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CoolCab posted:do nvidia typically continue to produce FE cards after launch? i thought with the fiasco with their website on the 30 launch and moving the FE sales off to best buy might indicate they've gone cool on them. No, FE cards were pretty explicitly introduced as an early adopter thing that they stop making after a while.
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May 21, 2021 16:08
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Kinda sucks cause afaik, the fe is the only true 2 slot 3080 aside from water cooled or blowers for those that need that for compatibility reasons.
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May 21, 2021 16:16
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VorpalFish posted:Kinda sucks cause afaik, the fe is the only true 2 slot 3080 aside from water cooled or blowers for those that need that for compatibility reasons. Edit: I think this is the biggest offender: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-3070-gaming-x-trio/3.html Why does it have to be so tall 
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May 21, 2021 17:32
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In the Maxwell and prior days, reference cards were limited run. They are also limited run for AMD. With the move to Founders Edition branding at the pascal launch, NVIDIA also started committing to ongoing production throughout the generation (this was a change specifically requested by system integrators like Falcon Northwest). Maybe that’s changed now, or maybe it’s just going to be very limited, but that is explicitly what they claimed when they started using that branding, that it was going to continue for the life of the product. edit, contemporary source: quote:Craftsmanship = Price Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:50 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 17:39
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Paul MaudDib posted:With the move to Founders Edition branding at the pascal launch, NVIDIA also started committing to ongoing production throughout the generation. Maybe that’s changed now, or maybe it’s just going to be very limited, but that is explicitly what they claimed when they started using that branding, that it was going to continue for the life of the product.
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May 21, 2021 18:16
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i cannot imagine they'll continue to sell unrestricted cards at RRP after enforcing this on the partners. unless they're existing stock they're sitting on for whatever reason, the manufacturing complexity alone - i can't imagine they'll be forcing their partners into LHR and hypocritically ignoring it themselves.
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May 21, 2021 18:18
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Another sign you may see more used cards: https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/1395099227475243008 China has called for a "crack down on Bitcoin mining and trading behavior" within the past couple hours so we're seeing another drop which resembles the reaction when Coinbase went offline a few days ago. The fact that mining is being called out specifically instead of just trading is encouraging. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 18:30 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 18:25
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CoolCab posted:do nvidia typically continue to produce FE cards after launch? i thought with the fiasco with their website on the 30 launch and moving the FE sales off to best buy might indicate they've gone cool on them. They kept producing Nvidia branded 2000-series cards for that entire generation, although not all of them got the “Founder’s Edition” tag. I think they more or less dropped it during the Super refresh cycle.
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May 21, 2021 18:34
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There are provinces in China also asking people to report hidden crypto farms, so it looks like China is serious about stamping it out. The price of Ethereum is also continuing to fall, it's below $2,500 now after being $3,500 at the start of the week. https://twitter.com/jessefelder/status/1395407899942326278 I know it's always premature to talk about the boom being over before miners actually start liquidating cards but UK sites are starting to get more and more stock available. Still massively overpriced but it's increasingly looking like at the very least prices are hitting a point where people aren't willing to pay, which might mean scalpers start to move on.
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May 21, 2021 18:44
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Aha! Turns out one of my RAM modules was slightly loose, and that was glitching things up and creating the framerate issues. The coil whine is still there, but the only time I hear it is in the Hitman 2 menu, which for some reason decides it needs to run at 2000 fps and causes the graphics card fans to hit max RPM as well... I'll just chalk that up to a bad menu screen and use vsync with Hitman. The card is nice and quiet otherwise, even in demanding games like Control. Thanks for the help!
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May 21, 2021 18:53
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all those lil mom and pop scalper operations have time pressures too, they're likely paying for bot access but even if they aren't it represents an investment that might become increasingly challenging to cash out with a profit, assuming things continue in that direction.
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May 21, 2021 18:56
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I hope 30 series cards actually do become more available soon, I'm still using a 1070 with a couple case fans strapped to the heatsink from when the original fans died a couple years ago. That solution works well enough that I didn't feel the need to replace it with a 20 series card. It actually cools the card better than the stock Zotac fans did, plus it matches my CPU fan  .
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May 21, 2021 19:02
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CoolCab posted:all those lil mom and pop scalper operations I’m thinking of that American Gothic painting but instead of a pitchfork it’s a bundle of invoices.
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May 21, 2021 19:06
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Nice Van My Man posted:Aha! Turns out one of my RAM modules was slightly loose, and that was glitching things up and creating the framerate issues. The coil whine is still there, but the only time I hear it is in the Hitman 2 menu, which for some reason decides it needs to run at 2000 fps and causes the graphics card fans to hit max RPM as well... I'll just chalk that up to a bad menu screen and use vsync with Hitman. The card is nice and quiet otherwise, even in demanding games like Control. Hooray! Glad you didn't have a faulty GPU that you'd have to RMA.
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May 21, 2021 19:40
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If the scalpers are paying MSRP for them it's very hard to lose money on them, they'll always sell for MSRP or so, at least in the timespans we're thinking of. A lot might just be returnable to the retailer within 30-60 days if sealed. The aftermarket ones will potentially be cheap, and the bottom should absolutely fall out of the $450 1070 non supers
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May 21, 2021 20:02
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Nice Van My Man posted:Aha! Turns out one of my RAM modules was slightly loose, and that was glitching things up and creating the framerate issues. The coil whine is still there, but the only time I hear it is in the Hitman 2 menu, which for some reason decides it needs to run at 2000 fps and causes the graphics card fans to hit max RPM as well... I'll just chalk that up to a bad menu screen and use vsync with Hitman. The card is nice and quiet otherwise, even in demanding games like Control. It feels so good when you finally find the cause of an issue and it's not something broken!
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May 21, 2021 20:03
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bus hustler posted:If the scalpers are paying MSRP for them it's very hard to lose money on them, they'll always sell for MSRP or so, at least in the timespans we're thinking of. A lot might just be returnable to the retailer within 30-60 days if sealed. The aftermarket ones will potentially be cheap, and the bottom should absolutely fall out of the $450 1070 non supers Even if they sold them at MSRP or returned them they've still be in the hole for several hundred dollars a month in botting fees though, right?
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May 21, 2021 20:20
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Hoping I can somehow eventually snag a hydro copper 3080 or something
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May 21, 2021 20:21
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blunt posted:Even if they sold them at MSRP or returned them they've still be in the hole for several hundred dollars a month in botting fees though, right? Yeah, these scalpers are spending hundreds of dollars to lease the bots they need to get cards. So selling at MSRP or returning stock isn't breaking even, it's a massive loss. They need to sell above MSRP to just break even.
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May 21, 2021 20:34
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blunt posted:Even if they sold them at MSRP or returned them they've still be in the hole for several hundred dollars a month in botting fees though, right? any loans they took on a "sure thing", either from other people or from funds earmarked for future expenses, typically accrue some kind of interest or require constant repayment. risk, of getting robbed themselves or scammed or getting their eBay or w/e balance locked behind a dispute. potentially even the risk of legal problems for the shady poo poo they're paying for - I can't imagine the botters are the most clean handed bunch when it comes to using botnets, illicit or fradulent access or w/e. when the arse falls out those who were taking the most risks wind up so underwater they firesale and that ripples through the pricing until everyone winds up out of business. idk if that's what's gonna happen tho.
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May 21, 2021 20:39
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Nice Van My Man posted:Aha! Turns out one of my RAM modules was slightly loose, and that was glitching things up and creating the framerate issues. The coil whine is still there, but the only time I hear it is in the Hitman 2 menu, which for some reason decides it needs to run at 2000 fps and causes the graphics card fans to hit max RPM as well... I'll just chalk that up to a bad menu screen and use vsync with Hitman. The card is nice and quiet otherwise, even in demanding games like Control. You always gotta press down harder on those ram modules than you think you need to.
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May 21, 2021 22:08
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mA posted:So apparently, Nvidia FE cards won't have the LHR nerf on them. The resale/scalped value of founders edition cards might go through the roof since they'll be the only ampere cards that will still be useful for mining. Well, that sucks for me - the 3080 FE is the only 3080 that would fit in my case (Thermaltake Core v1) and I think that might even be true of the 3070s? Everyone loves 2.2 slot cards this gen. Stickman fucked around with this message at 22:42 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 22:40
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Small cases are cool and all I guess, but they really do not seem worth all the hassle. I've got a Node 302 on my secondary rig that I squeezed a 1080ti into, and that sucked bad enough. Can't imagine working in anything smaller.
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May 21, 2021 22:45
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Anybody who has done a deshroud, how did you fasten the fans to the sink? Just zip ties or?
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May 21, 2021 22:48
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Anybody who has done a deshroud, how did you fasten the fans to the sink? Just zip ties or? Just zip ties work great, yeah.
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May 21, 2021 22:49
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Enos Cabell posted:Small cases are cool and all I guess, but they really do not seem worth all the hassle. Granted, the Node 202 has the entire backplate side of the GPU chamber unventilated and there's absolutely no exhaust solution. Newer SFF cases make sure there's open air all around the GPU. The Sliger CL530 is a much improved version of the Node 202 concept.
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May 21, 2021 22:55
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Enos Cabell posted:Small cases are cool and all I guess, but they really do not seem worth all the hassle. Outside of the width requirement, the Core v1 is actually pretty great gpu-wise. The gpu draws air directly from outside the case and the case/cpu fans vent waste heat directly back out, so no weird heat pocket like the Node 202. Temperatures are comparable to nice mid-towers and I don't go ham with overclocking or anything. There are a bunch of other nice smaller cases with decent gpu airflow like the Lian Li Tu150, but I'm hesitant to switch because the Core V1 fits perfectly in a nook on my desk and I don't think there are any good cube cases that support 2.2-slot gpus. So yeah, I guess it's a hassle now
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May 21, 2021 22:57
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Spacedad posted:You always gotta press down harder on those ram modules than you think you need to. EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A DIMM INTO THE SLOT. ITS DDR4 AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE OVERCLOCK ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, ASROCK.
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May 21, 2021 23:30
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Stickman posted:Outside of the width requirement, the Core v1 is actually pretty great gpu-wise. The gpu draws air directly from outside the case and the case/cpu fans vent waste heat directly back out, so no weird heat pocket like the Node 202. Temperatures are comparable to nice mid-towers and I don't go ham with overclocking or anything. There are a bunch of other nice smaller cases with decent gpu airflow like the Lian Li Tu150, but I'm hesitant to switch because the Core V1 fits perfectly in a nook on my desk and I don't think there are any good cube cases that support 2.2-slot gpus. I have the similar but larger Core v21 micro ATX case. They are really nice. 
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May 21, 2021 23:51
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Anybody who has done a deshroud, how did you fasten the fans to the sink? Just zip ties or? xposting from the SFF thread, I joined a load of zip ties together and ran that around all the fans so they're all held together. Then 3 more zip ties to hold the whole nerdy thing to the heat sink. I redid the thermal paste as well which I think helped a load. It's way quieter and somewhat cooler than the stock setup. The Dan-A4 has been a great case but can only take a 2.2 slot GPU.
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May 22, 2021 00:16
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Ugh, I should have gotten a GPU first and built around it instead of getting all my other components... Is it common for folks to engage in GPU trade to cover different needs given the shortages all around?
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May 22, 2021 01:15
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To be a bit of a wet blanket I think the "giant GPU crash imminent because of one down week" may be wishful thinking. In the last crash it took a prolonged period before miners sold off their GPUs, miners held onto them far past the point they really should have based on the actual mining profit. Miners don't sell their hardware instantly because of one bad day or one bad week. A lot of the really big farms also have very cheap electricity (hydro/stolen/etc) and will continue mining until later in the year. EIP-1559 may change this dynamic somewhat, since there's a predictable reduction in profit coming in the near-term, but I think a lot of them are probably going to wait and see what happens. It's entirely possible that ethereum prices go up after EIP-1559 takes effect - it is a change that will introduce a deflationary element and deflation causes price increases over time. There is also a lot of uncertainty around EIP-1559 and the switchover, and people may be more confident -> price goes up. If the increase in ethereum prices is larger than the reduction due to gas, mining profit may still go up, or at least significantly offset some of the "intended" change. In the short-term mining profit is actually doing fine. Right now a 3080 is mining $8.50 per day. Some of that is due to elevated gas fees - people try to move money to buy/sell when prices are going up or down rapidly and will pay very high gas fees to do it. On Tuesday the average price of an ethereum transaction spiked to around $70 due to those gas fees, and mining profit was almost $20 a day until the gas fees settled down. That is the element that EIP-1559 is changing, gas fees will no longer go to miners, they will be destroyed (that's the deflationary part). So the "high fee" days are a short term thing, but on the other hand the "low fee" days are representative of what mining will be like after EIP-1559 and it's still quite profitable. I'm not really sure how to do the math there but I suspect that even without gas/post-EIP-1559, a 3080 is still mining well above $5 a day after electricity at current prices. China going after mining farms reduces the difficulty level, and actually makes it more profitable for everyone else to mine. It certainly adds a general element of chaos, just like the EIP-1559 change, and everyone is racing the PoS switchover Sometime Next Year (for the last 4 years running), but tbh the biggest mid-term threat to mining profits are actually the chinese farms, difficulty will increase much slower (and probably drop in the near-term) if china is successful. A couple weeks ago when one province (just one) in china had a power outage Bitcoin hash rates dropped by 8%, Ethereum is less centralized but China still controls a ton of it and taking that offline will drive profits back up again. Finally, I think people overestimate what a "crash" really looks like. Before the mining craze in 2017, you could buy an RX 480 8GB for about $150-175, and a 1080 Ti was about $650. Afterwards, an RX 480 8GB bottomed out around $100-125, and 1080 Ti bottomed out around $450 (absolute lowest was $400 but it was pretty transient and pulled back up to $450). So really we are talking about a 30% drop in prices, after a mining boom that lasted a year and a half. This boom has not lasted a year and a half, so there is not that giant buildup of inventory either, this one will be a smaller reduction in % terms, and there are generally other things pushing up prices from the pre-mining levels as well (tariffs and misc chip shortages). (This is fundamentally one of the things I think Linus is being dishonest about with his "cheap ex-mining cards next year is better for gamers than a reduction in a miner demand now" thing - the price drop just wasn't that big. Nobody could buy a GPU for a year and a half, and in return you got... 30% off the pre-mining prices, on a card that had been run for a year and a half, and now they don't come with a warranty either (since transferrable warranties were almost entirely dropped in 2018). And prices used to come down throughout the generation before that, Turing was where NVIDIA decided to enforce MSRP with an iron fist, before that prices dropped significantly across the generation. 1080 went from ~$750 at launch down to a bottom of around $400-450 (for a new aftermarket card with full warranty) in early 2017 even before 1080 Ti launched (prices were already below the new MSRP when they did the MSRP change, it was a recognition of conditions in the market). 1080 Ti and others likely would have seen a significant drop in prices anyway, likely nearly as big as the post-mining-crash discount. And of course you're losing a year and a half of the generation, which means it's 30% off a card that is about to be replaced by something newer and better anyway.) A scalper who bought at a store MSRP (so, ~$1000 for a 3080) is in absolutely no danger of being underwater any time soon. A week ago 3080s were selling for $2600 and even if they dip you'll easily be able to get $2000 for it, they were selling for $2200 a month ago when prices were back in this range. You'd have to pay for ebay fees and so on of course - but there is a lot of room before they're underwater relative to what they paid+selling costs. If you're buying prebuilts and stripping them for the GPU then maybe your cost basis is higher but the PC itself is still worth something too, even after you strip the GPU. Unless they were doing something barely profitable before, being underwater is not a real concern. Anyway, long story short, I don't think it's time to start counting your chickens yet. Even if the current prices hold, I think this is more of a "rein in the worst of the 4x-MSRP insanity" type drop, not a "trigger miners to panic sell and everyone gets a 3080 for $500" situation. The tariffs mean that MSRPs are effectively permanently increased at this point and I don't think there's any chance that the used market will drop below the new MSRPs (eg $1000 for 3080) in the near term. The LHR may trigger price reductions in new card purchases but if the old cards are still mining >$5 a day there's no reason for miners to actively sell them. If ethereum went to zero tomorrow and stayed there, with the combination of new production and older cards I think you probably would see LHR cards actually hit (new) MSRP for a change, and actually be available in stores, but there are a lot of factors pushing prices up in general right now. The tariffs don't seem like they're going away (I was wrong on that one  ) and the production problems mean that supply isn't going to be amazing either. The LHR cards will definitely stabilize at a lower price than the current FHR cards (I speculated maybe $1700 or so before this dip), and a minor crash in mining like this one will help push FHR cards down a bit as well, but it's not going to be a massive flood unless the crash gets significantly deeper.This is one reason I'm in favor of the LHR cards/mining brake - I don't think it is as much of a "sure thing" that mining fixes itself (price crash, or EIP-1559) in the short term as other people seem to. The PoS switchover will fix it when and if it happens - but there will eventually be some other GPU mining coin too (and right now the LHR does nothing about any coin except ethereum). Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 02:42
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Another massive Zotac drop just like last Friday but now it's back to the old system without the queue. Seems like these large Friday drops might become a regular thing.
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May 22, 2021 02:48
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lol thinking you have a chance with zotac https://wccftech.com/exclusive-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-and-rtx-3070-availability-details/ looks like 70 ti is coming very shortly after 80ti
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May 22, 2021 03:32
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Alan Smithee posted:lol thinking you have a chance with zotac Zotac is by far the easiest place to get a card for “msrp”, but you have to learn the ropes. First card is hard, but once you get the hang of it...
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May 22, 2021 03:38
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Alan Smithee posted:lol thinking you have a chance with zotac  I used to think that too but it's a lot easier when they drop around 500 GPUs at once.
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May 22, 2021 03:51
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Zotac is how I got my 3070. One of the only options other than Best Buy for not-botters. Just gotta get lucky with the cloudflare BS and then have the direct links for each step in the express PayPal checkout process.
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May 22, 2021 05:24
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Paul MaudDib posted:I think the "giant GPU crash imminent because of one down week" may be wishful thinking.
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May 22, 2021 05:32
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Zero VGS posted:EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A DIMM INTO THE SLOT. ITS DDR4 AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE OVERCLOCK ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, ASROCK. 'Who is saying they can't slam a ram slot in at optimal pressure? Show yourself, weakling.' Paul MaudDib posted:To be a bit of a wet blanket I think the "giant GPU crash imminent because of one down week" may be wishful thinking. I think almost everyone knows that a GPU 'crash' happening if it does happen is probably still gonna be months away and would need more sustained damage than what's happened so far. Well that and there'd need to be a bigass surge in GPU supply which right now is iffy af. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 05:46 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 05:44
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yeah i'm not expecting this to happen and certainly not any time soon, just observing that those are the pressures on the small scalping operations and that, if poo poo really went south that's what i would expect in any market. i've been saying for awhile even if mining had never been invented this year would have been a total clusterfuck. still, good anaylsis.
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May 22, 2021 13:10
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