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Victoria 2 was clearly a game where you played a European power, with the exceptions of the USA and Japan (the later only because you could reach success by doing your hardest to pretend to be European). It was a good game, but it wasn't hiding anything about who you were meant to be playing as and maybe a bit (or a lot) of the mindset of the people who developed the game (uncivilized being a serious word used from effetively all of Africa).
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May 22, 2021 18:36
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What is the Third E-state?, by Abbélle Delphine
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May 22, 2021 18:41
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Mans posted:Victoria 2 was clearly a game where you played a European power, with the exceptions of the USA and Japan (the later only because you could reach success by doing your hardest to pretend to be European). I think it's to it's credit that the game allows you to so internalize the thinking at the time that you end up commiting untold atrocities just to gain access to luxury furniture or to show up a rival. If you ever stop to think about the actions you're taking in the game you quickly realize you've become histories greatest monster without thinking about it.
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May 22, 2021 19:20
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i killed 80 million once trying to hold france-uk-mega-germany together as a communist bloc
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May 22, 2021 19:24
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Gaius Marius posted:I think it's to it's credit that the game allows you to so internalize the thinking at the time that you end up commiting untold atrocities just to gain access to luxury furniture or to show up a rival. This. You start wars and fight over diplomatic influence in the name of markets and raw resources. A random crisis can be a flashpoint for a world war not because anyone gives a poo poo about the crisis, but because it pits one alliance bloc against another, and neither wants to back down or one side really wants a war.
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May 22, 2021 20:47
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In v2 we made it so backing down costs more and more as the game went on, making later crises more likely to lead to war - especially if you were one of the GPs propped on by prestige. I hope V3 has similar! Another thing which I made which I hope V3 also has is local production chains, so you get a bit of a bonus making steel if you produce iron or coal (or more if both) so you get some logical industrial centers.
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May 22, 2021 21:06
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I'm happy for all the Vicky fans, even though I would have preferred a Stellaris 2 or Fantasy IP GSG. But at this point, the next big thing has to be a grand strategy game set in a fantasy world, right? With Total Warhammer 3 having a good chance to smash records, I can't understand why Paradox wouldn't tap that market, especially since they already have their sci-fi GSG!
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May 22, 2021 21:17
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I would be skeptical if a fantasy one doing well, unless they license a major IP
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May 22, 2021 21:20
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Torrannor posted:But at this point, the next big thing has to be a grand strategy game set in a fantasy world, right? With Total Warhammer 3 having a good chance to smash records, I can't understand why Paradox wouldn't tap that market, especially since they already have their sci-fi GSG! I think TWW3 is exactly the reason why you wouldn't make a fantasy GSG nowadays. TWW3 is not like older TW games, it's much closer to a Paradox style game - conquest is less important, a lot of unique playable factions, strategy layer is much more complex than before. Whatever PDX does for most people who are not PDX fans already it would be that other fantasy strategy that doesn't look as good and probably doesn't even have proper battles. It'll be Sengoku to TW Shogun. Or maybe not. But that's what I would be afraid of in their position.
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May 22, 2021 21:28
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CharlestheHammer posted:I would be skeptical if a fantasy one doing well, unless they license a major IP why? stellaris is one of their best sellers
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May 22, 2021 21:34
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I had most fun in victoria 2 as egypt, iran, transcaucasus, brazil etc. but admittely the goal is to turn yourself into an european major power.
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May 22, 2021 21:40
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Davincie posted:why? stellaris is one of their best sellers Stellaris is a four X game in space which doesn’t have much real competition. Not only does fantasy have a lot of competition from established IPs, but ultimately what people like about fantasy just isn’t what paradox games can do
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May 22, 2021 21:45
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Torrannor posted:I'm happy for all the Vicky fans, even though I would have preferred a Stellaris 2 or Fantasy IP GSG. Given that Vicky 3 has apparently been in development since 2018, I would assume that a GSG in a fictional/fantasy setting is something they're currently working on but aren't announcing yet, especially as there's been job listings for artists at Paradox for a non-historical game project.
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May 22, 2021 21:47
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CharlestheHammer posted:Stellaris is a four X game in space which doesn’t have much real competition. Not only does fantasy have a lot of competition from established IPs, but ultimately what people like about fantasy just isn’t what paradox games can do I admit that maybe Warhams' competition might make it difficult to release a profitable fantasy GSG, but the plethora of GoT, Elder Scrolls or Warhammer mods for CK2, and their enduring popularity, clearly demonstrate that Paradox games can in fact to fantasy.
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May 22, 2021 21:48
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Red Bones posted:Given that Vicky 3 has apparently been in development since 2018, I would assume that a GSG in a fictional/fantasy setting is something they're currently working on but aren't announcing yet, especially as there's been job listings for artists at Paradox for a non-historical game project. Earliest Steam build is from 2016 https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/ni08cm/they_kept_it_hidden_from_us_for_a_long_time/
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May 22, 2021 21:51
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CharlestheHammer posted:Stellaris is a four X game in space which doesn’t have much real competition. Not only does fantasy have a lot of competition from established IPs, but ultimately what people like about fantasy just isn’t what paradox games can do Crusader Kings already does a lot of what people love about fantasy IP Game of Thrones. incest
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May 22, 2021 21:52
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Barnaby Barnacle posted:Crusader Kings already does a lot of what people love about fantasy IP Game of Thrones. incest I actually think this is a good example in the opposite direction. CK does really well, but I don’t think that means TWM3 would automatically do well Because that’s not what those games do very well
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May 22, 2021 21:56
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CharlestheHammer posted:Stellaris is a four X game in space which doesn’t have much real competition. Not only does fantasy have a lot of competition from established IPs, but ultimately what people like about fantasy just isn’t what paradox games can do Hard disagree. The way I see it, they just basically need to mashup Stellaris (initial exploration gameplay and the toss-in-every-scifi-trope-and-the-kitchen-sink setting, only with a fantasy flavor) and CK (characters, all the complex character interaction, especially the incestous seduction gameplay) to get something that will sell.
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May 22, 2021 22:23
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Tuna-Fish posted:Hard disagree. that sounds really awful
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May 22, 2021 22:24
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Tuna-Fish posted:Hard disagree. I don’t get what being fantasy adds to this. Space at least complements the exploration but
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May 22, 2021 22:27
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yikes! posted:that sounds really awful Can't spell awesome without awful.
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May 22, 2021 22:28
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Fantasy would work really well
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May 22, 2021 22:33
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The Chad Jihad posted:Fantasy would work really well Why? What would make it stand apart from the other paradox games?
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May 22, 2021 22:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t get what being fantasy adds to this. Space at least complements the exploration but Pining for "CK3, but fantasy" is asking for a mod because CK3 already exists. The point of a different game would be to have different mechanics and to simulate a chosen genre of fantasy story. Like, take Stellaris, Stellaris is about emulating a very specific style of Sci-Fi story about exploration and and the final frontier. It very much runs the gamut of star treks, but the central thrust is about taking steps into a wider world. So a fantasy grand strategy game would need to figure out what about fantasy the genre is useful or interesting to poke at and play at the scale of grand strategy games. yikes! posted:that sounds really awful It also does, yeah.
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May 22, 2021 22:36
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A Dune/Fading Suns/Crisis of the Confederation sort of scifi grand strategy title would kick much rear end
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May 22, 2021 22:46
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An Age of Mythology type thing mixing up historical and mythical influences would be much mroe interesting than generic fantasy IMO. Better for a Total War game though. Don't know what a Paradox GSG would really bring to the table for a fantasy setting, IMO the assymetry and diversity of the real world is inifinitely more interesting than what basically any fantasy setting can muster up for this type of game.
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May 22, 2021 22:58
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Grand strategy set in homerian times
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May 22, 2021 23:02
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Give me Late Antinquity or give me death.
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May 22, 2021 23:05
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(double post)
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May 22, 2021 23:05
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Not quite, stellaris throws together tropes and narrative elements from a variety of science fiction sources. Being on like a science ship scanning things is very Original Series Star Trek; the different vaguely oval shaped space empires is very TNG; you have the planet busters from from Star Wars primarily, but also Warhammer 40,000 and of course the stellar politics and predecessor species from Babylon 5; Necroids are very Flood/Necromorphs/Zerg/Nids; cosmic horror from Lovecraft; and so on. Stellaris builds off of games like Master of Orion for good or ill. It don't think Stellaris is really any specific theme or style of story, its trying to be a lot of different styles and stories off the back of what in the past were turn based grand strategy games like Civilization but now in Real time. Exploration is present for the early game, comes up again a little in the mid game with the off map constellation with the nanite swarms but exploration is hardly a consistent focus throughout the game; it isn't like you can start invading other galaxies like you're playing Paperclip Optimizer. If anything Stellaris plays to the strength of "soft" space opera science fiction of about being in the forefront of guiding your civilization to find its place amongst the stars and enduring its unique challenges of needing to interact and come to terms with the existence of highly advanced aliens, lovecraftian godlike beings, and unknowingly advanced almost magic like levels of technology and what does this mean to you. It's not about exploring the final frontier, its about what you find out about yourself and the human condition when faced with an outside context problem after outside context problem. I think its correct that any kind of Fantasy themed Grand Strategy game basically has to have a character system because fantasy as a genre is about adventurers and their adventures within the backdrop of a larger setting as context. So I think a fantasy setting gsg is less about ruling a civilization/country and more about managing fantasy setting nations to provide the set pieces for your adventurer-characters to go about adventuring in. Maybe you can play as the "Demon Lord" and you need to create Mordor so the Hero and their party can be fended off; and invading people and managing your logistics is just what you do to prepare your dungeon. Taking cues from Stellaris you have a lot of flexibility. The Goblin kingdom trying to take over Dwarven halls; Dwarves digging greedily and deeply, etc.
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May 22, 2021 23:08
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A fantasy game would be great because then they could actually use mana 
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May 22, 2021 23:11
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They are already hiring artists for an unannounced non-historical game on their site and I doubt it's stellaris two
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May 22, 2021 23:19
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think its correct that any kind of Fantasy themed Grand Strategy game basically has to have a character system because fantasy as a genre is about adventurers and their adventures within the backdrop of a larger setting as context. grand strategy Majesty sounds incredible
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May 22, 2021 23:21
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I think I would find the fantasy stuff more compelling if someone could point to a setting that would be a good fit for it and would need its own game to be fully realized and couldn't just be accomplished with a ck3 mod. Like Warhammer and Total War are a match made in heaven, the strengths of both play off of each other in such a way as to blend together perfectly. I can't think of anything that would be such a good fit for PDX and their stylings.
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May 22, 2021 23:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:They are already hiring artists for an unannounced non-historical game on their site and I doubt it's stellaris two Crusader Kings 4: Space Marine Vikings vs Viking Byzantium vs Vikings vs Bike Kings
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May 22, 2021 23:24
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Stairmaster posted:Grand strategy set in homerian times Rise and fall of the minoan empire 
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May 22, 2021 23:26
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I don't want to bore anyone by repeating things I've already posted, but what I was hoping for from Stellaris was sort of CK in space. The premise is that transport and communication through space would start off very difficult for 99% of people. As a player, you'd still be able to explore with specialized ships, and some intra-empire trade would be possible with the assumption that you can transport materials in ways that would be fatal to living creatures. The result would be that your first system, and maybe the systems around it would be fairly well connected. They'd have similar values and people might, with difficulty, migrate between them. Elites may hop from planet to planet on a whim, but for the middle class, they might visit another planet a few times in their life at most. Comparable to an American taking a vacation to Europe. They might have a culture that's 10-20 years divergent from the home planet. But once you extend further out than that, you get some truly isolated colonies, where their only exposure to the home planet is elites coming by either to ogle or to figure out why production isn't up to standards. Once these colonies become self-sufficient, they're going to want to schism off, and it's probably a good idea to let them. They'd probably be 50-100 years culturally divergent from the home planet. Strange, but still recognizable. But once those planets start building colonies, which themselves schism off, you're getting cultures that are unrecognizable to the home planet. And since they're the furthest away, they're going to be on the front lines of alien encounters. The respective home planets of two species may have formal diplomatic relations, with diplomats using expensive tools to communicate and visit each other. But on the front lines, where there are millions of regular people interacting with aliens, the conditions may be very different. It'd be sort of like how politicians in Washington DC have strong opinions on US-Mexico relations that are very different than that of people living in Nogales or another transborder agglomeration. These border interactions are going to be where you see the really extreme Xenophilic or Xenophobic cultures, and they may be at odds with the goals of home systems. At this point in the game, you might have 10-20 governments for each species, as well as the first breakaway nations that consist of multiple species. Throughout this process, depending on the abilities of government leaders, you might see more consolidation. A very skilled leader might be able to unify a lot more systems to form empires, but they'd soon fade and break apart again especially if core systems become dependent on other worlds. The general idea though is that this system would support stories sort of like that in Dune or Foundation, rather than just giant homogenous galactic empires.
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May 22, 2021 23:28
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AnEdgelord posted:I think I would find the fantasy stuff more compelling if someone could point to a setting that would be a good fit for it and would need its own game to be fully realized and couldn't just be accomplished with a ck3 mod. I think there's lots of limitations for CK that don't lend themselves to fully realizing a fantasy setting. A good example might be something like Reccetear, as a sort of something that hasn't been explored too much. You don't know what you're missing until someone puts it in front of you.
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May 22, 2021 23:31
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:They are already hiring artists for an unannounced non-historical game on their site and I doubt it's stellaris two It could be, Stellaris sold very well and has double the player count of CK3 on steam this month.
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May 22, 2021 23:33
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I think a lot of the problems is most people’s suggestions seem to boil down a different game but fantasy themed and I don’t see the appeal. Hell I don’t think the historical titles sell based on the period, but what that period brings to the table
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May 22, 2021 23:35
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