(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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when the west first started building self-driving vehicles, they quickly discovered that autonomous personal cars would not work on roads made for people. to combat the problem, western scientists spent two decades and $143 trillion to develop an autonomous car that sort of drives, parks, plays video games, and mines cryptocurrency while it charges. the chinese used a tram.
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May 20, 2021 15:40
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ToxicAcne posted:Interestingly, what you say about Cantonese is similar tio Punjabi as well. Many of the Punjabi "dialects" are actually full blown languages like Hindko and Saraiki. The same is true of man Hindi "dialects" such as Bhojpuri, or Rajasthani. I don't think that is any different than any other language. If you go to the bayous of Louisiana you're going people that are completely unintelligible like Clay Higgins.
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May 20, 2021 15:41
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mila kunis posted:what changed their minds? they seemed dead set on a maximalist "challenge every enemy on every front, piss off all our allies, defeat nordstream" till like..last month That second point is incorrect. The Biden Administration has repeatedly said they want to shore up America's alliances. The only way to stop Nordstream 2 at this point is to level crippling sanctions on German firms. Better to take the loss on this than to blow another hole in German-US relations.
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May 20, 2021 16:30
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What made the Chinese region different, is that the most of Sino-Tibetan language area continue to use the same writing even through the languages continue to naturally evolve and split into more dialects. Even Japan and Korea who speak languages outside of Sino-Tibetan family use the same Chinese writing for centuries. This is not the case for Europe, the writings and grammar of the writing split along with the languages. And don't quote me on it but I am pretty sure this didn't happen in the subcontinent either. Chinese writing has a much more loose and imprecise grammar. For example, Cantonese use extra end sentence sound to express tense or emotion, you don't really do it when you write it down on paper, you kind of translate your words into "writing" Chinese.
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May 20, 2021 16:38
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fart simpson posted:“uyghurs aren’t real chinese people. by chinese we mean han only. youre some kind of nerd for even being aware there are ethnic minorities in china” - one of my hong kong coworkers huh my family and relatives def identify as "hong kongers" and "han anything" has never been referred to or brought up in any convos that im aware of
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May 20, 2021 16:45
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Just to add, It's my understanding that there was a lot of buy in from aboriginals when the KMT reorganized along Communist Party of the Soviet Union lines and became more of a "meritocracy." Yeah the aboriginals have close ties to the blue party, and I guess historically aboriginal people vote blue. The blue party also has close ties to organized crime in taiwan, especially the ones founded by 外省人. That twitter post is right that you can't just project American political thought into other countries "so which party is the republicans and which is the democrats?". But while the sinicization of Taiwan wasn't western style settler colonialism (which happened on the island for ~100 years, ending just prior to the sinicization ramping up) I wouldn't say it wasn't a kind of settler colonialism, just that most of the settler action happened before a state was set up to manage/organize it.
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May 20, 2021 16:47
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Agrajag posted:huh my family and relatives def identify as "hong kongers" and "han anything" has never been referred to or brought up in any convos that im aware of well this guy was a real weirdo, if that helps. it came up over lunch when another coworker said she was from inner mongolia and he said “huh i thought you were chinese” and people got into it from there
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May 20, 2021 16:49
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Antonymous posted:Yeah the aboriginals have close ties to the blue party, and I guess historically aboriginal people vote blue. The blue party also has close ties to organized crime in taiwan, especially the ones founded by 外省人. That twitter post is right that you can't just project American political thought into other countries "so which party is the republicans and which is the democrats?". Yeah, most the anti-aboriginal violence was carried out by the Japanese until the 30's when they changed the policy to assimilation and made aboriginals an acknowledged class of people under the law and not just literally "savages."
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May 20, 2021 16:54
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And before that, when Taiwan was a province, or earlier part of Fujian, there were 'civilized' aboriginals on the western plains that paid taxes and I guess were somewhat integrated into Qing society, and had some cultural interaction with chinese fisherman and farmers since before the spansih/dutch. and then the mountain 'uncivilized' tribes, some of which didn't get recognition as tribes until like 2014, and even now some still lack official recognition. When the dutch left taiwan and european colonialism failed there were about 7,000 chinese living on the island. 100 years later there was over 2 million. Antonymous has issued a correction as of 17:09 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 17:06
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Antonymous posted:some of which didn't get recognition as tribes until like the 2014, and even now some still lack official recognition. a plight us cspam posters will find all too familiar…
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May 20, 2021 17:08
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ToxicAcne posted:Do people in China actually identify as Han or is regional identity a thing. Like Fujianese, Cantonese, and Mandarin are as different as Bengali, Gujarati and Hindi right? not entirely sure what's like in the motherland, but my impression is that it's largely regional. people forget china is about as big as the EU and until, recently, didn't have a tonne of domestic travel. I literally have han in my name but I'm probably only half han by blood quantum?!?! people largely think of themselves as 'chinese' first, because the cultural touchstones are fairly common (common roots in confucianism probably) I think the easiest analogy would be in the way people in the US are just 'white american'. like you might be 62% Irish or german or whatever, but it's just an interesting sidenote rather than a defining characteristic.
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May 20, 2021 17:08
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china is >90% Han. so it's a little boring to make a strong identity out of it, and there's not a strong history of ideological racism in china. There was a concern in the communist party to prevent Han Chauvinism, which is to say prevent Han cultural norms from becoming Chinese cultural norms and unintentionally wiping out ethnic minority culture and ways of life but now I guess modernization has come at odds with it a little bit. Also someone said china is the size of the EU, well, it's double the land mass and it has the population of the EU plus all of north america, south america, and australia added together. If you hear about something happening in China it's good context to think "could something like that happen on one of the four 'westernized' continents?
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May 20, 2021 17:20
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i recently learned i cant get the covid vaccine in korea because my current legal status is in limbo territory not even undocumented just limbo taking a minute to appreciate all the dumb bullshit covid measures south korea has that dont do anything like how a couple months ago they tried to round all us foreigners up for pointless covid tests and they have a blind spot like that taking another minute to longingly look over the ocean to china where i could just wait to hear the vaccine man jangle his vaccine bell on the vaccine bus like a kid waiting for the ice cream truck
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May 20, 2021 17:28
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if the foreigners are carrying disease you would think they would want you to be vaccinated first
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May 20, 2021 17:36
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https://www.bworldonline.com/taiwan-urges-govt-to-scrap-ownership-limits-on-foreigners/ Taiwan urges [Philippine] gov’t to scrap ownership limits on foreigners quote:May 19, 2021 As you might imagine, this move ISN'T being considered as foreign meddling in domestic politics, nor is it considered some kind of financial risk like the so-called "debt trap"
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May 20, 2021 17:41
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When Chinese talk about people from different parts of China, [province]ren and ethnic minority group are kind of interchangeable. Like, the most talk about group of people are "Dongbeiren" (kinda like the Florida Men of China), "Shanghairen" (the Californian?), the Guangdongren (usually in context of eating weird stuff etc), "Hui ren" (usually only in the context of food custom). I think you only really talk about "Han" in the context of ethnic tension in Xinjiang. I don't remember any ethnic tension discussion in Tibet, I don't know why. When people talk about Tibet, they only talk about travel routes mostly.
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May 20, 2021 18:46
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Antonymous posted:And before that, when Taiwan was a province, or earlier part of Fujian, there were 'civilized' aboriginals on the western plains that paid taxes and I guess were somewhat integrated into Qing society, and had some cultural interaction with chinese fisherman and farmers since before the spansih/dutch. and then the mountain 'uncivilized' tribes, some of which didn't get recognition as tribes until like 2014, and even now some still lack official recognition. The number of Chinese people living on the island in 1624, prior to Dutch colonial rule, was about 25,000.[8] During Dutch Formosa rule, between 1624 and 1662, the Dutch began to encourage large-scale Han immigration to the island for labour, mainly from the south of Fujian. It is estimated that prior to the Kingdom of Tungning (1661), the population of Taiwan was no greater than 100,000 people, and the initial Zheng army with families and retainers that settled in Taiwan is estimated to be 30,000 at minimum.[9] During Qing rule (1683–1895), the population of Han Chinese in Taiwan grew rapidly from 100,000 to ≈2.5 million, while the aboriginal population was estimated to be at least 200,000 by 1895.[10] (The plains aboriginal population is estimated to have decreased by 90% over the hundred years from 1800 to 1900.)[11] The Japanese Colonial Government performed detailed censuses every five years starting in 1905. Statistics showed a population growth rate of about 1% to 3% per year throughout Japanese rule. In 1905, the population of Taiwan was roughly 3 million; by 1940, the population had grown to 5.87 million, and after the Second World War in 1946 it numbered 6.09 million.[citation needed] https://twitter.com/notXiangyu/status/1377891994035453952 https://twitter.com/notXiangyu/status/1381715406583439367 https://twitter.com/notXiangyu/status/1381716164120879105 https://i.imgur.com/TBexXPt.mp4
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May 20, 2021 19:14
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stephenthinkpad posted:[province]ren and ethnic minority group are kind of interchangeable During this period, the Hakka were economically, socially and politically disadvantaged. For example, Li Gongzhong points out that the Hakka, due to their immigrant status, were classified as vagabond population. This meant that they were not incorporated in the household registry. In practical terms, the Hakka lacked a legal status, something which was vital in Imperial China to obtain upward social mobility, because only legal status holders were allowed to participate in the Imperial exams. In order to be registered in the household registry, they were required to jump through several stringent hoops, one of which was at least 20 years of local residence. Many Hakka tried to circumvent this law by having ‘anchor babies’ who they tried to register as locals, but their attempts, both the legal and illegal ones, were often thwarted by the Punti. Hukou (Chinese: 户口; lit. 'household individual') is a system of household registration used in mainland China. Due to its connection to social programs provided by the government, which assigns benefits based on agricultural and non-agricultural residency status (often referred to as rural and urban), the hukou system is sometimes likened to a form of caste system.[7][8][9] It has been the source of much inequality over the decades since the establishment of the People's Republic of China in 1949, as urban residents received benefits that ranged from retirement pension to education to health care, while rural citizens were often left to fend for themselves. In recent years, the central government has begun to reform the system in response to protests and a changing economic system, while some Western experts question whether these changes have been of substance.[10][11]
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May 20, 2021 19:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.bworldonline.com/taiwan-urges-govt-to-scrap-ownership-limits-on-foreigners/ The worry I would have from this is Chinese and us billionaires buying up all the property TBH, either to move money out of china and hide it from xi or for sex crimes
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May 20, 2021 19:20
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OhFunny posted:That second point is incorrect. The Biden Administration has repeatedly said they want to shore up America's alliances. The only way to stop Nordstream 2 at this point is to level crippling sanctions on German firms. Better to take the loss on this than to blow another hole in German-US relations. They also arguably tried everything else, and all that is left is sanctioning the Germans and/or active sabotage (but everyone is going to know it is the US doing it). That said, I really have a hard time seeing there be a real turn around in US-Russian relations, there is way too much bad blood at this point and certain "small" issues like Ukraine will not be solved easily. In addition, the Russians at this point smell blood in the water, and may play along with the US but not change their major strategic goals. One thing at thing at this point is that Chinese-Russian trade has swelled and there isn't a real economic incentive for Russia to "change sides" along side the other issues.
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May 20, 2021 19:52
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huhwhat posted:The number of Chinese people living on the island in 1624, prior to Dutch colonial rule, was about 25,000.[8] During Dutch Formosa rule, between 1624 and 1662, the Dutch began to encourage large-scale Han immigration to the island for labour, mainly from the south of Fujian. The dutch migrated over male laborers, the number of han chinese people permanently residing on taiwan whether 7,000 which I maybe misremembered as how many were there when the dutch/spanish arrived, or 30,000 when they left, is still only a percent or so of the 2 million that would live there 100 some years later, i.e. insignificant. Few of these people were bringing families, and if they stayed on the island, did so by joining/marrying into local tribes. wikipedia posted:When the Dutch arrived in Taiwan there was already a network of Han traders living on the island, buying merchandise (particularly deer products) from the native Formosans. This network has been estimated at some 1,000–1,500 people, almost all male, most of whom were seasonal residents in Taiwan, returning to Fujian in the off-season. Beginning in the 1640s the Dutch began to encourage large-scale immigration of Han people to Formosa, providing not only transportation from Fujian, but also oxen and seed for the new immigrants to get started in agriculture. Estimates of the numbers of Han people in Taiwan at the end of the Dutch era vary widely, from 10 to 15,000 up to 50–60,000, although the lower end of that scale seems more likely.
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May 20, 2021 20:01
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Ardennes posted:They also arguably tried everything else, and all that is left is sanctioning the Germans and/or active sabotage (but everyone is going to know it is the US doing it). quote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-26/russia-ditches-the-dollar-in-more-than-half-of-its-exports
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May 20, 2021 20:06
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There's a big motivation by Chinese irredentists to make Taiwan significantly more sinicized than it was at the time of dutch rule. For obvious reasons. But Taiwan wasn't significantly chinese until a little while after the dutch/spanish were expelled. I think the people that claim otherwise are historical revisionists motivated by modern political stances. I agree that it's not identical to white colonial settlerism but when the native pop of the island is between 100,000 and 200,000 in the late 1600s and then 2 million migrants show up within 100 years and start a government the natives have to pay taxes to, have to learn the language of, have to learn the customs of... it's not not a kind of settler colonialism either colonialism with a human face or whatever that guy is arguing still has lingering issues today on the island edit: and also english wikipedia is not a super good source on asian history. A rapper writing in english on twitter is likely a completely poo poo source on Taiwanese history lol hope I don't have to explain this Antonymous has issued a correction as of 20:15 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 20:07
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(east asia covid chat, cross posting from a different thread) So the Taiwan covid confirmed cases are blowing up. It went from tens to over 200 every day for the last 6 days. They can't do contract tracing for half of them, and it's probably heading toward a full scaled lock down soon.  The 2nd one is confirmed cases per million for the "better" Asian counties, most of the other not on the chart have way higher numbers. Also I put the fully vaccinated number next to the counties.  South Korea has been producing the AZ vaccines under license and just signed a deal to make the Moderna vaccine. Japan OTOH has only approved Pfizer and can not produce it domestically. Its confirmed rate is going up everyday and vaccinated rate is low. I think this pandemic has shown that Japan has too much bureaucracy in its system to mobilize efficiently against a crisis. I actually think a lot of Taiwan's covid government responses have the same weakness as Japan, let's see if they can get out of the current wave in one piece.
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May 20, 2021 20:07
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In the case of Japan, I would say it is more than anything a lack of leadership, and that the LDP just isn't actually having to govern and it shows. The fact that the public is absolutely against the idea of having the Olympics (80%+) and they are still pushing forward, shows how responsive they are to the public.
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May 20, 2021 20:25
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drat what's happening in Vietnam
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May 20, 2021 21:07
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so wait dongbei people are the Florida men of China? how come? didn’t get that impression when I was staying there for awhile but that was the early 2000s which is forever ago in current China development timeline
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May 20, 2021 21:36
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 Antonymous posted:There's a big motivation by Chinese irredentists to make Taiwan significantly more sinicized than it was at the time of dutch rule. For obvious reasons. Antonymous posted:edit: and also english wikipedia is not a super good source on asian history.  Antonymous posted:A rapper writing in english on twitter is likely a completely poo poo source on Taiwanese history lol hope I don't have to explain this  Antonymous posted:But Taiwan wasn't significantly chinese until a little while after the dutch/spanish were expelled. I think the people that claim otherwise are historical revisionists motivated by modern political stances.   Antonymous posted:I agree that it's not identical to white colonial settlerism but when the native pop of the island is between 100,000 and 200,000 in the late 1600s and then 2 million migrants show up within 100 years and start a government the natives have to pay taxes to, have to learn the language of, have to learn the customs of... it's not not a kind of settler colonialism either https://twitter.com/notXiangyu/status/1392829928752795648     Why have the Negrito people in Southeast Asia disappeared or waned in number where the Austronesians have settled? Did the early Austronesians commit genocide against the indigenous Negrito people during their rapid expansion? The high degree of assimilation among Austronesian, Negrito, and Papuan groups indicate that the Austronesian expansion was largely peaceful. Rather than violent displacement, the settlers and the indigenous groups absorbed each other.[96]
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May 20, 2021 22:28
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Ardennes posted:They also arguably tried everything else, and all that is left is sanctioning the Germans and/or active sabotage (but everyone is going to know it is the US doing it). While China-Russia trade is rising. Russian exports to the EU still dwarf Russian exports to China by threefold. Any understanding with the US that could result in the EU lifting it's sanctions would be a positive development.
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May 20, 2021 22:39
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I'm pretty sure the Russians are the white people of Asia.
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May 20, 2021 22:40
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At some point, I think, all (White) Westerners trying to comprehend modern China are going to fall into the "Han Chinese are the white people of Asia" trap. It's like holding green tinted glass up to your eye and observing aloud that the sky must be green.
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May 20, 2021 22:49
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If the Chinese are there white people of Asia, what are the Japanese?
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May 20, 2021 23:02
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Japanese are the white (anglo/germanic) people of Asia: relatively marginal to their respective center of civilization, piratical, went on an imperialist rampage
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May 20, 2021 23:06
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They're the British, as proven by their dead empire and fealty to the US after losing a war to them that cost them most of their colonial holdings However Japan has good food so this isn't a pure 1:1
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May 20, 2021 23:16
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Oh yeah, then why aren't they in the five eyes cool kids club?
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May 21, 2021 00:16
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OhFunny posted:While China-Russia trade is rising. Russian exports to the EU still dwarf Russian exports to China by threefold. Any understanding with the US that could result in the EU lifting it's sanctions would be a positive development. It isn’t enough for Russia to suddenly be willing to really forgo its own interests or turn against China since trade with China is accelerating so quickly. Honestly, I think it may simply that sanctions are counterproductive since the German greens have been doing well and they are already explicitly anti-nordstream 2. That said. the CDU is far from finished and I don’t know how lasting that strategy is actually going to be. That said, it is Washington’s dream to have a completely pro-US party in Berlin including influential control over the Euro. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 00:28 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 00:21
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Read this which details plans for forced sinicization in Taiwan "所謂的“撫番”即是有計畫強取各項資源以及加速推動“生番”漢化作業。" edit: if you can't read chinese it's literally "Promote "Savage/Barbarian" Han Cultural Operation" where the barbairan word is a slur "在「撫番」期間，劉銘傳對於不服統治的原住民採用武力征討，許多臺灣原住民部落不是被「破庄滅族」、「喪身滅社」，就是逃離原本的活動領域，往深山遷徙，然後將漢人移往臺灣原住民區域開墾，剝奪原住民生存空間，也導致原漢關係的緊張不斷，因此此政策之實施也可視為是清朝官方與原住民的一系列戰爭，經過原住民的抵禦，大多部落仍未讓劉銘傳輕易佔領，因此最終仍無法撼動臺灣高山族之傳統政權。" https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%96%8B%E5%B1%B1%E6%92%AB%E7%95%AA Forced labor of aboriginals by Qing government leads to revolt, which leads to a larger aboriginal uprising across the western plains. This was when the "use the barbarians to control the barbarians" policy started to fail and Fujian had to send hundreds of ships with soldiers and supplies to put down the alliance of different tribes rising up against the Han. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E7%94%B2%E8%A5%BF%E7%A4%BE%E6%8A%97%E6%B8%85%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6 Han people moved, unwelcome, onto aboriginal land, cut down their forests for warship building and started farms, and got their heads removed. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%AA%A8%E5%AE%97%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6 Qing policy to "Open the mountains, pacify the barbarians" which means settle the mountains with Han people leads to brutal oppression, finally a general beheads 100 aboriginals after they are surrounded and surrender. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8A%A0%E7%A6%AE%E5%AE%9B%E6%88%B0%E5%BD%B9 Another "Open The Mountains, Pacify the Barbarians" campaign ends in massacre https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8D%85%E9%A0%AD%E7%A4%BE%E4%B9%8B%E5%BD%B9 Another "Open The Mountains, Pacify The Barbarians" campaign ends in massacre, again https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E5%B5%99%E5%B4%81%E7%A4%BE%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6 Corrupt officials, unfair measurements and the harassment of women lead to another aboriginal uprising in eastern Taiwan. And then a reprisal for the uprising, which lead to more fighting. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E5%BA%84%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%A7%80%E9%9F%B3%E5%B1%B1%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6 Antonymous has issued a correction as of 00:36 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 00:26
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Ardennes posted:It isn’t enough for Russia to suddenly be willing to really forgo its own interests or turn against China since trade with China is accelerating so quickly.
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May 21, 2021 00:31
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https://twitter.com/jessefelder/status/1395407899942326278?s=20
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May 21, 2021 01:41
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