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Budzilla posted:This is very pathetic. Pretty funny when a foreigner comes in to Russia to rule them with an iron fist they can't stop themselves from worshiping them. Except for the part where Stalin embraced Great Russian chauvinism in a way that few actual Russians managed to do, sure.
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May 20, 2021 19:35
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at this point in history only question left is where the iron curtain will end? Belarus/poland border or Ukraine
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May 20, 2021 20:04
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You all might want to visit the actual Georgia sometimes. Stalin worship is strong there
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May 20, 2021 20:37
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What's funny is the statue of Iron Felix was originally put up as an anti stalin thing
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May 20, 2021 21:59
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Vasukhani posted:What's funny is the statue of Iron Felix was originally put up as an anti stalin thing The way things are going, the further we are from the Soviet period, the more it's going to become just a patriotic blur in Russian (and others') collective memory. Just the time when other countries respected us, and nobody cared about material possessions, only about building a better future. And, of course, when you believe that, the only reason why USSR could possibly fall is foreign influence. There are some counter-currents, both good and bad, to that view of history. Some people see Russian Empire as a better model for a Russian state, and we're so far from the time period that all the things that I said could happen with USSR, already happened in peoples' minds with Russian Empire. For some the short post-Soviet period is that idealised past of hope and freedom, which is, obviously, also extremely naïve. And then there are people who try to shift the focus from the past to the future. Still, I think that Soviet outlook is more prevalent, mainly thanks to the (often mythologised) role of USSR in WW2.
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May 20, 2021 22:46
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Oracle posted:So is Zelensky cracking under the pressure or do they have his family hostage or what? I thought he was supposed to be a good guy. Zelensky is a proxy for Kolomskyi and Russia. his family is under the direct protection of the OPU's security detail. Privat Bank's former head of security who reports directly to Igor was appointed to that role on day 1. Igor gets daily reports on family movement, and the 4 security teams are all ex-Privat guards who fled Ukraine to Israel with Igor in 2015. Therefore it is with a high degree of certainty correct, his family is held at "gunpoint". He does not really run the country, that is done by his two grey cardinals, Yermak and Sheffier. Somaen posted:Could you clarify what is the benefit of this for the ruling coalition? Seems like it's all political downsides - 1) done right before the Blinken visit, 2) when Biden is throwing out summit ideas, 3) when Ukraine needs military backing since Putin is doing the "totally normal military exercises" similar to May 2014 and 4) not long before Nord Stream 2 is finished US$2b in cash on the Naftogaz balance sheet and US$140mm/quarter in free cash flow from gas transmission schemes. Zelensky and his clique (Igor) want money, so like Yanokovich and Poroshenko the Office of the President (OPU) are rewiring the best embezzlement schemes to their "bagman", Yermak. Zelensky believes that by violating all the IMF agreement "red lines" he can negotiate the return of Privatbank to Kolomoskyi, which will dissolve the FBI case against Igor or set the country onto a IMF default a la Venezuela. So far, there has been no consequences for attempting to fire Stynik @NABU, destroying ProZorro, cancelling the lustration laws, engineering the default of the electricity grid, smuggling electricity and nuclear fuel with Russia, allowing China to embezzle Motor Sich, crashing the Yanukovich case, opening cases against the 2014 Maidan protestors and embezzling the COVID-19 EU money for Kolomoskyi highway projects through the Surkis brothers SPV. Yes, that was a fuckload to say in one sentence. As for the house view: Ukraine needs military backing and an additional 400mm in DOD hardware was sent to Ukraine in April, in addition to the 230mm line item approved in the 2020 congressional appropriations. Zelensky is fully aware that supporting Ukraine's army is separate of the reform agenda. Knowing this, Ukraine has engaged in Civil ransom where governments must "pay to play" with the administration, enabling its corruption and embezzlement schemes. A good example being the COVID-19 fund embezzlement and French railroad contracts. My assessment is that Zelensky/Portonov/Kolomoskyi/Yermak had hoped to cause as much damage to western reformers and western companies before Nuland/Blinken/Powers arrived. They had hoped to set up such unrealistic expectations for reform and NATO admission that Zelensky would be forced to "renounce" the EU and West. We saw some hints of this when Zelensky tried to shame the EU for not giving Ukraine more money for the COVID scam and blaming Poland for the COVID pandemic and red zones. We estimate the ruling coalition "Servants" wants to crash out of the IMF program hard as well as force NATO/EU to abandon Ukraine. "Ze!" can pivot back to Russia/China while selling anti-EU narratives to the people, and calling a snap election in the winter to consolidate power. This is in line with the recent uptick in anti-foreign rhetoric in the english speaking newspapers like Kyiv Post since the Naftogaz board maneuver as well as the hard selling of China as Ukraine's largest trading partner and "natural ally", which is a direct mirror of Kremlin language. Hal_2005 fucked around with this message at 07:52 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 07:39
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Seriously? I haven't kept up with Ukraine news but all of that sounds like the opposite of what people expected from zelensky administration
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May 23, 2021 00:39
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Nitrox posted:Seriously? turns out Ukraine has deep structural problems that can't be changed with a new face just wait until Putin gets carried out in a box!
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May 23, 2021 00:48
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some very normal stuff from everyones favourite cockroach dictator https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396437732700958723
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May 23, 2021 13:15
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It's hosed beyond belief. The plane wasn't just ordered to land in Minsk, there was a bomb threat, and the pilots had to land. I'm not sure what the protocol is for those situations, but they were closer to Vilnius than Minsk at that point. If, and it's not a big if now, it was Belarusian secret services who made the fake bomb threat, it's a good way to completely close off the country for all air traffic. Belarusian land border with EU is already closed 'due to covid' for the vast majority of people, so if air travel stops being an option, the only way to leave the country is going to be through Russia, which is not at all safe, and maybe through Ukraine. But something tells me the 'covid situation' there is about to get too dangerous to allow people to travel there.
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May 23, 2021 14:29
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The normal procedure is absolutely to use the nearest suitable airport, and Minsk was twice as far. This is pretty bananas. E: at least for cases of actual emergencies, I'd there's a bomb threat I suppose you do whatever the caller says mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 14:39
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On top of everything else, Lukashenko sent a MiG fighter to 'make sure the plane would land safely in Minsk'. The same fighter aircraft is supposed accompany the Ryanair plane to the border. On a scale of 1 to international terrorism, I suspect stuff like that is pretty high. E: It looks like there was a Belarusian agent on board, who first followed Roman around in Athens, and then mid-flight started a fight with the pilots, while Lukashenko graciously offered them to land in Minsk. The details are scarce, it's not clear how the bomb threat came about in all this, but it's apparent that Lukashenko's completely out of his mind. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 14:55 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 14:47
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Paladinus posted:On top of everything else, Lukashenko sent a MiG fighter to 'make sure the plane would land safely in Minsk'. The same fighter aircraft is supposed accompany the Ryanair plane to the border. On a scale of 1 to international terrorism, I suspect stuff like that is pretty high. Jesus
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May 23, 2021 15:04
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Holy poo poo. 
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May 23, 2021 15:21
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Wow, this is genius tbh. Stage a highjacking to force a plane to land in your country.
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May 23, 2021 16:14
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https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1396488174071861251 https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1396487542728368130 https://twitter.com/GermanAmbUK/status/1396488011429330949 You expect screwball stuff from Lukashenko, but this is beyond unhinged even for him.
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May 23, 2021 16:37
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https://twitter.com/rudepundit/status/1396492311853355018 What he said. https://twitter.com/yuvalweber/status/1396481924991012871 https://twitter.com/yuvalweber/status/1396486494777483264 HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 16:47 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 16:45
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Watch Loonyshenko start a loving war
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May 23, 2021 16:53
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Tell Batka that there's a bomb in his presidential palace and the only safe place is in the Hague.
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May 23, 2021 17:21
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this looks perfectly routine and not at all suspicious. https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1396414185207123972
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May 23, 2021 18:36
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:this looks perfectly routine and not at all suspicious. Russia does this poo poo sometimes when killing dissidents, so you know the FSB is involved. Most likely under the guise of being Belarussian security forces.
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May 23, 2021 19:16
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How to create a no fly zone over your country without any missiles fired
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May 23, 2021 19:55
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Russia does this poo poo sometimes when killing dissidents, so you know the FSB is involved. Most likely under the guise of being Belarussian security forces. That makes things much worse. jfc
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May 23, 2021 20:27
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Allegedly, apart from Roman Protasiewicz and his girlfriend, 4 Russian citizens didn't make it to Vilnius in the end. No information so far on who they are and what happened to them. E: Looks like one of the Russian citizens was actually Roman's girlfriend. Additionally, according to some passengers, there was no conflict onboard, only some commotion when Roman realised the plane was about to land in Minsk, and he panicked. Belarusian state TV channel showed a couple of snippets from the communication between the pilot and the airport operator that suggest that the information about the bomb threat was received by the airport by email, and that pilots chose to land in Minsk on their own, although this goes against the official statement from Ryanair. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 21:09 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 20:29
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Can't wait to see the new adjectives the EU will come up with for the numerous concerns
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May 23, 2021 20:48
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If you’re even a little bit into international and aviation law, the stunt that Luka pulled is absolutely insane. Unfortunately, if the international community fails to address this, the consequences will also be extremely far reaching. The main point if contention here is that this flight was conducted on a Polish-registered fuselage, flying between two EU airports. Technically, everything on board the airplane is in the EU, including people. Pulling the passengers outside and forcing them into another country’s territory, when it wasn’t their stated direction of travel, falls ways outside any realm of legal feasibility. Consider that even the US - not a country known for giving a poo poo about these matters - would simply close it’s borders to overflights that carried wanted people, just so they wouldn’t end up where Belarus is now. This is a big test. Poland is rattling its saber, but due to it’s actions, can’t really call on the rest if the EU, because they’ve been making GBS threads on this whole EU super state idea for years now. The EU has been completely toothless and this’ll either end up being a wake up call or a final confirmation of its diplomatic ineptitude.
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May 23, 2021 21:47
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The EU on every single possible problem or issue: Sleep The EU when a member state wants to be slightly less neoliberal: REAL poo poo. The whole thing only exists for one reason, and keeping its citizens from being kidnapped by hostile neighbouring dictatorships isn't one of them.
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May 23, 2021 22:17
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What could the EU even do? They have no air force, Belarus isn't a member and Lukashenka is already under sanctions and banned from entry. Any more sanctions and we'll have people complain how Belorussian kids have no potato any more. As far as jurisdiction, I thought the laws of the country to which the airspace belongs would apply, but checking the Tokyo convention it seems that this is only the case if they *intended* to land in Belarus.
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May 23, 2021 23:36
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Well lukashenko finally lost his loving mind
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May 24, 2021 00:09
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mobby_6kl posted:What could the EU even do? That's probably something only an international law expert can answer, but I suspect there are various ways we could gently caress with them. Maybe European countries can suspend overflight rights for Belarussian airplanes until they release the kidnapped people? National media here is certainly going apeshit and throwing the words "air piracy" around a lot. It's not being ignored for now
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May 24, 2021 00:10
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A ryanair civilain airliner was forced to land in Minsk bythreats of MIG fighter plane because a political opponent was on board! THey thretened to kill a airplane full of people if they do not land
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May 24, 2021 00:23
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Sekenr posted:Well lukashenko finally lost his loving mind Lol if you don't think lukashenko doesn't take orders directly from Putin.
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May 24, 2021 00:30
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Lol if you don't think lukashenko doesn't take orders directly from Putin. Eh, no. they fight too much
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May 24, 2021 00:34
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Lol if you don't think lukashenko doesn't take orders directly from Putin. He doesn't, really, unless he thinks following the order can profit him in some way. It's a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship. Putin doesn't like Lukashenko, but has to support him, because having a change of president in a similar neighbouring country might give his own subjects some ideas, but also, more pragmatically, Lukashenko made sure to destroy all political opposition, including pro-Russian, so he's literally the only person Russia knows fully depends on them to do at least some of the stuff they want him to do. Lukashenko, on the other hand, doesn't really want full integration with Russia, as it would completely destroy his legacy as he perceives it, and also leave him with no actual power, when Russian oligarchs start carving up Belarus.
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May 24, 2021 01:13
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This is all too insane for even Russia, Only someone as insane as lukashenko would do this, the neither the US ever stopped any soviet passenger flight going over or vice versa I don't know what to make out of this other than this is what usually starts wars and the world currently doesn't need one.
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May 24, 2021 01:39
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Celexi posted:This is all too insane for even Russia, Only someone as insane as lukashenko would do this, the neither the US ever stopped any soviet passenger flight going over or vice versa Propagandists are keen to remind everyone of the Evo Morales grounding incident as a classic 'we didn't do it, and even if we did, everyone does it anyway' argument.
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May 24, 2021 01:48
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One American was on board that plane but so far silence. This of course happened on the eve of the Biden-Putin summit.
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May 24, 2021 02:33
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GABA ghoul posted:That's probably something only an international law expert can answer, but I suspect there are various ways we could gently caress with them. Maybe European countries can suspend overflight rights for Belarussian airplanes until they release the kidnapped people? National media here is certainly going apeshit and throwing the words "air piracy" around a lot. It's not being ignored for now Could various member nations order any airline registered in their country to stay out of Belarussian airspace for safety reasons? Effectively cutting Belarus from airline service.
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May 24, 2021 06:07
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They could. Or they could close the whole of EU airspace for any flight originating out of Belarusian airspace, including overflights. The thing with overflights is they generate a tonne of money for a bunch of lucky countries. Poland is one of them, because most flights between Asia and Europe cross over Polish airspace, and are thus handled by Polish ATC. Every flight pays a fee for servicing, day in and day out. This accumulates over every hour and every day. It comes out to around 200-300 million euros a year, generated by a staff of barely over 1000. Belarus is not stretched that much on the north-south axis, but it still manages to catch a majority of the China flights. Diverting these flights would be very costly for Luka. Blocking the airspace boundaries on top of that (so a flight from Moscow to the EU would have to go over the Baltics) would be more of a prestige thing. Some precedents - North Korea (yay) and a self-imposed border ban in Israel, where basically, up until a few weeks ago, almost no flights would go through the Israeli-Jordanian border, being forced to fly all the way south over the Red Sea instead. I don’t think expelling from ICAO is an option - even North Korea is a member and the only state I can think of that isn’t is Lichtenstein, and that’s because they have 0 airports.
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May 24, 2021 07:30
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https://twitter.com/ryanairpress/status/1396543331878981632?s=21
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May 24, 2021 09:00
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