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Skwirl posted:Morrowind was the first RPG with a huge modding community (Doom was probably the first major modding game and Quake the first 3d one) and some people never left. I think the question is why all this new animation stuff is happening now, and not 15 years ago when the modding community had more eyes on the problem. Did someone have to first solve N=NP to add in slav squatting?
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May 12, 2021 22:25
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GreatGreen posted:You guys between the animations breakthrough and sound effects breakthrough I am getting kind of... hyped... for a game that came out 20 years ago. What. Asterite34 posted:I think the question is why all this new animation stuff is happening now, and not 15 years ago when the modding community had more eyes on the problem. Did someone have to first solve N=NP to add in slav squatting? many years later nullcascade appeared and happened to love morrowind, know a lot of cpp and lua and reverse engineering, and be willing to work thousands of hours for free. at this point the sol project which is used to create lua bindings for cpp was pretty mature and most of the work consisted of translating all of the existing MWSE functions from mwscript bindings to lua. morrowind animations are very aids to work with. all of the base animations are in a singular file, so any additions or changes to that are incompatible, unless you had someone willing to make an entire set of them and combine them into one addon. also, morrowind animations require blender 2.49 which is like 10 years out of date at this point. around a similar time nullcascade showed up, greatness7 started working on some more animation tools to assist with this kind of thing. the only problem is making animations still sucks. in the past week or so greatness7 found https://www.mixamo.com/ which was made by adobe and has thousands of free licenced animations, so he wrote some blender code to import/export morrowind models into it. this prompted nullcascade and hrnchamd (mgexe / mcp / mwse dev) to write some bindings to force animations from an individual file. tl;dr why didnt this happen earlier - you need a handful of people with very specific knowledge willing to work for nothing GorfZaplen posted:I hate whatever graphics stuff is going in here, makes the game look like a dime a dozen steam survival game instead of atmospheric
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May 12, 2021 23:03
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For what its worth I hand animated those animations I posted. Idk how to use that mixamo thing lol
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May 12, 2021 23:21
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finally, h2h will become truely powerful https://i.imgur.com/eRrMp7u.gifv
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May 13, 2021 00:20
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SniperWoreConverse posted:finally, h2h will become truely powerful If someone adds that and the dragon uppercut I might actually beat the main quest.
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May 13, 2021 01:15
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For you it was the day the Tribunal betrayed you and became gods. For me, it was Tuesday.
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May 13, 2021 01:21
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Skwirl posted:If someone adds that and the dragon uppercut I might actually beat the main quest. there's a shitload of takedowns and blocks and stuff too, it'd be neat to switch h2h from merely does stamina damage to more of a way to manage a fight and manipulate it in different ways. It'd also be insanely difficult to pull off, probably. Or you could at least do a takedown instead of the guy just falls over. Probably would be pretty difficult to make it look natural with a rat or something. With some of those block animations you might be able to do stuff like actually block an attack and redirect the damage to gauntlets similar to how shield works. The interesting thing is making NPCs be able to do this kind of thing too. It would change up the way some npc jobs like (off the top of my head) slave: it doesn't have any weapons as a major or minor, but it does have block and hand to hand.
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May 13, 2021 03:59
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So I got to watching an LP of this and it made me want to play it again. I have the graphics and code patches from the OP as well as morrowind rebirth, but specifically are there any mods that just remove the horrible creaking noises from dwemer ruins? They drive me mental listening to the same sound clip over and over again.
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May 13, 2021 04:42
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Orv posted:For you it was the day the Tribunal betrayed you and became gods. For me, it was Tuesday. This post right here deserves a lot of love!
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May 13, 2021 05:53
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Skwirl posted:
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May 13, 2021 08:00
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Have you seen the stuff people put out with e.g. GZDoom? It's unrecognisable as the same game Are there other games, particularly older ones, that still have an incredibly active modding community, other than Doom II and Morrowind? We all know Skyrim does, but I'm looking at games older than that.
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May 13, 2021 08:17
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San Andreas maybe? 2004.
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May 13, 2021 08:23
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I'm surprised the NWN community died off. I wonder if it fractured after 2 came out, then everyone realised 2's construction set was incredibly difficult to work with and wouldn't sustain a community, and it never really recovered long term. Or maybe it was just easier for a lot of the bigger modders to just make their own indie RPGs once accessible engines and crowdfunding took off
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May 13, 2021 08:40
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Vavrek posted:So I actually did this, finally, last November. Sorry for not mentioning it earlier.  Yeah, there are a bunch of broken scripts - a lot of them are just things I abandoned or found better (working) ways of doing them but there's definitely stuff that only sometimes fires. I am/was a bad workman so don't want to blame my tools too much, but I can say that the Morrowind dialogue system is very fragile when used to fire off scripts, give multiple choices etc. At one point I redid half the dialogue scripting because every multiple choice section was only giving me the first/top option, then I realised that was happening to my entire game, but maybe that was also a result of something I did? But yeah, in retrospect making the mod was probably how I discovered I had no talent for scripting/programming whatsoever and that put the brakes on any vague computing/game design career I had in mind. I would say that was for the best but I became a lawyer instead so it definitely wasn't.
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May 13, 2021 11:49
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Node posted:Are there other games, particularly older ones, that still have an incredibly active modding community, other than Doom II and Morrowind? People are still making mods and fan games based on Fallout 2 (1998). There is an attempt to create Van Buren in FO2 engine currently in the works.
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May 13, 2021 12:17
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There are still people making HL1 mods out there though they aren't as prolific as they used to be obviously.
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May 13, 2021 12:19
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Have you seen the stuff people put out with e.g. GZDoom? It's unrecognisable as the same game people remaking zombies ate my neighbors in doom is genius https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poKDBeT_fCM re: old games with modding communities, civ 4 is another huge one, nwn1 is still fairly big given its age too
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May 13, 2021 15:45
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Yeah. There is a cool baldurs gate-esque series of mods for NWN 1 called Swordflight. The latest bestest chapter was released a year ago.
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May 13, 2021 15:54
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but of course the decline of modded UO servers proves that video games are not true art
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May 13, 2021 15:57
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I'm surprised the NWN community died off. I wonder if it fractured after 2 came out, then everyone realised 2's construction set was incredibly difficult to work with and wouldn't sustain a community, and it never really recovered long term. Or maybe it was just easier for a lot of the bigger modders to just make their own indie RPGs once accessible engines and crowdfunding took off People are still doing stuff, a lot of it is asset creation though. They've done some wild stuff with the engine as well, like importing entire dark souls levels or the entirety of Megaton from Fallout 3. The Enhanced Edition has added tons of stuff for mod creators too so that brought a lot of people back.
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May 13, 2021 16:02
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Node posted:Are there other games, particularly older ones, that still have an incredibly active modding community, other than Doom II and Morrowind?
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May 13, 2021 16:32
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GorfZaplen posted:People are still doing stuff, a lot of it is asset creation though. They've done some wild stuff with the engine as well, like importing entire dark souls levels or the entirety of Megaton from Fallout 3. The Enhanced Edition has added tons of stuff for mod creators too so that brought a lot of people back. lmao badass. I wonder if we'll finally get the third almraiven mod one day...
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May 13, 2021 16:41
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Simcity 4 modding is still pretty active too.
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May 13, 2021 16:51
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It's funny because game executives often think (idiotically) that they shouldn't permit their games to be modded because what if nobody plays the next one because this moddable one stays relevant for a long time! Gotta build in that planned obsolescence! Or what if somebody mods in boobs and moms everywhere demand to speak with the manager of video games. Mods equating to a negative effect on revenue has never really happened. Effectively nobody who liked and heavily modded Morrowind skipped buying Oblivion because Morrowind was still relevant, and nobody skipped out on Skyrim either despite at least two of the previous games in the series allowing mods. The "only" thing I can really tell that modding accomplishes for developers is keeping a series relevant in the hearts and minds of tons of gamers, who will themselves spread the word about how great the series to other people is because they've been able to put together their perfect, idealized, personalized version of the game. You can't buy that kind of marketing. Basically, games executives who lock down on modding games for fear of their precious vision being ruined or future sales being negatively effected, or fear of some possibly latent "hot coffee" fiasco are leaving tons of money on the table, both now and in the future. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 16:53
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There's very little "locking down modding" TBH. Even Rockstar, who wants to, failed to lock down GTA 5. It's more that modern games are incredibly complex, and built around workflows involving licensed tools that can't just be handed out to modders. TES games have an enormous amount of tech debt that is largely due to sticking with an incredibly old and lovely workflow. I hope against hope that TES6 and Starfield are built on entirely new technology, even if that means no formal modding support. Obviously Bethesda would still gently caress things up to the moon and back, but it'd probably be much less bad without the absolute shitshow of a foundation they built for Morrowind still underpinning everything.
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May 13, 2021 17:43
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There was that magical late 90s/early 2000s period where games were complex enough to do all sorts of interesting things but simple enough that anyone with some motivation could learn to mod them. The skill required to just model a new demon to add to something like Doom Eternal locks out 95% of the people who would be making mods in the Half-Life era.
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May 13, 2021 17:51
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K8.0 posted:There's very little "locking down modding" TBH. Even Rockstar, who wants to, failed to lock down GTA 5. It's more that modern games are incredibly complex, and built around workflows involving licensed tools that can't just be handed out to modders. TES games have an enormous amount of tech debt that is largely due to sticking with an incredibly old and lovely workflow. I hope against hope that TES6 and Starfield are built on entirely new technology, even if that means no formal modding support. Obviously Bethesda would still gently caress things up to the moon and back, but it'd probably be much less bad without the absolute shitshow of a foundation they built for Morrowind still underpinning everything. I believe they already announced that Starfield will be based on their existing Gamebryo tooling/workflow 
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May 13, 2021 17:52
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Voice acting is the worst thing to happen to rpgs. One-man team quest mods, let alone something like TR couldnt be made if every line needed to be voiced. The number of skyrim quest mods pales in comparison to the number for morrowind despite having 100x the modders
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May 13, 2021 17:53
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Agreed. Not every game should be voice acted. Also I think it detracts a ton from immersion. I still to this day love the way that asking NPCs about news/rumors works in Morrowind, something that simply can't be done as well with voice acting. Random NPCs in Morrowind feel much more real than in modern RPGs, because they're much more similar to the rest of the characters. I dislike voice acting for another reason as well : combined with quest markers, it seems to have made drudging through self-indulgent wankery writing much worse. Yes, I could outright skip all the badly-written dialogue, but that really detracts from the immersion factor and why bother playing a game with mediocre mechanics at that point?
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May 13, 2021 18:11
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Strongly agree; there's no voice acting in Shadowrun: Dragonfall, or Hong Kong, and it's to their credit; those AA titles wouldn't have nearly the same content if they'd tried to voice it.
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May 13, 2021 18:47
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I think limited voice acting of some key lines/scenes and some audio barks is fine, best when normalized with plenty of unspoken text.
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May 13, 2021 18:55
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That's true, a few voiced lines can establish a, well, voice for the larger body of text.
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May 13, 2021 19:06
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Morrowind gets it exactly right, I think. I can still hear everything in Caius' voice and every Caius meme brings his voice to mind. Same with Dagoth Ur and many others. Not to mention just the general NPC barks living in my head rent free.
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May 13, 2021 19:08
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Jack B Nimble posted:That's true, a few voiced lines can establish a, well, voice for the larger body of text. Baldur's Gate II is an excellent example of this, just when I've 'lost' a particular voice a voiced line tends to pop up.
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May 13, 2021 19:16
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:Voice acting is the worst thing to happen to rpgs. One-man team quest mods, let alone something like TR couldnt be made if every line needed to be voiced. The number of skyrim quest mods pales in comparison to the number for morrowind despite having 100x the modders I’m really hoping something like what the modders did with this Witcher 3 mods becomes easily accessible. Bethesda’s insistence on using the same 5 voice actors for every character might actually be beneficial in generating a good training set. https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=nBrQgG1O-3g&feature=emb_title
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May 13, 2021 23:35
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I'm surprised the NWN community died off. I wonder if it fractured after 2 came out, then everyone realised 2's construction set was incredibly difficult to work with and wouldn't sustain a community, and it never really recovered long term. Or maybe it was just easier for a lot of the bigger modders to just make their own indie RPGs once accessible engines and crowdfunding took off There's still people making NWN mods. Baldur's Gate also still has an active modding community, neither are as big as Doom or Morrowind or Skyrim, but they exist.
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May 13, 2021 23:49
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:Voice acting is the worst thing to happen to rpgs. One-man team quest mods, let alone something like TR couldnt be made if every line needed to be voiced. The number of skyrim quest mods pales in comparison to the number for morrowind despite having 100x the modders Agree with this. Also that Morrowind got it right with everybody being able to utter one of a handful of short phrases and grunts, but the vast majority of the information transfer happening without recorded voice work. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 00:56 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 00:53
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Perfection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHjxFpQ3ZYI
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May 14, 2021 00:58
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ho fan posted:I’m really hoping something like what the modders did with this Witcher 3 mods becomes easily accessible. Bethesda’s insistence on using the same 5 voice actors for every character might actually be beneficial in generating a good training set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpCR0Urs8Z4
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May 14, 2021 00:59
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:Voice acting is the worst thing to happen to rpgs. One-man team quest mods, let alone something like TR couldnt be made if every line needed to be voiced. The number of skyrim quest mods pales in comparison to the number for morrowind despite having 100x the modders Given the sheer quantity of dialogue in these games it's also often a better experience to read most of it. The writing in Disco Elysium is book-quality most of the time but having it read out to you for the entire game would be grating. I haven't played the final cut yet but I hope there's an option to turn most of the added voice acting off. Oblivion is the poster child for really overextending yourself relative to your casting and vocal direction but even games like Mass Effect struggle with this. Sure the main plot is cinematic and engaging, but is the exposition dump from vendor #242 that's technically fully voiced (with procedurally generated camera angles and the 'hand rubbing back of neck animation used 10 times) adding that much to the game? I think with the resurgence of the PC as a platform this is changing - not for any elitist reason, just because this type of game is much nicer to play using a screen and peripherals that are primarily designed for reading and manipulating text.
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May 14, 2021 14:04
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