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Araxxor posted:Course the characters being who they are, some of them would probably out themselves as a bug very quickly instead of doing the smart thing and chilling to the end. Hell, even relying on an Engineer wouldn't be a sure thing. I can easily see a Gnosia or AC Engi falsely claiming someone as Bug just to try and put a giant target on them.
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May 21, 2021 18:27
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I dont think there is any particular stat that manages "likelyhood to be scanned by engineer" but I feel like it should be since i am ALWAYS found out to be the bug no matter how loud or quiet i end up being.
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May 21, 2021 18:40
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BisbyWorl posted:Hell, even relying on an Engineer wouldn't be a sure thing. I can easily see a Gnosia or AC Engi falsely claiming someone as Bug just to try and put a giant target on them. Engineers don’t claim people as bugs, they can only see “human” or “gnosia”. If the true engineer inspects the bug, they are automatically eliminated. If the fake engineer inspects the bug they will simply falsely call them human or gnosia same as they would lie about anyone else.
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May 21, 2021 18:50
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Rith posted:It's strange to me that Sha-Ming has such high stealth when he's so obnoxious. That guy doesn't exactly blend into the background. This is from a long while back, but Sha-Ming's stealth is much more based on people not taking him seriously. You're in a life or death situation, and here's this disinterested rear end in a top hat talking about rubbing one out in the corner. Clearly not a threat, nor someone you want to talk to for any length of time, so just ignore him and move on with more important things.
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May 21, 2021 19:02
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Thuryl posted:Yeah, the characters still play according to their personalities when they're the Bug, which is to say they're often bad at keeping a low profile. Bug Raqio loves to fake-claim Engineer and try to get the real one voted off, while someone like Remnan might stick out for being too quiet. Insertnamehere31 posted:Engineers don’t claim people as bugs, they can only see “human” or “gnosia”. If the true engineer inspects the bug, they are automatically eliminated. If the fake engineer inspects the bug they will simply falsely call them human or gnosia same as they would lie about anyone else. A Guardian Angel could realize who the real engineer is if they protect someone, they die anyway, and they see which engineer investigated them, but there's no 'official' way for them to confirm that. (the guardian angel can never out themselves) Haifisch fucked around with this message at 19:18 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 19:16
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Insertnamehere31 posted:Engineers don’t claim people as bugs, they can only see “human” or “gnosia”. If the true engineer inspects the bug, they are automatically eliminated. If the fake engineer inspects the bug they will simply falsely call them human or gnosia same as they would lie about anyone else. I noticed that even eliminated bugs get reported as "human" the next day. It sounds like it can help sus out the true engineer but some coincidences can also put you on the wrong track entirely if you assume the other target was protected by the guardian angel (yes this actually happend to me more than once). CHiRAL fucked around with this message at 19:20 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 19:17
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I thought we were avoiding/spoiling details that hadn't come up in the LP yet.
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May 21, 2021 19:43
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I’ll allow mechanical chat of the Bug role since I technically did cover it in the How to Play update, and it’ll be elaborated on first thing next update. For those who skipped it, for quick context, the Bug cannot be eliminated by Gnosia. If the Bug is targeted, nothing happens, much like if they target a Guardian Angel’s target. The Bug can only be eliminated by being investigated by the true Engineer (and if that happens and the Gnosia kill someone, there will be two deaths reported), or by getting voted for cold sleep. Bugs can claim roles just like the AC Follower, and will also show up as Human for reports. If I knew the Bug was going to show up so soon, I would’ve saved the How to Play part for after this update. Oh well!
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May 21, 2021 19:56
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Insertnamehere31 posted:Engineers don’t claim people as bugs, they can only see “human” or “gnosia”. If the true engineer inspects the bug, they are automatically eliminated. If the fake engineer inspects the bug they will simply falsely call them human or gnosia same as they would lie about anyone else. My favorite story with this is before I realized how to play a Gnosia fake Engineer. As a rule, until you know the Bug or real Engineer has been eliminated, don't claim to have investigated someone you didn't choose for the night kill. Otherwise, you risk the Bug dying to the real Engineer when you've claimed to investigate someone else. This is an impossible scenario, and so you'll get called out as Definite Enemy. Well, I found myself in that scenario, and it turns out...you can just decline to report. It looks really suspicious, but the AI doesn't quite hop on the "only a Gnosia would do that" bandwagon it should, and you can stand a chance of survival. After that, I just always "investigated" the same person I killed, and for some reason this tendency doesn't get you in trouble.
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May 21, 2021 20:05
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I thought I was doing well but now I unlocked a bunch of special events and uh... They DO mean significant stat increases upon unlocking them. I'm right back to getting yelled at constantly despite having 20 Stealth. Jeez. Being a Gnosia seems kind of RNG though. I got a game where I was teamed up with Raqio earlier where 9 people voted him despite voicing zero suspicion of them beforehand. The crew just hates Raqio's very existence apparently. Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 20:41 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 20:38
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Mega64 posted:If I knew the Bug was going to show up so soon, I would’ve saved the How to Play part for after this update. Oh well! Are you saying even you did not realize you were the Bug that loop? Because if so that just elevates it to absolute pricelessness  Rosalie_A posted:Well, I found myself in that scenario, and it turns out...you can just decline to report. It looks really suspicious, but the AI doesn't quite hop on the "only a Gnosia would do that" bandwagon it should, and you can stand a chance of survival. After that, I just always "investigated" the same person I killed, and for some reason this tendency doesn't get you in trouble. I'm not surprised this is a limitation but yeah, this and other things I can see happening wouldn't fit into the "lie" or "logical failure" camps that have been established but should still to a highly observant party invite suspicion. It might be hard to codify that given how far even the "lie" and "logical failure" camps can stretch into potentially inscrutable territory, and it also feels very realistic to be hard to remember for in-person games like this, but some sort of "improbable convenience" camp of axioms would be pretty interesting to workshop.
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May 21, 2021 20:47
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:Are you saying even you did not realize you were the Bug that loop? Because if so that just elevates it to absolute pricelessness Fairly sure it tells you that you are Crew at the start of that Loop.
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May 21, 2021 20:48
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:Are you saying even you did not realize you were the Bug that loop? Because if so that just elevates it to absolute pricelessness Oh, I knew I was a Bug as soon as the "You are actually Crew now" prompt came up, I just forgot exactly around what loop Bug came up.
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May 21, 2021 20:49
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One of the other issues with an "improbable convenience" camp of axioms is that unlike the "lie" camp or "logical failure" camp, it's explicitly not possible to guarantee the correct answer - sometimes the human Engineer/cop/etc really does just choose the worst possible targets to investigate every day before they get iced. It's also to some extent not hard to game this by scum to lead people who invest in that mode of thought too much astray.
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May 21, 2021 22:32
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:One of the other issues with an "improbable convenience" camp of axioms is that unlike the "lie" camp or "logical failure" camp, it's explicitly not possible to guarantee the correct answer - sometimes the human Engineer/cop/etc really does just choose the worst possible targets to investigate every day before they get iced. It's also to some extent not hard to game this by scum to lead people who invest in that mode of thought too much astray. This doesn't really apply to Gnosia, since the "meta" isn't a thing, but when playing these styles of games in person, doing something that is a bit chaotic and that breaks the meta can be absolutely hilarious, especially when you're innocent. There's an example from Among Us that is hilarious where the viewpoint player (Jorbs) does something very suspicious and fakes his tasks as if he was an enemy. Prior to this round, this particular lobby had been playing in a way that made it very difficult for the impostors to win, and the games were a bit boring. By turning the meta on its head and doing something obviously suspicious, he actually gets the two impostors to bite way too hard on voting him out, and they are quickly eliminated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V43Ctx2pxms One of the interesting things about doing games like this in person is that you have to make mistakes when you're part of the crew equivalent. If you're perfectly logical every time, like Raqio, then if you are required to do something suboptimal in order to keep your teammate alive, you can't. It's one reason that Raqio throws you under the bus as Gnosia - their playstyle straight up doesn't allow them to make a mistake or everyone will turn on them immediately. Kukrushka's loyalty, on the other hand, lets her make "mistakes" in the name of being really just a crewmember who happens to be loyal to this suspicious person. Pay the fact that they're collaborating no mind as they pick you off one by one and stab you in the back in the end. Gnosia is a great game and it's fun to come at the game from different angles and behave similarly to the different people on the ship. It's also fun to spend a few rounds as a Gnosia with the maximum amount of Gnosia and just kind of watch how different crew behave when they are traitors. It gives you some interesting insights into spotting them when you're playing a different role in the future. Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 23:08
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Yami Fenrir posted:I thought I was doing well but now I unlocked a bunch of special events and uh... As far as I understand it, Stealth is only for helping against Gnosia attacks...you need high Charm to avoid getting yelled at.
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May 21, 2021 23:45
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whitehelm posted:As far as I understand it, Stealth is only for helping against Gnosia attacks...you need high Charm to avoid getting yelled at. Depends on what they mean by getting yelled at. Stealth lets you say more without getting "Shut Up"ed, on top of reducing the chance you get night killed. Charm makes getting doubted less effective.
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May 22, 2021 00:03
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whitehelm posted:As far as I understand it, Stealth is only for helping against Gnosia attacks...you need high Charm to avoid getting yelled at. That's the impression I got too. My general understanding after referring back to the How To Play Gnosia update is: - Stealth is the stat for reducing how much suspicion you get from (not) speaking up during a debate alongside making you a less interesting target to the Gnosia. It works in tandem with chiming in during debates so make sure to be chatty but not TOO chatty. Raqio is on the low end Stealth-wise and very chatty so it's no big shock that they get frozen or killed a lot. Shigemichi on the other hand has excellent Stealth so he has an easier time getting away with talking too much. - Charm is the stat that reduces how much trust/favor is lost when someone accuses you and in turn increases the odds of others coming to the rescue when you defend yourself. Jonas is on the low end when it comes to Charm so if he gets caught in a lie by someone then Jonas' day will quickly go sour unless he's built up support with others beforehand. On the other hand, someone like Kukrushka or SQ have Charm for days and have no problem winning people over even if some of those same people had accused them earlier in the questioning. - Intuition is the stat that determines how good of a lie detector you are, working directly against Performance. So, if someone like Shigemichi (abysmal Performance) lies when Comet (flawless Intitution) is around, Comet can and will spot that lie 99.99% of the time. If someone like Yuriko is lying though then even Comet might not catch on right away since Yuriko has no peer when it comes to Performance. - Going off of the above, Performance is in part how good you are at lying through your teeth without anyone noticing. Performance is also the stat you want in order to make your statements more effective when it comes to currying favor with emotional people. Everyone pays attention when Yuriko defends or accuses someone but similar declarations from someone like Shigemichi (terrible Performance) won't have nearly the same impact. - Logic is similar to Performance in that it makes your statements more effective when it comes to challenging how trustworthy someone is or isn't. Raqio may be incapable of spotting a lie but when they say that someone is a Definite Human or Definite Enemy then that's the end of that particular discussion. SQ however is terrible at connecting the dots so she's probably not going to trap someone in a logical conundrum. - Charisma is the stat for making it easier to get people to trust what you say along with making it more likely that people on your side will pitch in when you accuse or defend someone else. Setsu is very charismatic so if they have people on their side then they're in good shape. Remnan on the other hand is a charismatic black hole so odds are anyone who pitches in after he says something were going to attack/defend Remnan's target even if he said nothing at all.
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May 22, 2021 01:09
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On a similar note, there are three ratings by which characters judge each other. If the above stats are your strength/int/dex sort of scores, these are your HP. My understanding of them, between the manual and my own assumptions: Amiability is how much A likes B as a person. This is agnostic to which side they're on. Characters have certain baselines to who they like initially (Stella likes boys, Sha-Ming likes girls, Setsu likes you, Yuriko doesn't) and I would imagine either your charm or charisma contribute too. Possibly attacking someone else will drop your amiability with them specifically. Attacks from characters with high Performance will drop this in most people's eyes, while defences will raise it. Emotional characters will usually target people based primarily on amiability. Trust is a measure of how much A thinks B is on their side. There is no baseline level of Trust, everyone starts neutral on it, though I assume your own behaviour can affect people's trust if it seems suspicious. Attacks and defences from characters with high Logic will affect this most, but it probably depends on whether the attacking/defending character is themselves trusted. Logical characters will target people based primarily on trust. Hate is a measure of how much you're driving the conversation. My mind keeps reading it as Heat, which feels like a better name for the stat. Agreeing with someone else's statements raises it a little - or it doesn't, and staying silent lowers it, that might scale better with longer games. Making proactive doubts or covers raises it more. Using abilities raises it even more than that, unless the ability is specifically about stealth. Your Stealth stat reduces how much your Hate is affected by what you do. Too much or too little Hate will lower your other attributes, and likely get you targeted as a result. Note this is only my understanding, partly based on just how I would have these systems run - anything not outright stated in the manual might be wrong. But the manual isn't as clear on how these work as it is with the primary stats.
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May 22, 2021 01:41
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Tenebrais posted:Amiability is how much A likes B as a person. This is agnostic to which side they're on. Characters have certain baselines to who they like initially (Stella likes boys, Sha-Ming likes girls, Setsu likes you, Yuriko doesn't) and I would imagine either your charm or charisma contribute too. Possibly attacking someone else will drop your amiability with them specifically. Attacks from characters with high Performance will drop this in most people's eyes, while defences will raise it..
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May 22, 2021 02:02
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Tenebrais posted:Amiability is how much A likes B as a person. This is agnosia-tic to which side they're on. fixed 
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May 22, 2021 02:43
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Oh, thanks. That actually helps a lot. I thought I got better at the game but turns out nope, I'm still horrible. (Which feels in line with the LP  )
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May 22, 2021 11:37
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rude
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May 22, 2021 14:26
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I'd argue that there's a lot more fishy about Otome than just the Eyes, Comet.
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May 22, 2021 14:32
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Poor otome. Forever confused as a fish instead of the aquatic mammal she is.
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May 22, 2021 14:38
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Aquatic mammal she is, and definitely not a fish, but it's bothering me more than it should when other characters keep calling her a dolphin. She is clearly a beluga, which is not a dolphin.
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May 22, 2021 15:35
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Silver Falcon posted:Aquatic mammal she is, and definitely not a fish, but it's bothering me more than it should when other characters keep calling her a dolphin. She is clearly a beluga, which is not a dolphin. Whale you don’t have to ruin all our fun on porpoise like that. 
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May 22, 2021 15:39
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TeeQueue posted:Whale you don’t have to ruin all our fun on porpoise like that. I'm a marine biologist. I can't kelp it. And besides, belugas are adorable, and so is Otome! I'd just like to see belugas get more credit.
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May 22, 2021 15:47
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Silver Falcon posted:Aquatic mammal she is, and definitely not a fish, but it's bothering me more than it should when other characters keep calling her a dolphin. She is clearly a beluga, which is not a dolphin. The word "iruka" in Japanese is used as a catch-all for small toothed whales (a category that includes both dolphins and beluga whales) and nine times out of ten when it's used it's talking about dolphins, so I think at least some of the translation was done without the context of her portrait. She is referred to as a beluga whale in some places in the game as well.
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May 23, 2021 00:31
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Common names for animals are pretty much completely arbitrary in how broadly they apply. In general, Japanese words are much broader than English, for example "nezumi" referring to both mice and rats, or "karasu" referring to both crows and ravens. That said, I think English is actually the more unusual case here, with a lot of overly narrow words compared to other languages. The word for beluga specifically in Japanese is just "white dolphin".
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May 23, 2021 03:36
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Welp, count me in as another one inspired to buy the game from this LP! I haven't gotten much further than the thread yet, but already having a blast—most memorable round I've had so far is a tossup between "human win by collabing with an Engineer Comet who managed to pinpoint the final Gnosia, as well as having called both the Guardian Angel (me) and the Doctor as human, only to find out at the end she was actually an incredibly unlucky AC Follower" and "15-person game that only lasted 3 days, because we somehow managed to freeze all three Gnosia back-to-back at the start without finding the Bug first  "
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May 24, 2021 15:50
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  I haven't shown it yet until now, but here's the load game screen. Three slots, nice character artwork.  Welp, last time we won so hard it destroyed the universe. Let's maybe tone down our victory shenanigans a bit this time!  Music: In the Unknown Ship    Hmph... Is this one of those stupid "Anyone who disturbs our peace is an enemy" things? Sorry, but no. Like the Gnosia, this enemy known as a "Bug", hides among us.  What?! For real?! I'd assume so, yeah... I mean, Setsu doesn't joke around about stuff like that. Basically in the same way as Gnosia. We need to see through their disguise, and put them into cold sleep. However... A Bug cannot be eliminated by Gnosia attack. Whaaat?! So they can't be killed by Gnosia? drat, I'm actually kinda jealous, honestly...  That's, like, super confusing... So like, what even *is* a Bug, anyway? Even the Gnosia cannot eliminate something that doesn't exist. But since they "don't exist", being examined causes inconsistencies to occur, basically erasing them. At least, I think this is the case... Therefore... Those with Engineer credentials need to prioritize the discovery and elimination of these Bugs?  Ah, a precipice in front, a wolf behind, as they say. Hehe, interesting indeed! So Bugs are our final role of Gnosia. As said, Gnosia can't kill them, but they'll die if investigated by the Engineer. They can still be sent to cold sleep, and like the AC Follower they can claim to be the Engineer or Doctor, leading to a potential four claims of a role.  (I did a bit more digging into these Bugs. It took me about 20 loops to work all of this out.)  We're definitely not the Bug again. We're plain old Crew, no twists this time. That does mean someone else is the Bug, though...  So yeah, we've got all options available. This will be our first full game of Gnosia with all the roles properly available. Gameplay-wise, all that's left are skills to obtain, and as we learn more, the rest of the crew will get more powerful skills that will make our lives difficult. So that's something to look forward to! Alright, let's begin! Music: Suspicion   The day starts off with role reveals. The Doctor reveals are Kukrushka, Otome, and SQ, while the Engineer reveals are Gina and Sha-Ming. Guard Duty is Raqio and Jonas, so for once Raqio gets to take a break from the fridge.   Other than a failed attempt by SQ to collab with Raqio, there's only one round of actual targeting. Since it was from Yuriko, and it was focused on easy mark Comet, this makes for an easy first day.  With an actual win, we get some much-needed bonus EXP. Since we got Charm up, it's time to focus on Stealth so we don't get taken out so drat easily all the time. For now, my focus is to not die, and after that work on Performance a bit so we can actually get away with lying while Gnosia. We've got an event in the cafeteria, so let's check it out. Music: Enjoying My Routine  Gnosia, huh? Well, as for who I'd least want to be Gnosia, probably Setsu, I guess. I mean, Setsu's cool, you know? Not the kinda person I wanna have to suspect. Setsu as like, Gnosia... Daaaamn. But like, that's like, totally possible if you think about it, riiiiight?  Oof, right on the spot... Luckily, our choice here doesn't matter because- Music: In the Unknown Ship  Oh, uh, hey Setsu... Hehe, so you like, overheard, huh? I would say that you're the suspicious one here. Well, I mean... So whaddya have to say about that, huh, SQ? I'm not angry. I'm just saying, if you're going to try to put Cassidy and me under suspicion, then you'd better be ready to be suspected yourself. SQ goes all SQ to work her way out of suspicion. Luckily it's only Shigemichi around, but still.  SQ is good at playing with people's perceptions like that. She exaggerates and dramatizes things, and attempts to take advantage of the situation.  Exaggerate basically amplifies the strength of your statements. It seems fine enough, though really the thing setting it back is the 15 Performance requirement. It's not something I used much in my first playthrough, and I'm not sure if it draws more attention to you or what, but once I unlock it I may play with it and see what happens. Or maybe not, who knows!  But looking back on it now... I could've handled it better. Even with as many loops as Setsu's been on, they're still learning and improving their game. It's best for us to keep doing the same!  Some guy named Remnan got eliminated. Music: Suspicion  Reports: SQ (?.D) -> Comet was Human. Kukrushka (?.D) -> Comet was Gnosia. Otome (?.D) -> Comet was Human. Gina (Enemy.E) -> Setsu is Gnosia. (Caught in a lie!) Sha-Ming (H.E) -> Remnan wasn't Gnosia. Well, that was illuminating! We caught Gina in a lie, so she's an enemy, though still possibly the Bug or AC Follower. However, since Sha-Ming is the only other Engineer and claimed on Day 1, we personally know Sha-Ming is the true Engineer. As we went over last update, this doesn't mean Setsu isn't Gnosia, just that Gina doesn't know what Setsu is. We learn nothing new about Setsu, but just catching one of the Day 1 Engineer claims in a lie is powerful information. Sadly, Sha-Ming's report is useless here, but if he lives for awhile we might find some good leads. Meanwhile, the Doctors will take some more time to sift through.     There's some suspicion thrown at SQ and Gina, but in the end it's Chipie who gets the brunt of the focus, though interestingly Otome got a few votes too. Definitely something to watch out for... Music: A Sip of Wonder  Yes. We humans... We must huddle together to wait out the storms of, um... naughtiness...  You told Jonas that you want to collaborate. During the night, we collab with Jonas. Well, this should be a journey.  Shigemichi is the next to go down. Music: Suspicion  Reports: Otome (?.D) -> Chipie was Human. SQ (?.D) -> Chipie was Gnosia. Kukrushka (?.D) -> Chipie was Human. Gina (E.E) -> SQ is Human. Sha-Ming (H.E) -> Setsu is Human.   Here's our current report info. We now know Setsu is not Gnosia. Could still be AC Follower or Bug, but for now they're not a threat. The Doctors are still a mess, but all these Gnosia reports could work out sooner or later.    While there's a bit of Setsu suspicion, there's a good bit for Gina as well.    The important thing here is that at no point during either debate cycle this day did anyone bother defending Gina. Despite getting suspected multiple times, no one, not even her possible Gnosia allies, bothered stepping up to protect her.   So much for our alliance!  Reports: Kukrushka (?.D) -> Gina was Human. SQ (?.D) -> Gina was Gnosia. Otome (?.D) -> Gina was Human. Sha-Ming (H.E) -> Stella is Gnosia.  Sha-Ming gets us a solid lead and finds out Stella. Hell yeah! Also, I'm leaning toward SQ as the real Doctor now due to her Gina report. If SQ really is the Doctor, we just have to eliminate Stella and the game's over! Of course, there's still that pesky Bug potentially out there...   There's some suspicion toward Kukrushka, Setsu, and Sha-Ming, but I decide to go after Stella since we know Sha-Ming is legit.  Otome just barely edges out Stella though, and honestly I'm fine with that call. Otome's been getting a lot of votes recently, so I'm assuming some of the other humans caught her in a lie.  If SQ is Doctor, then AC Follower/Bug have to be Otome and Kukrushka in some order. If Kukrushka's the Doctor, then with this information Setsu is an AC Follower since Sha-Ming said they're human and Setsu wasn't eliminated, and one of SQ and Otome must therefore be Gnosia, with Stella and Comet being the other two. This would mean Gina was the Bug. If Otome is the true Doctor, the humans are screwed.  At any rate, Sha-Ming bites the dust.  Reports: SQ (?.D) -> Otome was Human Kukrusha (?.D) -> Otome was Human Well, Otome wasn't Gnosia. That's somewhat helpful. ...Actually, with this information and Sha-Ming's elimination we have won.   I just hadn't realized it yet. Raqio's a logical force to be reckoned with, and writing this update I'm still trying to parse how they've proven Stella is Gnosia. Let's break it down and see if I can figure this out... ...In fact, I am going to spoiler this entire thing so you can all try to suss it out for yourselves. Stella must be Gnosia because Sha-Ming said she was, so Raqio must know Sha-Ming is the true Engineer. While Cassidy knows this is true, this is because we caught Gina lying. Therefore, there must be something that says Gina was Gnosia. There's two ways to look at this. The first is to find out SQ is the true Doctor, which I've tried but am struggling with because I can't even discount Otome, let alone Kukrushka. The second is to catch a contradiction in Gina's reports.  Let's assume Gina was correct. Then SQ is Human (and not a Bug) and Setsu is Gnosia. SQ did find Gina was Gnosia, but SQ could still have been the AC Follower and lying about that. Otome was Human since both Doctors cleared her, so then at least one of Kukrushka and Sha-Ming must be Gnosia. Well, Sha-Ming clearly wasn't... Aha! So let's continue. Sha-Ming was eliminated, so he can't be Gnosia. Thus Kukrushka would have to be Gnosia in that situation, but that's not the important part. This means Sha-Ming would be the AC Follower since if he was a Bug, he wouldn't be eliminated. Therefore, SQ must be the Bug in order for her to lie about Gina being Gnosia. But then SQ would've been eliminated after being investigated by Gina! Therefore, SQ must be the Doctor, which would mean Gina was a Gnosia, a contradiction from our original assumption that Gina was the true Engineer. Therefore, Sha-Ming is the true Engineer, and Stella is Gnosia. ...Whew! It took me twenty minutes to figure out what Raqio did in seconds. When Raqio isn't on ice, they can be pretty drat good!   As a bonus/hint for those you still trying to figure it out, there's also proof Setsu is a Definite Human.  Though some suspicion stuff pops up here and there, mostly SQ, when there's a Definite Enemy they're going to get unanimously voted for except for someone like Kukrushka, as seen here.   And with that, things should be good! Let's just hope we took out the Bug as well... Music: A Ray of Hope  Thanks. It was all thanks to you... Music: In the Unknown Ship  How about you just be glad that you survived, hm? Anyone weak or dumb enough to die here, well... That just shows how weak or dumb they were, really. You know what? Where I was born, on Gliese, people of low worth are treated as such... As "low-value objects". As they should be. Well, that kinda takes away some of the joy of this victory.   That said, Raqio does have a bit of a chip on their shoulder from their upbringing, it feels like.  But who cares? We've got our first winning streak!   Anyway, checked the log to confirm my suspicions, and yep, Otome got caught in a lie and thus got targeted despite never really getting focused on in debates. But hey, that's teamwork. I helped spot Gina, Setsu and Yuriko found out Otome, and Raqio exposed Stella with help from SQ's reports, not to mention Sha-Ming's reports, may he rub one out in heaven.  Now let's actually try out Guard Duty! And we've got a nice partner in Yuriko, who's always great as an ally and as a bonus is also a much bigger target than us!  Music: Suspicion  Let's do this.  That's rude, Comet. Otherwise, the first round is pretty plain. Cassidy and Yuriko out themselves as Guard Duty, Setsu and SQ are the Doctor claims.   And Otome gets her revenge on Comet's terrible comment by setting her up...  ...for a rather big icing.   Being a confirmed human is nice, since you don't have to worry about talking too little or too much. You can just blab about whatever!  Oh no, what a tragic loss... Reports: Setsu (?.D) - Comet was Human. SQ (?.D) - Comet was Human. I guess Comet wasn't Gnosia! She was still rude though.  We collab with Chipie, and our Engineer reveals are Gina and Jonas. Neither may be the Engineer though if it was actually Comet or Sha-Ming....   We're pretty suspicious of Otome for...reasons I've forgotten at this point, honestly. It doesn't matter, Yuriko dislikes Stella, so Stella must go.   Uh, well then! That's one of the Engineer claims. Does that mean Jonas is Gnosia, or was there an AC Follower among the two and the Gnosia decided to take advantage of the lack of Gnosia claims?  Reports: Jonas (?.E) -> Chipie is Gnosia. Setsu (?.D) -> Stella is Human. SQ (?.D) -> Stella is Human. Once again, we iced a human. As for Jonas, he's definitely suspect, but he could still be the actual Engineer, with Gina having been an AC Follower. Just no way of knowing right now...  And the Day 1 investigations that weren't mentioned, for the record.     I mean, there's others that were doubted, but... I mean, it is Jonas.  Now we've got Kukrushka accusing Shigemichi of lying. We need info, so...  Also, the rare time I'm not happy Yuriko is gone.  Reports: SQ (?.D) -> Jonas was Gnosia. Setsu (?.D) -> Jonas was Human. Finally, a contradiction! Doesn't help us now, but maybe later! Hopefully...!     Kukrushka and Shigemichi are sniping at each other, but otherwise the focus here is on Setsu.   Raqio saying that and Cassidy not dying made me think Raqio is human.  I mean, that makes sense for SQ to say.  Skipping ahead, this was basically a bunch of people accusing each other and chaos descending.    Raqio has it out for Chipie, Kukrushka has it out for Shigemichi, and I just don't know what the hell is going on anymore.  I end up deciding Raqio's more reliable than Cassidy's own ally and thus jettison Chipie.   Huh. That's either a blessing from the Guardian Angel, or a potential curse from the Bug...  SQ says Chipie was human. This is one where I'm not getting much to work with here.   Kukrushka finally gets what she wants, and Shigemichi is taken out.  Our reward?   Yeah. That said, I got played well, and even if I did suss out Kukrushka's plot, Remnan was just the perfect person to get the Bug role. I wasn't winning that one regardless, and really the humans can't win this one unless Kukrushka and Remnan tie in the vote and both get sent to cold sleep. So another loss, but not one I feel bad about.  Let's change things up. We'll reduce the crew to just ten, still keep three Gnosia, but remove the roles for Guard Duty, AC Follower, and Bug. Lack of GD hurts humans, and Bug is nice for both sides, but lack of AC Follower means that if two people claim a role, one must be Gnosia. And of course, since I chose Random for the role, I get stuck as Gnosia with Comet and Jonas. Jonas is...iffy, but Comet's one of the worst Gnosia allies you can have. When you choose less than fifteen people, random characters are removed. The only characters that will ever be in every loop you make is Cassidy and Setsu.  Just part of the challenge! Music: Suspicion  My strategy here is simple. Occasionally defend an accused human, otherwise keep my mouth shut. This way Cassidy doesn't get exposed as a liar, which is still very possible with their low Performance (though that's now the stat I'm focusing on increasing).   Engineer claims are Jonas and Stella. This actually may be good. Jonas is chaotic, sure, but if he doesn't randomly get everyone's attention, he can be quite the adept liar, while people already are suspicious of Stella.   Jonas and Cassidy (!) get attention, but luckily Shigemichi is Shigemichi and goes down.  That's...probably not a bad loss. It really depends on whether Kukrushka liked us or not, but that's one less thing to worry about I guess. Oh wait, I was the one who chose to kill her. Yeah, that's probably the safest move I could've made. Reports: Stella (H.E) -> Kukrushka was Human. Jonas (G.E) -> Remnan is Human. So far so good. Stella's report was fortunately wasted, so as long as my Gnosia allies don't do anything dumb like-   oh no Comet and Setsu are the Doctor claims. While most of the time a Day 2 claim doesn't mean anything concrete, don't forget that only one Gnosia can claim a role (besides Cassidy, but I'm gonna avoid breaking these rules for now). Thus Setsu is the true Doctor.   Setsu does get suspicion, but I'm maintaining my strategy. Even if it means I'm supporting the actual Engineer and Doctor over my Gnosia buddies, screw them, I just want to live.  It turns out to be a tie between the Doctor claims. Ugh...    Well, at least our vote didn't matter!   Agreed, Setsu. Agreed... Reports: Stella (H.E) -> Raqio is Human. Jonas (G.E) -> Gina is Human. Jonas isn't taking any chances here. Will this work? Who the hell knows, this is Jonas we're talking about.    Fortunately it comes down to Remnan and Gina, and I don't really give a poo poo about either.  OK, you do that.   Gina trusts us, so that makes Raqio an easy target.  It doesn't matter though since only Gina and Stella are left now, so the Gnosia have won. Music: Shooting Stars Go Away  Hehe... Behold! This is what happens. The great Gnosia know humans all too well. ...What the gently caress, Jonas.  But yeah, that's two wins in one update! We've already almost doubled our win total!  Also we really lucked out in picking Kukrushka, as she both spotted Jonas in a lie and was the Guardian Angel!  Unsurprisingly Comet sucks at lying. Oh well. That's enough for now. Until next time! And if you want, if you want to redistribute our stats post your suggested spread here. That option is now available to us. And if there's any weird game set-ups you want to see, let me know and I'll set them up! Mega64 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 22:17
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I want to see Chipie's Gnosia portrait, so let's spam Gnosia-heavy games until he ends up on our side
Leraika fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 22:38
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Got to love the horrible liars claiming roles. Although, to be fair, confirmed engineers/doctors are terrifying, especially when backed by a GA. Speaking of which. Guardian Angel games, let's go. Guardian Angel has somehow wormed its way to becoming my favorite role in the game. I suck at handling the attention that Engineer/Doctors give you, and somehow my deduction skills just tank when I get Guard Duty. Also the whole Definite Enemy thing is something I wish the game explained why when another character does it. I've had games where half the game got confirmed and I've had no idea why despite checking reports, and vice very had the option to declare people as Definite Human/Enemy despite having no idea who to use it on.
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May 25, 2021 22:53
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Mega64 posted:This way Cassidy doesn't get exposed as a liar, which is still very possible with her low Performance (though that's now the stat I'm focusing on increasing). Wrong pronoun.
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May 25, 2021 22:55
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I appreciate you puzzling out the Definite Enemy chain of logic. There's a lot of times where I was playing and someone would start throwing out Definite X left and right for no apparent reason, and I don't have the patience to sit down for 20 minute to puzzle these things out. Also, do some guard duty games. I'm curious to see what optimal play is there, since in my experience it mostly just paints you as a juicy target for the gnosia.
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May 25, 2021 22:59
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Dang Guard Duty Raqio rules.
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May 25, 2021 23:00
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there's a 'him' for Raqio on Day 5 of the first loop this update somewhere too Raqio will win the game for humans eventually, should they ever actually make it to the end. Yuriko is technically faster and more dangerous because she can actually spot lies, but Raqio's logic is basically a guarantee. Haifisch posted:Also, do some guard duty games. I'm curious to see what optimal play is there, since in my experience it mostly just paints you as a juicy target for the gnosia. If your ally has lovely stealth you claim with them and hope the GA does their job, if they have high stealth when they claim GD you let them hang on the vine and get eliminated lol Rockstar Massacre fucked around with this message at 23:05 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 23:01
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ultrafilter posted:Wrong pronoun. Fixed! Thanks! Rockstar Massacre posted:there's a 'him' for Raqio on Day 5 of the first loop this update somewhere too Found a "he" at least, fixed that! Thanks! Haifisch posted:I appreciate you puzzling out the Definite Enemy chain of logic. There's a lot of times where I was playing and someone would start throwing out Definite X left and right for no apparent reason, and I don't have the patience to sit down for 20 minute to puzzle these things out. I love logic-oriented puzzles in general, so it's fun for me to try to figure it out. It's not the first time I've spent 15-something minutes going through a game log trying to figure out why someone is logically human/an enemy!
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May 25, 2021 23:12
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You also stated Setsu might be a bug moments after they were scanned by the true engineer. I like logic puzzles but I also tend to be lazy about it so when other characters would call definite X I just went with it. On the other hand as soon as I got the skills and they would pop up in my menu I had to sus out who I was supposed to aim them at. It was actually easier than expected once the game pointed out the option was there.
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May 25, 2021 23:51
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