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am I a dialectic in realizing that I would not fight in the revolution because most outcomes lead to situations where I am dead and when I think of being dead I get a pain in my chest because I have attachment to the mortal for the and my wife. would have been good for the meat grinder before I met my wife. now I work to accrue capital because I want her to have a nice life with me and if I possibly die. brining a kid into this plain of existence is a tall ask, but that would def have me hoarding capital.
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May 14, 2021 06:39
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Ferrinus posted:the beginning of capital can be confusing because marx tells you that "1 wool coat = 20 yards of linen" is a different statement than "20 yards of linen = 1 wool coat". in a footnote he mentions that he's using the equal sign to represent the statement "is worth" or "costs", but if you don't notice that and think he's just doing algebra it's very strange did we read the same book, dipshit?
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May 14, 2021 06:40
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Lostconfused posted:So then dialectics is just a thing everyone does already but philosophers made up a word for it to make themselves seem important? no liberals by and large can’t think dialectically, they see poo poo like senate norms and believe with all of their being that they represent some kind of eternal truth.
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May 14, 2021 06:44
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would the thread enjoy a book report style recap of my chapter readings? I don't think I will have any particularly new analysis, but I am the grandson of a woman who escaped Batista's Cuba by being caretaker to a rich families kids that definitely colored her opinion on Castro but I don't really get to know how because she has late stage Alzheimers and is non-verbal.. Then pops side is Dominicans from el campo. Definitely had a long path to be able to accept reading Marx. after arriving very quickly that the liberal ideology was completely trash. but not that the resistance to it via conservatism was also incredibly wrong. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 06:52
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KidDynamite posted:would the thread enjoy a book report style recap of my chapter readings? I don't think I will have any particularly new analysis, but I am the grandson of a woman who escaped Batista's Cuba by being caretaker to a rich families kids that definitely colored her opinion on Castro but I don't really get to know how because she has late stage Alzheimers and is non-verbal.. Then pops side is Dominicans from el campo. Definitely had a long path to be able to accept reading Marx. after arriving very quickly that the liberal ideology was completely trash. but not that the resistance to it via conservatism was also incredibly wrong. anything would be better than reading more dumb poo poo about the word police so yeah lets hear it (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 06:59
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Ferrinus posted:changes in absolute magnitude can differ from changes in proportion what the gently caress does this mean. e: oh I was thinking "absolute magnitude" in the astronomical sense. never mind (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) indigi fucked around with this message at 07:13 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 07:08
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KidDynamite posted:am I a dialectic in realizing that I would not fight in the revolution because most outcomes lead to situations where I am dead and when I think of being dead I get a pain in my chest because I have attachment to the mortal for the and my wife. would have been good for the meat grinder before I met my wife. now I work to accrue capital because I want her to have a nice life with me and if I possibly die. brining a kid into this plain of existence is a tall ask, but that would def have me hoarding capital. you are a goon. the odds of you being found medically fit to serve in the revolutionary army are nil (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 07:19
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Raskolnikov38 posted:you are a goon. the odds of you being found medically fit to serve in the revolutionary army are nil *lifts up drooping shorts and nods* yeah m8
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May 14, 2021 07:31
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Larry Parrish posted:did we read the same book, dipshit? i'm sure we did, but you've repeatedly attested that you have trouble with long readings indigi posted:what the gently caress does this mean. if 5:2 becomes 6:1, then even though the absolute changes are +1 and -1, the relative changes are +20% and -50%
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May 14, 2021 07:36
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https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1393021863421530114?s=20 not even kautsky made it this easy to be dunked on
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May 14, 2021 07:46
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lmfao
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May 14, 2021 07:50
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May 14, 2021 07:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_9zH9Q44o
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May 14, 2021 08:00
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Ferrinus posted:i'm sure we did, but you've repeatedly attested that you have trouble with long readings yeah I just thought for a second Marx was discussing the brightness of stars (referred to as absolute magnitude) and didn’t know why on Earth he’d be doing that (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 08:01
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Centrist Committee posted:no liberals by and large can’t think dialectically, they see poo poo like senate norms and believe with all of their being that they represent some kind of eternal truth. Most people don't think about objects in terms of their relations either. A dialectical thinker looks at a commodity and is aware of all the interactions & labor that brought it before them, but for most people those relations are concealed behind an abstraction like "the market."
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May 14, 2021 08:05
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May 14, 2021 08:07
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we're all friends here, so cut it out (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 08:08
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Finicums Wake posted:so, how about that communism thing, huh? imo it's good but we need to pass through a socialist stage first not quite. an advanced ai (i.e. skynet) could wipe us out, then bring us back from extinction directly into communism.
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May 14, 2021 08:15
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Homeless Friend posted:not quite. an advanced ai (i.e. skynet) could wipe us out, then bring us back from extinction directly into communism. The robots from The Matrix were doing communism. Wrap it up, Leninailures. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 08:33
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Larry Parrish posted:there's a reason people think philosophy degrees are a joke The reason is because people should only learn marketable skills under capitalism instead of learning anything else. Like 99% jokes about philosophy degrees are "have fun finding a job lol". You should follow the example of Marx, writing about your posting enemies, drinking and getting Engels to give you money. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 09:27
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Junkozeyne posted:You should follow the example of Marx, writing about your posting enemies, (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 09:40
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I just read the Manifesto for the first time last week and am starting on Capital now. From my reading of the Manifesto, I suspect I’m going to get mad about the number of dull posts and lovely lib arguments I’ve seen and heard that are pretty well addressed in the work. It certainly is interesting how very much of what I’ve seen argued in favor of leftism is directly derived from Marx. I can’t say it imparted any new revelations upon me beyond that. A question to the thread: a quote by Lenin is fairly frequently bandied about that Socialists are unable to expose the bourgeoisie of another nation they are at war with. Do you feel that Lenin would suppose we are at war with other nations in this culture/exploitation cold war we find ourselves in? I believe he would not beyond the class war that all nations’ peoples are united in, knowingly or not. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 10:05
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I got something to expose to the bourgeoisie RIGHT HERE [grabs crotch]
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May 14, 2021 10:12
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ASAPRockySituation posted:A question to the thread: a quote by Lenin is fairly frequently bandied about that Socialists are unable to expose the bourgeoisie of another nation they are at war with. Do you feel that Lenin would suppose we are at war with other nations in this culture/exploitation cold war we find ourselves in? I believe he would not beyond the class war that all nations’ peoples are united in, knowingly or not. Lenin's point is that "exposing the bourgeoisie of another country" amounts to little more than "imperialist intrigue." It doesn't matter if you expose the corrupt dealings of a foreign bourgeois because it does not serve the overthrow of your own bourgeois dictatorship, and it only serves to make the foreign bourgeois seem an enemy to your own people - which serves the imperialist ambitions of your own national bourgeois. Lenin would have noticed just how much self-identified Leftists seem to be obsessed way more with Chinese billionaires than attacking their own. Being a real internationalist means attacking your own bourgeois as part of a process of decolonization and anti-imperialism, not attacking a foreign bourgeois in a country where you have no political power. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 10:33 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 10:19
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ASAPRockySituation posted:I just read the Manifesto for the first time last week and am starting on Capital now. From my reading of the Manifesto, I suspect I’m going to get mad about the number of dull posts and lovely lib arguments I’ve seen and heard that are pretty well addressed in the work. It certainly is interesting how very much of what I’ve seen argued in favor of leftism is directly derived from Marx. I can’t say it imparted any new revelations upon me beyond that. what (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 10:29
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THS posted:what He's talking about this https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/dec/25.htm
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May 14, 2021 10:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Lenin's point is that "exposing the bourgeoisie of another country" amounts to little more than "imperialist intrigue." It doesn't matter if you expose the corrupt dealings of a foreign bourgeois because it does not serve the overthrow of your own bourgeois dictatorship, and it only serves to make the foreign bourgeois seem an enemy to your own people - which serves the imperialist ambitions of your own national bourgeois. Lenin would have noticed just how much self-identified Leftists seem to be obsessed way more with Chinese billionaires than attacking their own. this. if you've ever wondered why i largely refuse to even discuss china this is why. even without getting in to how there's basically nobody who isn't in the sphere of the bourgeois or a literal spook doing any reporting on china, at the end of the day its just not worth discussing because at best its a distraction and at worst it just empowers our actual enemy, which is the rich people here.
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May 14, 2021 10:49
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That sounds a lot like Chomsky saying that he's a critic of American policy and politics more than any other country because he's not a citizen of that other country and therefore wouldn't be able or be entitled to enact change there anyway.
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May 14, 2021 10:52
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r
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May 14, 2021 11:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Lenin's point is that "exposing the bourgeoisie of another country" amounts to little more than "imperialist intrigue." It doesn't matter if you expose the corrupt dealings of a foreign bourgeois because it does not serve the overthrow of your own bourgeois dictatorship, and it only serves to make the foreign bourgeois seem an enemy to your own people - which serves the imperialist ambitions of your own national bourgeois. Lenin would have noticed just how much self-identified Leftists seem to be obsessed way more with Chinese billionaires than attacking their own. I appreciate this answer as it well describes the feeling of the quote, though I wonder if agitation towards more proletariat power in a foreign nation through exposure wouldn’t be warring against local western imperialist hegemony in its own way. Certainly the US and Soviets thought so, at the least in terms of access to resources, else Vietnam et al wouldn’t have played out as it did, yeah? Say there is a crime by a large bourgeois group in a nation that, upon exposure, leads the people to stir against them. The instability may help the western merchant now, but another leftist nation would hurt them in the long run simply from a trade perspective. I admit I’m struggling to think of an exposure that would fit this scenario but I can imagine an exposure helping local movements gain ground. Diqnol fucked around with this message at 11:54 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 11:46
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ASAPRockySituation posted:I appreciate this answer as it well describes the feeling of the quote, though I wonder if agitation towards more proletariat power in a foreign nation through exposure wouldn’t be warring against local western imperialist hegemony in its own way. Certainly the US and Soviets thought so, at the least in terms of access to resources, else Vietnam et al wouldn’t have played out as it did, yeah? The Soviets could do this because they already had a proletarian dictatorship. The liberation struggle in Vietnam was also a direct anti-imperialist struggle and not just a struggle against their own national bourgeois for class liberation. The proletarian government of North Vietnam already existed, and the only thing stopping it from liberating the country was France and the United States.
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May 14, 2021 11:49
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trapped in the sphere of the bourgeois, send help
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May 14, 2021 11:59
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May 14, 2021 12:07
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Soviets could do this because they already had a proletarian dictatorship. The liberation struggle in Vietnam was also a direct anti-imperialist struggle and not just a struggle against their own national bourgeois for class liberation. The proletarian government of North Vietnam already existed, and the only thing stopping it from liberating the country was France and the United States. Perhaps this is a better example: Would it have been useful for the North Vietnamese advisors to expose the fledgling Khmer Rouge of their potential danger if given power after the advisors were expelled, in a way, by the French? Perhaps this exposure could have prevented traction of that Cambodian communist faction and helped them develop more healthily. I do not imply those advisors knew, of course; I am merely pushing the Lenin quote. e: hmm, I realize after a bit of thought that they would not have been Bourgeois at that point so it wouldn’t apply. Like I said earlier, hard to conceive, but possible! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Diqnol fucked around with this message at 12:27 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 12:17
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lol @ wearing a shirt in the pool (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 13:46
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Zodium posted:trapped in the sphere of the bourgeois, send help sorry, the sphere of the bourgeois is an artifact and can only be destroyed in the following ways... (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 13:49
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jarofpiss posted:lol @ wearing a shirt in the pool Glenn's right
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May 14, 2021 13:53
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jarofpiss posted:lol @ wearing a shirt in the pool god help fancy lad if the sun touches his torso (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 13:54
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Hodgepodge posted:sorry, the sphere of the bourgeois is an artifact and can only be destroyed in the following ways... an artifact that may only be destroyed through the collective action of a whole class of people rather than the adventurism of a pack of heroes, an interesting idea (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 13:54
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nice titties nathan (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 14, 2021 14:03
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