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Okay I’m glad I wasn’t the only one smelling burnt toast while reading that post, then. human garbage bag posted:You see an elephant fighting a honey badger. Your instincts tell you the elephant should be able to kill the honey badger easily. But it doesn't for some reason, it just kind of pushes the badger around and maybe picks it up with its trunk and throws it lightly. And the badger keeps trying to attack the elephant. Certainly the elephant would eventually get pissed off and just kill the badger, right? But you've been observing them fight for weeks, and the elephant still hasn't killed the badger. You’re walking through the desert. You see a tortoise on its back. But you don’t help it. Why don’t you help it?
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May 12, 2021 21:05
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human garbage bag posted:What about the current ethnic conflict nearby in ethiopia? The one with videos of soldiers summarily executing POWs with a bullet to the back of the head. And civilians taking refuge in churches being massacred. U.S. isn't forcing my country to treat Ethiopia like a democracy.
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May 12, 2021 21:05
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seems tonights pogrom might be a real turning point https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1392567353804795905
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May 12, 2021 21:06
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It's nice that regardless of how awful things get here that I can find the absolute dumbest debates about it on these forums. I'm serious, I need all the distraction I can get in order to not kill myself. E: ^^^^^^ yep I'm saying that for over a decade, when you keep feeding your hateful propaganda to the masses you make violence inevitable. By popular demand fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 21:08
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Is there a good breakdown of Israeli security cracking down at Al Aqsa. It's hard to find any new articles with a clear story.
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May 12, 2021 21:09
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punishedkissinger posted:Israel is really restraining themselves by only destroying several blocks at a time in Gaza. If they wanted to they could probably kill every single Palestinian in a matter of weeks. It's because of this restraint that people hate Israel. But they don't for some reason. And it's not because they feel bad for the Palestinians. They don't because they don't want to lose support of all the countries they have good relations with. And thus we arrive full circle, and see that it is actually our aid and support of Israel that prevents them from destroying Gaza. If we take that away, there would be no more reason for the elephant to hold back.
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May 12, 2021 21:10
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Vasukhani posted::nsfw: And in a dramatic twist it's now being reported that this guy wasn't even an Arab, but an Israeli mistaken for one... Elias_Maluco posted:edit: beaten 
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May 12, 2021 21:10
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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human garbage bag posted:But they don't for some reason. And it's not because they feel bad for the Palestinians. They don't because they don't want to lose support of all the countries they have good relations with. I imagine this post as spoken by Zorg from The Fifth Element
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May 12, 2021 21:12
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human garbage bag posted:But they don't for some reason. And it's not because they feel bad for the Palestinians. They don't because they don't want to lose support of all the countries they have good relations with. This is an incredibly stupid take in a thread known for stupid takes. A lot of people care about I/P because a lot of people have personal stakes in it due to their religion/ethnicity/family. Not to mention there's a fair amount of Israelis itt. Israel can't sustain itself without foreign aid to actual sanctions would destroy the country. Israel not receiving anymore aid would also be accompanied by prosecutions for war criminals and hopefully aid/defence of Palestinians - none of which is likely to happen, unfortunately. PittTheElder posted:And in a dramatic twist it's now being reported that this guy wasn't even an Arab, but an Israeli mistaken for one... That happened last "war" as well iirc, there was a mizrahi jew that got lynched because some guys thought he was an Arab.
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May 12, 2021 21:14
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hi that dumbfuck has been probated, please lets get back on track
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May 12, 2021 21:17
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It's loving ridiculous to live in a world where pasty loving cultural cosplayers are killing actual Middle Eastern Jews due to rocket attacks caused by their fascist criminal leader bombing Palestinians so he can stay in office. These people are goddamn morons on top of being delusional racist colonizers.
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May 12, 2021 22:30
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Tekne posted:It's loving ridiculous to live in a world where pasty loving cultural cosplayers are killing actual Middle Eastern Jews due to rocket attacks caused by their fascist criminal leader bombing Palestinians so he can stay in office. These people are goddamn morons on top of being delusional racist colonizers. All the while American officials top to bottom on both sides defend their literal acts of thuggery and the media writes sob tweets about harassment on twitter. It was nice seeing pushback on this poo poo from Corbyn in the UK, and AOC here. Joe Biden's officials and his own recent statement is absolutely embarrassing on this issue. https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1392559121396768775?s=20 Nonsense fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 22:32
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I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special.
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May 12, 2021 22:38
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Grondoth posted:I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special. They're the only democracy in the Middle East. The same blood flows through our veins. e: but really, also they sell arms to other nations to compete against the US. lol https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-07/israeli-company-elbit-systems-of-australia-removed-army/100121238 quote:[Australian] Military sources have told the ABC that Defence believes the Elbit technology may compromise sensitive data, triggering a directive that it "not be configured or accessed" on certain Army systems. guidoanselmi fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 22:43
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Grondoth posted:I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special. The only objective, non-garbage excuse I can think of is it would cause a lot of unease with the US' other allies if they dropped support for Israel (like they should). Which is still a pretty piss poor excuse cause the last 4 years have been loaded with that very same unease anyways.
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May 12, 2021 22:44
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I think it's reasonable to presume that Biden is absolutely terrified of what it would do to his moderate caucus a chunk of which is maintained by evangelicals. Going into what is going to be a messy midterm/general due to the rights slavish devotion to Trump who was unapologetically a bibi sycophant. This absolutely seems like a "wait and see" and hedging bets that'll they'll just let this blow over and everyone will be amnesiac about it by that time. Though I was raised evangelical and am a Jewish convert so I might be a bit biased in how much weight the evangelicals have in the US.
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May 12, 2021 23:00
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jiffypop45 posted:I think it's reasonable to presume that Biden is absolutely terrified of what it would do to his moderate caucus a chunk of which is maintained by evangelicals. Going into what is going to be a messy midterm/general due to the rights slavish devotion to Trump who was unapologetically a bibi sycophant. This absolutely seems like a "wait and see" and hedging bets that'll they'll just let this blow over and everyone will be amnesiac about it by that time. Though I was raised evangelical and am a Jewish convert so I might be a bit biased in how much weight the evangelicals have in the US. it breaks down by race a lot more. white evangelicals went 81% for Trump. other groups are more of a mixed bag.
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May 12, 2021 23:03
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Yeah citation needed on bidens evangelical voting bloc. Evangelicals are wholeheartedly Republicans.
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May 12, 2021 23:25
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 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/11/how-biden-swung-the-religious-vote-435954 Trump’s slippage with white evangelicals was less pronounced — surveys showed him carrying 76 percent to 78 percent of the white, born-again Christian vote — a slight decrease from 2016, when he won support from about 8 in 10 white evangelicals. But it had far-reaching implications for the president in states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia, where current vote totals show him losing by less than 1 percent. It made the difference in some key swing states. Even if Trump does carry them massively.
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May 12, 2021 23:36
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Grondoth posted:I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special. It's more about what you don't get, and that's a very well connected and well organized pro-Israeli lobby working against your party's candidates during elections. Your guy also won't get called Weak for allowing The Only Democracy in the Middle East to get pushed around. If that seems largely nonsensical that's because it is, but that's no impediment to it continuing. See further: the Cuban blockade, the Vietnam war, the war in Afghanistan...
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May 12, 2021 23:45
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Grondoth posted:I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special. If we're doing a realpolitik angle - what benefit would the US gain by flipping to support of Palestine or taking a meaningful position beyond a 'some settlements aren't legal' boilerplate statement? (Because it's the right thing to do is not a suitable answer) I really struggle to picture what that policy shift would look like even if we poof away the domestic/electoral hurdles it would pose for any administration. The gulf/Arab countries already happily work with the west (and don't genuinely give a poo poo about Palestinians either except where saber rattling looks good domestically). It isn't just or correct but at least from where we sit in 2021, Palestinians will probably always be consigned to their cage & a slow but relatively palatable eradication in the west bank.
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May 12, 2021 23:55
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Grondoth posted:I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special. I don't really have anything to back up this theory, but I think a lot of it comes down to cultural reasons. The experiences of Israelis are very familiar to countries with a history of imperialism, while the experiences of Palestinians are quite familiar with groups that have been the victims of colonial policies and imperial interventions. There are few things that threaten Western sensibilities more than the idea of the victims of imperialism striking back not just at the troops sent to attack them, but also at the comfortable peaceful lives of the state that sent those troops. After roughly two decades of American wars in the Middle East all sparked by one terrorist attack, it shouldn't be any surprise that American discourse is heavily sympathetic to Israel's insistence that Palestinians did a terrorism and so there is simply no choice but to level half the city. France, Britain, the US...they're all very familiar with doing the same kinds of poo poo themselves, with a friendly media happily whitewashing the deeds for a patriotic populace to defend.
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May 13, 2021 00:44
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Even if most democrats in Federal elected office weren't supporters of liberal Zionism, just look at what happened to Jeremy Corbyn, or what gets said about Ilhan Omar or Tlaib when they push back against the prevalent narrative
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May 13, 2021 01:19
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How are u posted:Yeah citation needed on bidens evangelical voting bloc. Hell, Biden didn't even get many Republicans period. Biden supports Israel because he wants to.
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May 13, 2021 01:27
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There was a huge and very loud rally in support of Palestine this evening in Calgary. And if you aren't familiar with the political leanings of this city, let's just say it's pretty significant evidence that the narrative in North America regarding Israel is shifting and it's doing it loving fast. This is a very conservative region of the country.
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May 13, 2021 02:31
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Also for those in the same generation of Biden I'd expect there's a lot of built in popular support for Israel on the basis of them being on the American team and the Arabs being on the Soviet team for the latter half of the Cold War.
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May 13, 2021 02:32
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rscott posted:Even if most democrats in Federal elected office weren't supporters of liberal Zionism, just look at what happened to Jeremy Corbyn, or what gets said about Ilhan Omar or Tlaib when they push back against the prevalent narrative Equating criticism of Israel with criticism of Judaism was an extremely effective tactic that no person acting in good faith would have allowed to happen. To this day I have no idea how the idea was allowed to propagate or why it's just so uncritically reported on that way.
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May 13, 2021 02:42
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Grondoth posted:I understand the evangelical angle for the US' non-stop support for Israel, but I don't understand anything else. Israel's undermined our negotiations with Iran, gives our poo poo to China, is constantly spying on us and trying to infiltrate our computer systems, has attacked us before, and just generally is not nearly as good of a friend to us as we are to them, even setting aside the constant covering for apartheid. What are we getting out of this? Sure, we sell them weapons, but we sell everyone weapons so it's nothing special. Voters don't give a poo poo about Muslims or actively hate them, so there's no benefit careerwise for standing up for Palestinian rights but there is risk, on the other hand AIPAC is a powerful lobbying group which has carrots and sticks to offer, so the path of least resistance for American politicians is to always defend Israel no matter what they do. With the exception of reps from a few districts that have a lot of Muslims in them. It's not great for America, but most of what our cowardly power-hungry politicians do is bad for the country but good for their careers. It's pretty rare that the interests of politicians as individuals and the interests of the country and the people align. Israelis should be familiar with this phenomenon, given what Bibi is doing right now to stay in power.
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May 13, 2021 04:37
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Orthanc6 posted:The only objective, non-garbage excuse I can think of is it would cause a lot of unease with the US' other allies if they dropped support for Israel (like they should). Which is still a pretty piss poor excuse cause the last 4 years have been loaded with that very same unease anyways. 
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May 13, 2021 04:47
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Yeah idk, trying to tie US policy in support of Israel as being in any way a reflection of the preferences of the American electorate is just a complete misunderstanding of how any of this poo poo works. There's no threat being levied by "the voters" here or whatever, none of that matters The actual constituencies that politicians are acting in response to are that of donors, lobbyists, and the natsec industry. It is a job of the political class to then sell those policies to the public(to the extent they even really need to these days, which isn't much). People who hold passively Zionist views are just going to repeat things they've been handed down by their preferred political set if you were to ask them about it
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May 13, 2021 04:59
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Another night of leveling every building in the country that stands more than 3 stories. I believe this is a targeted effort to reduce the height of gaza. If the buildings are no more than 3-5 stories tall it's much easier to secure than buildings that could host 10 levels of sniper or MG or rocket nests. The US is now complicit in this uptick of the conflict (hahaha dont tell me they have been since day one I know.) in a way that will most likely fuel Bibi just running a new election to re-set the table for his majority. Now, For the claims that Hamas isn't targeting meaningful targets. https://twitter.com/i/status/1392551799144415232 quote:Russia has spoken with Hamas, hamas is willing to stop the conflict. Remember israel denied this a day ago when Egypt was transmitting messages from Palestine to israel. quote:Israel has informed countries, including Egypt, of its refusal to stop the raids on Gaza https://twitter.com/i/status/1392540345607544833 WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 06:14 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 06:06
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I think that the popular opinion in Israel right now has swung hard to the right, Netanyahu can't accept a cease fire. Hamas' improved rocket barrage capabilities are basically seen as a shift in the status quo, scoring direct hits on Tel-Aviv and firing hundreds of rockets in the span of minutes is a new thing, the Israeli population is terrified.
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May 13, 2021 06:37
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IDF Invasion of Gaza imminent: https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1392709900434911233?s=20 
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May 13, 2021 06:38
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They replaced "invasion" with "operation": https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1392717316635471876
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May 13, 2021 06:50
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That's the handywork of the IDF censor for certain.
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May 13, 2021 06:53
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Cugel the Clever posted:They replaced "invasion" with "operation": To be fair operation is probably correct. You can’t invade somewhere you already occupy, it’s more just an operation to conduct war crimes in the occupied territory.
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May 13, 2021 07:09
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Every single move brings us closer to an actual civil war. I regret referring to Bibi as a "low effort Nixon', Bibi is nowhere as competent nor as caring.
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May 13, 2021 07:16
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team overhead smash posted:To be fair operation is probably correct. You can’t invade somewhere you already occupy, it’s more just an operation to conduct war crimes in the occupied territory. I know little about past ground ops, but I get the impression its more of a counter insurgenct style thing. There isn't any organized regular force that can resist, is there?
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May 13, 2021 07:24
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Vasukhani posted:I know little about past ground ops, but I get the impression its more of a counter insurgenct style thing. There isn't any organized regular force that can resist, is there? There is and it will be extremely bloody for both sides. The last time this happened (Protective Edge) 67 Israelis and over 2000 Gazans died.
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May 13, 2021 10:43
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Is there any other historical precedent for a country facing unrest, downright race riots, and a zombie government deciding that the best course of action is a ground invasion of a nearby city? It's not like Israel is a stranger to breaking ceasefire agreements, you'd think one would get their ducks in a row before this. The improved rockets must have really jostled them. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 11:25 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 11:22
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