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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed. |
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zoux posted:It bothers me sometimes how much the Romani get overlooked as Holocaust victims. As many as half of the total European Roma population died at the hands of Nazis, but most people have no idea. I suspect part of it is that it might make modern Europeans examine their own views on the Roma people. It's not really just them that get overlooked. Really, every group that isn't Jewish does, half of Holocaust victims were something else. Not that Europe isn't horrifically racist against the Roma. Or for that matter, other itinerant groups. Oh well, at least we're not having a Romani state in India or whatever ethnically cleansing some other group and U.S. and Germany hand-wringing about it  every...every cloud and all that?
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May 20, 2021 23:01
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Kinda weird a bunch of y'all had no opinions on the Israeli massacre while it was happening and Biden was publicly repeating Likud propaganda but as soon as his administration takes credit for it, it suddenly becomes worthy of discussion If Biden's private diplomacy really had the power to force Netanyahu to behave, maybe he should've worked his magic before Israel crippled what little ability Palestine had to contain covid via assassinating doctors and bombing clinics
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May 20, 2021 23:04
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TulliusCicero posted:Columbus, Ohio is the same way. Massive progressive blue city in a Red Wasteland. Neurolimal posted:The opposition in Israel is a very fragile alliance of every non-bibi party, from the super right-wingers to the arabs to the centrists (keep in mind these are on the Israel scale of things, so the centrists are chuds and the RWers are very close to goose-stepping). I think this is the most accurate take. Bibi shatters the opposition and protects his right flank by being tough on Palestine, ensuring he stays PM and can keep dodging corruption charges. Biden may or may not have been leaning on him but doubt things would play out much differently either way.
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May 20, 2021 23:07
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Kalit posted:Maybe you should actually read the article Vorik posted:Yeah it's pretty obvious that Biden has been putting pressure on Israel in the background while publicly taking a more moderate approach. The fact that Bibi immediately came out with that announcement after Biden called him up, and then the almost immediate ceasefire agreement afterward makes it pretty obvious that Bibi was just trying to publicly save face while in reality they had to back off due to pressure from the US. It's a very shrewd tactic. Classic Biden. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. The "soft diplomacy" bullshit has been getting floated for days. Israel was going to stop the bombing sooner or later because Bibi has already maxed out his political advantage from killing Palestinian children, and bombs are expensive. You may as well give credit to a guy who yells at the clouds every morning for rain any time you feel a light drizzle.
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May 20, 2021 23:11
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If that rumor you previously listed from the article is true, Biden apparently thought it would be more effective to pressure Netanyahu himself and not through the UN Security Council. And it worked.
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The Sean posted:US blocked a ceasefire agreement = US supports a ceasefire, gotcha. Makes complete sense. I'm not particularly happy with how the administration has conducted things and personally think a ceasefire is woefully inadequate at this point, but I feel like we probably shouldn't be conflating "unenforceable UN Resolutions asking Israel to please accept a ceasefire" with "actual ceasefire agreements." I mean UN Resolutions are famous for essentially just being sternly worded letters, right?
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May 20, 2021 23:12
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The last Palestinian Israeli hot conflict went for 50 days, this one went for 10. Anyway you guys are asserting this “diplomacy did nothing” thing with zero evidence, so we’ll have to see what reporting turns up in the upcoming days and weeks. I imagine it’ll be something one way or the other.
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May 20, 2021 23:15
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Inferior Third Season posted:Post hoc ergo propter hoc. I came to my conclusion from the timeline thus far, and the actions of the countries in question. I trust those facts over some guy yelling on the internet that it totally wasn't the diplomatic powers of the most powerful country on earth.
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May 20, 2021 23:21
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zoux posted:The last Palestinian Israeli hot conflict went for 50 days, this one went for 10.
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May 20, 2021 23:23
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Spiritus Nox posted:I'm not particularly happy with how the administration has conducted things and personally think a ceasefire is woefully inadequate at this point, but I feel like we probably shouldn't be conflating "unenforceable UN Resolutions asking Israel to please accept a ceasefire" with "actual ceasefire agreements."
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May 20, 2021 23:40
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Kirios posted:Dang say what you will about the man, Biden is a hell of a politician. Putting up a facade of supporting Isreal (which I don't love, but is the US's official stance) while being very harsh on them backstage is something that Trump could have never done with the sophistication that Biden did. Stopping another episode in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by providing tacit legal cover, diplomatic cover, media censorship, billions in direct munitions used for the massacre and restricting Americans' right to free speech sure is a fine line to walk. Thank you president Biden!
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May 20, 2021 23:41
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Kinda weird a bunch of y'all had no opinions on the Israeli massacre while it was happening and Biden was publicly repeating Likud propaganda but as soon as his administration takes credit for it, it suddenly becomes worthy of discussion I think you might have wandered into the wrong thread. Or you're just making up things because you're frustrated and want people to directly rail against.
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May 20, 2021 23:46
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Jaxyon posted:I think you might have wandered into the wrong thread. I mean you can click the question mark button of the people cheering about this diplomatic masterstroke if you want and see for yourself. I am not talking about you
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May 20, 2021 23:57
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zoux posted:The last Palestinian Israeli hot conflict went for 50 days, this one went for 10. Anyway you guys are asserting this “diplomacy did nothing” thing with zero evidence, so we’ll have to see what reporting turns up in the upcoming days and weeks. I imagine it’ll be something one way or the other. You have just as much evidence that Biden's private diplomacy actually did anything, and that seems to me to be the positive assertion. I don't have to prove that the emperor doesn't make the sun rise in the morning.
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May 21, 2021 00:03
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Fister Roboto posted:You have just as much evidence that Biden's private diplomacy actually did anything, and that seems to me to be the positive assertion. I don't have to prove that the emperor doesn't make the sun rise in the morning. I have reporting asserting it. You have "nuh uh". But I don't think that there's any evidence that would convince those who don't want to be convinced.
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May 21, 2021 00:07
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Here's an interesting article on Biden's background with Israel. https://www.vox.com/22442000/biden-israel-gaza-hamas-history-policy Based on that and everything we've seen so far, it's clear he's not going to be super hard on them, but it seems like he has his limits too, e.g. like when they started settlements. The private diplomacy makes sense IMO, the UN resolutions are worthless anyway so that's how I'd approach it too. Of course whether or not this actually happened or Bibi is just satisfied with the number of dead civilians, that's another matter.
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May 21, 2021 00:08
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Spiritus Nox posted:I'm not particularly happy with how the administration has conducted things and personally think a ceasefire is woefully inadequate at this point, but I feel like we probably shouldn't be conflating "unenforceable UN Resolutions asking Israel to please accept a ceasefire" with "actual ceasefire agreements." Yeah, let's not try at all and give up from the start. You're right.
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May 21, 2021 00:09
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Fister Roboto posted:You have just as much evidence that Biden's private diplomacy actually did anything, and that seems to me to be the positive assertion. I don't have to prove that the emperor doesn't make the sun rise in the morning. There's plenty of evidence. The timeline of events, the reports on communications and the actions of Israel directly after Biden pressured them. Also the entire modern history of the United States as the world leader and forefront power in diplomatic relations. Your argument (and the others also claiming it) is basically "Because I said so." If you want to convince people that Biden's pressure had absolutely no effect then come up with some hard evidence otherwise you're just an old man yelling at the clouds.
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May 21, 2021 00:10
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zoux posted:I have reporting asserting it. You have "nuh uh". But I don't think that there's any evidence that would convince those who don't want to be convinced. Where do you think the reporting came from? Do you think Bibi told them that? e: phone posting TheIncredulousHulk fucked around with this message at 00:45 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 00:13
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I'm persuadable. If there's good reporting that Biden didn't do poo poo actually and Bibi quit because he felt like it, fine. I've already allowed for as much. But I'm not going to dismiss stuff out of hand because it disagrees with my priors like some Fox News grandpa. Also there's no rush to declare that, aha, once again Biden is a Hitler. Wait a week and we'll have a better picture of the presidents hitlerness.
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May 21, 2021 00:16
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I mean you can click the question mark button of the people cheering about this diplomatic masterstroke if you want and see for yourself. I am not talking about you You didn't quote anybody in your post and you said "a bunch of y'all" as if people deciding that USPOL was full of "the posters who disagree with my obviously good take" isn't a daily occurance. If you meant one person, quote them. If you meant "a bunch of the thread" then show that it was a bunch of the thread. zoux posted:I'm persuadable. If there's good reporting that Biden didn't do poo poo actually and Bibi quit because he felt like it, fine. But I'm not going to dismiss stuff out of hand because it disagrees with my priors. Biden's admin blocked a ceasefire resolution 5 times in a row. I mean it's possible that he was doing that so he could broker one on his terms but there's no evidence and that doesn't at all appear to be what happened. It looks like Egypt did it.
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May 21, 2021 00:17
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Would a UN cease fire resolution have led to a cease fire, do you think
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May 21, 2021 00:19
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zoux posted:I have reporting asserting it. You have "nuh uh". But I don't think that there's any evidence that would convince those who don't want to be convinced. You have reporting of the White House's assertions, not an actual causal link. Vorik posted:There's plenty of evidence. The timeline of events, the reports on communications and the actions of Israel directly after Biden pressured them. Also the entire modern history of the United States as the world leader and forefront power in diplomatic relations. Your argument (and the others also claiming it) is basically "Because I said so." If you want to convince people that Biden's pressure had absolutely no effect then come up with some hard evidence otherwise you're just an old man yelling at the clouds. The timeline could be entirely coincidental. And I'm not trying to prove that Biden had absolutely no effect - I never said that. I'm just rejecting the assertion that it definitely did. zoux posted:I'm persuadable. If there's good reporting that Biden didn't do poo poo actually and Bibi quit because he felt like it, fine. I've already allowed for as much. But I'm not going to dismiss stuff out of hand because it disagrees with my priors like some Fox News grandpa. Don't be an rear end. This is completely unfalsifiable and you know it.
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May 21, 2021 00:19
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zoux posted:I'm persuadable. If there's good reporting that Biden didn't do poo poo actually and Bibi quit because he felt like it, fine. I've already allowed for as much. But I'm not going to dismiss stuff out of hand because it disagrees with my priors like some Fox News grandpa. i wouldnt be shocked if it was a bunch of poo poo. Bibi feeling he murdered enough people to keep power until he dies or needs another polling boost, mix with behind the scenes from State department and biden probably, mixed with the palastian workers strike and other domestic issues. i do think biden and co did poo poo behind the scenes but i still think his view of the horror show is loving bad but a plurality of the US holds similar views so thats hosed. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 00:21
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zoux posted:Would a UN cease fire resolution have led to a cease fire, do you think I dunno maybe let one pass and find out Or are you going with "saying he supported a ceasefire out loud would jeopardize the ceasefire i'm claiming he wanted" because dude
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May 21, 2021 00:26
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haveblue posted:I think you're going to have to decide whether you count only intentional, knowing racism stemming from hate in the heart (mens reacism) or unconscious, unintentional racism stemming from being brought up in a systemically racist society, because that's the difference between a fairly small number that's gone down a lot over time and literally everyone, everywhere, for the foreseeable future. There isn't really anything in between. I didn't see this get much of a response, so I want you to know that I laughed out loud at "mens reacism" and will be adding it to my lexicon.
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May 21, 2021 00:26
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Jaxyon posted:You didn't quote anybody in your post and you said "a bunch of y'all" as if people deciding that USPOL was full of "the posters who disagree with my obviously good take" isn't a daily occurance. quote:Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said his security cabinet had voted unanimously in favour of a "mutual and unconditional" Gaza truce proposed by Egypt, but added that the hour of implementation had yet to be agreed. quote:Amid growing global alarm at the bloodshed, Biden had urged Netanyahu to seek de-escalation, while Egypt, Qatar and the United Nations sought to mediate. Yeah, looks like Reuters is reporting it was Egypt who spearheaded the cease fire. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-official-predicts-ceasefire-soon-israel-gaza-fight-goes-2021-05-19/
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May 21, 2021 00:31
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Jaxyon posted:You didn't quote anybody in your post and you said "a bunch of y'all" as if people deciding that USPOL was full of "the posters who disagree with my obviously good take" isn't a daily occurance. That's 100% gonna get me probed for posting about posters. Even being vague I still might get probed anyway All I can really say is that I checked several just to make sure I wasn't being crazy, and you specifically were not one of them since you have both posted about it here and elsewhere and expressed decent takes on it
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May 21, 2021 00:33
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Grammarchist posted:Project Veritas is going to come up with audio of Joe telling Bibi "Listen here, Fat" while threatening to cut off arms sales and it'll be all we ever hear about from the media for the rest of his term. God I wish.
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May 21, 2021 00:43
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The Sean posted:Yeah, let's not try at all and give up from the start. You're right. Not even remotely what I said
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May 21, 2021 00:44
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Kirios posted:Dang say what you will about the man, Biden is a hell of a politician. Putting up a facade of supporting Isreal (which I don't love, but is the US's official stance) while being very harsh on them backstage is something that Trump could have never done with the sophistication that Biden did. and he managed to pull off a 735 million dollar arms sale to Israel at the same time! now that's a heckin epic win!
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May 21, 2021 00:45
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romanowski posted:and he managed to pull off a 735 million dollar arms sale to Israel at the same time! now that's a heckin epic win! The arms deal occurred earlier.
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May 21, 2021 00:54
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Blastedhellscape posted:Growing up in the 90's I remember lots of movies and other media where it was hammered in that big city crime was out of control and only getting worse, and if you stepped down the wrong alley you would instantly get accosted and mugged. poo poo like Falling Down, the beginning of Demolition Man, and all the bad knockoffs of Boyz n the Hood, not to mention stuff going back earlier like the Death Wish and Dirty Harry movies. It's really hard to overstate how pervasive this sort of idea was and, I think, how much it impacted the Baby Boomer outlook in general, not just people in small towns. Everybody knew that crime was utterly out of control and was only ever going to get worse. "black culture" and Welfare were widely held to be the leading causes. And this wasn't just some passing talking points, they were the foundational beliefs of a lot of people who came of political age during the era. Telling them that crime has been going down for decades is like telling them that gravity stopped working. It's not directly related to crime but look at how many sitcoms had theme songs were the essential message was "Everything is getting worse but at least we have this family/bar/whatever." That poo poo got ground in deep.
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May 21, 2021 01:06
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Vorik posted:Yeah it's pretty obvious that Biden has been putting pressure on Israel in the background while publicly taking a more moderate approach. The fact that Bibi immediately came out with that announcement after Biden called him up, and then the almost immediate ceasefire agreement afterward makes it pretty obvious that Bibi was just trying to publicly save face while in reality they had to back off due to pressure from the US. It's a very shrewd tactic. Classic Biden. This doesn’t belong in USnews, maybe make a thread for USfanfic
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May 21, 2021 01:11
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https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1395542729715634179 Has the AP always been run by cowards? Is Zeke Miller calling the shots right now? They just lost their exec. editor to the Washington Post so afaik they're in the middle of a search for a new one, so I want to know at what level this decision was made. The same rag that ran that absurd AOC parking story got a hold of this and then  That statement by Cotton is unreal. Wilder will land on her feet, outlets are going to be falling over themselves to right this wrong, and in the end this will probably be great for her career - but still, Jesus loving Christ, it should have never happened the AP should've laughed the Free Beacon out of the room. They just had their goddamn offices bombed into nothing by the IDF, and unbelievable assault on the press and almost certainly to obfuscate reporting of the horrors on the ground. Now they're rolling over for that side, humiliating their organization and just pissing me the gently caress off. I think the press can be real whiny about access and they love to get up on the cross at the easiest opportunity but treating a reporter like this is outrageous. Your editor is supposed to have your back.
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May 21, 2021 02:01
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House dems, in a surprising show of discipline, voted down a republican's motion to replenish the Iron Dome. Apparently Biden pledged to do it anyways, either before or after the vote. Does Biden have the ability to widen the money spigot independent of congress?
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May 21, 2021 02:03
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zoux posted:Your editor is supposed to have your back. Since when is the boss not the enemy?
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May 21, 2021 02:04
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1395542729715634179 "Cancel culture" for me, but not for thee.
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May 21, 2021 02:11
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Kirios posted:Dang say what you will about the man, Biden is a hell of a politician. Putting up a facade of supporting Isreal (which I don't love, but is the US's official stance) while being very harsh on them backstage is something that Trump could have never done with the sophistication that Biden did. Yeah blocking multiple ceasefire resolutions at the UN and selling Israel more weapons, what a great guy!
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May 21, 2021 02:14
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:That's 100% gonna get me probed for posting about posters. Even being vague I still might get probed anyway Stop. Argue with specific posters, not "the thread".
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May 21, 2021 02:35
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AP got bodycam footage of Louisiana cops executing Ronald Greene in 2019. It's hard to watch. https://apnews.com/article/ronald-greene-death-louisiana-eca021d8a54ec73598dd72b269826f7a IK Edit: the video does not autoplay, it's a ways down the page, and it is really, really bad. It's a guy being tortured and killed by the police while begging for his life Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 02:38
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