|
Wanted to make sure the IDF didn't find a Hamas weapons cache in their building.
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 23:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:13 |
|
|
maffew buildings posted:If there is no kingdom of Israel then the rapture doesn't happen. If that's what you're referring to but I may be misreading. Let me conclude by saying gently caress Evangelicals Let's not forget that the subtext of the right wing's support for israel is "btw all jews should go there if they know what's good for them"
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 00:02
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1393707042771283969 demon cracker nation
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
Voted for Joe in 2020 to oust Trump, which I still think was the right decision, but I can't in good conscience support anyone from the administration in 2024 if they don't do a hard 180 right the gently caress now.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:09
|
|
|
boop the snoot posted:I don’t know what Israel did to get the US so far up their rear end but why not just call it a US terror cell at this point because that’s what it looks like to me? It's a very complex topic, but imo the most important thing to recognize is that this isn't some centuries or millennia-old conflict with grudges dating back to biblical times. Everything relevant essentially happened in the 20th Century, mostly around the end of the World Wars and the Cold War period. Brief timeline*: 1900s-1910s: Zionism (the idea of founding a new country by jews for jews to unify the diaspora and escape rampant anti-semitism in Europe) slowly becomes a thing. Founding the country in the then-Ottoman territory of Palestine becomes the preferred, though not the only potential option. Unsurprisingly, these proposals are deeply unpopular with the people already living there. 1910s: The Great War breaks out, with Britain and France on one side and the Ottoman Empire on the other. The gradual collapse of the dying empire (long referred to as "the sick man of europe") is hastened by the war, with various nationalist movements rising up in different parts of the empire with British and French support (if you've heard of Lawrence of Arabia, this is where/when he's running around). One of the groups the British promise to support is the zionist movement with the Balfour Declaration, though Britain and France are already plotting to divide the Ottoman holdings with the secret Sykes-Picot Treaty. 1920s-1930s: In the aftermath of the Great War, Britain and France set up new governments in the now-countries of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Jordan, with Palestine being administered by Britain under a special League of Nations mandate. (If you've heard of the King of Jordan, this is when that royal house got established. Iraq got a king too, but he didn't last that long). The Zionist movement begins in earnest, with many Jews emigrating to Palestine, which unsurprisingly causes tensions with the locals! A three-way insurgency breaks out, with extremist Zionists on one side attempting to throw off British rule to establish Israel, Palestinians on the other trying to throw off British rule, put an end to the Zionist movement, and establish their own country, and the British caught in-between still trying to honor the Balfour Declaration while also trying to (sort of) accomodate the Palestinians through policies like limiting Jewish immigration, which of course serves to piss off the Zionists even more. ~it's a shitshow~ 1940s: World War II happens. As you may recall, this was a very bad time to be a Jew in Europe! After the war, support for a Jewish state grows even more considering... recent events, and postwar Britain is increasingly incapable of keeping a lid on the brewing civil war. Eventually, the UN proposes the creation of two states, but it's too little, too late—Britain throws up its hands and leaves, the Zionists declare the new nation of Israel, and successfully defeat the immediate invasion attempt by their Arab neighbors (BIG CAVEAT HERE: the motivations of the various Arab nations were complex, and didn't just boil down "let's kill the jews." Most notably, Emir Abdullah of Transjordan was seeking to grab as much Palestinian territory as possible to incorporate into his own newborn state, and didn't even bother pushing into the Israeli-claimed areas). In the aftermath, the former Palestinian Mandate is divided into three: Israel, Gaza (Administered by Egypt) and the West Bank (Controlled by Jordan). As a result of the war, the vast majority of Palestinians living in Israeli territory are forced out (Either from fleeing the conflict or being directly evicted by Israeli forces), and end up living in refugee camps in the West Bank. After the war, the UN passes a resolution stating these refugees have the Right to Return to their former homes. This is promptly ignored. 1950s: Israel continues to fight with its neighbors, most notably during the 1956 Suez Crisis, in which Britain and France, attempted to halt the nationalization of the Suez Canal via an Israeli invasion of the Sinai. In a rare joint tag-team effort by the US and USSR, Britain, France, and Israel are effectively told to "gently caress off or else," and Israel retreats back within its own territory. 1960s: Many Arab nations, particularly Egypt and Syria, are caught up in the Pan-Arab movement lead by Gamal Abdel Nasser. Though Nasser proclaimed himself to be part of the non-aligned movement, Cold War "with us or against us" politics leads the US to begin backing Israel more strongly, as Nasser receives financial and military support from the Soviet Union. Nasser repeatedly threatens war with Israel (Though how much he actually wanted war and how much he was saying it to rile up popular support is ~debated~), and in 1967 Israel decides to strike first. The UAR (the brief combo of Egypt and Syria into a single country) and Jordan are wrecked, and Israel ends up controlling the Sinai peninsula, the Golan Heights, Gaza, and the West Bank—which comes with it the crucial prize of Jerusalem. Unfortunately for Palestinian refugees still clinging to the hope of regaining their land and homes, this is not a positive development. 1970s: 1973 sees the Yom Kippur War. Unlike previous conflicts, in which the various Arab armies got their poo poo stomped, Egyptian and Syrian forces manage to initially take the Israelis by surprise and make impressive territorial gains. Though the Israelis are ultimately able to get the upper hand, their success and survival is a near-run thing—an experience that ultimately leads to the Camp David Accords under the Carter Administration, in which Israel and Egypt are able to negotiate a peace and normalize relations. As a provision for the deal, the US begins supplying both Israel and Egypt with defense aid, a process which continues to this day—and also served to wrench Egypt free of the Soviet sphere of influence. 1980s-90s: Through decades of occupation, many Palestinians began resolving to do everything they could to liberate Palestine themselves, forming the Palestine Liberation Organization. They begin an insurgent campaign against Israel, which leads first to the Israeli invasion of southern Lebanon in 1982, and then later in the 80s with a massive series of protests, riots, and insurgent actions that are eventually labeled the Intifada. This eventually leads some in the Israeli government to begin considering peace talks, and for the first time actual, serious discussions begin between the PLO and the Israeli government. This results in the Oslo Accords, which sees a number of developments—including PLO recognition of Israel and self-government in the form of the Palestinian Authority being established. HOWEVER, the accords leave out a number of key issues (Including any commitment to a true Palestinian state), and many Palestinians resent the Accords. The accords are also resented by the Israeli far right, and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin is assassinated shortly after the accords are signed by an Israeli extremist. 2000s-Today: Things have generally not improved. Another wave of protest and violence called the Second Intifada broke out in the early 2000s, followed by an all-out war in Gaza. Israeli settlement of the West Bank has accelerated under the long-standing right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, and the majority of Palestinians now live in an increasingly restrictive police state, with almost no real freedom of movement. And it certainly doesn't look like it's getting better any time soon. If the timeline above makes it seem like I'm sympathetic to the Palestinians, it's because obviously I am. They've lived under armed occupation for well over a century now (And even further than that if you consider the Ottomans an occupying power, which many Palestinians did), with any hope for an independent Palestine getting crushed at almost every turn—first by the British, then the Jordanians, and Israel through it all. And while a relative handful deciding to shoot rockets at Israel isn't great, it also shouldn't come as any surprise that many occupied people with no hope for a political future feel they have no options but violence. On the other hand, it's also hard to completely demonize Israel and the concept of Zionism. The dream came about because of real violence and oppression in Europe during the early 20th century, and the horrific events of World War II and the Holocaust served as a stark reminder of what could happen if they didn't form a state for themselves that could protect them. But, of course, from very start the dream turned into a twisted reflection of itself with the expulsion of Palestinian Arabs, and much of Israel's conduct towards its occupied territories since then (And especially over the past twenty years) has been sickening. What's the solution to this problem? gently caress if I know! But as a major backer of Israel (Partly for political reasons, and partly through treaty obligations from the Camp David Accords), the United States carries with it at least some culpability for its conduct—and its long past time we use our leverage to at least try to get them to stop being such loving monsters. edit: this timeline is by no means comprehensive. there's a ton of stuff I missed, might have also gotten some stuff wrong. I took multiple courses on this back in college and poo poo is Complicated. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 01:15 on May 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:12
|
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:Voted for Joe in 2020 to oust Trump, which I still think was the right decision, but I can't in good conscience support anyone from the administration in 2024 if they don't do a hard 180 right the gently caress now. The conversation is shifting pretty quickly. The tweet below that Biden tweet is the current Democratic position - more or less both sides-ism. That's an improvement from where things were in the past, which is the current Republican position, of "gently caress the Palestinians, they're all terrorists." The linked tweet alone makes it seem like the administration's position is gently caress the Palestinians, when it's currently both sides-ism. Neither is great, of course. At the very start, Israel decided to provoke and do war crimes, which led to Hamas war crimes, which is leading to Israel war criming harder because they're more capable of war criming harder. The harder war criming is making it harder for the fully-captured American government to simply throw it aside as "Israel is just bombing Hamas nbd". The second tweet, for reference: quote:The White House @WhiteHouse Of course, Abbas doesn't control poo poo. facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:17
|
|
|
Yeah, I can't see how this is anything but a continuation of the exact same rhetoric Democrats have used for decades while looking the other way while Israel commits ethnic cleansing and hammers nail after nail into the coffin of an equitable peace. There are more and more Dem reps speaking out against the occupation and the American role in it, which is awesome and I can very much see the party flipping its position in the next two decades. But Joe is holding that back and Palestinian civilians are suffering for it. There are a lot of hard policy challenges the US faces. Cutting off $3.8 billion in military aid to an ethnonationalist state that spits in the face of international law and basic human decency is not one of them.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:1950s: Israel continues to fight with its neighbors, most notably during the 1956 Suez Crisis, in which Britain and France, attempted to halt the nationalization of the Suez Canal via an Israeli invasion of the Sinai. In a rare joint tag-team effort by the US and USSR, Britain, France, and Israel are effectively told to "gently caress off or else," and Israel retreats back within its own territory. Worth adding that this was preplanned by Israel, France, and Britain. It had been agreed that Britain and France would step in and “restore peace” in a way that consolidated Israeli gains. It was very transparently corrupt and that’s how the opposing superpowers end up on the same side, denouncing it.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:36
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:1900s-1910s: Zionism (the idea of founding a new country by jews for jews to unify the diaspora and escape rampant anti-semitism in Europe) slowly becomes a thing. Founding the country in the then-Ottoman territory of Palestine becomes the preferred, though not the only potential option. Unsurprisingly, these proposals are deeply unpopular with the people already living there.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:41
|
|
|
maybe there is a shift in US approach since more reps are speaking out, maybe the DNC decides to go harder trying to primary and speak out publicly against said reps. only time will tell
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:42
|
|
|
america is still blockading yemen and creating a humanitarian crisis there as well and that gets barely any mention anymore
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:45
|
|
|
yeah, we ARE a great ally
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:49
|
|
|
Robert Facepalmer posted:What were the other areas being considered? There were a whole bunch of ideas that were proposed from time to time, most notably in Uganda.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:50
|
|
|
Love your work, Acebuckeye.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Worth adding that this was preplanned by Israel, France, and Britain. It had been agreed that Britain and France would step in and “restore peace” in a way that consolidated Israeli gains. I’ve read Dulles actually wanted them to succeed but wanted to not push the entire Middle East into the Soviet’s sphere of influence. An astronomical failure of foreign policy if true b
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
Hot Karl Marx posted:america is still blockading yemen and creating a humanitarian crisis there as well and that gets barely any mention anymore https://www.vox.com/2021/4/14/22381459/yemen-blockade-saudi-arabia-biden-cnn This blockade?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 02:58
|
|
|
Grip it and rip it posted:https://www.vox.com/2021/4/14/22381459/yemen-blockade-saudi-arabia-biden-cnn yeah I'm sure the government is telling the truth this time quote:While reporting on the letter Democrats sent to Biden, I asked the State Department for comment, as the agency’s special envoy for Yemen, Tim Lenderking, is leading America’s diplomatic response to the crisis. and why is america even involved in a civil war in the middle east?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
Hot Karl Marx posted:yeah I'm sure the government is telling the truth this time Because if we don't keep the Saudis propped up, Iran becomes the regional power.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:26
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1393691936192712707?s=21
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:39
|
|
|
I remember the  in the Israeli press back in 2014 when Obama did the apparently brazenly anti-Semitic act of preventing US airliners from flying into Ben-Gurion because some Hamas rockets landed near there.TBF I don’t trust the Biden administration itself to put any pressure whatsoever on Israel, but I do trust the leftward flank of the Democratic Party to try and do so. At least until the DNC primaries them.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:45
|
|
|
Godholio posted:Because if we don't keep the Saudis propped up, Iran becomes the regional power. I can't tell if this is ironic or not
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:48
|
|
|
Old Jeanine going on about Jimmy Carter's america w/r/t gas lines. It's nice to see how far we've come that women can be just as trashy ghouls as their male counterparts
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:49
|
|
|
pantslesswithwolves posted:TBF I don’t trust the Biden administration itself to put any pressure whatsoever on Israel, but I do trust the leftward flank of the Democratic Party to try and do so. At least until the DNC primaries them. The inverse is likely more true on primaries - the state/local parties are more lefty than the overall party lately. There's a particular case where the head of the NV Democrats released a pro-palestinian statement (basically "hey, Israel is bombing civilians"), then immediately got pushback from the Democratic NV Senator and the Anti-Defamation League. Three tweet-thread here tracking that stuff: https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/1393304958481485825 I still think that the DNC has little to no power. If they did, Berniecrats wouldn't have taken over the NV Democratic Party like they did a while back.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:There were a whole bunch of ideas that were proposed from time to time, most notably in Uganda. I remember reading about the Madagascar plan, I still don't know how serious the nazis were about that.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 04:42
|
|
|
pantslesswithwolves posted:I remember the Don’t forget Nancy scolding Ilhan Omar for the anti Semitic “too many American politicians are too happy to take money from AIPAC and work against America’s best interests”
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:03
|
|
|
Hot Karl Marx posted:I can't tell if this is ironic or not It's our policy, whether it's grounded in reality or not.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:03
|
|
|
.
Blind Rasputin fucked around with this message at 07:47 on May 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:44
|
|
|
Blind Rasputin posted:The first coriolis space station to be built by humanity should be given to the Jewish people. They can have their Zionism in space. Palestine can be Palestine again. This would probably fix the world. :|
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:46
|
|
|
Blind Rasputin posted:The first coriolis space station to be built by humanity should be given to the Jewish people. They can have their Zionism in space. Palestine can be Palestine again. This would probably fix the world. Nah, it's gotta go to the mormons for maximum chance of Expanse timeline
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:52
|
|
|
We're always making such a big deal about how those bad Muslims in Afghanistan won't let girls go to school. Considering this, it's ironic that we've decided Iran, a country whose universities and parliament are full of women, is the one Muslim country in the region we can never be friends with. Almost as if we don't actually care about women's rights...
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:53
|
|
|
facialimpediment posted:The inverse is likely more true on primaries - the state/local parties are more lefty than the overall party lately. There's a particular case where the head of the NV Democrats released a pro-palestinian statement (basically "hey, Israel is bombing civilians"), then immediately got pushback from the Democratic NV Senator and the Anti-Defamation League. Three tweet-thread here tracking that stuff: Don't forget that the old guard all quit when the DSA dems won. I'm honestly impressed. Nevada continues to be a lot more progressive than I would have ever given it credit for, and I've lived here for 30+ years.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 05:55
|
|
|
Everything outside of Clark and Washoe are exactly what you think they are.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 06:14
|
|
|
Rather than creating one more state based off an ethnoreligious identity, the states involved should have taken a stand against the scourge of anti-Semitism everywhere, affirming that Jews (and all others) are welcome in their countries. The decision makers at the time were too racist for that, but great strides have been made since, despite the insistence from supremacists in Israel that it's the only safe place in the world for the Jewish people. The only way forward is to keep up the fight against anti-Semitism at home at the same time as Israel is forced to abandon its campaign of ethnic cleansing.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 06:42
|
|
|
Am I the only one who read that line as a subtle criticism while avoiding censor actions? "Support IDF Soldiers who do everything to keep us all in these tough days". Not "keep us all safe". Just "keep us here".
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:22
|
|
|
SerthVarnee posted:Am I the only one who read that line as a subtle criticism while avoiding censor actions?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:28
|
|
|
Blah. Oh well its was nice to think someone there had at least a shred of decency and was trying to show in subtle ways.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:41
|
|
|
I didn't know where else to put this, so I am going to put it here. I don't talk a lot in here but I read everything you guys say, every post. When HBO did The Pacific, at about the same time there was a book released called "Voices of the Pacific" and I recently re-read this. The book was kind of a tie-in, I guess. It's all these Marines who were interviewed who served there, and it's broken down chronologically, where the first several stories are people talking about what they did before the war, then people talking about boot camp, etc. Then people talking about their experiences at Guadalcanal, then Gloucester, Bougainville, Tarawa and Peleliu etc., and finally them talking about their lives after the war. Anyway, there was one part that I have always remembered. The guy talking here was at an infantryman at Peleliu, which I think tells you all you need to know about what he experienced. It's not a testament to how much "harder" people were then or anything like that, it's just an interesting look at the culture of the times. quote:After the war, I never talked about the war to anybody. I mean, nobody—not my parents, not my wife, not my kids, not anybody. There were four combat Marines I worked with for thirty years, and we never talked about the war. We might tell something funny that happened sometime, but that was it. I mean, this guy works with people for decades after the war, and they all have this shared experience, a terrible experience, and they never talk about it at all. When I was a child in the 70s I knew one guy, a friend of my grandfather's, who had been at Iwo Jima, as an infantryman. And to talk to the guy, you would never know it, because he certainly never brought it up and didn't really have much to say about any of it if the subject of WWII (or any war) came up. To clarify, I am not saying it's best not to talk about it, I am saying I think it is always better to talk about it. But people back then tended to internalize it always, no matter how bad it was. And for perspective, I was in the USMC, but from 1987-1998 so I cannot really understand how traumatic war is, and what people go through after experiencing combat. My personal experience was 1991 with people mass-surrendering and seeing dead bodies that had been blown up in that convoy fleeing Baghdad when things went south for the Iraqis, a day after it happened, and then coming home to parades. This guy's story gets a little bit happier, though: quote:In 1980, thirty-five years after the war, I went to my first reunion ever of the 1st Marine Division, in Indianapolis, Indiana. There were twenty Marines out of K Company there, and I had done foxhole duty with every single one of them. We’d be sitting around in the hospitality room, and they’d say, “Burgin, you remember so and so?” and I wouldn’t. But they’d start telling what happened and who was involved, and it came back to me just like it was yesterday. The more I went to the reunions, the more I could talk. Each year that I could go, it got a little easier, until I could talk about the war with ease. Anyway... I just wanted you guys to know that I read everything you say in here, I know a lot of you have been through unbelievably horrendous poo poo, and though my own experiences are nothing like that and I can't imagine the pain you have been through, I can still empathize, I am proud of all of you, and there are people out here who care.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:46
|
|
|
Oh hey, more republican voter fraud. Missing woman mysteriously votes turmp! 5 months after going missing. https://www.kktv.com/2021/05/14/colorado-man-suspected-in-wifes-death-cast-presidential-ballot-in-her-name/ quote:DENVER (AP) — A Colorado man suspected in the death of his wife who disappeared on Mother’s Day 2020 is also accused of submitting a fraudulent vote on her behalf for Donald Trump in November’s presidential election, newly released court documents show. Well, that was expected.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 13:42
|
|
 Thread title plz
|
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:13 |
|
|
boop the snoot posted:
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 17:49
|
|
