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It's common sense that Israel has the right to respond without restriction, as it sees fit, to anything it deems an attack. And Palestinians have the right to passively be acted upon as Israel sees fit. Asking for any kind of proportionality, restraint, or even basic humanity from Israel is antisemitic.
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May 16, 2021 02:41
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Magic Underwear posted:It's common sense that Israel has the right to respond without restriction, as it sees fit, to anything it deems an attack. And Palestinians have the right to passively be acted upon as Israel sees fit. Asking for any kind of proportionality, restraint, or even basic humanity from Israel is antisemitic. A typical reply I would expect from the DSA.
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May 16, 2021 02:53
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GreyjoyBastard posted:you may be interested to discover that there is a second tweet in that very thread Even for you this is an idiotic post
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May 16, 2021 03:47
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GreyjoyBastard posted:you may be interested to discover that there is a second tweet in that very thread Do you think this somehow makes it better? Do you think some vague gesturing to peace somehow excuses him giving the green light for Israel to bomb the poo poo out of Gaza? Keep in mind this isn't some second party reporting on the White House's statement - this is what the White House itself chose to say.
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May 16, 2021 03:53
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GreyjoyBastard posted:you may be interested to discover that there is a second tweet in that very thread For what it's worth, I'm sure that the administration would earnestly rather people not die and the hot conflict to end. But the second tweet shows a reactionary stance towards the larger conflict that makes broad gestures to peace when the conflict is at its most inflamed rather than considering longterm issues. And yeah, I'm sure there are people in the administration who obviously know this poo poo and the tweet probably doesn't represent the full nuance of their strategy. But it perpetuates lovely misunderstandings of the situation and does tell a story of their priorities.
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May 16, 2021 04:04
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https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1393673695433043976 democrat...good???????
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May 16, 2021 04:46
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1393673695433043976
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May 16, 2021 04:50
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1393673695433043976 lmao the sheer assblasted-ness of a lot of the comments from you can guess what types. "Y-YEAH WELL, YOU STUMBLED OVER YOUR WORDS ONCE" - Says person with 'Columnist @Jerusalem_Post' in their header
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May 16, 2021 05:01
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I doubt they'd ever do it because the electoral left is pretty spineless, but are there enough Palestine-sympathetic house members to shut down legislation? I feel like "stop supporting this atrocity or the only legacy you'll have is a $1400 check" would be one of the few ways the Biden administration could be pushed away from this bullshit.GreyjoyBastard posted:you may be interested to discover that there is a second tweet in that very thread The Palestinian Authority is projected to not even be the majority government in the West Bank, should he ever permit the elections to happen. This means virtually nothing as it still involves him freezing out and seeking to delegitimize the predominant government in Palestine. This isn't a revolutionary change in rhetoric, it's Biden recognizing that the compliant administration is on shaky ground and in need of legitimization. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 05:52
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1393673695433043976 Why oblique? It's okay I'd just hesitate to call it good. She's going to get hit with the full force of Israeli right wing settler-colonial zionism for implying, so why stop there? It takes an ongoing massacre to vaguely hint at the reality of the situation? https://youtu.be/NpcCC5bhb7M That was her what, just last month? Sure we're probably in a position now with more prominent politicians willing to offer some criticism than at any time in the last 40 years or more but I'd hesitate to even jokingly call it good. Not trying to attack you it's just goddamn, we're in the midst of Israel's roughly bidecadal ratcheting up of it's genocide and a vaguely inferential tweet feels like a milestone. In the meantime the president of the same party as the handful of dissenters grants full support for the escalation of genocide we're seeing. That said, greyjoy own your miserable assed garbage defense of the reality of apartheid and genocide by pointing to a subtweet that in the best light only implies we just wanna get back to the status quo of apartheid. How about that Trump embassy move to Jerusalem they decided was not worth the effort of rolling back?
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May 16, 2021 05:54
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She did go quite a ways beyond that tho? tbh I expected wall to wall bullshit from dem politicians like this poo poo https://twitter.com/senwarren/status/1393675792228487175?s=21 Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 05:58
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I dunno if it'd even go to call it vague, everyone knows who they're talking about, even if it wasn't in the face of the most recent round of israeli terrorism, it's been a given for a while to anyone not plugging their ears and stomping about the poor democratic underdog of the middle east and all that garbage and her entire feed before and after that tweet has been about it otherwise.
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May 16, 2021 06:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:She did go quite a ways beyond that tho? It's terrible, but I also can't help but laugh at the utterly audacious absurdity of it. Like the entire first half is set up for a condemnation that never comes, it's like when a brain slug in some cartoon zaps someone's brain halfway through a statement that was going to end with them spilling the beans and sends them off into some neutral or supportive direction. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 06:24 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 06:21
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hobotrashcanfires posted:
lol my position on that is wholly and entirely: don't strip tweets of context, at least be angry about the actual whole body of work see the related concept of "consider reading the article", except in this case, it's "consider acknowledging the existence of the very next tweet in the thread" Herstory Begins Now posted:She did go quite a ways beyond that tho? yeah this is about as good as i expected, unfortunately bernie did an nyt op-ed: https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1393281405111750657?s=20 it's actually pretty good
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May 16, 2021 06:21
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TOO BAD BY THE FUKING TIME we do anything about it all the palestinians will be dead or removed from their HOMES and gently caress Liz Warren for saying this poo poo. The Palestinians were seeking a cease fire from minute loving one through diplomatic channels in Egypt. She should loving know that and probably does. But spinning this as an equal sided conflict is the democrat whipping.
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May 16, 2021 06:30
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lol my position on that is wholly and entirely: don't strip tweets of context, at least be angry about the actual whole body of work If you agree that it changes nothing, then no context was stripped.
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May 16, 2021 06:33
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lol my position on that is wholly and entirely: don't strip tweets of context, at least be angry about the actual whole body of work You haven't explained what you think the 2nd tweet changed, and why the person you quoted shouldn't be angry about the first one.
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May 16, 2021 06:38
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It is okay, something I'm extremely reluctant to feel let alone say about any national US politician's statement but particularly in the realm of foreign policy. And even then it's just a statement, on Twitter. Watch that YouTube link if you like, it is the feel-good say the right thing and come across as a good person who cares about both sides of the political question with zero acknowledgment of the reality that exploded quite rapidly when Israel did what it always does. Which should I trust? Does she suddenly understand it's an apartheid state? Did she know before but prevaricate to placate political power? Hell loving yeah I'm gonna second guess a political statement about what is happening right now on Twitter that vaguely refers to the perpetrator of apartheid instead of outright naming them. Its not good enough, and if it disappears the moment there's a 'ceasefire', with maybe a moment of tsk'ing the death toll and immediately forgetting that one of the most densely populated and impoverished places on earth has just been insanely devastated and traumatized once again. GreyjoyBastard posted:lol my position on that is wholly and entirely: don't strip tweets of context, at least be angry about the actual whole body of work Is it more important that PR tweets by a hegemonic government in support of one of it's satellite imperial states engaging in an escalation receives it's proper context as yes we'd prefer the negative peace of apartheid where genocide and displacement is quiet instead of really loud and littered with body parts, but you have a right to be really loud and litter it with body parts and you have our full backing and use of our regional weapons depot to do so (we may need to vote in congress to approve of using that depot but don't worry we do every time this happens). lol no, the context of reality and the countless lives that have and will be ended and otherwise horrifically impacted matter infinitely more than giving carte blanche yet again for apartheid and genocide with the caveat of we wish it was all happening quietly again.
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May 16, 2021 06:51
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lol my position on that is wholly and entirely: don't strip tweets of context, at least be angry about the actual whole body of work The actual context that matters more than some miserable, meaningless addendum that changes precisely nothing is an active, heightening genocide for which we are directly responsible. This is what is actually happening, and in the course of these events you have once more found yourself playing the part of accessory to said genocide, a minimum of twice this term which would not have otherwise happened had there not been a partisan incentive. You can play stupid all you like and there is almost certainly someone out there who is going to lick your rear end for it, there's enough precedent around here for it -- a pithy, barebones stimulus can go quite a ways into buying people's souls. In the end every single strained attempt you will make at reframing the party line will amount to the selfsame pretense of action every Democratic politician has performed for as long as they have funneled weapons into the Israeli's pockets. If the stars align correctly perhaps you will be blessed with enough awareness to recognize this in good conscience, and by some strange miracle may it happen within the same brief window in which Joe Biden dislodges his wilting pecker from your ear.
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May 16, 2021 06:58
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 We must secure the existence of our people and a future for israeli children
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May 16, 2021 06:58
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lol my position on that is wholly and entirely: don't strip tweets of context, at least be angry about the actual whole body of work Good thing you clarified this, because it really looked like you thought you were getting in a sick "well actually" rejoinder on an anti-Biden post but instead made yourself like a clueless buffoon, but thanks to the additional context here, it's clear that definitely wasn't what happened. I'm not sure why you left this context out of the first post though, especially considering the point you're making about not leaving out context, but we all fumble our posts from time to time Glad you agree Biden is being a disingenuous piece of poo poo giving the green light to more US-sponsored mass child murder though. It's important everyone is on the same page (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 16, 2021 07:03
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I have a question for the thread and before I ask I'll say that I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to Israeli or Palestinian politics. That said, given that the two state solution appears to no longer be an option that that leaves only Full Citizenship for Palestinians. My question has two parts with the first being how feasible is this to begin with and if did occur would it make big enough difference? On another note, it seems that there are indeed strong economic ties with Israeli but what goods and services are we referring to specifically? If the United States or other Countries decided to tell Netanyahu to completely go gently caress himself what would be lost exactly?
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May 16, 2021 07:05
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:If the United States or other Countries decided to tell Netanyahu to completely go gently caress himself what would be lost exactly? The US would save a shitload of money and that's mostly it.
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May 16, 2021 07:08
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I have a question for the thread and before I ask I'll say that I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to Israeli or Palestinian politics. That said, given that the two state solution appears to no longer be an option that that leaves only Full Citizenship for Palestinians. My question has two parts with the first being how feasible is this to begin with and if did occur would it make big enough difference? It's just more realistic than a two-state solution, which itself isn't remotely going to happen either. In the case of a country like SA, the majority population was being ruled by a minority and that was never sustainable. So when the rest of the world cut economic ties with SA it eventually caused the collapse of the regime, although it took way, way too long. I don't know if there is any scenario where a very tightly controlled population like the Palestinians are going to be able to have any real leverage over the Israeli political situation. It just seems incredibly far fetched now.
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May 16, 2021 07:11
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Yardbomb posted:The US would save a shitload of money and that's mostly it. Sure. I get that but money typical represents something. In the case of Israeli I'm sure US Defense Contractors would take a hit but I doubt it'd be that much. FlamingLiberal posted:It's never going to happen. Are you referring to Saudi Arabia? And why is it impossible? Or is the likely conclusion at this point that the Netanyahu government will simply slowly consume the West Bank and Gaza Strip? I haven't read about the conflict forever but I am of the understanding Palestinians have done well in the United Nations and other International Courts. It seems if the US dropped support of Israeli or even partially that'd put them in a position where they'd have to negotiate.
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May 16, 2021 07:23
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Are you referring to Saudi Arabia? And why is it impossible? Or is the likely conclusion at this point that the Netanyahu government will simply slowly consume the West Bank and Gaza Strip? The Israelis would have to re-write their Constitution to have a one-state solution and there is no way that will ever happen. At this point my belief is that eventually Israel will annex all of the West Bank and probably just leave Gaza as is, because it's a giant mess and there isn't any benefit to them trying to annex Gaza. In theory if the US stopped vetoing all Israel-related resolutions at the UN something might happen, but I remember at the end of 2016 how much whining there was when Obama let one nonbinding resolution get through without a veto which basically just finger-wagged at Israel for settlements. No politician with any significant power in the US is going to rock the boat in regards to the US/Israeli relationship.
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May 16, 2021 07:27
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I have a question for the thread and before I ask I'll say that I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to Israeli or Palestinian politics. That said, given that the two state solution appears to no longer be an option that that leaves only Full Citizenship for Palestinians. My question has two parts with the first being how feasible is this to begin with and if did occur would it make big enough difference? It is the most feasible situation in the moral sense of easing the most suffering for the most number of people, and simultaneously the most infeasible situation in that the Israeli powers that be would never ever agree to it. quote:On another note, it seems that there are indeed strong economic ties with Israeli but what goods and services are we referring to specifically? If the United States or other Countries decided to tell Netanyahu to completely go gently caress himself what would be lost exactly? At least in the US case, AIPAC will give billions of dollars to the party opposing whoever made that decision and they will be endlessly accused of being weak and unmanly and quite possibly those candidates will lose elections. So in an impersonal sense nothing will be lost, but it probably still won't happen. Crosby B. Alfred posted:I haven't read about the conflict forever but I am of the understanding Palestinians have done well in the United Nations and other International Courts. It seems if the US dropped support of Israeli or even partially that'd put them in a position where they'd have to negotiate. Who would negotiate exactly? From the Israeli side you're talking about a well organized government with control of one of the most modern and capable militaries in the world (SA wishes they had what Israel has), and while it's government is particularly divided right now, the one thing they can agree on is that they sure as poo poo aren't giving full and equal rights to a bunch of Palestinians. Maybe that changes if you can unite China and the USA to drop the sanction hammer on them, but uhhhhh don't hold your breath PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 07:32 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 07:28
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Yardbomb posted:The US would save a shitload of money and that's mostly it. Israel is pivotal for control and influence in the region, that they're as monstrous as they are is damning but also a reflection of ourselves. Cutting them loose isn't just giving up our powerbase in the region it's surrendering to whoever they shop themselves to because they can't do what they do without powerful backing. So yeah we drop billions and undermine all international institutions and legitimacy because it's mutually beneficial. Way more money is made than lost dominating the region, it just only flows to the benefit of few. Maybe we're hitting the point where that's a losing gamble, but they're gonna keep playing it for money and power until it falls apart. There is no money lost for power in this fight, it's already paid for itself many times over. The subjugation of Palestinians is a modern policing problem and the training and weaponry for it is one of their chief exports. It's all very sympatico for power.
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May 16, 2021 07:36
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Which should I trust? Does she suddenly understand it's an apartheid state? Did she know before but prevaricate to placate political power? Hell loving yeah I'm gonna second guess a political statement about what is happening right now on Twitter that vaguely refers to the perpetrator of apartheid instead of outright naming them. By all means, be broadly skeptical of what a politician says, just don't be so jaded that you mistake a half-full glass for being completely empty. Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 07:47 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 07:40
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Cugel the Clever posted:It's not something you need to trust... she and other Democrats have been calling out Israel explicitly all week and you can easily review her other tweets to see that there's noting "vague" about the reference. She and others have also spoken at length on the House floor to spotlight the suffering of the Palestinian people at the hand of the Israeli state. The pressure they are mounting may not achieve anything for this round of conflict, but it remains an unprecedented shift in the party's rhetoric on Israel. She hasn't been all that great on foreign policy, with regard to Israel she's often been quite bad actually. She played into the absurdity that Corbyn was some anti-semite, she didn't stand up and actually stood against Ilhan Omar when she called out the money and power influence Israel has over politics. She's been pretty lackluster or out right bad on most foreign policy, really. Cugel the Clever posted:She and other Democrats have been calling out Israel explicitly all week No offense but really? All week? The fact that's notable at all is a big part of the problem, and also why it's incredibly important that if tweets matter and are impactful they specify perpetrator and crime when they are inevitably dredged up forever for that specific purpose, especially on the issue of Israel/Palestine in loving US politics for reasons we all know. If it makes me a jaded cynic to have little faith in carefully worded tweets that finally hint at the reality of an atrocity only as it reaches new heights that began long before I was ever born, well then please tell me the term I should aspire to be. Learned history of similar situations has taught me such things don't mean poo poo sincerely or not, living through multiple episodes of this pantomime with specific relation to Israel has taught me it doesn't even matter much if they do care if all they have for it, at long last, is some stern words as horror hits its new peak. These are people at the pinnacle of power that runs across the entire world and impacts everyone. Even if she harbors my precise view of the world, she's done a poo poo job fighting for it and deserves criticism.
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May 16, 2021 08:30
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FlamingLiberal posted:South Africa. Blah! I should have known about SA! It seems that - the general consensus - is that Israeli is going to slowly consume the remaining parts of Palestine and there isn't much at all that anyone can do to stop it. Which is freaking gross and awful. That said, I will say that when it comes to US Politics I do think there is indeed a shift in that at the minimum becoming much, much more skeptical of Israeli. This goes all the way from AOC, The Squad to even MSNBC. And bombing the AP Headquarters I can't imagine is going to accomplish much beyond pissing of the entire mainstream journalism community.
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May 16, 2021 08:31
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https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1393645557659361290?s=19 Leicester players celebrating after winning the FA cup Loving Africa Chaps fucked around with this message at 09:01 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 08:45
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Loving Africa Chaps posted:https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1393645557659361290?s=19 Everytime I see photos of Vickie Pollard's da I'm reminded of a Mr Bungle song. https://youtu.be/km1uWUPQvcs (No, not Desert Search For Techno Allah, Egg)
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May 16, 2021 10:27
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Desert Search for Techno Allah is a powerful tune tho
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May 16, 2021 10:40
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Israel is pivotal for control and influence in the region, They're not that at all. There isn't a single U.S. soldier in there and literally everyone hates them even if they have to work with them through gritted teeth thanks to the United States.
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May 16, 2021 11:07
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DarkCrawler posted:There isn't a single U.S. soldier in there and literally everyone hates them even if they have to work with them through gritted teeth thanks to the United States.
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May 16, 2021 12:28
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Budzilla posted:Most ME states hate Iran more than Israel for a long time now and the mask has only publicly slipped off recently. Many leaders consider Israel to be a necessary ally against Iran. Look at the Wikileaks cable dump years back, not a peep about Israel and its treatment of Palestinians by Arab leaders but lots of hand wringing over Iran's influence/nuke program. They just can't be seen as loving them considering you know, Israel is a Jewish state oppressing Muslims and it will look bad to their public image. Bibi is ramping up the violence since he knows he can get away with since his neighbors aren't going to do poo poo. All that results is some military/intelligence cooperation, hardly a replacement for a hypothetical U.S. "gently caress this poo poo" yeeting out. Saudi Arabia or Egypt aren't going to open massive trade relations and tourism, write them a blank check for three billion dollars every year, or shill for them in the UN. Neither is anyone else.
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May 16, 2021 12:39
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DarkCrawler posted:Saudi Arabia or Egypt aren't going to open massive trade relations and tourism, write them a blank check for three billion dollars every year, or shill for them in the UN. Neither is anyone else.
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May 16, 2021 12:55
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Israel really has everything sealed up. Egypt neutralized since the Morsi coup, Lebanon in shambles, Syria and Libya destroyed, GCC/Jordan compliant client states. The only problem they have left are the internal contradictions of their own society. I guess if I was a zionist looking back to, say, the 70s and comparing it to now I'd be fine with that. mila kunis fucked around with this message at 13:42 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 13:32
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droll posted:A typical reply I would expect from the DSA.
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