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Charliegrs posted:What I find interesting is how the Arab countries that have recently established diplomatic ties with Israel seem to be completely silent about this latest flare up of violence. Like isn't one of the reasons why countries have diplomatic relations so that formal complaints can be made when one side is doing something horrendous? Nah. No two countries are going to go to the trouble of signing agreements for the privilege of being able to complain to each other. Issuing formal complaints is a minor byproduct of having diplomatic relations, not a cause for it.
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May 14, 2021 02:34
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Charliegrs posted:What I find interesting is how the Arab countries that have recently established diplomatic ties with Israel seem to be completely silent about this latest flare up of violence. Like isn't one of the reasons why countries have diplomatic relations so that formal complaints can be made when one side is doing something horrendous? Those country's do not care about the Palestinians anymore.
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May 14, 2021 02:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:A lot of countries that don’t love Israel also don’t really love hamas. They want Palestine but don’t specifically see hamas as the legitimate government so don’t really like bad treatment of West Bank but would like Gaza retaken back by the Palestinian authority. The problem with this is that Hamas is the legitimate authority in the Palestinian territories, having won a majority in the most recent PA legislative elections. The current Fatah-led administration in the West Bank is illegal and unconstitutional, the result of a civil war caused by Fatah's unwillingness to facilitate a peaceful transfer of power and enthusiastically egged on by the US and Israel. I think the reason is far simpler - after a generation or two of the current status quo, the political elites in these countries no longer care enough about the Palestinian struggle to turn down the economic benefits of buddying up with Israel and the US. However, their populace still cares enough to start protesting and making a ruckus when escalations in violence make the news, so the political elites have to bow to public opinion when that happens. As a result, they greatly prefer Fatah's collaborationist government that keeps things quiet and out of the regional news.
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May 14, 2021 03:01
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One of the sad histories about the Palestinian people is how lovely they have been treated by Israel and the surrounding countries. Feel free to look up the relationship between the PLO and Jordan for example. The entire region pretty much saw them as trading pieces instead of actual people.
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May 14, 2021 03:02
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Madkal posted:One of the sad histories about the Palestinian people is how lovely they have been treated by Israel and the surrounding countries. Feel free to look up the relationship between the PLO and Jordan for example. The entire region pretty much saw them as trading pieces instead of actual people. to be fair, my understanding is that jordanian rule was much, much better for palestinians than the current status quo
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May 14, 2021 03:16
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Sampatrick posted:to be fair, my understanding is that jordanian rule was much, much better for palestinians than the current status quo You do realize how low a bar youre setting.
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May 14, 2021 03:24
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Chuka Umana posted:Those country's do not care about the Palestinians anymore. Pan arab sentiment has certainly diminished a bit from its heyday, but the palestinian people remain popular and the utterly cowardly appeasement from the rulers of much of the arab world to Israel over their treatment remains one of the great generationally acknowledged injustices throughout the Arab world. Unfortunately several countries leadership have become significantly more entrenched in power and even less representative of their actual people so even less need is felt now to acknowledge that injustice. I think the biggest shift is in how utterly unsolvable (barring something much more extreme than the one or two state solutions) it all seems in the current state of affairs. Still, the injustice thrust upon the palestinians remains a fuckin huge deal in the arab world.
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May 14, 2021 03:26
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Sampatrick posted:to be fair, my understanding is that jordanian rule was much, much better for palestinians than the current status quo Depends when you look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September?wprov=sfla1 Then again I don't think Jordan appreciated the PLO trying to assassinate their king Edit: they were generally pretty good towards the Palestinians at first, mostly fearing an independent West Bank but that soured soon. Madkal fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 03:29
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Chuka Umana posted:Those country's do not care about the Palestinians anymore. The absolute monarchies ruling Saudi Arabia & the UAE do not care about the Palestinians, correct, just as they do not care about anyone else in the world aside from their immediate families.
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May 14, 2021 04:18
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More than 500 Palestinians have been injured by the continued bombings. At least 20 high capacity buildings have been leveled. Gaza is being reduced in height day by day, Much easier to project an occupation over an area that doesn't have a building over 3 stories standing as guard towers can be towering over them. Especially with the Israeli tech sector. Expect gun turrets on 100Ft towers to be scanning the Gaza strip and terminating anyone who the Israelis deem a threat The right wing groups are yelling for the expulsion of Palestinians into the gaza strip only. Which would basically turn the strip into a massive disease vector with a huge population density and zero facilities to support anything. We're loving seeing it. Israel's casualties in this measure in what, like 3 dead? This is a completely calculated move especially since Bibi can actually bomb his political enemies and blame palestine for it. Seriously. Thats the bargaining chips he's playing with. The IDF/Mossad have infiltrated many of these groups and know their movements in and out of Israel. THis is loving nuts, and it kicked off in such a rapid way. A Pro-Israel person asked me this question a few minutes ago, thinking I would be strawmanned out of my statement that Israel is going full blut and boden "Does ISrael have a cult of state and a culture revolving solely around the power of the army/police?" WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 05:19
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:We're loving seeing it. Israel's casualties in this measure in what, like 3 dead? This is a completely calculated move especially since Bibi can actually bomb his political enemies and blame palestine for it. Seriously. Thats the bargaining chips he's playing with. The IDF/Mossad have infiltrated many of these groups and know their movements in and out of Israel. Current numbers as per NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/violence-between-israel-hamas-shows-no-sign-slowing-n1267055 is 65 Palestinians dead, 300 injured, 6 Israelis dead, 200 injured.
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May 14, 2021 05:29
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Epicurius posted:Current numbers as per NBC News Old news. In Gaza: the death toll rose to 103, including 27 children and 11 women, and 580 injuries were recorded 
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May 14, 2021 05:56
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punishedkissinger posted:There still doesn't seem to be a clear excuse for why Israel stormed a mosque filled with hundreds of people during ramadan. Cui Bono? Did Bibi just ensue his PM role?
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May 14, 2021 07:14
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Sinteres posted:(and Netanyahu is both inherently a nationalist and utterly beholden to people even more extreme than he is to maintain power), Bibi isn't being forced into anything here by anyone more extreme than he is, he's just as extreme as Ben Gvir in his opinions and is doing this willingly. The only difference is that Bibi is willing to do it on a slower time scale over decades and idiots like Ben Gvir need as much bloodshed as soon as possible for their throne of blood & bones. Their ideology is the same.
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May 14, 2021 09:12
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There's a really excellent documentary on the link between evangelicals and the settler movement on the BBC at the moment. So depressing seeing them meet some Palestinian Christians and just not caring. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rgnz
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May 14, 2021 11:24
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I can barely bring myself to watching anything to do with settlers. There is something vile and disgusting on a fundamental level about a group of people who dedicate their lives and whole existence to causing the misery of others.
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May 14, 2021 11:29
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Flayer posted:I can barely bring myself to watching anything to do with settlers. There is something vile and disgusting on a fundamental level about a group of people who dedicate their lives and whole existence to causing the misery of others. There are honestly few movements as overtly and openly dedicated into loving someone over. It takes extra effort, when they could just live in Haifa or something.
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May 14, 2021 11:37
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Jesus Christ: https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120 IBroughttheFunk fucked around with this message at 14:27 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 14:25
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Oh look Lebensraum.
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May 14, 2021 14:30
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I wish I could say that was surprising, but I've seen American Jews say similar poo poo. loving awful.
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May 14, 2021 14:40
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CommieGIR posted:Oh look Lebensraum.
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May 14, 2021 14:44
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They're just so casual about their goddamn horrifying beliefs.
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May 14, 2021 14:52
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IBroughttheFunk posted:They're just so casual about their goddamn horrifying beliefs. Why wouldn't they be? They've captured the minds of the chattering 'moderate' types. The politically unconscious kind of think the violence should stop but that Israel has got to do what it's got to do. At this point if they wiped out every Palestinian man, women and child they'd consider it a tragedy but not a crime. Just something that happened.
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May 14, 2021 14:56
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IBroughttheFunk posted:They're just so casual about their goddamn horrifying beliefs. Nobody's calling them on it. See: Trump supporters. Though you know, the horrifying beliefs probably are a majority in Israel. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:22 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 15:19
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Pigeons are kind of pretty and soft and trained ones make good pets. Wild pigeons poop everywhere and hoot at 3 in the morning, they gotta go. It's sad, but it has to be done.
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May 14, 2021 15:25
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Preen Dog posted:Pigeons are kind of pretty and soft and trained ones make good pets. Wild pigeons feed birds of prey, leave em be.
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May 14, 2021 15:57
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Preen Dog posted:Pigeons are kind of pretty and soft and trained ones make good pets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxFfxTZA6ao&t=29s
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May 14, 2021 16:28
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A client saw my last name and congratulated me on Israel "getting rid o the Arabs". Solid stuff.
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May 14, 2021 16:40
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My boss (not directly) expressed the opinion that Israel should bomb the Palestinians back into the Stone Age. Cool and good. Yay.
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May 14, 2021 16:50
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:A client saw my last name and congratulated me on Israel "getting rid o the Arabs".
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May 14, 2021 16:51
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https://twitter.com/lawblaw2020/status/1393238344910483457
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May 14, 2021 17:20
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:A client saw my last name and congratulated me on Israel "getting rid o the Arabs". God loving dammit.
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May 14, 2021 17:20
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I mean, the tweet is clearly not a random wine review, it's clearly a pretty reasonable "jewish people and muslim people are fighting where I am, last week I was in a muslim majority area of israel and everyone was nice and friendly and i bought this wine, so I'm going to use this wine in a prayer. I wish muslims and jews here were like the ones in the area I bought this in" Like it's not super deep or anything, but it's not like he stopped posting about fighting to just randomly talk up a random wine.
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May 14, 2021 19:23
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Something I’ve been wondering from a historical perspective since the violence has flared up again. How comparable is Hamas to the IRA/Shin Fein? I know very little of the history of the occupation outside the immediate lead up to the creation of the Israeli state post-WWI.
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May 14, 2021 20:10
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AlternateNu posted:Something I’ve been wondering from a historical perspective since the violence has flared up again. How comparable is Hamas to the IRA/Shin Fein? I know very little of the history of the occupation outside the immediate lead up to the creation of the Israeli state post-WWI. I'd be interested in this as well if there is any direct comparison.
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May 14, 2021 20:29
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Hello, I've somewhat off topic and maybe philosophical question regarding the ethics and morality of visiting Israel (or any apartheid state) and would like some opinions if you care enough. I've two good Israeli friends living in Tel'Aviv, and they are very anti-zionist and hate the IDF, and condemn Israel's treatment of Palestine. We've talked about it a lot. For a couple of years now we've talked about me flying over to Tel'Aviv and visiting them to hang out, eat burgers and do fun friend stuff. But I have this underlying discomfort that visiting Israel is unethical or morally questionable. But is it really as one dimensional and morally wrong if I have good intentions of visiting like minded anti-nationalist friends? I am very uncomfortable and not smart regarding such matters.
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May 14, 2021 20:33
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Is there a timeline of the events leading to this latest disaster? Because if what I think happened, Bibi ordering security forces to attack worshippers in a mosque, he can sod right off. He's the one benefitting from all of this.
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May 14, 2021 20:42
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The Real Amethyst posted:
It really depends on how ethically pure you want to be with where some of your tourist dollars invariably end up. Plenty of tourists still flock to Burma, China, Saudi Arabia and other states that are at least repressive dictatorships if not enthusiastically pursuing mass repression & ethnic cleansing. (If you really want to get purestrain about it, we can argue anyone paying tax in the United States is also tacitly funding wars etc and morally should move or avoid employment). It's a personal decision ultimately - but no one off the internet will care.
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May 14, 2021 20:42
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The Real Amethyst posted:Hello, I've somewhat off topic and maybe philosophical question regarding the ethics and morality of visiting Israel (or any apartheid state) and would like some opinions if you care enough. You should visit your friends, especially if they are counter-culture types. Just stay safe, and do so when things have settled. I'd view it as supporting people who are against this sort of thing.
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May 14, 2021 20:42
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double post don't know how that happened. sorry
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May 14, 2021 20:53
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