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Pennywise the Frown posted:I wasn't trying to be misleading at all. Look at all of my other posts after that one. It clears up what I was trying to say. I certainly don't think you were trying to be misleading. But I also think that if your first statement had been "vaccines don't provide 100% immunity" instead of "vaccines don't provide immunity," you would have gotten zero pushback.
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May 16, 2021 19:01
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Castaign posted:Pennywise is a regularly good poster who seems to be using a different definition of "immunity" than most people. Good post. I also think "100%" when I hear immunity (like Pennywise), but I also now realize that's not the correct definition, at least in this context. To even add more confusion, each vax most likely has different "immunity" against different variants. There's only so much we can control with all of this. I choose to get vaxxed, wear masks, even outdoors, and stay home as much as possible. I hope to get back to "normal", but realistically, I think this is the new flu, in that we'll have to get boosters until the entire planet starts to slow it down, if that ever happens. That world sucks, but I'm doing what I can to protect myself and others while living in it. If you're feeling worried about how long this might last, at least take solace in the fact that we did have a "normal" life before this. If it becomes endemic, people born after 2019 won't know what it was like to live in that normal world. I'd like to think living in that would be worse, but some days I also think maybe ignorance is bliss.
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May 16, 2021 19:02
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In different news, my county and all the neighboring ones are going to be over 50% vaccinated in a week or two and it seems like the rate of new doses is actually slightly rising again after the big drop once the initial rush of everyone 16+ being eligible wore off. I think we'll actually hit that 60% maybe even 70% level over the summer. However it's going to be pretty pointless because almost the entire rest of the state has been stuck in the 30's forever and many seem to be reporting single digit doses per day. So even if we do the right thing here, poo poo will just bleed over from covid country forever. Pennywise the Frown posted:I wasn't trying to be misleading at all. Look at all of my other posts after that one. It clears up what I was trying to say. Deliberately misleading was the wrong way to put it on my part. I just don't think you're going to find many people around here using that definition of immunity.
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May 16, 2021 19:03
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Based on the contents of my Facebook, most of the Midwest thinks that the day after your second shot you are good to go for F&S@D.
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May 16, 2021 19:07
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Castaign posted:I certainly don't think you were trying to be misleading. But I also think that if your first statement had been "vaccines don't provide 100% immunity" instead of "vaccines don't provide immunity," you would have gotten zero pushback. Yep. You are correct. I should have been more specific. That would have avoided all of this lol.
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May 16, 2021 19:08
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I'm going to continue to do what I've been doing for a few more weeks at least until I see that local cases/hospitalizations/deaths are still dropping in which case I might feel comfortable unmasking indoors.
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May 16, 2021 19:13
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Kragger99 posted:I also think "100%" when I hear immunity (like Pennywise), but I also now realize that's not the correct definition, at least in this context. It's kind of weird. If I read "this confers immunity" I automatically parse it as "this confers some level of immunity." But if I read someone stating "I am immune to X" I would parse that as "I am 100% immune to X."
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May 16, 2021 19:16
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:We don't actually have good information on how many breakthrough cases are occurring in the US, by design. The CDC decided to stop counting all but the most serious cases back in April and they're not interested in keeping any stats on the asymptomatic breakthrough cases now correct me if im wrong but shouldn't you be keeping tabs ESPECIALLY on asymptomatic breakthrough cases? because that means you're still a carrier and a possible spreading vector. sure, you aren't expectorating out of every orifice, but you can still spread it through the things you touch and breathe on?
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May 16, 2021 19:29
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I know it gives more ammunition to the vaccine conspiracy types. It's amazing how much credibility the CDC has lost in the last year, and yes I know some of that was due to politics beyond their control.
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May 16, 2021 19:38
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sharknado slashfic posted:I know it gives more ammunition to the vaccine conspiracy types. It's amazing how much credibility the CDC has lost in the last year, and yes I know some of that was due to politics beyond their control. Yeah this is a real shame. I even lost some faith in the CDC. Imagine what the chuds think who thought they were bullshit anyway. They probably think that they CDC is planning to scare us with a fake virus to force us into camps blah blah blah.
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May 16, 2021 19:40
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Lurker Ant posted:I've literally been waiting to get the vaccine before I make a new dating profile. My ex broke up with me right before covid hit so it seems appropriate. Hell yeah, get 'em.
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May 16, 2021 19:49
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I think the appropriate response if you are fully vaccinated is to return pre-Covid activities maskless in moderation based on the circumstance. I’m going to wear a mask to the grocery store through the summer at least. I’m always going to wear a mask when I walk around the floor at work or are around other people. If I’m in my office alone, I will take it off some/most of the time. I’ll eat in at restaurants maybe once every week or two. If I go to a bar, I’ll sit outside. I’ll do almost all outside activity without a mask. I’ll spend time at friends homes that have been fully vaccinated without a mask. There’s a logical ground between mask all the time and open ‘Er up. I would encourage everyone who is fully vaccinated to get back to some social activities that are good for your mental health and are very low risk. It’s going to make you anxious as gently caress the first few times but you’ll eventually find a safe middle ground. Edit: And honestly, I think I may engage some level of masking, regular anti-bacterial sanitization and distancing even after things calm down and Covid is a smaller threat. I haven’t had a cold, stomach, flu, absolutely nothing contagious and transmittable since this started. It’s been great to have no one in my family get the pukes for a full year. Saltpowered fucked around with this message at 20:05 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 19:57
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Thanks for the advice about windmilling and stretching my arm last night before I went to bed, guys - I woke up and still felt a little tight, but a couple hours later and I feel totally fine and normal now - good stuff!
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May 16, 2021 20:01
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:This is going to sound sassy and I don't mean it that way, but you're very pro-pre-covid and have been for a while. So I hope you don't mind me asking this. If you or one of those who went out to eat with you got seriously sick or (gods all forbid) passed away because their vaccine failed, would you continue to do the above? Or would you want the general public to roll back towards mask mandates and stuff? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html Accoding to this out of 115 million people have been fully vaccinated, there have been 1359 breakthrough cases and of those there were 1136 hospitalizations and 223 deaths. In comparison given what we know from 2020 we can expect of those 115 million around 1.6 million needing medical attention and 14,600 to die due to traffic accidents. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/preliminary-estimates/ Given the numbers if I was in his shoes I'd be more worried getting into a rollover on the way to the restaurant rather than the vaccine not working. mikemil828 fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 20:04
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Lawlicaust posted:
Yeah, as stupid as it sounds I might keep masking for public transport* and if I ever return to a tiny windowless office. It feels good not spending all my earnings in doctors trying to find out what type of bug I got. *Public transport in my city is very third world-ish. Imagine riding a small van crammed with 20 people in it, during a hot summer, and having one of the passengers cough in your face with their mouth open and not being able to move away because you will end staring directly at some dude's farting butt. I don't miss it.
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May 16, 2021 20:11
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Yeah this is a real shame. I even lost some faith in the CDC. The whole world used to follow the CDC's leadership. None finer. And now it's like, oh, hey, they finally acknowledged airborne transmission *checks date* haha, they must've been getting their poo poo rocked by the National Restaurant Association.
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May 16, 2021 20:31
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Lawlicaust posted:... I would encourage everyone ... to get back ... 
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May 16, 2021 20:31
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Yeah I'm debating wearing my mask during the winter anyway. The flu tanked this past season and it was all due to wearing masks and handwashing. I'll probably get looked at a lot though and I have very low self esteem so we'll see how that pans out. I have a sweet rear end mask that looks cool though. It was also really nice to have on in the stinging cold. I get my flu shot every year and sometimes I still do get sick but it's generally really mild and just a "I feel like garbage" feeling. No fever or vomiting or cold symptoms or anything.
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May 16, 2021 20:42
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Fur20 posted:now correct me if im wrong but shouldn't you be keeping tabs ESPECIALLY on asymptomatic breakthrough cases? because that means you're still a carrier and a possible spreading vector. sure, you aren't expectorating out of every orifice, but you can still spread it through the things you touch and breathe on? Without daily brain-scraping of the entire population, how are you supposed to be keeping tabs on asymptomatic breakthrough cases?
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May 16, 2021 20:46
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Without daily brain-scraping of the entire population, how are you supposed to be keeping tabs on asymptomatic breakthrough cases? idk contact tracing???? oh that's right nobody bothers to fund that
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May 16, 2021 21:10
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just got home from a long line at the grocery store pharmacy and im v. angry a couple with their 4 kids all but one definitely old enough to normally require masks. none of the kids wearing masks. all of them allowed to wander amongst the line completely unhindered. i feel extremely bad for the 80 year old sickly lady in line who kept cringing back every time the kids wandered up  on the bright side the parents were in line for vaccines i guess
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May 16, 2021 21:32
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Quote edit
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May 16, 2021 21:33
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I dunno about the rest of you but in the interest of safety I will be dressing like meco eno and uli nomi from the moog cookbook forever more. even in bed. ESPECIALLY in bed
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May 16, 2021 21:51
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quote:HipHopDX: So in a few generations we're just gonna be an ugly, ugly race?
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May 16, 2021 22:01
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mikemil828 posted:https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html Those are only hospitalizations and deaths. There were thousands upon thousands more that were mildly ill or asymptomatic and tested positive.
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May 16, 2021 22:21
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learnincurve posted:And you can’t see how absolutely infuriating it is for people living in countries in full lockdown, or about to enact stupid policies that will cause a spike, to be lectured at by Australians, and others in covid free countries, about how the vaccines may not work - while they are happily sat there with no masks and normal lives with absolutely no bloody risk of catching covid. Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off as lecturing, I guess I saw one too many “I’m vaccinated and I’m tossing the mask”’comments on reddit and I just wanted to share about the sudden outbreak of cases happening in Singapore. We have to wear masks outside of our home here (though not everyone wear it properly) and the initial outbreak is thought to have started at the airport where the airport staff have been vaccinated for months. I dunno, maybe I’m just frustrated (with my elderly family members and the govts’ handling of the current outbreak) and it’s came through in my previous post. FWIW I do absolutely believe the vaccines (like all vaccines) work and provide a degree of immunity.
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May 16, 2021 23:09
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mania posted:Goddamn there are 38 community case today in Singapore, of which 18 we’re not linked to any previous cases. How good is your contact tracing? We have world class contact tracing and only recently have we had a single case where we've been unable to find the missing link. A year ago our contact tracing wasn't so robust and that made containing community spread more difficult.
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May 16, 2021 23:52
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Green Nail Polish posted:This isn't true at all. The vaccines greatly reduce the chance that you will contract Covid-19, and if you do get it, they even more greatly reduce the chance that you will get sick, and they even more MORE greatly reduce the chance you will be hospitalized. The odds don’t stack like that. Given the symptom reduction ratio, the reduction in deaths is only about half. This is good. There could have been no additional reduction in deaths, or the vaccine could even have reduced deaths at a lower proportion than it reduced symptoms, but let’s not overstate things. If you are vaccinated, symptomatic, and test positive for COVID-19, you are in a substantially worse position than you would be with the flu.
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May 17, 2021 00:04
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Castaign posted:It's kind of weird. If I read "this confers immunity" I automatically parse it as "this confers some level of immunity." But if I read someone stating "I am immune to X" I would parse that as "I am 100% immune to X." It’s a case of science borrowing normal words and using them in ways that is vaguely suggestive of but not at all the same as their general meaning. It’s the “tomato is a fruit” problem. If I say “Superman is immune to bullets”, no one expects that if the bad guys shoot him a dozen times, one bullet will go right through and mortally wound him.
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May 17, 2021 00:10
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One of the problems in talking about immunity are the fuckwits out there who treat vaccination as some kind of anointment, where covid is simply not a concern anymore and they can lick all the lamp posts they want now and forevermore. Add in the CDC unexpectedly dropping "forget about masks if you're vaccinated" then it makes the whole situation really disturbing. I'm planning to keep wearing masks the same way I was for the indefinite future, but I'm also lucky I live in a place where I am unlikely to have idiots step up on me for doing so.
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May 17, 2021 00:23
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CaptainSarcastic posted:One of the problems in talking about immunity are the fuckwits out there who treat vaccination as some kind of anointment, where covid is simply not a concern anymore and they can lick all the lamp posts they want now and forevermore. Add in the CDC unexpectedly dropping "forget about masks if you're vaccinated" then it makes the whole situation really disturbing. I'm planning to keep wearing masks the same way I was for the indefinite future, but I'm also lucky I live in a place where I am unlikely to have idiots step up on me for doing so. So when the scientists say I can go without a mask because I'm vaccinated, and I follow their scientifically backed opinion, I'm a fuckwit? Do you wear a face shield with your mask in case someone sneezes in your eyes? Studies show people who wear glasses get covid less often, seems kind of careless to wear one and not the other imo.
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May 17, 2021 00:28
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CaptainSarcastic posted:One of the problems in talking about immunity are the fuckwits out there who treat vaccination as some kind of anointment, where covid is simply not a concern anymore and they can lick all the lamp posts they want now and forevermore. Add in the CDC unexpectedly dropping "forget about masks if you're vaccinated" then it makes the whole situation really disturbing. I'm planning to keep wearing masks the same way I was for the indefinite future, but I'm also lucky I live in a place where I am unlikely to have idiots step up on me for doing so. Masks on public transport and in shopping centres get mandated here pretty much any time there's a case of community transmission. The moment the mandate is lifted, the vast majority of people stop wearing masks (there was a snap lockdown a couple of weeks ago which started in the early evening and most people didn't even have masks with them). While I'd like to think that people will keep wearing masks as we head into flu season and while our vaccination rate is so low, the evidence suggests otherwise. Lolie fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 17, 2021 |
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May 17, 2021 00:30
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satanic splash-back posted:So when the scientists say I can go without a mask because I'm vaccinated, and I follow their scientifically backed opinion, I'm a fuckwit? The cashier at the grocery store doesn't know if I'm vaccinated. The small restaurant I got takeout from yesterday doesn't know if I'm vaccinated. If wearing a mask makes others around me feel safer then I'm going to do it. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept, much less something to get angry about.
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May 17, 2021 00:31
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Those are only hospitalizations and deaths. There were thousands upon thousands more that were mildly ill or asymptomatic and tested positive. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/past-breakthrough-data.html I suppose 9,245 breakthrough cases total could be considered 'thousands upon thousands', but if we are going to be honest, expecting fully vaccinated folks to curtail their normal lives when only .0001% of them get detectably infected is a really hard ask. CaptainSarcastic posted:The cashier at the grocery store doesn't know if I'm vaccinated. The small restaurant I got takeout from yesterday doesn't know if I'm vaccinated. If wearing a mask makes others around me feel safer then I'm going to do it. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept, much less something to get angry about. By all means, however that doesn't mean that other vaccinated folks who don't feel the need show solidarity with random strangers are fuckwits.
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May 17, 2021 00:45
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CaptainSarcastic posted:The cashier at the grocery store doesn't know if I'm vaccinated. The small restaurant I got takeout from yesterday doesn't know if I'm vaccinated. If wearing a mask makes others around me feel safer then I'm going to do it. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept, much less something to get angry about. But you know you are vaccinated. Also one thing that struck me over the past few is that the vaccine was treated as the holy grail and once it rolls out to enough people the end will be in sight. That doesn’t seem to be the case looking over posts in this thread.
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May 17, 2021 00:46
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mikemil828 posted:https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/past-breakthrough-data.html No, the people who demonstrably treat the vaccination like a magical transformation that means we can drop all safety precautions are. "I got my shot so open 'er up!" is where I'm drawing the fuckwit line. And wearing a mask for the 15 minutes I'm in the grocery store or whatever is not a significant burden.
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May 17, 2021 00:48
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mikemil828 posted:https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/past-breakthrough-data.html Your entire argument is based off of comparing the number of documented breakthrough cases at this point in time to the total number of people vaccinated right now. That's not how you measure how well a vaccine or treatment works. You have to compare it to a control group. Why should anyone give any weight to your opinion when you are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what you are talking about?
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May 17, 2021 00:49
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CaptainSarcastic posted:No, the people who demonstrably treat the vaccination like a magical transformation that means we can drop all safety precautions are. I’m not sure if you watched the news or anything but that’s legit what people have been told since this poo poo started. The vaccine is supposed to be the “cure”.
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May 17, 2021 00:50
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mikemil828 posted:https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/past-breakthrough-data.html Donald Trump used statistics more accurately and more honestly.
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May 17, 2021 00:51
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If the CDC had approached the lifting of mask restrictions in a more measured way this would be much less of a concern. My state has been operating on a predictable weekly cadence for managing restrictions, and it was not a surprise when risk levels would be adjusted up or down. To have the CDC just out of the blue say "Ayyyyy, fuggedabout masks" in the middle of the week with no prep time was terrible and confusing messaging. If they had said the change would be implemented June 1st or something it would have been easier to manage, or even with a week's lead time, but just mic dropping it midweek in the middle of May was jarring.
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May 17, 2021 00:53
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