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thetoughestbean posted:Question about Zadnor’s story for you folks: What choice did you make re: Bajsaljen’s question, and what happened when Misija asked you to kill her? I said that Gabranth and Menenius were ultimately to blame, and when I chose to mercy kill Misija, Bajsaljen did it instead. He looked her right in the eyes and slit her throat
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May 28, 2021 18:17
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Does it affect the type of nation founded?
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May 28, 2021 18:28
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Hogama posted:If you choose to have her executed, and then choose to mercy kill her, Bajsaljen stops you because she's already dead before you can do anything with the dagger. Seems the only real difference you can get is whether Bajsaljen slits her throat or if she just expires from her injuries. Dang, I was hoping you would be able to kill her yourself. That said, Bajsaljen killing her himself felt like the proper way to end her storyline
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May 28, 2021 18:30
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thetoughestbean posted:Question about Zadnor’s story for you folks: What choice did you make re: Bajsaljen’s question, and what happened when Misija asked you to kill her? I said that Gabranth and Menenius were ultimately to blame, and when I chose to mercy kill Misija, Bajsaljen did it instead. He looked her right in the eyes and slit her throat. For me, I chose to execute her, went to mercy kill her, and got the 'she succumbed to her wounds before I could' angle. Something else I'm curious about from people: when talking about what form Bozja's government would take, is the bosscat taking notes from the IVth Legion always there, or was it only because of my choices? That felt like a line odd enough that it might be quietly influenced.
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May 28, 2021 18:47
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Cleretic posted:Something else I'm curious about from people: when talking about what form Bozja's government would take, is the bosscat taking notes from the IVth Legion always there, or was it only because of my choices? That felt like a line odd enough that it might be quietly influenced. I didn't choose to execute her, and this line was there in my ending as well.
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May 28, 2021 18:56
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derra posted:Does it affect the type of nation founded? This was what I checked immediately in the script, and there's no different lines for that scene.
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May 28, 2021 19:04
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I really liked all the field notes because it made the imperials seem like actual people, which I feel like was never something communicated well in the MSQ, besides maybe the populares (rip)
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May 28, 2021 19:33
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Badger of Basra posted:I really liked all the field notes because it made the imperials seem like actual people, which I feel like was never something communicated well in the MSQ, besides maybe the populares (rip) Instead of simply villains the Bozjan legion are people who have directly benefited from an egalitarian reform of their society that gave them advantage and opportunity they never would have gotten in the much more stratified and aristocratic social structure the empire replaced, and because of it are fiercely loyal to the new regime and as they continually lose ground are getting more and more desperate to stop what in their eyes are a blueblooded nobility intent on overthrowing it all and replacing it with the old way. In another story they're the heroes, but it's not that story.
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May 28, 2021 19:40
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Sharkopath posted:Instead of simply villains the Bozjan legion are people who have directly benefited from an egalitarian reform of their society that gave them advantage and opportunity they never would have gotten in the much more stratified and aristocratic social structure the empire replaced, and because of it are fiercely loyal to the new regime and as they continually lose ground are getting more and more desperate to stop what in their eyes are a blueblooded nobility intent on overthrowing it all and replacing it with the old way. Well there’s also one opportunistic Seeq that will not stop trying to recruit you
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May 28, 2021 19:42
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thetoughestbean posted:Well there’s also one opportunistic Seeq that will not stop trying to recruit you And mad scientists happy to do all the experimenting they want.
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May 28, 2021 19:43
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thetoughestbean posted:Well there’s also one opportunistic Seeq that will not stop trying to recruit you Dude's got a company to feed and he's gonna get paid one way another.
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May 28, 2021 19:43
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The ninja storyline tie in also discusses how Noah's army has really become a band of outcasts so to speak, accepting refugees from other corners who could find no safe harbor anywhere else, and its for that reason they fight for the legion.
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May 28, 2021 19:45
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Sharkopath posted:Instead of simply villains the Bozjan legion are people who have directly benefited from an egalitarian reform of their society that gave them advantage and opportunity they never would have gotten in the much more stratified and aristocratic social structure the empire replaced, and because of it are fiercely loyal to the new regime and as they continually lose ground are getting more and more desperate to stop what in their eyes are a blueblooded nobility intent on overthrowing it all and replacing it with the old way. It's a really cool story, much more nuanced than most games would have done with the situation.
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May 28, 2021 19:51
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It is, although I also kind of find it a bit...tonally weird, given it's basically perfect Garlean propaganda? "We replaced a decadent and superstitious elite of corrupt merchants and indifferent nobility with an egalitarian reign by and for the Real People!" is, well...loaded coming from an authoritarian imperial state. On the other hand, that was basically Napoleon's whole pitch, so it's not wholly inaccurate, and Gabranth is definitely a plausible example of a successor state warlord. Garlemald was basically designed to shatter Alexander-style. The whole "they would totally be the heroes!" thing is a little undercut by just how many war crimes the 4th Legion commits, though. What Ninja tie-in, though? I'm still only partly through Zadnor. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 19:55
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Jetrauben posted:What Ninja tie-in, though? I'm still only partly through Zadnor. Oboro and Tsubame are fighting for the Resistance, in part because some villainous Onmyojis from Yanxia teamed up with the IVth Legion
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May 28, 2021 20:03
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thetoughestbean posted:Oboro and Tsubame are fighting for the Resistance, in part because some villainous Onmyojis from Yanxia teamed up with the IVth Legion I saw that (and really liked it! expand on geopolitical movements! get class trainers involved! SHOOT IT INTO MY VEINS!) but I was wondering when they actually start talking or if they're just FATE folks.
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May 28, 2021 20:04
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You can find them early on, though. The collection skirmish in the first zone has them as helper NPCs.
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May 28, 2021 20:04
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Jetrauben posted:What Ninja tie-in, though? I'm still only partly through Zadnor. keep an eye out for our beautiful dim boy, Oboro, and definitely read his notes
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May 28, 2021 20:05
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Jetrauben posted:It is, although I also kind of find it a bit...tonally weird, given it's basically perfect Garlean propaganda? Kind of hidden in the notes but Gabranth's style was never very popular in Garlemald and his Legion was the only one that had more natural citizens than Garlean ones, and with more of them in important roles. I don't think they hit it and the fact Sicinius is just there at the end despite multiple, multiple crimes against nature but they tried to show he was different. As opposed to Gaius who was pure Garlean ideology, Gabranth actually had his own, different way of doing things.
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May 28, 2021 20:05
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Jetrauben posted:I saw that (and really liked it! expand on geopolitical movements! get class trainers involved! SHOOT IT INTO MY VEINS!) but I was wondering when they actually start talking or if they're just FATE folks. They have field notes and Oboro shows up in a cutscene but he doesn’t have any lines. Someone should go check if he has any new lines in Limsa
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May 28, 2021 20:06
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Jetrauben posted:I saw that (and really liked it! expand on geopolitical movements! get class trainers involved! SHOOT IT INTO MY VEINS!) but I was wondering when they actually start talking or if they're just FATE folks. Lots of fates have extensive dialogue before, during, and after the fate actually pops where people discuss things, and that then chain into later fates that also have lengthy dialogues. You need to be in the area beforehand to see it though. They put a lot of story into the zone itself, its neat.
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May 28, 2021 20:07
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Jetrauben posted:I saw that (and really liked it! expand on geopolitical movements! get class trainers involved! SHOOT IT INTO MY VEINS!) but I was wondering when they actually start talking or if they're just FATE folks.
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May 28, 2021 20:07
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Jetrauben posted:The whole "they would totally be the heroes!" thing is a little undercut by just how many war crimes the 4th Legion commits, though. What war crimes did the 4th Legion commit? Misija did the tempering and warping the blades into the trinity monsters thing on her own (Lyon in a cutscene despises what Misija did which strongly implies that what she did was unsanctioned by Menenius). The only evilish thing I remember happening under Gabranth/Menenius' orders is Sicinius using Dabog as a test subject for the various magitek vehicles.
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May 28, 2021 20:09
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Gnossiennes posted:keep an eye out for our beautiful dim boy, Oboro, and definitely read his notes
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May 28, 2021 20:12
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Moofia Boss Val posted:What war crimes did the 4th Legion commit? Misija did the tempering and warping the blades into the trinity monsters thing on her own (Lyon in a cutscene despises what Misija did which strongly implies that what she did was unsanctioned by Menenius). The only evilish thing I remember happening under Gabranth/Menenius' orders is Sicinius using Dabog as a test subject for the various magitek vehicles. involuntary surgery and mind control is pretty loving evil
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May 28, 2021 20:13
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Moofia Boss Val posted:What war crimes did the 4th Legion commit? Misija did the tempering and warping the blades into the trinity monsters thing on her own (Lyon in a cutscene despises what Misija did which strongly implies that what she did was unsanctioned by Menenius). The only evilish thing I remember happening under Gabranth/Menenius' orders is Sicinius using Dabog as a test subject for the various magitek vehicles. Even what Misija did is, in her own view, an agent infiltrating and neutralizing the powerful combatants of whats about to become a reactionary counter-revolution made of her own historical oppressors. That's what I mean by they are the heroes in their own story, they dont see things from the same perspective as you do and their life experience with the bozjan system was vastly different from the resistance members. There's even a sad little note where one of the blades blames themselves for misija's betrayal because despite not being party to her abuse while in her cover, they feel they didn't do enough to stop it themselves when they saw it happening and maybe if they had she might not have turned back to the empire.
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May 28, 2021 20:13
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Moofia Boss Val posted:What war crimes did the 4th Legion commit? Misija did the tempering and warping the blades into the trinity monsters thing on her own (Lyon in a cutscene despises what Misija did which strongly implies that what she did was unsanctioned by Menenius). The only evilish thing I remember happening under Gabranth/Menenius' orders is Sicinius using Dabog as a test subject for the various magitek vehicles. Attempted mass execution of prisoners when the Castrum falls in CLL, Dabog's everything, Misija's entire operation... Mind, I'm not saying that Misija couldn't justify it to herself - we commit the exact same sort of war crime, although for considerably shorter duration. But Misija is fully aware Balsajien is sincere, she just believes (probably due to how lovely the Blades treat her) that his and the other reformists' efforts are doomed to failure. It's a different level of deliberate malice to spend long time periods associating with people and then horribly violate them than just to dress up in stolen uniforms for a short period. Although that said, I think they imply the tempered Blades tried themselves on their own corrupted initiative to do the fusion dance somehow? Lyon hates what Misija does because Lyon's basically a brute who loves a good fight, I don't think his objections are moral so much as him just getting off on war and resenting subterfuge as getting in the way of his blood knight kicks. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 20:14
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was Gabranth the one who bombed Dalmasca into rubble when they rebelled, or did that happen before he got there?
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May 28, 2021 20:15
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Gabranth’s field notes explicitly calls the IVth Legion war criminals
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May 28, 2021 20:19
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Bojza is just War Crime Central in general. Horrifically unethical war machine experimentation, deliberately targeting medics (on our part, even!), attempted mass executions, etc. It's not a nice place!
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May 28, 2021 20:21
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Jetrauben posted:Attempted mass execution of prisoners when the Castrum falls in CLL, Dabog's everything, Misija's entire operation... The finale of the story makes it a bit explicit that despite being in a leadership position Balsajien is not in total control of the resistance as a whole, theres multiple factions of varying ideologies including a nobility desperate to reclaim their old prestige and comfort and misija's sacrifice is something that directly inspires him to ensure he locks them out of power and recreates bozja as a more egalitarian society. It's a fair doubt to believe that even if you trust the leader has his best intentions he might not have the ability to really enact that will in the middle of such a multilayered alliance. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 20:21
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The Diablo Armament may not be a war crime but it’s definitely a crime against God and nature
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May 28, 2021 20:22
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thetoughestbean posted:The Diablo Armament may not be a war crime but it’s definitely a crime against God and nature One day they'll stop trying to control the horrible allagan monstrosities made with the souls of demons, but not today.
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May 28, 2021 20:24
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Sharkopath posted:The finale of the story makes it a bit explicit that despite being in a leadership position Balsajien is not in total control of the resistance as a whole, theres multiple factions of varying ideologies including a nobility desperate to reclaim their old prestige and comfort and misija's sacrifice is something that directly inspires him to ensure he locks them out of power and recreates bozja as a more egalitarian society. It's a fair doubt to believe even if you trust the leader has his best intentions he has the ability to actual enact that will in the middle of such a multilayered alliance. That's totally fair. I think Bozja relies a lot on the field records, which is a nice touch - I actually really like the mechanic and want them to expand it to the main questline, I'd love a written set of character histories you collect through the MSQ and class quests - but it does mean that a fair chunk of the storyline ends up kind of a take-our-word-for-it. Do we know how many of the Blades were former nobles? I got the distinct impression a good number of them were.
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May 28, 2021 20:25
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Sharkopath posted:One day they'll stop trying to control the horrible allagan monstrosities made with the souls of demons, but not today.
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May 28, 2021 20:25
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Jetrauben posted:deliberately targeting medics (on our part, even!), I feel like if a medic is dropping energy blasts on the field they might be combatants
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May 28, 2021 20:28
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Sharkopath posted:One day they'll stop trying to control the horrible allagan monstrosities made with the souls of demons, but not today. Menenius: I assume you read about Gaius van Baelsar and the Ultima Weapon? That was a disaster, let’s not do that. Let’s slam Diabolos into a horrible cyborg monstrosity instead
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May 28, 2021 20:28
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Jetrauben posted:Bojza is just War Crime Central in general. Horrifically unethical war machine experimentation, deliberately targeting medics (on our part, even!), attempted mass executions, etc. It's not a nice place! Medics aren't protected if "they are used to commit the acts harmful to the enemy." In Bozja "medics" are wandering around with better weaponry than some of the "combatants"!
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May 28, 2021 20:29
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hobbesmaster posted:Medics aren't protected if "they are used to commit the acts harmful to the enemy." The FATE does explicitly state "the targeting of chirugeons is normally frowned upon," and basically says it's just because they're too good at their jobs.
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May 28, 2021 20:30
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That whole situation does have some ethical permutations, doesn't it? But I suspect if we had front-line guys with medic heal rays they would be classified differently from hospitals behind the line.
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May 28, 2021 20:30
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