Accretionist posted:

Seems like there should angles via hardline non-violence and egalitarianism.

baw posted:

that is a good finding, but land use is just one goal to take into mind. the IPCC concluded that a vegan diet is the best choice for reducing GHGs. of course vegetarian is better than flexitarian, which is better than etc



that being said, human welfare is the priority, but non human animal welfare should also be taken into consideration

Frumply posted:

i've never seen a vegan that could fight a cop so i consider them all to be inherently right wing

Kindest Forums User posted:

Equating abstaining from industrial meat production to liberal classism is the most retarded thing I've heard.

Yeah, like, of course I'm not going to scold some poor person from eating meat. Like how loving stupid are you? But maybe it should be a goal for leftists to stop poo poo like pig farms and chopping up the amazon rain forest in the name of hamburgers.

If you can tell me a way that global communism will be able to feed 9 billion mouths an American diet I'd love to hear it.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

baw posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6zRcXcbdko

baw posted:

i mean that being said, there certainly are a lot of problems in the vegan community and it is very important to critique these problems. but the issue is that non-vegans pointing out those problems is often used as a way to discourage people from adopting a vegan lifestyle, rather than a way to improve the vegan community

Danann posted:

It is supposedly apparent that vegan agricultural systems would not exclude integrated rice-aquaculture and pastoralists and other non-Western agriculture that doesn't destroy the environment like Western agriculture does. Other posters and I are coming in with the impression that vegans don't approve of the aforementioned non-Western agricultural practices. The lack of acknowledgement of such practices on the link in the OP reinforced it for me.

Speaking personally, liberals and non-ML leftists have eagerly adopted Sinophobic rhetoric while simultaneously giving empty platitudes of the harm they are in the process of inflicting to their Asian fellows in recent months. I am on a hair trigger because of this.

That said, this kind of stuff is probably more useful if you're trying to convince the local university agricultural department which is niche nerd stuff with a small audience so if this is more because of the subject being overlooked then it is understandable.

baw posted:

do the fish have to be eaten in order for that rice growing method to work

or i guess in keeping with the definition, is it possible or practical to use the method without killing the fish?

Mayor Dave posted:

Sure, some California rice farmers actually sort of do a version of this where they leave the fields flooded when they're fallow. It's a substitute habitat for migrating birds and other animals that were left without habitat when the central valley was drained and plowed. As far as I know no one tries to harvest the animals that move in in any systematic way (there are of course bird hunters and fishers).

AnimeIsTrash posted:

OP is correct but given the OP's reputation in the greenwald thread I have to say Glenn is right.

smarxist posted:

Oolb posted:

I'm VEGAN! AND! I agree with the OP.

I have been harshly discriminated against my entire life. This is the basis for the choice. I know what it's like to be treated without dignity and to constantly live in fear and pain. And my experience is not even moderately comparable to what farm animals experience.

I don't know how anyone in good conscience can be treated so brutally, and then turn around and do the exact same thing to another creature. Non-vegan leftists totally shatter my faith in humanity. When presented with the hard evidence of untold amounts of suffering we put animals through, the response never recognizes the severity of the moral crisis, but is instead a lot like a drug-addict trying to rationalize their addiction.

Calling me privileged. Get the gently caress out of here. I'm poor as gently caress and so low socially its insane. It's honestly loving disgusting how often I see social-justice type language repurposed to justify atrocities.

If nothing matters, if you aren't willing to take ANY steps to fight this problem, then why not just indulge in what you obviously believe deep down? This is why the right will win, and is winning: because they have an actual philosophy. A brutal, anti-egalitarian one built on the most primitive parts of the human brain, but one which is cohesive - as opposed to the one most so-called leftists have, which is that exact same philosophy but, where it is shameful, some flimsy adjustments.

baw posted:

of course we go with the vegan society's definition which includes the phrase "as far as is possible and practicable," but if you call yourself a leftist and you're not a vegan you're a massive shitocrite who only selectively cares about the suffering of both human and non-human animals

Larry Parrish posted:

this post retroactively proves you deserved life's hardships

Oolb posted:

I'm VEGAN! AND! I agree with the OP.

I have been harshly discriminated against my entire life. This is the basis for the choice. I know what it's like to be treated without dignity and to constantly live in fear and pain. And my experience is not even moderately comparable to what farm animals experience.

I don't know how anyone in good conscience can be treated so brutally, and then turn around and do the exact same thing to another creature. Non-vegan leftists totally shatter my faith in humanity. When presented with the hard evidence of untold amounts of suffering we put animals through, the response never recognizes the severity of the moral crisis, but is instead a lot like a drug-addict trying to rationalize their addiction.

Calling me privileged. Get the gently caress out of here. I'm poor as gently caress and so low socially its insane. It's honestly loving disgusting how often I see social-justice type language repurposed to justify atrocities.

If nothing matters, if you aren't willing to take ANY steps to fight this problem, then why not just indulge in what you obviously believe deep down? This is why the right will win, and is winning: because they have an actual philosophy. A brutal, anti-egalitarian one built on the most primitive parts of the human brain, but one which is cohesive - as opposed to the one most so-called leftists have, which is that exact same philosophy but, where it is shameful, some flimsy adjustments.

Control Volume posted:

I dislike how all the ethical arguments for veganism are just ethical arguments for vegetarianism. No one ever talks about why the concept of eating unfertilized eggs is ethically abhorrent, even though it would be really interesting and probably funny to watch

Larry Parrish posted:

imagine how gross someone's cooking would be if they were trying to make American food but vegan lol. Oh yum a burger made out of that fake chicken stuff.

baw posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6zRcXcbdko

HORROR OF GEESE posted:

They seem mostly harmless, but the conditions required to produce fairly and eggs can be pretty intense. Obviously there are smaller farms that treat their animals pretty well, but the large scale dairy and egg industries can get extremely hosed up. Dairy farming requires cows to be continually getting pregnant and giving birth so they'll produce milk. Boy cows get turned into veal. Chickens get treated pretty terribly even if what you end up eating is an unfertilized egg.

Some folks I know are basically vegan but will eat eggs from a friend's chickens. Sometimes the issue isn't even necessarily that it comes from animals but that there is a massive industry of exploitation and torture exacted upon millions and millions of creatures.

I've seen people write about chickens missing their eggs/young, and cows mourning slaughtered relatives, but I don't know how true those accounts are.

HORROR OF GEESE posted:

They seem mostly harmless, but the conditions required to produce fairly and eggs can be pretty intense. Obviously there are smaller farms that treat their animals pretty well, but the large scale dairy and egg industries can get extremely hosed up. Dairy farming requires cows to be continually getting pregnant and giving birth so they'll produce milk. Boy cows get turned into veal. Chickens get treated pretty terribly even if what you end up eating is an unfertilized egg.

Some folks I know are basically vegan but will eat eggs from a friend's chickens. Sometimes the issue isn't even necessarily that it comes from animals but that there is a massive industry of exploitation and torture exacted upon millions and millions of creatures.

I've seen people write about chickens missing their eggs/young, and cows mourning slaughtered relatives, but I don't know how true those accounts are.