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CJacobs posted:It would be interesting if all this characterization and interpersonal drama was at the expense of resolving the Loup situation and thus it turns out they ran the clock out worrying about their own problems. Would be a nice kick in the pants to get these people to realize that things bigger than themselves started to happen while they stood around going "I don't care what others think I'm happy bein' me and you bein' you!" Unfortunately they snatched the items for Loup while also dealing with those relationship-building issues so from a pure narrative point of view I dunno if the comic is headed in that direction with it. Oh man but thinking about it more, what if this IS actually the direction it's headed and the solution will be time dickery that results in the other Annie being created like cloning the bird, and thus, another stable loop. edit: Well that'd be very silly and unrealistic but I just want Tom to give into the urge to play 4D chess with the audience already CJacobs fucked around with this message at 07:01 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 06:57
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god why does this keep getting worse why does the comic place such narrative importance on an abused child's desperate desire to idealize her father. it's kind of verging onto super hosed up territory! A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 08:52 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 08:48
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A big flaming stink posted:god why does this keep getting worse "i love my dad even if i hate his behaviour sometimes" - hosed up idealization, from the people who brought you 
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May 19, 2021 09:08
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Hodgepodge posted:"i love my dad even if i hate his behaviour sometimes" - hosed up idealization, from the people who brought you a child who has been abused by her father is not an objective judge of his character hth unless thats the point youre making in which case 
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May 19, 2021 09:10
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A big flaming stink posted:a child who has been abused by her father is not an objective judge of his character hth she doesnt have to be, she still gets to choose what sort of relationship she wants to have with him, and decide for herself how she feels about him
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May 19, 2021 09:12
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Hodgepodge posted:she doesnt have to be, she still gets to choose what sort of relationship she wants to have with him, and decide for herself how she feels about him b) she's fictional. She's not making this choice, Tom is. So it's not unreasonable during a "where the gently caress is this going?" discussion to be frustrated at the (on the surface) uncritical acceptance of the common "yeah but he's family" trope.
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May 19, 2021 09:19
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how old is annie at this point?
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May 19, 2021 10:04
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So what's complicating this whole thing is that half of Annie has actually started to mend the relationship with her father and reconnect. Tony mentions it in a hosed up way because the dude has Brain Problems, but he admits that he actually managed to connect to Forest Annie in a way he couldn't with Court Annie. This wasn't some hosed up attempt at manipulation, it was an actual breakthrough of sorts that the merge has now undone. So she knows he's able to make the kind of bond that they both want, and maybe start to be a real dad. She says "I'll probably never see that side of him again" but I'm not sure that's true.
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May 19, 2021 10:06
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Splicer posted:Well a) just because someone had the right to make a choice doesn't mean they made a healthy one or that onlookers can't be concerned/frustrated It's not exactly subtle that this is a fictionalized version of Tom's relationship with his father, so he's likely making Annie do this because he's explaining how he felt about his father at her age, as someone who grew up in circumstances which the ones we see are a fanciful reflection of. Gravitas Shortfall posted:So what's complicating this whole thing is that half of Annie has actually started to mend the relationship with her father and reconnect. Tony mentions it in a hosed up way because the dude has Brain Problems, but he admits that he actually managed to connect to Forest Annie in a way he couldn't with Court Annie. This wasn't some hosed up attempt at manipulation, it was an actual breakthrough of sorts that the merge has now undone. So she knows he's able to make the kind of bond that they both want, and maybe start to be a real dad. She says "I'll probably never see that side of him again" but I'm not sure that's true. She actually states that she doesn't expect to ever recapture the relationship her dad had with Forest Annie. Which I would hope is unwarranted fatalism on her part. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 10:10 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 10:08
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Wait, what was Tom's relationship with his own father again, if we're going down the road of discussing reality subtext bleeding into the comic?
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May 19, 2021 10:12
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Pachylad posted:Wait, what was Tom's relationship with his own father again, if we're going down the road of discussing reality subtext bleeding into the comic? My vauge understanding is that there's at least some autobiographical element there, and it certainly reads that way.
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May 19, 2021 10:18
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Pachylad posted:Wait, what was Tom's relationship with his own father again, if we're going down the road of discussing reality subtext bleeding into the comic?
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May 19, 2021 10:39
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Splicer posted:They had a rocky relationship that started to improve after he got time cloned by a magical wolf/coyote hybrid named Pierre This is why I hate webcomics, they're always about the most mundane poo poo
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May 19, 2021 10:51
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You should read Kill 6 Billion Demons then.
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May 19, 2021 11:39
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IUG posted:You should read Kill 6 Billion Demons then. another slice-of-life comic? hard pass
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May 19, 2021 11:48
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This monologue has been going on for like two weeks now, and says nothing that hasn't already been shown better previously
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May 19, 2021 12:05
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Hodgepodge posted:My vauge understanding is that there's at least some autobiographical element there, and it certainly reads that way. Where has Tom ever said this? Nova69 posted:This monologue has been going on for like two weeks now, and says nothing that hasn't already been shown better previously This is where I'm at.
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May 19, 2021 12:14
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It has shown Annie is in a healthier place with acknowledging her dad's flaws without feeling like that means she's not allowed to love him. But yeah, it's been drawn out a bit much for that alone.
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May 19, 2021 12:22
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Nova69 posted:This monologue has been going on for like two weeks now, and says nothing that hasn't already been shown better previously Each page of these monologues isn't saying anything different from each other. The only thing different in these few pages is that Annie and Jones have finally gone on the house today. EDIT: I'm only being so harsh on this chapter because I do like this story. But Tom's breaking one of his rules he brought up in one of his retrospective videos. "Does this advance the story?" IUG fucked around with this message at 12:25 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 12:22
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Tenebrais posted:It has shown Annie is in a healthier place with acknowledging her dad's flaws without feeling like that means she's not allowed to love him. IUG posted:But Tom's breaking one of his rules he brought up in one of his retrospective videos. "Does this advance the story?" Bell_ fucked around with this message at 12:32 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 12:27
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Comic feels stuck in a hamster wheel.
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May 19, 2021 13:05
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i still want to know how the court's gonna gently caress up the water deal. cause you just KNOW they're gonna gently caress it up.
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May 19, 2021 13:06
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Bell_ posted:"Jones is old" crowd checking in. I don't want to come across as joining in a pile on because, yeah, I've enjoyed this comic a lot and for a long time, but this is how I was feeling like 4? Chapters ago, that I'd wait and see where it was going and if it was building to something since I know that the glacial webcomic release can exacerbate frustrations, but I'm still waiting. I'm hoping it picks up soon though, I have faith that Tom can still write some good stuff and I'll look back on this as a slump.
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May 19, 2021 13:19
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Tenebrais posted:It has shown Annie is in a healthier place with acknowledging her dad's flaws without feeling like that means she's not allowed to love him. Isn't "loving her dad despite him being poo poo and rationalizing reasons why it's okay and gently caress everyone else" basically the stance she's had the whole time? Her reasons and understanding have gotten better, and she's handling that belief in a better way instead of directing negative energy at herself, but it doesn't feel like her actual relationship and opinions have shifted much, just the way she is handling. The opinions of others (aside from him!) in regards to this issue have never meant anything to her, and we know they don't, so why did we spend so much time focusing on them just to have her dismiss them again? She has never ever cared about what she's "allowed" to do. It's weird. Bell_ posted:Maybe. I think it's premature to say that, though. Annie's understanding may very well lead into something else. Sometimes the author needs to tell us one story to tell another. The characters' relationships with each other are where the tension is in GC. Any tension in the adventures are projected there by us readers. This is exactly where its falling flat and failing to advance things though, and feels like it has been for a while. The majority of this has been retreads of what we already know and things that haven't changed. And it's been presented in an a weird nonsensical way. I guess the only knew information is that pretty much everyone in her life is an rear end in a top hat that doesn't care about what is happening to Annie as much as they do sharing negative opinions about her dad, since asking them about the first thing consistently leads to rants about the second? But even that is a retread, we've already known for the longest time that no one except for Kate cares about Annie, not really, not as a person, and not in any kind of meaningful way.
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May 19, 2021 14:15
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Nova69 posted:This monologue has been going on for like two weeks now, and says nothing that hasn't already been shown better previously I'm honestly wondering if Jones is going to call Annie out on monologuing like this. Of the past 6 pages, Jones said words in 3 panels confirming that she'd been inquiring about Annie's mental state. Annie brought this all back to dad. This whole thing has been Annie soapboxing apropos nothing. I'm still firmly on the "something's fishy" train.
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May 19, 2021 14:28
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this poo poo sucks because I wanted to learn more about the two Annies (which I liked having) having been turned into one, and instead I'm having to read more about Tony
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May 19, 2021 14:32
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grieving for Gandalf posted:this poo poo sucks because I wanted to learn more about the two Annies (which I liked having) having been turned into one, and instead I'm having to read more about Tony Whoops!
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May 19, 2021 14:35
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Warmachine posted:I'm honestly wondering if Jones is going to call Annie out on monologuing like this. Of the past 6 pages, Jones said words in 3 panels confirming that she'd been inquiring about Annie's mental state. Annie brought this all back to dad. This whole thing has been Annie soapboxing apropos nothing. There is nothing fishy going on. There is no other shoe waiting to drop. The narrative is clearly framing her fusion as an unambiguous mental state good which is now allowing her to act as a mouthpiece for the author to directly tell you how you should feel about things/what the intended moral takeaway is. Unfortunately the moral here is “poo poo we’ve already heard repeatedly”.
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May 19, 2021 14:35
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Warmachine posted:I'm honestly wondering if Jones is going to call Annie out on monologuing like this. Of the past 6 pages, Jones said words in 3 panels confirming that she'd been inquiring about Annie's mental state. Annie brought this all back to dad. This whole thing has been Annie soapboxing apropos nothing.
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May 19, 2021 14:52
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Yeah, the overwhelming "sense" I am getting from this is that something is really hosed up and eery about how everyone is avoiding the topic of actual conversation, but I also feel like that isn't the sense I'm supposed to be getting.
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May 19, 2021 14:55
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GlyphGryph posted:Isn't "loving her dad despite him being poo poo and rationalizing reasons why it's okay and gently caress everyone else" basically the stance she's had the whole time? Her reasons and understanding have gotten better, and she's handling that belief in a better way instead of directing negative energy at herself, but it doesn't feel like her actual relationship and opinions have shifted much, just the way she is handling. The opinions of others (aside from him!) in regards to this issue have never meant anything to her, and we know they don't, so why did we spend so much time focusing on them just to have her dismiss them again? She has never ever cared about what she's "allowed" to do. I don't think that's entirely true. Annie was not allowing herself to be angry at her dad, and was instead living that anger vicariously through the other characters. That's one reason why I think she flipped out when Kat started accepting Tony. Annie very much cared what other people thought because it allowed her to avoid her real feelings.
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May 19, 2021 15:10
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A big flaming stink posted:a child who has been abused by her father is not an objective judge of his character hth A big flaming stink posted:god why does this keep getting worse Hey, maybe you or another poster can help me out here, but what abuse exactly has Tony heaped upon Antimony? Can you link to the page, or even just what chapter it was in? I've read through the last few chapters about 3 times and I still can't find any. Help a guy out here?
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May 19, 2021 15:18
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life_source posted:Hey, maybe you or another poster can help me out here, but what abuse exactly has Tony heaped upon Antimony? Can you link to the page, or even just what chapter it was in? I've read through the last few chapters about 3 times and I still can't find any. Help a guy out here? the page where he basically declares that he thinks taking her makeup away was actually worse than almost killing her by accident. e: neglect also constitutes abuse. e2: it's cool and all that you want to infantilize every single mentally ill person, and wave away their inappropriate behaviour with "but his brain no work!!" but it's really tiring. he's even extremely high functioning, but has taken absolutely zero steps towards improving his situation. Niavmai fucked around with this message at 15:42 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 15:31
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That is not at all how I read that page, but alright, being in grief mode and hating how someone looks constitutes abuse. I'm not sure what neglect you are talking about here. Are you refering too the two-three years of time when Tony was deep in grief-mode and knew he wouldn't be able to provide for his daughter so he sent her to a boarding school that he has intimite familiarity with the quality of child care of not to mention the two close family friends and some other guy who are teachers and also ensured that everything would be provided for her? I'm trying to not sound like an rear end in a top hat or troll here and failing miserably because it's becoming obvious I don't understand what abuse is.
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May 19, 2021 15:41
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life_source posted:That is not at all how I read that page, but alright, being in grief mode and hating how someone looks constitutes abuse. it's good that he arranged for her care, but what about the years between surma's death, and dumping her alone at the court? did he re-enter grief mode all those years later? or was he just waiting to get rid of her as soon as he possibly could? either way, he dodged his responsibility as a parent so that he could pursue other things. when you are a parent, your children HAVE to come 100% first, no exceptions. it's okay to continue your own work on the side, but you made the choice to have them. especially in this case where you made the choice to have them, knowing the outcome, and then refused to accept said outcome. his grief outweighing his parental responsbilities is completely on his shoulders, mental illness or not. life_source posted:hating how someone looks constitutes abuse. he forced her to remove her makeup, calling it ridiculous, and humiliating her in front of her class. on the surface it might just be lovely parenting, but knowing their history together, and that it was literally their very first interaction after years of absence, makes it abuse. he may not have intended it to be such, but it is. Niavmai fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 15:49
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Niavmai posted:the page where he basically declares that he thinks taking her makeup away was actually worse than almost killing her by accident. Do you really think that "How could I do that to my own daughter?" refers to unmentioned makeup and not to the nearly killing her and agreeing to manipulate her that he was discussing for the entire chapter prior?
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May 19, 2021 15:53
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Dienes posted:Do you really think that "How could I do that to my own daughter?" refers to unmentioned makeup and not to the nearly killing her and agreeing to manipulate her that he was discussing for the entire chapter prior? unmentioned?? he's talking about it in the previous sentence before making the declaration!
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May 19, 2021 15:55
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Niavmai posted:when you are a parent, your children HAVE to come 100% first, no exceptions. Even when you are incapable of being a suitable parent? Anthony is a bad dad, and it's been my understanding that he knows he's a bad dad in a multitude of ways and left her in someone elses care because it was better for her than having him being a bad dad. Neglect? Yes. Abuse? I'm not fully convinced yet.
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May 19, 2021 15:57
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You know, I wonder how all this would feel if, somewhere soon after this page, we'd got a brief scene of Tony (possibly with Kat or Donny) having exactly the same reaction as Annie about finally being able to give her a compliment. Because from what we've seen and been told of how he works it looks like that is how he would have felt about it. Showing it off as a bit of progress for their relationship, rather than just implying that Annie was desperately reading into it.
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May 19, 2021 15:58
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life_source posted:Even when you are incapable of being a suitable parent? maybe should have thought of that before killing his own wife, eh? 
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May 19, 2021 15:59
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