping up all the poo poo they set up. This isn't sloppy writing, they're building a fanbase like it's a soap opera and they've been doing it since Iron Man 1 and it's one of the biggest reasons the MCU has been such an unprecedented success. Like whoever said, they're writing movies and TV shows as not only serials, but a sort of meta-serial of a series of multiple, interlocking serials, in a way that hadn't really been done before in this medium other than like, literal soap operas, and Marvel actually has the experience to understand how to tread that line between satisfying your readers/viewers while leaving them wanting more.
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May 7, 2021 21:57
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massive spider posted:It means that the only stories where things actually change are elseworlds or outside normal canon deconstruction things. I think that was the original concept for The Authority 'what if superhero's actually did something beyond the bare minimum to restore the status quo?' I've never read more than a few chapters of The Authority, but always thought it looked interesting; does it start fairly normal to our world and diverge heavily over the course of the run as things affect the setting then?
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May 7, 2021 23:01
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tsob posted:I've never read more than a few chapters of The Authority, but always thought it looked interesting; does it start fairly normal to our world and diverge heavily over the course of the run as things affect the setting then? Not really. "Superheroes changing the world" was the high concept, but they never did any of that. It basically wound up being a dry run for The Ultimates, as Bryan Hitch was the original artist and Mark Millar took over writing duties from Warren Ellis after the first year.
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May 8, 2021 00:17
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https://twitter.com/Treeofl1fe/status/1390770344429072384?s=19
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May 8, 2021 07:31
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They’re PG-13 mass-market crowd pleasers that are also heavily marketed to kids and families, so I’ve never understood the complaint that MCU films are “neutered” or sexless. What exactly do you expect?
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May 8, 2021 07:51
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They’re PG-13 mass-market crowd pleasers that are also heavily marketed to kids and families, so I’ve never understood the complaint that MCU films are “neutered” or sexless. What exactly do you expect? Just the tip?
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May 8, 2021 07:59
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They’re PG-13 mass-market crowd pleasers that are also heavily marketed to kids and families, so I’ve never understood the complaint that MCU films are “neutered” or sexless. What exactly do you expect? If it weren't for the violence and language, they'd all be G-rated; their characters are so chaste and sexless. e: I guess the first couple Iron Man movies do position Tony Stark as a bona-fied sex haver, but honestly that only makes it stand out more looking back on the evolution of the MCU tbh Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 08:29 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 8, 2021 08:06
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Not gonna lie, an MCU movie directed by Almodovar would be a wild ride
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May 8, 2021 08:17
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There's absolutely nothing stopping Almodóvar from making a superhero movie.
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May 8, 2021 09:30
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Dark Avengers, directed by Gaspar Noe. With opening credits that cannot be viewed by epileptics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNtxgxYY7sI
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May 8, 2021 09:44
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They’re PG-13 mass-market crowd pleasers that are also heavily marketed to kids and families, so I’ve never understood the complaint that MCU films are “neutered” or sexless. What exactly do you expect? These movies/TV shows are marketed towards adults as much as kids if not moreso these days. We also have a few examples of gory superhero movies like Deadpool or Logan or crazy violent TV superhero shows like The Boys The next step is superhero dong in the MCU
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May 8, 2021 09:53
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